Can we talk about Catholic saints?
>>27939
>This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc.
>This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion
>religion
Aroused nuns thread
>>1123068
that's the one where the angel makes her orgasm to death right?
>>1123080
ohhhhh stop it
My favorite saint is Francis de Sales, patron of writers and journalists. I got confirmed in his name when I was in middle school, since even back then I wanted to be a writer.
I have read his "Introduction to the Devout Life." It's really great and I highly encourage anyone just examining Christianity to check it out.
Any thoughts on Lourdes?
>>1123068
>Aroused
Not really.
It's interesting to me how some Saints seem to have almost superhero like status from having legends mixed together. They end up doing things that you don't expect.
Reading on Saint Martha lately has made that stick out to me. Like how the hell did it turn out that the sister of Lazarus, who knew Jesus, somehow traveled to Provence to tame a big turtle dragon?
we wuz saints et stercore
>>1123101
>superhero
pic related
>>1123101
Pious tradition is amazing, Anon.
And since Tradition has the same weight as Scripture for Catholics, we're actually supposed to believe it all--or at least, we're supposed to believe it's true in some sense or another.
>>1123103
Are there any black Catholics in burgerland?
Daily reminder that Christ's Church was dead for over a thousand years until THIS based man raised it from the tomb
>>1123120
pic related
>>1123112
St. George is literally a superhero
>>1123116
maybe a few in Louisiana, donĀ“t really know
that saint was peruvian
>>1123121
John Paul II got an official Marvel comic. From Marvel.
i fap to the theotokos 2bh.
i hope one day she'll intercede on my behalf and ask the big guy to forgive me for such a grave sin. though i do hope she's kind of embarrassed when she asks, that'd be pretty hot.
>>1123136
NO
>>1123136
Sacrilege is not edgy fun. It's heinous.
>>1123152
who said anything about edgy?
i've always had a strong connection to the blessed mother (my italian grandma had a shrine of her statues and paintings in her house, so she stuck with me from very young age), and over time it turned severely sexual.
>>1123163
>severely sexual
lad...
>>1123094
aliens
>>1123316
What about nun porn?
>>1123056
Any thoughts on Saint Joseph of Cupertino?
He was said to levitate often, this is something I have a hard time grasping. Especially since the Saint was known as intellectually deficient in a certain respect.
>>1123319
Right, like I said, a grave and evil sin.
>>1123327
>Right
?
>>1123316
Is there a specific rule against beating it to Mary specifically, or is it just part of the general nofap thing?
>>1123320
>And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."
>>1123337
better to fap to Mary than being gay and fap to St Sebastian
t. Opus Dei member
![saint-catherine-head[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9qpFdoS.jpg "saint-catherine-head[1].jpg")
>>1123056
Catherine of Siena was an anorexic who starved herself to get out of a marriage and join a convent so that she could take a vow of fasting and live out the rest of her days eating nothing but communion wafers and lapping the pus out of injured peoples' wounds until she died of complications from anorexia at age 30.
God loved her so much he decided her corpse's head should rot slower than everyone else's.
>>1123337
General no fap.
But stroking it to Mary is particularly evil as she is the Holy Virgin Mother of our LORD.
>>1123348
Or just not fapping at all.
Is it really that difficult?
>>1123358
>particularly evil as she is the Holy Virgin Mother of our LORD.
That sounds like someone's reasoning, and not, say, scriptural or dogmatic.
What I mean is, are there any passages in the New Testament or suggestions by the Church Fathers that fapping to Mary in particular is expressly evil?
>>1123358
Well, she may have been a virgin when God raped her, but apparently Jesus had siblings, so there's no doubt Mary fucked Joseph repeatedly. Probably stuck her thumb up his ass like the dirty Jew whore she was.
>>1123056
Sure. None of them are anything more than human and it's all a lie.
Talk over.
>>1123316
do you think mary hates me? for what i've done and will continue to do into the foreseeable future?
>>1123368
>None of them are anything more than human and it's all a lie.
Well that's not true, several of the Saints were pagan deities before being euhemerised.
>>1123356
She is also a great mystic, a great theologian, and a Doctor of the Church.
>>1123368
It's not, though.
>>1123366
There isn't going to be a verse forbidding Christians for every single specific sin.
I would think that the LORD gave Man a fair amount of reasoning power to know the difference between what is good and what is heinous and wrong.
