For the average person, all our problems date to WWII; for the more informed to WWI; for the genuine historian, to the French revolution.
To the enlightement.
>>1129265
Except it's the Thirty Years' War where the problems really start.
Apply yourself.
>>1129271
>enlightement is bad
Why is this and why is it so popular to state on /his/?
>>1129274
Because it's true.
the mongols caused a lot of problems tbqh
>>1129272
>implying
>implying Plato isn't directly responsible for all of modern society's problems
>>1129274
because /his/ IS /pol/ with dates and is full of neoreactionary revisionists
>>1129280
Why?
They date back to the Hundred Years War and the Black Plague which destroyed Gothic Europe.
Everything was going amazing until then, then it all got fucked up and split apart and we ended up with the Renaissance with its religious wars, witch hunts, and 300 years of scientific stagnation.
>>1129291
I smell a filthy 8gagger. Nobody else cares about neoreaction.
>>1129265
Why not even further? Spanish Succession? 30 years? Cambrai? Arab conquests? Punic wars? The first tribal squabbles?
>>1129286
>implying
>>1129300
This is the correct answer.
The West until 1350 was literally perfect.
>>1129303
it's all over this board so I do care
>dude the dark ages didn't happen in any way whatsoever we wuz kangs everyone sang kumbayah and went to space until the fucking enlightement took away our special powers and minds also GoT is unrealistic because people die in it and nobody died in the middle ages until Robespierre personally invented murder and rape
>>1129315
That's just reaction, not neoreaction. Neoreaction are those smelly STEM autists who think programmers should be nobility.
>>1129315
Are you claiming Robespierre did not personally invent murder and rape?
>>1129315
Having fun with your straw man?
Literally the only thing anyone ever said is that qualifying the entire Middle Ages as a "dark age" is retarded.
>>1129315
>we went to space
>implying reactionaries like scientific progress
>>1129265
>For the average person, all our problems date to WWII
Really? Which problems stemming from WWII do we still have?
>>1129300
If this hadn't happened, we would have had something like Enlightenment in the 15th century already, except without all the edgy fedora shit and faggotry.
We'd literally be colonising the galaxy by now.
>>1129362
>whigshit on my /his/
>>1129360
Russians still got the cult of personality they received in the great patriotic war.
>>1129367
That means the opposite of what you think it means.
>>1129368
They received the cult of personality during Ivan Grozny's rule, anon.
>>1129371
>le inigo montoya face
Consider sudoku
>>1129372
Stalin made it worse.
A lot of leaders made it worse, but Stalin used modern propaganda for it.
>>1129375
What?
Whig history consists in thinking that everything always just goes the way of progress. That's the exact opposite of what I said, since in reality the Renaissance was a huge step backward for Western civilisation, which got permanently fucked up in the process.
Try to write in complete sentences next time.
>>1129265
All our problems stem from sedentarisation.
Humans are biologically built to live a pastoral life.
Back to hunting/gathering or pastoralism!
>>1129392
We primates are biologically built to live in trees.
>>1129379
>Stalin made it worse.
Hardly. The cult of autocracy was firmly entrenched in monarchist Russian society, this is why they considered the bolshevik regicide so heinous.
the problems really start when the universe began
if that hadnt happened then none if the other stuff would have happened
prove me wrong
oh wait you cant: and you just got bee tee eff oh
>>1129405
Truth. What's good uncle Vanya?
>>1129274
Because
>atheism
>liberalism
>humanism
>secularism
>"""""reason""""
>deism
>occult activity
Can all be traced back to the enlightenment.
>"And ye shall be as gods!"
Satan effectively took over the west in the 18th century.
>>1129405
>humans
>built to live in trees
>>1129405
>Great apes
>Built to live in trees
>>1129405
0/10 poor bait
>>1129405
Are you from the Philippines?
>>1129405
>le evolution maymay
Nobody believes in darwinism anymore.
Fuck off.
