What made the Low Countries and Germany drift away from each other?
Teutonic plates
>>1122694
ha gateeeem
>>1122596
The low countries are very alluvial providing geographical barriers, they are also connected to trade with Denmark, France and England. The rise of sea trade during the Renaissance rivalling trade along the Rhine coincides with the religious upheavals and greater independence.
It is possible that "robber barons" played a role in this. Previously the empire would regulate tolls and taxes ensuring everything is fair and square, when this system broke down and the HRE didn't offer them much protection against French incursions, various cities probably began to wonder why they bothered. Though I'm speculating here.
>>1122596
French and Protestants.
>>1122596
>>1122596
>all of that filthy protestant land in my HRE
Monitoring this thread.
>>1122694
Dead
>>1122694
Wunderbar
>>1122596
It's worth noting that there have been linguistic and cultural differences between the low countries and parts of Germany for a while. Old Dutch (and of course it's ancestor, Frankish) is fairly distinct from Old High German. It's clear that there was a distinction between people from different areas of the HRE for a long time.
Although, from what I know, Western Germanic languages maintained some level of mutual intelligibility well into the Early Middle Ages. The differences magnified over time, especially with different political, economic and cultural influences.
Even then, Dutch remains very close to standard German and English.
>>1122935
if the migrants to frisia were saxons, when did they start to diverge from other germans
how did a german in hamburg end up having more in common with a bavarian than a netherlander a short sail away
>>1122694
noice
Why even call them Low Countries? Geographic bullshittery? Map hocuspocus?
>>1124852
Because Belgians het upset when you call it the Netherlands
Need more info. And memes.
Why are Belgians infected by French poison while the Dutch remain untainted by German degeneracy.
When and how did Northern Italy stop being part of HRE?
>>1124885
Northern Italy remained German longer than the HRE existed.
>>1122694
damn. . .
>>1124885
Most of it stopped being HRE when the communes declared their independence through the 12th and 13th century. Some of these communes went back to being part of the HRE (at least de jure) after becoming signorie, since their princes sought to be named imperial vicar for appearances' sake. Florence for one didn't choose to do that, so a big piece of central Italy stopped being HRE
Venice was never HRE to begin with, so every piece of Italy it conquered meant a shrinking of the HRE's italian land.
The Papal States went independent after Pepin's donation I think? Well they did at some point, and they gobbled up the rest of central Italy that Florence and Venice didn't conquer.
>>1125049
>The Papal States went independent after Pepin's donation I think?
I checked, legal independence happened after the lombard league war, with the treaty of Venice in 1177. I was only 423 years off kek.
>>1122596
Fucking Spaniards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War
>>1122596
Random amalgamation of fiefdoms in the west of the HRE end up under the Burgundians, then the Spanish.
Split roughly along modern Dutch-Belgian border during the Dutch revolt 1568-1648.
Burgundians
>>1124852
Cause it's below sealevel you nigger
>>1125160
This.
Fun fact: They have small, foamy beers because if you knocked over an English pint, you'd flood the country.
>>1123009
Because the states that would make-up modern Germany had centuries of intermingling and amalgamating a common dialect.
The Netherlands was more heavily influenced with Old Frankish and retained their distinctive features. It is interesting to see how Old English and Frisian sound in common.
>>1122694
I am thoroughly pleased by this response in adult, mature ways
Because of Spain
>>1122596
French/British political/cultural influence, trade differences, the decline of the HRE, religious differences, the fact that they were slightly different to begin with, etc.
Being Dutch, I can say that the rift between Germany and the Low Countries was more of a religious shift than anything else. Protestantism and later Calvinism paved the way for commerce and trade. No longer did the Vatican pressure the populace to fear the Lord and pay fealty to the clergy and king and earn a place in heaven.
Protestantism and especially Calvinism decreed that the lord was served best by labouring hard and that, if laboured for it, one may enjoy the fruits of labour. Thus, accrue wealth. This state of mind gave the early Dutch Republic an advantage when trading.
Colonies were no longer found with the Mission as its primary goal, but instead to make pure profit with the Mission as an afterthought.
Of course this brought them into conflict with Catholic nations.
>>1122596
pic. related and his cheap wool
>>1124885
1806, HRE was dissolved
>>1122694
See you on /r/4chan
>>1122596
The Spanish king sentenced all Dutch to death, which in return led to civil war for several decades. In the Peace of Westphalia they managed to declare independece.
Catholic maniacs fucked it all up.
>>1128791
>The Spanish king sentenced all Dutch to death.
Nigga, what?
>>1128807
>Philip next submitted a "Memorial and Representation" of the state of the Low Countries to the Spanish Inquisition craving the judgment of the Fathers upon it. After deliberating, the inquisitors pronounced their decision on the 16th of February, 1568. It was to the effect that, "with the exception of a select list of names which had been handed to them, all the inhabitants of the Netherlands were heretics or abettors of heresy, and so had been guilty of the crime of high treason." On the 26th of the same month, Philip confirmed this sentence by a proclamation, in which he commanded the decree to be carried into immediate execution, without favour or respect of persons. The King of Spain actually passed sentence of death upon a whole nation. We behold him erecting a common scaffold for its execution, and digging one vast grave for all the men, and women, and children of the Low Countries. "Since the beginning of the world," says Brandt, "men have not seen or heard any parallel to this horrible sentence. (Wylie, History of Protestantism, vol. II, p. 70.)
http://www.reformation.org/heroic-holland.html
bump
greater nederlands when?