I hope that helps.
Reminder that the Bible says nothing about masturbation. Staring at women like a pig IRL and watching porn is wrong of course though but then again there's nothing wrong with looking at paintings or photos of clothed or unclothed women to appreciate their beauty without masturbating as long as you don't think stuff like ''I would fuck her hard in every hole'', you should just feel love, like when you look at images of the Blessed Virgin Mary though in this case it's a different kind of love of course.
If you can't focus/sleep and/or are losing your mind because of ''no fap'' there's literally nothing wrong with masturbating to let it out, it's uncomparable to adultery, as long as you don't do so by looking at women.
You'd literally never get married if God actually forbid you to appreciate female beauty. Read: http://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28/
>>1123367
Some have said that Jesus had siblings,
others say it should be interpreted as "cousins"
The Church believes in her perpetual virginity. So I don't know if that helps.
>>1123367
Leave this thread you filthy biblically illiterate proddy.
>>1123402
>The Church believes in her perpetual virginity.
Why? Are they retarded? The original meaning wasn't even "virgin", just "young woman".
>>1123398
I think the verse "do not let your seed fall to the ground" pretty much covers it. (Genesis 38:9)
Let alone you are essentially preventing life by killing your seed hence it can be considered a proto-form of birth control.
Btw, I can't believe I'm telling you degenerates this on a thread dedicated to the veneration of Saints.
>>1123388
>difference between what is good and what is heinous and wrong.
Obviously, but that still doesn't explain why fapping to Mary would carry heavier baggage of sin than fapping to any other woman.
>>1123405
>The original meaning wasn't even "virgin", just "young woman".
Source please.
>>1123418
Fine.
I don't know, I would assume because she is the Mother of God Himself like I mentioned earlier.
Just stop fapping.
>>1123405
I remember Constantine saying something about "virginity" being a matter of intent. As in, a girl willingly giving a blowjob would not be seen as a virgin, whereas a girl who was raped and lost her physical virginity would actually retain it in a holy sense. Or something.
So seeing as how Mary did not willingly behave sexually to Joseph (and also fathered God's son without a real choice in the matter), she's pribably still considered "virginal".
>>1123416
>"do not let your seed fall to the ground"
Why are you taking it out of context? It was a command to a specific person who was given a specific task.
>degenerates
Why?
>>1123429
>So seeing as how Mary did not willingly behave sexually to Joseph
The author of "Mathew" begs to differ.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+1:24-25
![constantine+forum-c4b[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BDRfA7U.jpg "constantine+forum-c4b[1].jpg")
Saint Constantine the Great commissioned statues of of himself styled like pagan gods despite having claimed to have become Christian. He killed a lot of people. He had his firstborn son poisoned and his first wife scalded to death and then tried to erase all mentions of them from the historical record. He really helped kickstart the practice of relic worship by having his hair and toenail clippings sent to various places around the empire for people to pay tribute to. He died believing that God the father was superior to and distinct from Jesus Christ, a heresy known as Arianism which is condemned by every extant branch of Christianity.
For these things, and others, he is worshiped as a saint by people who really should get some better role models.
>>1123433
WHO KNOWS KOINE GREEK ITT?
GET IN HERE, THIS HAS GOTTA BE A MISUNDERSTANDING
>>1123405
It says in the Gospels explicitly she knew no man. The meaning of the word, in both Greek and Hebrew, is of course broader than virgin, but it was understood mean virgin after the virgin birth. Prophecies in general, from the Orthodox and Catholics perspective (unlike the Jewish and Protestant perspective), are not really understood until after they transpire.
>>1123432
>It was a command to a specific person
Please remind me who this man was.
In any case, Jesus said whosoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28).
I challenge you to fap without looking at or thinking about sex. If not, it's essentially adultery.
>>1123416
>Let alone you are essentially preventing life by killing your seed hence it can be considered a proto-form of birth control.
There's nothing wrong with cumming down your wife's throat senpai. Stop making up unbiblical rules.
>>1123320
Thomas Aquinas was also capable of levitation, and had a vision of Christ stepping down from the cross and offering him whatever he desired. Aquinas is reported to have replied, "Only you, O Lord."
>>1123443
>Please remind me who this man was.
Onan and it applied to him only.
>In any case, Jesus said whosoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28).