>>1129265
Naw, the real problems start with monotheism.
>>1129461
>>believes in darwinism
This comment is just so very stupid that I have no idea how to even respond.
>>1129483
By not responding to bait?
>>1129290
No, that would be Zoroaster.
His paradigm of dividing the world into good and evil, with a final confrontation between the two and a final victory for good is the central core of the Abrahamic religions, and the utopian projects of the Enlightenment right up to now, including communism, fascism and global free market democracy
>>1129529
This is the exact kind of person OP was mocking. I'm not sure what attracts you circus freaks to this board but you might want to consider the fact you don't sound half as smart as you think you do.
>>1129274
You meant to say industrialization.
>>1129644
Why hate on industrialization?
After the rise of agriculture and before that the majority of people lived poor lives with terrible illnesses and famines frequently occurring due to their lifestyle.
>>1129265
All of our problems date from Luther
>>1129443
Hello Christfag, would you prefer that we all continued to work the fields and were largely illiterate? I hope you don't like this Laosian fingerpainting board too much - wouldn't exist without the Enlightenment after all
>>1129662
Luther dated from the corruption that was frequent through the Catholic Church at the time.
>>1129665
Illiteracy of the masses is certainly not a bad thing.
All the problems go back to the ooga booga and ugg raid in 500,000 BCE
>>1129265
>not to the spread of the Abrahamic religions
>>1129443
also
>industrialization
>modern medicine
>the internet
>literacy
>dat boi
>>1129656
What do you think was the driving force behind so much social change? Take a look at other cultures undergoing industrialization and you see the same shit.
Industrialization breaks the old social relations that kept the beloved ideals spoken of ITT in tact. Take the family unit, traditionally this was an economic unit where contribution from each part cemented the bonds that we cherish. Every member played a role. But with the institutions of a wage system these contributions were destroyed or eliminated: women and children no longer played the role of producing clothing for example, and men were less involved in the production of food. This same dissolution of social bonds occurred at the community scale, where ties that were cemented by certain specialists in communities were taken over by larger firms that made no social relation possible.
Two centuries of industrialization saw the rise of the Liberal state, the destruction of the extended family, and eventually the massification of culture. You miss a society that values careful aesthetics, family, and traditional social relations? There's one clear culprit.
>>1129630
that doesn't "sound smart", it's highschool-tier common knowledge
>>1129656
Also, it should be noted that the early phases of industrialization didn't even bring the benefits you mentioned. Peasants lived far worse lives in worse conditions, were frequently put out of work with no chance of finding another job, and many were left on the streets. You can thank the rise of the welfare state to the early institution of laws by England to combat this pauperization and prevent revolt.
>not the Hyper War
>>1129665
>implying we all wouldn't be better off if 4chan didn't exist.
>>1129737
Yes, and everything Good that came out of those laws was because of the wealth industrialization produced. Without anything of that it would not have mattered the laws as people would still have to live with the risk of famines or plagues coming every year.
>>1129725
>any of that
>good
>>1129759
You're joking, right? You do know famine struck England very hard multiple times after industrializing? As it does for most early industrial countries.
I will grant that centuries after the process began, wealth has eliminated starvation as a threat to the most industrialized countries. But other social problems have taken prominence. It's easy for anon to sneer and claim that all the wealth and plastic trinkets are worth more than some stupid ideals like family or community, but people are social. The trade off has been psychologically damaging. We now live in a society which spends absurd amounts of money trying to fix these psychological issues with modern medicine.
The only thing clear to me is that human society is not human at all, it is and has always been Technological Society.
t. Jacques Ellul
>>1129759
Perhaps you have not noticed but fine and plagues still exist we are just insulated from them since we are part of the global elite.
>Industrialization expanded the number of global elite though!
and it also expanded the number of global plebs, so it all balances out. There are more children starving in Africa today than at any prior point in history thanks to industrialization.
