>No Mary, No Jesus
>Know Mary, Know Jesus
Discuss
I worship Mary, but not Jesús. We aren't supposed to pray to him.
>future generations will call me blessed
>by the way this this means worship me as a goddess please
>>1115098
Jesus preceded Mary by 1.0 eternities.
>>1115120
Typical catholic.
No, just kidding. Not even a papist would be this idiotic.
>>1115098
>Discuss
NAH SON FUCK YOU I AIN'T TELLIN SHIT!
I find that her traditional depictions resemble a vulva.
Veneration of Mary is truly right, but I can't condone the Catholic practice of praying to her more than the Trinity, or the Catholic practice of calling her "co-redeemer" or the mediator to Christ (which she is absolutely not).
>>1115258
>>1115490
I think the image was purposefully made that way. Or at the very least subconsciously it was
>>1115259
Why? Because "hur dur muh innovations!"? Reminder that the Nicene Creed was an "innovation" when it was first written.
At least we both agree she's the Theotokos, the Mother of God. Too many Prots whine about how that's apparently wrong because "God's eternal and Mary didn't give birth to the Trinity bringing it into existence! She is the Mother of Jesus, who is God, but she's not the Mother of God!"
Talk about Prautism, right?
>>1115259
Who gave birth to Christ?
>>1115715
Yeah, Mary. So telling her off and giving her the boot is kinda cuntish, don't you agree?
>>1115708
Who existed first? Jesus or Mary?
>>1115722
I think Protestants who don't acknowledge she is the Mother of God are heretics, if that is what you are asking. She is the Ark of the New Covenant, the Queen of Heaven, and to be venerated above the rest of creation.
>>1115739
Mary, then Jesus.
>>1115740
Show me in the bible where Mary is the Mother of God.
>>1115739
The Logos. Which wasn't become Jesus yet. The Logos was not become Jesus until after Mary's existence. She is the Mother of the flesh of the Logos (Luke 1:43), which IS the Logos (John 1:14), which IS God (John 1:1).
>>1115743
I hope that one day you repent, and are saved.
>>1115750
You are also a polytheist.
>>1115752
I said show me "Mother of God" in the bible.
I'll wait.
>>1115740
>I think Protestants who don't acknowledge she is the Mother of God are heretics, if that is what you are asking. She is the Ark of the New Covenant, the Queen of Heaven, and to be venerated above the rest of creation.
HOLY
FUCK
>>1115751
Don't act like a retard, if we're going into it thinking that Jesus, the son of God, came before Mary, the woman who got knocked up with God, then it's silly.
>>1115760
Jesus created the universe.
Did Jesus create the universe before Mary was born?
>>1115764
God created the universe.
Jesus is still the son of God, an aspect of God.
>>1115780
Then you're also a polytheist.
Jesus is God.
>>1115758
"Queen" seldom indicates joint rulership in Biblical parlance, it's a title for the mother of the king (rather than his wife, as the king generally had several). It has nothing to do with joint-rulership in this context..Mary is the Throne of God, but not a joint-ruler
>>1115788
>polytheist
You're a retard, are you also against the Trinity?
>>1115790
I'm starting to see why people have absolutely no regard for what you say here.
Here's the Queen of Heaven in the bible:
Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger.
Does that sound like something God loves?
The Queen of Heaven is only one person: Semiramis of Babylon, wife of Nimrod the tower builder, and mother of Tammuz.
You are so lost, and yet you don't have any concept of what lost is.
>>1115792
You are if you think God created the universe before Jesus was born.
>>1115792
The Theotokos is not a part of the Trinity, she is a part of creation. She is above the *rest* of creation, but not above creation itself.
>>1115790
And yet the Prautist still shouts "MUH SEMINARIS WHORE OF ABALONE EUCHARIST IS A BABYLONIAN WORD MEANING CAKE OFFERED TO THE PAGAN QUEEN OF HEQVEN!!!!!!!!!" like complete idiots.
Honestly, Sola Scriptura is just something you come to when you suck ass at Biblical exegesis. "If it's not blatantly and obviously stated in the Bible it's wrong." That's why you get Neo-Arians like the JWs denying the divinity of Jesus and considering blood transfusions to be a violation of Jewish ceremonial laws concerning blood.
>>1115805
No, no she is not. She is not above any of the elders; she is not above any of the apostles.
She is blessed among WOMEN for she was chosen to bear the Messiah, a thing all Jewish girls wanted to do, and Mary did.
Your Mother Earth cult is sickening.
>>1115799
The Queen of Heaven is from Psalms 45:9 and Revelations 11:19-12:1
What you're saying is as tenuous as saying worshiping the Lord is pagan (since Baal means "Lord"), or worshiping God is pagan (since Baal is a god).