Read my post:
>>1123398
>You'd literally never get married if God actually forbid you to appreciate female beauty. Read: http://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28/
>>1123440
>Prophecies in general, from the Orthodox and Catholics perspective (unlike the Jewish and Protestant perspective), are not really understood until after they transpire.
You realize this makes "genuine" prophecies impossible to distinguish from fraudulent ones?
>>1123435
i remember constantine fighting arianism tooth and nail.
is there something i'm missing here?
>>1123435
also he oversaw the enserfdom of Europe's peasantry and refused to be baptized until he was on his deathbed so that he could be cleansed of as many sins as possible in one go
:D
>>1123425
>Just stop fapping.
What, like in general?
>>1123455
Well, yeah, lots of people make prophecies. Some are completely false, some are completely true, some are only true in a sense. It IS hard to tell them all apart.
This is why in the ancient world prophecies were kind of useless on an immediate time-frame. You could only really trust the ones from 'reputable' sources like the Oracle at Delphi.
>>1123452
You have to be a Troll, and possibly a Jew.
Even if you are serious, masturbating to Mary out "of love" goes beyond evil and is something I would categorize as "sick".
Shame on me for responding to a troll, because you cannot possibly be this degenerate.
>>1123467
duh
>>1123456
He was baptized by an Arian on his deathbed ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_of_Nicomedia ) and his children practiced Arianism.
>>1123472
>It IS hard to tell them all apart.
No, it's actually impossible. Even if I prove a given prophecy didn't happen, you can just say "it hasn't happened.... yet!". Prophecies are so useless as evidence for anything that the simple fact that religious people rely on them is proof enough that there's nothing to their beliefs.
>>1123489
Well in a vacuum it's impossible, but when they're specifically made by prophets devoted to God, they gain more credibility, at least if you believe in God.
There's actually an interesting prophecy about the Catholic Church that's somewhat accurate, and may wind up being fully accurate depending on how the next few decades shake out. I'll see if I can find it.
>>1123484
how is that his fault and why should he suffer eternally for it?
that guy was probably some scheming secret arian who tried to condemn the righteous constantine on purpose.
>>1123501
>but when they're specifically made by prophets devoted to God, they gain more credibility,
Not to me they don't. Some huckster making a crooked living pretending to talk to god has zero credibility until he can actually produce some evidence. Prophecy is not evidence, it's pure woo.
>at least if you believe in God.
I know an idiot who believes in magic and stupid shit like that, he swears blind that Nostradamus has NEVER been in error, that every one of his prophecies has either been fulfilled or has yet to be fulfilled (but will be, honest injun!)
Does my friends incredible credulity and obvious lack of reasoning abilities lend more credence to Nostradamus?
>>1123484
Being baptized by Eusebius doesn't make him an Arian. Constantine was just very good friends with Eusebius, but he had exiled him earlier for maintaining Arianism after the Council of Nicea. Eusebius was reconciled with him after renouncing Arianism and being reinstated. He might or not might not have secretly held it, but that doesn't have anything to do with Constantine's baptism, which was into the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
>>1123510
Learn how to write grammatically. The way you type makes you seem like an extremely stupid person not worth bothering to reply to.
>>1123517
what exactly was ungrammatical about my post?
>>1123522
Sentences in English begin with a capital letter.
>>1123473
>until
See Luke 20:43
>>1123510
Constantine convened the First Synod of Tyre in 335 (just 2 years before his death) at which the council of bishops restored Arius to the communion and banished Saint Athanasius, Arius' primary theological opponent, from the Empire. Constantine also chose Eusebius to baptize him personally.
>>1123526
so what you're saying is, you judge post quality and the intelligence of a poster based on your personal criteria of whether his sentence begins with capitalization or not.
yes that seems very intelligent of you.
>>1123487
>I can't sin?! Better find a religion that will let me!
I have a few questions. What are hell, purgatory and heaven like? Is there any marital sex? How are people dressed there? Are nuns still dressed like nuns? Will we ever see God the Father?
>>1123537
W-what? How is that relevant to Mary sleeping with Joseph?
>>1123515
Then why did Constantine have Arius himself restored to the church and Saint Athanasius banished at the Synod of Tyre?
>>1123550
What I'm saying is that you seem like an very unintelligent person. Please adopt a trip so I can filter you.