>>1129763
Nice meme
>>1129835
I'm sorry that you have been hoodwinked by the system anon. Hopefully you will wake up someday and realize that all the things listed have only served to increase the amount of suffering in the world.
Especially dat boi.
>>1129265
It went wrong with Homer desu.
>>1129675
Kill yourself you fucking idiot
GOD DAMMIT EVE
I TOLD YOU NOT TO PICK THAT GOD DAMN FRUIT!
>>1129443
Anti-humanist plz go
>>1129850
I don't see you deciding to go live with the amish or some shit dude.
>>1129310
The Pharisees didn't go far enough
>>1129274
it's just /pol/ and neoreacrionaries leaking their uneducated meme opinions.
Fascism and Nazism owe EVERYTHING to the Enlightenment tradition.
>>1129341
They hate any sort of improvement because they are degenerates.
>>1129850
Stop shitposting on the internet if it's so bad then you hypocritical fag.
If you had one once of balls, and you are a christian as you say, then you wouldn't be on 4chan.
This is true for all christcucks who post in here.
>>1129920
>>1129920
I think its pretty easy to determine the REAL point where human history took the big plunge.
>>1129921
>more /pol/ obsession
You're just as bad as them desu
>>1129794
based
>>1129939
The only people that are as bad as stormfag /pol/ are the people who think everyone they disagree with is stormfag /pol/
I say it started in the French-Indian war
>America created
>French revolution
>Prussia becomes a great power
>Austria goes into decline
>Hungary becomes nationalistic
>Britain becomes the sole Euro power in India cementing themselves as the eventual conqueror
perhaps we can go deeper and say "marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella" or "when Osman was born" but I'm an American so I choose this one.
>>1129794
>But other social problems have taken prominence. It's easy for anon to sneer and claim that all the wealth and plastic trinkets are worth more than some stupid ideals like family or community
Nobody does that, and most people are perfectly capable of finding companionship and community. Loneliness is an issue among old people and suburbanites, but that is more to do with the nature of the suburbs. Loneliness aside, industrialised countries usually score better for life satisfaction, happiness and freedom. Suicide rates appear to have no correlation with industrialisation. Islamic countries have low suicide rates but I suspect this is due to a taboo around suicide.
>The trade off has been psychologically damaging.
I'd need to see some evidence for that. The fact that we spend money fixing it is because we have money to spend fixing it.
>>1130085
>most people are perfectly capable of finding companionship and community.
I'll add that people on this website are the obvious exception to this, which is why I think that these ideas are so common here. It's a bit of a meme but I genuinely believe /pol/ and /r9k/'s beliefs are coloured by their bitterness around modern society. Those issues aren't going to be felt as strongly by normies, and lets not forget that normies are the norm.
>>1129414
>logical extremes
Diogenes is that you?
>>1129921
That was the point of tne picture you cyclopean retard. Nazism and fascism is modernism, reaction is anti modern.
>>1129794
The famines that occurred when industrialization had been going some time really was as bad and frequent as those before it?
And you should add other positive things we have gotten, like less wars with smaller chance to die in those when they actually occur or a much, much smaller occurrence in plagues, many of them even having going extinct.
>>1130182
>reaction is anti modern
It very much isn't. It divides the world up into a glorious past, a fallen present and a return to the glorious past in which the evils of now are forever banished. It's very much a product of modernity. Without modernity, it would never have existed in the first place
>>1130205
Yes in the same sense an antidote wouldn't exist without poison.
>>1130002
Hot damn that's a classic. I like you.
>>1130218
Again, this dichotomy is found in virtually every modern ideology. They all consider their program to be the antidote to a poison, from the hyper religious to the irreligious, from the far left to the far right
>>1130229
This dichotomy hardly originated in modernism.
>>1129265
Literally bullshit, ask anyone with historical knowledge, all problems of modern humanity, as well as its advancements, are linked directly to the spread of agriculture.
>>1130304
Uhh, no, all problems with humanity can be linked to the invention of language. Fucking Liberals.