>>1115815
Jesus, God, came down from heaven in the flesh.
If you do not know that, you are powered by the spirit of Antichrist, not of Jesus Christ.
>>1115816
JW have literally changed their bible so that Michael the Archangel is Jesus.
>>1115822
No, he was born on Earth as the lamb of God to die for us sinners.
Imagine bringing the actual Miriam/Yeshua into the modern age and having them see all the crazy elaborate theology that has sprung up around them.
>>1115819
Fucking retarded. You're just fucking retarded. That's all I can say.
Psalm 45
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Glories of the Messiah and His Bride
Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant[h] was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
>The ark is the real ark; the one Moses built was a copy.
The Woman, the Child, and the Dragon
12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL, NOT MARY.
>>1115833
>New
>King
>James
>Version
Anon no.
>>1115818
Call me back when flesh of the Apostles or the elders is sacred enough to carry God and mold him out of.
>>1115828
No, no He was not. He came down from heaven to be the Lamb of God, to die for all of us.
John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Philippians 2
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
>>1115833
>THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL, NOT MARY.
Literally what Jews say about all Messiah talked about in Isaiah, "It's Israel, not Jesus."And their case has more substance than yours.
>>1115835
If you consider The Holy Spirit to be God, everyone's flesh is holy enough to carry it. Hell, Catholics and Orthodox think they literally eat God all the time. Mary's special, sure, but not that special.
>>1115834
NKJV Yes. KVJ Yes.
>>1115835
You'll never meet any of them. You're going to where everyone who worships Mother Earth goes.
Sin nature is passed down by FATHERS, not mothers, and Jesus' Father is sinless.
Your idolatry is nauseating.
>>1115845
And Mary communed with Christ before anyone else did, physically. Communion is sacred, but it's not about made of your own flesh. Christ was made from Mary's flesh.
>>1115849
Orthodox don't subscribe to original sin doctrine of passing on sin through seed.
>>1115843
Jews are right and wrong about many things; that is not my concern.
The woman revealed in Revelation is Israel; the 12 stars are the same 12 stars that were in Joseph's dream. Her circumstances of hiding for 42 months is what Israel will do during the Troubles of Jacob, not what Mary did. The earth will open up and destroy the beast's armies, nothing like that happened in Jesus' time.
The woman is ISRAEL.
>>1115851
>not about made of your own flesh.
So Mary ranks slightly above wheat on the sacredness scale?
>>1115855
Doesn't matter. And if you're a rep for Orthodoxy, you're the most papist Orthodox I've ever seen.
>>1115862
The muslims think the holy Trinity is Father, Son and Mary.
I'm starting to think that the Orthodox do too
>>1115799
>The Queen of Heaven is only one person: Semiramis of Babylon, wife of Nimrod the tower builder, and mother of Tammuz.
>I can drop names guys!
Seminaris was the legendary wife of the Assyrian King Ninus, and also eventual queen of Assyria. She wasn't to sky goddess anymore than Helen of Troy was a war goddess.
Tammuz's mother didn't have the title "Queen of Heaven. Rather, it was the title of his Consort in Sumerian mythology, Ianna, who was a Sky Goddess (Heaven/Sky are pretty interchagable to the ancients), plus Tammuz was only ever mentioned by Ezekiel ONCE.
Nimrod was the founder of Ninevah, not Assyria. Thus claiming Ninus is Nimrod is as retarded as claiming George Washington founded Canada.
>Reminder that pic related is fanfic-levels of historically credible and only idiots take it seriously.
>>1115887
>You know why the doctrine is there, correct?
Because Saint Augustine seldom read the Greek Fathers, because he disliked reading Greek.
>>1115901
So that makes any of his doctrine less true because he doesn't wanna read Greek?
>>1115903
His doctrine is less true because he derived it from a poor, pre-Vulgate translation of the Bible, and he would know it was faulty if he read the Fathers
>>1115924
That's asinine and you know it.
>>1115942
Yes, I do.
>>1115958
So why are you being an ass?
>>1115120
Literal heresy.
>>1115751
You're getting Jesus and the Word mixed up. The Word was around since the beginning, but Jesus didn't exist until the Word became flesh.
>>1115999
Jesus is the Word and always existed.
>>1115886
You should read the book, instead of posting an image of it.
The names of pagan gods are the most changeable things in the universe.
>>1116026
Jesus is the product of the hypostatic union.