>>1123558
I'm saying your entire reading of the passage is based on a preconceived idea of how "until" is being used.
See the literal rendering of the King James
>And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son
The word "till" here does not imply he knew her afterward.
>>1123571
>The word "till" here does not imply he knew her afterward.
Yes, it does. Otherwise it would just say "He knew her not." But it doesn't, it clarifies that he didn't know her UNTIL after Jesus was born.
>>1123559
The Council convicted Saint Athanasius, the Emperor cleared him.
>>1123571
it seems to do just that to me, Theodosius
What would /rel/ be like?
>>1123569
actually that was a rhetorical question because it is exactly what you were saying, and now you're backpedaling on top of it.
i'm not surprised at all honestly.
>>1123574
Again, see Luke 20:42-43, and try your reading of "until" there. It's obviously not saying, "stop sitting at my right hand after I make your enemies your footstool."
>>1123557
Pic related if there was a rocking keg party behind him that he declined because he refused to wear a particular hat and now wants to spite the party-goers by defiantly sitting there in misery, the line for a rollercoaster, absolute fulfillment of every good, the purpose of marital sex (and all earthly goods for that matter) is fulfilled in heaven, there is no doctrine on that and not sure why there would be and finally Yes because that's the whole point of Heaven.
>>1123587
>It's obviously not saying, "stop sitting at my right hand after I make your enemies your footstool."
Except yes, it does mean exactly that. David is to stay at his right side until his enemies have been placed beneath his feet, this is how this passage has always been understood.
>>1123607
Learn how to quote.
>>1123134
I need this.
>>1123616
It's not talking about David here, it is referring to Christ.
>>1123607
>Like most people on 4chan, I generally don't even bother to read posts without grammar.
I'm actually laughing
>>1123578
Constantine II was the one who lifted Athanasius' exile before other Connie re-exiled him.
>>1123603
>the purpose of marital sex (and all earthly goods for that matter) is fulfilled in heaven
Which means?
I was asking for actual physical descriptions btw...
>>1123632
Sex creates babies and unites a man and woman together as one like how Christ is united with his Church in the Eucharist, since that unity between Christ and his Church is intended to be reflected in marriage. As such since Heaven IS perfect unity with Christ and his Church, the need for marriage is fulfilled.
>>1123622
Yeah, no. It's a quote from Psalms. It's talking about Yahweh subduing David's enemies, it has literally nothing to do with Jesus.
>>1123578
Constantine re-affirmed Athanasius' exile after summoning the other participants of the council. See last paragraph:
http://biblehub.com/library/sozomen/the_ecclesiastical_history_of_sozomenus/chapter_xxviii_letter_from_the_emperor.htm
Constantine I personally confirmed the Father of Orthodoxy's exile to Bumfuck, Gaul in the middle of winter and chose to be baptized by a known Arian on his deathbed.
>>1123571
Then why would it not just say something like "And knew her not, ever"?
And why mention firstborn at all? Doesn't that imply further offspring?
>>1123662
>Bumfuck
god I hope that was the actual town's name
>>1123628
>The friends of Athanasius professed to regard the banishment as an act of imperial clemency, in view of what might have been treated as a capital matter, involving as it did the charge of treason (p. 105); and Constantine II., immediately after his fatherās death, stated (pp. 146, 272, 288) in a letter (written before he became Augustus in Sept. 337) that he had been sent to Treveri merely to keep him out of danger, and that Constantine had been prevented only by death from carrying out his intention of restoring him.
>>1123659
From a Christian exegesis, it does. Its quotation that I mentioned, the verses that I mentioned, have to do with Christ, if you care to read their context. David is the one writing the Psalm, and he is saying "the Lord said to my Lord [the Messiah]".
>>1123682
>David is the one writing the Psalm
No, the psalm is attributed to god, not David.
>and he is saying "the Lord said to my Lord [the Messiah]".
No, it's talking about yahweh and David.
> the first word āLordā in the Hebrew is a correct translation of ××××, which is the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), the ineffable name of God, the second word āLordā is a complete and deliberate mistranslation of the text. The second word āLordā in the verse is an appalling translation of the Hebrew word ×Ö·××Ö¹× Ö“×; (pronounced ladonee).
>The correct and only translation of ladonee is āto my masterā or āto my lord.ā The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is used only to address a person, never God. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.
