How much genetic impact did the Anglo Saxon invasion have on Britain compared to the Roman invasion?
>>1254943
>Roman invasion
Non existent genetic impact
>Anglo-Saxon invasion
It was more of a mass-migration so it had notable genetic impact.
>>1254971
This.
Roman influence came and left with the Romans. To my knowledge, they can be hardly identified, if at all, in the modern Englishman's genes. When the Normans came (a bastard mix of Danes, Gallo-Romans, and vastly Franks [both Gallic and Germanic]), Latin linguistic influence appeared in English since the language of French was so heavily influenced by the Romans.
I read that roughly 30% of English DNA is from Germany, and 11% or so is from Denmark. Tbqh since the Jutes were from today's Denmark, as were the Angles in part, that 11% is probably not from the Viking Age but from the Anglo-Saxon era.
Hengist and Horsa did nothing wrong
WE WUZ GERMANS
MOSLEY
>>1254943
Romans had pretty much no genetic impact at all. No Italians if that's what you mean.
Anglo-Saxons left quite a lot in the south-east. A lot migrated to Britain since conditions on the north-west coast of Germany in the 5th century were becoming really bad and entire settlements were being drowned under the waves.
how different would the native britons have been from germanic people anyway?
Angles and Saxons committed genocide to the native population
>>1257613
No, modern Englishmen still carry a good part of their genes. They became the lower classes (visible still today if you ask me).
>>1257827
id have to agree actually, the majority of the working classes and underclass have a more celtic appearance while the middle classes are much more germanic looking
>>1255183
The other 59% of the average englishman's DNA is of Arabic background.
>>1257831
That is actually why Britain is and has been a very class-divided society. People of Norman descent still make up much of the upper class.
>>1255251
>A lot migrated to Britain since conditions on the north-west coast of Germany in the 5th century were becoming really bad and entire settlements were being drowned under the waves.
True, that is where the name Flanders (toponym) comes from, between the 3rd and 11th century the land was constantly flooded by the sea, twice a day in some period.
The coastal city of Ostend got its name from being literally the eastern end of in those days an island called Testerep (meaning "you are on it") in front of the Belgian coast, the western end is kept in our toponymy as the village of Westende.
The original Belgic coastal population moved south to drier land (current southern West-Flanders and French Flanders), the flooded land got repopulated by Frisians and Saxons (who named that land Flanders). Again our toponyms still refer to this.
>>1257871
My genetics are mostly foreign despite being British with a British family, people mistake me for French or Italian. Tracing my family tree i come from the upper classes who somehow very quickly fell to being working class at the turn of the 19th century.
>>1255183
Neither Jutes nor Angles are counted into the 11% Danish DNA. Both are considered German.
>>1257939
gambled their money away, or another common cause of noble ruin was a romantic disdain for the new era of industrialisation, and being unwilling to invest in the developing industry.
Anyway, if you're from a Norman family, as someone here earlier already said, they were a mixed bag (almost half of William the Conqueror's army consisted of Flemish mercenaries btw), and upper class only marries other upper class, so it is likely that they intermarried perhaps with a continental family of Romance descent? Are you in possession of your family tree?
>>1257939
BTW, if you are descended in a direct male line from a titled noble family, but have for some reason lost the title, if you become a Belgian citizen and pay a fee of about 1000 euros for peer-review of your family tree and noble claims, you can reclaim your family's title. Belgium is the only country where this is still possible.
>>1258065
If so you'll even receive your title back from our king personally (issueing of noble titles happens each year on our national holiday).
Because we still respect the old traditions of noble privilege heritage in the form of titles and the right to add an epitheton to your last name, some Polish and Russian nobles were able to reclaim their titles lost after the advance of communism.
>>1257831
>while the middle classes are much more germanic looking
This is an odd, welsh nationalism tier sounding question, but would welsh genetics be closer?
Welsh are supposedly closer to pre saxon british, does this include roman-british (which still existed for a fair time)?
>>1258137
Naturally the Welsh are the straight descendants of the ancient Britons (which included the "Romano-Britons", but remember they were likely the upper classes from that era, so a small group, which actually intermarried with Romans. Romano-Britons =/= Romanized Britons)
(sidenote: really if this interests you you should take a look at the late iron age and early medieval history of Belgium, where the Romanisation was much more pronounced, still visible today even. The Belgae had several important settlements on the British Isles, which toponomy for one reveals abundantly)
>>1258177
>British Isles
>>1258133
That picture is of a working class person though
>>1254971
>>1255183
>>1255251
or you're considering only modern genetics because the saxons were later. It very well may be that descendants of Romans (Italian or otherwise) either stood their ground in Britain during the Saxon invasion, or fled. Therefore very few living today have their bloodlines.
You can't just look at modern samples and say "these people or these people in their day had x amount of genetic influence". Use your heads.
>>1258403
You'd have to dna sample every skeleton bone in the ground on the island, south of Scotland to know that truth. I don't think that's what they were asking, but you're not wrong overall.
>>1258417
They need to unfuck their questions, then. Something like, "of today's population, how prevalent is the DNA of saxon descent versus roman descent". The funniest thing, for all the bullshit celtic talk, very few in official testing showed any link to "celtic".
>>1258430
What is roman descent? Does Gaul count? Something like 40% is shared among what's considered "from Gaul". To tell the truth, that "might" be the same as celtic. /shrug.
>>1258442
That is pretty much the same as Celtic, yes.
Ancient Britons were related to Gauls, and spoke a similar language.
>>1258403
The Romans left Britain before the Saxon invasion, the Celtic Britons were left unprotected against attacks by their raging brothers the Picts in the north, so they paid some Saxons to protect them against that. These later spread the message in Germany that the Romans were gone and the Britons were (literal quote) "useless."
And a decent population sample gives a good image of the general population's ancestry. Remember statistic techniques are used to make it representable.
If you were talking about local variation, maybe, but enough samples have been analysed to give a pretty good idea of the ancestry of modern England.
>>1255223
But even Hitler called us Germanic brothers
>>1254943
>Celtic
Stop with such meme, Celtics were not a genetic group. In the case of Britain, in genetic terms, the ancient population came from northern Spain when the weather became tolerable
>>1259547
That population is pre-Celtic f@m, you're a bit mixed up. Celts originated in Southern Germany/Austria/Switzerland.
>>1259440
King arthur is probably a romano-britain that fought saxons
>>1259838
>King arthur is probably a romano-britain that fought saxons
No, almost definitely. He may not have been called Arthur and he may not have been a king, but he was almost certaintly a warlord of some kind. There is sound archaeological evidence backed up with primary sources (scant as they are in the period) for a Briton counter-offensive in the late-5th century which fucked the Saxons hard, causing them to spend decades clinging precariously to the east coast until a resurgence in the mid 6th century. Sussex for example was completely destroyed as a kingdom after the battle of Badon despite its king Aelle being a so-called "Bretwalda".
King Arthur didn't exist
>>1260536
This.
>>1260955
How do you know?
>>1258133
this person looks germanic.