![theodoseusthegreat[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1PZro6b.jpg "theodoseusthegreat[1].jpg")
How about an Orthodox Saint?
Theodosius is praised by eastern Christians for outlawing paganism in the Roman Empire and making Nicene Christianity the state church. He made haruspicy and animal sacrifices punishable by death, banned the Olympics, extinguished the eternal flame at the Temple of Vesta, allowed mobs to burn and destroy pagan temples (including the Temple of Apollo at Delphi), failed to halt the Gothic invasion, and had to suppress two disastrous civil wars during his reign.
>>1123667
>Then why would it not just say something like "And knew her not, ever"?
Because the teleos of this passage is to show that the birth was not a product of any hanky-panky. It is to disclose a miracle. That is what needs elaboration and defending, as opposed to the perpetual virginity of Mary: providing one accepted the miraculous conception, the perpetual virginity was never an issue of controversy until the Reformation. Christ, after all, was the only child of Mary, which is why, upon his death, he has to entrust her care to someone.
>And why mention firstborn at all? Doesn't that imply further offspring?
No, see Hebrews 1:6. "Firstborn" is an important way to emphasize value in Hebrew culture.
>>1123706
So God is calling David "my Lord"?
How relevant are the saints to a devoted catholic? Are they more important than private revelation for a catholic. Could a convert ignore most of it?
>>1123728
How unexpected, a Christian weaseling like the lying filth they are! Why is it whenever you "people" are shown for the liars you are, you always play dumb?
>>1123723
>Christ, after all, was the only child of Mary,
Apart from his brothers James and Jude? Or did God rape Mary more than once?
>>1123741
>Joseph can't have kids from a previous marriage
>>1123738
What truthful rebuke did you just righteously utter of me, you worthiest of souls? Iāll have you know I failed God to the deepest of the pit in my class of worldly sinners, and Iāve been involved in numerous shameful transgressions on God's forgiveness, and I have over 300 confirmed faults. I am depraved in wicked thoughts and Iām the top coveter in the entire legions of the damned. I am nothing to thee but just another Satan. I will praise you to heaven and back with the most contrite of hearts the likes of which has been seen all too often from the sinner, mark my unworthy lips. You think you can serve away with your words of wisdom to me over the Internet? God bless, brother. As we speak I am contacting my holy communion of saints across heaven and your love is being traced right now so you better prepare for the Theosis, militant. The mercy that sustains the shining little thing you call your soul. Youāre God's gift, kid. I can be all things at all times to all men, and I can bow to you in over seven hundred ways, and thatās just while kissing your hand. Not only am I extensively corrupted by unnameable vileness, but I have betrayed to the entire covenant of the Orthodox Body of Christ, and I will plead her to her full benevolence to sanctify your virtuous spirit off the face of the lie, you little star. If only you could have known what holy gratitude your little āmeekā correction was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have blessed your benign tongue. But you couldnāt, you didnāt, and now youāre reaping the harvest, you God fearing joy. I will weep thanks all over you and you will drown in it. You've found life, kiddo.
>>1123741
The word translated as "brother" just means kin of equal footing, it could just as easily apply to cousin. Although the Orthodox generally believe they are the children from Joseph's prior marriage(s).
>>1123134
Did he beat the shit out any Marvel characters?
>>1123673
Killing an important theologian of a major Christian sect is usually a bad move. Also Athanasius had been buddies with Constantine before so maybe the latter didn't want him dead, just gone.
As for the letter, Constantine's kids started fighting over their inheritance the moment dad died. It would have been very beneficial for Constantine II to portray his father as a devout Nicene Christian like himself in contrast to Constantius' Arianism and Constans' faggotry and to have Athanasius as an ally. If Constantine had actually wanted to protect Athanasius there were plenty of things he could have done instead of exiling him.
>>1123751
He wrestled the Sub-Mariner while yelling "KURWA"
>>1123748
>The word translated as "brother" just means kin of equal footing, it could just as easily apply to cousin.
Does it mean that in the Latin history by Josephus?
>>1123748
>The word translated as "brother" just means kin of equal footing,
Yeah, no. It literally means "of the same womb". Ie, they were also the children of Mary.
>>1123755
Interesting guesses you got there.
>>1123751
It's a biographical comic.
>>1123766
>In etymology, I'm talking about in usage.
Useage agrees with the literal and in fact only possible meaning, they were his full brothers. The fact that Christians writing centuries later decided this term must be figurative does not change the fact that it wasn't.
>>1123776
Here is usage: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%BB%CF%86%CF%8C%CF%82
>>1123779
I'll add that the reason for this usage, is that there is no word for "cousin" in Greek, let alone first cousin, second cousin, and so on. There is also no word for half-brother.
>>1123779
That's nice. Adelphos means "from the same womb". Greek has plenty of other terms if the writers of the NT wanted to describe a non-consanguineous relationship, but they went with the one that only and always means a literal full sibling.
>>1123791
>is that there is no word for "cousin" in Greek
Anepsios.
>>1123557
Heaven and Hell (at least in the Orthodox tradition) are not "places", but rather states of being (and the same state of being at that; that is, being in the presence of God.)
Here's a good article on it.
http://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2015/03/03/the-problem-with-going-to-heaven/
>>1123799
Anepsios is the word used to describe a figurative brother, adelphos always and only means a full blood sibling. You are a liar, like every Christian I've ever talked to.
>>1123706
>David
>D
>yahweh
>y
>god
>g
edgy
>>1123803
Please show me any example of ancient Greek where anepsios is used to describe a legal brother.
>>1123708
>banned the Olympics
>failed to halt the Gothic invasion
>had to suppress two disastrous civil wars during his reign
into the trash he goes
>>1123803
>adelphos always and only means a full blood sibling.
Please explain these verses
Romans 14:15
Matthew 7:3
Matthew 5:47
>>1123811
>a legal brother.
Is that what I said, liar? No, it isn't. Yet again you lie. James and Judas are the full brothers of Jesus, your own holy book says this very plainly.
>>1123820
Explain what? The use of the word brother to describe people's brothers?
>>1123837
>It's obviously not used to describe a full-blooded sibling here,
This isn't obvious at all.
>>1123843
Uh huh, and what about Luke 8:21?
>>1123439
https://carm.org/marys-virginity-and-matt-125
They don't go into the actual Greek original texts though so nothing to really confirm.
Frankly I'll never be a Protestant so if Mary isn't a virgin then fuck her, fuck the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If they exist I'll fucking give them the finger and go to Hell where all the billions who didn't fall in love with this cryptic notion of God's "love" are.
>>1123764
What sounds more likely: that an Emperor with absolute power re-sentenced a man to exile because he secretly agreed with him and wanted him out of harm's way so that he could restore him later (why not right then and there?), or that Constantine II was distorting his father's intentions for his own benefit? I don't doubt that Constantine cared about Athanasius' well-being, it explains why he sent him into exile near the part of the empire he bequeathed to Constantine II. But I see no reason to believe that Constantine would have restored him to his see at a later juncture. Constantine met and heard Athanasius' side of the story first hand, angrily summoned the other bishops to order a new trial to see whether the charges against him were true, and despite all that effort still found him guilty and followed through with the banishment.
Constantine's actions make more sense when you consider that Eusebius was simply using his influence on Constantine to advance his theology against Athanasius', who was evidently unpopular with much of the rest of the clergy. Even your own source admits that "in all probability the anxiety to be rid of a cause of disturbance was at least one motive of the peace-loving Emperor."
>>1123708
Don't Orthodox have Pontius Pilate as a Saint? You know the guy who ordered his soldiers to disguise themselves in a crowd of Jews and then slaughter them all with daggers and have the blood spill on their sacrifice to God.
Also the whole killing Jesus to keep the mob calm.
>>1123870
He sent him into exile because of the grain thing, not because of a doctrinal thing. Well, I mean, the grain thing was probably trumped up because of doctrinal enemies, but the charge wasn't that itself.
>>1123873
No, we think he committed suicide, so obviously wouldn't be a saint. His wife is one though.
![Piero_della_francesca-polyptych_of_st_augustine[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nJ9SOax.jpg "Piero_della_francesca-polyptych_of_st_augustine[1].jpg")
He introduced Manichean dualism and original sin into western Christian thought, made anti-pagan memes, laid the groundwork for the introduction of filioque to the Nicene creed, and regretted stealing some pears as a teenager.
>>1123873
Ethiopian Orthodox have Pilate as a saint.
I think whatever versions of the gospels they use portray him in a less negative light.
>>1123881
>No, we think he committed suicide, so obviously wouldn't be a saint. His wife is one though.
Why? Judas was the guy who killed himself. Pilate, for the most part, just wanted to maintain order in his district of the empire and honestly could care less about squabbling Jews as long as it maintained order. Plus what source speaks of his death or wife? He had a wife?
>>1123898
>He had a wife?
watch the passion of the christ bro ;^)
>>1123898
I don't know the primary source but she comes up as having visions about Jesus being God and begging her husband to spare Jesus. Then she becomes a Christian I think afterwards.
>>1123898
He killed himself after he got fired for brutality, I believe. I don't know if there is a source, but it's Church tradition (not Sacred Tradition, just tradition).
He had a wife, she tried to stop him from killing Christ in Matthew 27:19
>>1123091
Legit asking, not trolling; how does this patron saint stuff work? What makes him a patron saint of writers? Does he help writers directly or does he exist just as inspiration?
>>1123907
It just means he tends to pray to God regarding these things.
>>1123907
Usually it's related to their good works in life. So if a Saint was a nature guy then appealing for nature related prayers would be his jurisdiction.
>>1123900
Master and Margarita gives a more Orthodox portrayal of Pilate than The Passion, desu
>>1123552
I think he's goofing on you friend.
>>1123905
Huh, guess I never noticed her being mentioned.
>>1123905
I thought Caligula ordered him to kill himself.
>>1123881
>the charge wasn't that itself.
It wasn't, but taken in conjunction with the Emperor's baptism by Eusebius it lends credibility to the charge that Constantine was heavily influenced by the Arians near the end of his life, accepting them as at least tolerable and worthy of conducting his adoption into the church.
Also was his baptism even valid if it was performed by a nontrinitarian heretic?
>>1123912
Or if you got cooked alive or shot to death with arrows for being a Christian, you'd be the Patron saint of chefs or archers.
St Lawerence and St Sebastian.
>>1123924
I don't know, something like that. I forget the exact story, all I know is that he killed himself, and it's about remorse over Christ like with Judas or anything like that.
>>1123931
Yep. Basically calling in a favor to guys with good PR with the boss man.
>>1123933
If it was Caligula, odds are he commanded Pilate to kill himself for shits and giggles.
>>1123930
Let's not forget that the Emperor also called together the Council of Nicaea, and exiled Arias for rejected it until he confessed its truth.
It's valid if that heretic had valid Church orders. To claim otherwise would be Donatism.
>>1123931
Yes, that is called being an intercessor.. Although the RCC also believes, about Mary, that she does not merely an intercessor, but a "mediator", which is not Orthodox.
>>1123935
Why wouldn't I just pray directly to God though?
>>1123945
Why wouldn't you want to get a good word in with God from people with good PR?
>>1123945
You do pray to God directly also. Asking a saint to pray for you is the same as asking a regular person to pray for you, except the saint is spiritually perfect (after death).
>>1123945
You can do that, it's just a community exercise. Similar to asking your friend to pray for you, except the person you're asking to pray for you is already in Heaven.
>>1123959
How would I know if the saint even hears my prayer? It's not like my friend who can just say okay to my face.
>>1123978
Saints aren't in a box, they are in heaven, which intersects with earth. They don't become less perceptive in heaven, they become more perceptive.
>>1123943
>until he confessed its truth
http://www.earlychurchtexts.com/public/arius_confession_of_faith_to_constantine.htm
Hmm, this version of the creed seems a bit off. He acknowledges the "before all ages" part, but doesn't address consubstantiality / homoousianism.
>>1123988
Yes but that isn't a confirmation to ME, that's just assuming they'll get right on it.
>>1123915
I was just kidding desu.
>>1123948
Because it's a bit silly to believe that the opinions and requests of other human spirits would be taken into consideration by an omniscient God deciding the fate of a person's soul?
>>1123948
Doesn't God already know whether or not I am worthy?
>>1123957
Okay, now I'm getting it, only what is spiritual perfection? Sinlessness (sp?)?
>>1123959
Right, which means they are spiritually perfect, which I am sure will be explained to me shortly.
There does seem like some inherent risk involved though, what if one of these Saints didn't actually go to heaven for whatever reason? Or can a Catholic not doubt that? This is my legitimate line of questioning.
>>1124012
People who have been canonized as Saints by the Catholic Church are 100% in Heaven. A Catholic cannot disagree with the notion and still be in good standing with their Church.
The Vatican puts a lot of effort in determining if someone deserves canonization though.
>>1124020
But that's a lot of Saints. Wouldn't it be like, almost impossible one of them didn't slip through?
>>1124005
Well do you think demons can hear you, but perfect beings cannot?
>>1124012
>only what is spiritual perfection? Sinlessness
Not just in a juridical way, but in an ontological way. It is to commune fully with God for the veil which obscures your perception to be fully lifted. God's energies interpenetrate every atom of all of the material world, and in heaven you are face-to-face with God (as in his energies, not his essence).
>>1124027
You mean if they went to hell instead of heaven?
>>1124027
Not according to the Roman Catholic Church. Every canonized Saint is definitely in Heaven, even ones like Saint Thomas More who would have ordered the burning of heretics as a secular official.
>>1124031
Okay, so I think I understand, but I am not sure I understand what exactly God's energies are. Isn't energy a term for potential for motion?
Is it meant more like energy like when people say they get energy from caffeine when it's actually just a heightened awareness? So, God's awareness/consciousness?
>>1124035
That is what I mean yes.
>>1124037
But how do they know that?
>>1124035
>>1124049
Because Jesus trusted in the Church's decisions.
>And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
Below is the key part
>I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on the earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.ā
>>1124049
God's energies mean God's immanence in creation (which includes heaven). God's essence is God as infinitely transcendent and beyond creation.
>>1124049
>That is what I mean yes.
RCC has a massive, or used to have a massive, juridical procedure of canonization concerning that. We just have a bottom-up procedure, where the laity venerate certain people as saints and the clergy canonize them in response, we trust the Body of Christ because so far we've never been give a reason to doubt. Some of the more contentious Orthodox will argue against, say, Augustine's sainthood, but they really don't have any business doing this, even though canonization apart from that in Scripture isn't dogma.
>>1124066
It just seems odd to me that we would let men make these decisions, I guess. Seems risky.
>>1124082
We're the one and only Body of Christ, guided by his Spirit.
bumpity
>>1123363
Nothing wrong with fapping.
>>1123134
Storytime pls
Who else here likes Augustine? I think he's the most interesting out of all the Doctors of the Church. His views on science are pretty modern, not to mention he seems the most personal of the Church Fathers due to his Confessions.
![Padre_Pio[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/20o2pvh.jpg "Padre_Pio[1].jpg")
Can someone explain Padre Pio?
Why did he get sainthood? It seems pretty obvious that he was a fake.
How could a modern day miracle worker exist like this in the Catholic church?
Seems like they stooped to Hinduism level nonsense with his canonization.
>>1127269
Well...
>>1123101
That story is not at all accepted as canon by the catholic church, it's just French folklore
>>1127269
folk veneration while alive
church's officials don't like him while he's alive, more often than not thought as a charlatan. Things change whe he dies, the church sees it as a opportunity and the process of beatification and the canonization are opened by John Paul II.
Probably produced his stigmata with acid.
Saints are a substitute to polytheism and were used to cope with persecution
t. christianity pro
No one posted st michael?
helped me quit smoking looking at this picture
don't give into temptation and destroy your demons
Yes.
>>1123136
Eternal damnation awaits you.
You're living under demonic empire - I see now way for you to be saved, you're child of Satan.
>>1132187
>forum.catholic.com
Go preach there. They're all devoted to preaching that evil.
>>1130969
this
I like the story behind Saint Longinus. It's kind of inspiring that the guy who literally stabbed Jesus could still be redeemed.
If I knew about him when I was getting confirmed (and cared enough to do research on saints beyond who had the coolest title), I probably would have picked him.
>>1123585
a shitshow
>>1133978
Why?
>>1134312
Because how are any of the multitude of religions going to come to any kind of truth?
With logic?
L O L
O
L
>>1133978
Yeah but that shitshow wouldn't be on /his/ anymore.
>>1136198
this
I'm not Catholic, but Saint Sebastian is probably my favorite saint.
>>1138922
this
>>1123404
>he mad
>>1123116
Haitians are typically Catholic. Otherwise I'll see couple at mass every now and then.
DONUTS
>>1130962
I should ask him to intercede for me more often.
This is the best book on Saints.