>>1115887
Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
Ephesians 4:9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 4:10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
>>1115961
I mean how the doctrine became authoritative. Saint Augustine can't be faulted, since he would absolutely correct it if he talked to other Church Fathers (he'd surely also correct his Nestorian doctrine). The RCC, however, has no such excuse.
>>1115889
The woman is Israel.
The ark of the covenant was always in heaven; the one Moses built was a copy.
Hebrews 8
For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”
>>1115999
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
I'm not getting anything mixed up.
>>1116043
Nor do you. You believe the same blasphemies and abominations that they do; you just have more popes.
>>1116053
The Ark of the Old Covenant doesn't exist in heaven, since the Old Covenant is defunct.
>>1116043
What excuse, it works. It literally just works.
>>1116072
No bishop has the power to infallibly declare dogma, nor is any bishop referred to as a pontiff, nor is any bishop considered to be emperor of the planet.
>>1116077
No it doesn't, or else clones would be excepted.
>>1116086
So there is no Just War? So the doctrine is full of shit? No, fuck that.
>>1116028
>The names of pagan gods are the most changeable things in the universe.
So Helios and Amaterasu are the same thing then?
Also, Protestantism is an offshoot of Catholicism. If Catholicism is Babylonian paganism, so is Protestantism and offshoot of Babylonian paganism.
Causality bitch.
>>1116068
The Word is a little different from Jesus though. Jesus is a combination of man and God. The Word is solely God.
>>1116073
The author of Hebrews says that it does.
>>1116083
Your church and their church are almost literally the same. And 95%+ of the lot of you are damned.
>>1116099
There is no such thing as Protestantism; it happened 500 years ago.
There have been Christians since 32 AD.
There have been Catholics since 325 AD.
There is very little if any overlap.
>>1116103
See Jeremiah 3:16. The Ark of the Old Covenant is defunct.
Hebrews says the tabernacle is the earthly model of heaven, which it still is. That's why Orthodox Churches have a dome overhead with Christ in it, and icons of angels everywhere.
Tell me when Protestant tabernacles use incense like in heaven (Revelations 8:4). We still do.
>>1116097
Yeah
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Just_war
>>1116147
But that is justified by Augustine, are you saying you're a hypocrite?
>>1116110
No, we're not 95% the same, in either dogma or worship. Vatican II will show you that.
Catholics do not conceive of dogma like we do, they see dogma as supposedly unchanging, but the understanding of it changing with the current year (and getting progressively better). The Orthodox believe the understanding of dogma is part of dogma itself, and is not to be changed, being transmitted directly by Christ.
The letters of Saint Ignatius of Antioch will show you what the early Church looked like:
https://www.ewtn.com/library/PATRISTC/IGNATIUS.HTM
>>1116157
Did you even read the article?
>>1116193
>implying
The dogma is justified, etc etc.
>>1116204
It doesn't justify it, says "just war theory" is not part of Orthodox dogma. Killing is always a sin, even in war, and always require repentance and confession. Killing is ALWAYS a sin, full stop, it doesn't matter the conditions.
>>1116218
Killing isn't a sin if it's justified.
>>1116218
>Killing is always a sin
Question: why don't you hold something of an anarcho-pacifist position ala Tolstoy then?
>>1116241
>It's wrong to protect yourself
>It's immoral to protect your state
>It's immoral to protect God
Disgusting.
>>1116241
>Because I care about the lives of the innocent when they need to be defended.
So, you're willing to sin then? Isn't that against your beliefs? I thought the aim was to try to not sin.
>>1116249
Whether you think it is any of those is beside the point: it is still a sin. That is why David was not allowed to build God's temple, because all the people he killed in war.
You have a juridical conception of sin in the West, we don't. We view sin as that which impairs someone's spirituality, and killing always does that, even if you say it is for a greater cause, it still will impair you spiritually, and that is what sin is.
>>1116263
>You have a juridical conception of sin in the West, we don't.
What country to do you live in?
>>1116133
The real ark is in heaven.
The one on earth is a copy.
Neither is MARY, as you stated.
Our prayers to God are the incense being burned; your prayers to Mary, and your lighting of incense in your dens of depravity, go nowhere.
You are not a Christian.
You may as well be a papist.
>>1116185
You're two legs on the same statue.
The statue Daniel spoke of to Nebuchadnezzar.
The statue that Jesus will destroy, utterly.
>>1116251
It is, but not everyone can bear the full extent of the cross. That doesn't make sin not a sin, but it mitigates it's penance under certain circumstances. For instance, for a murderer in Byzantine, ten years of abstaining from communion and doing penance was required, but for those returning from war it was only three years.
>>1116282
I honestly can no longer tell if you're posting unironically or not.
>>1116083
>No bishop has the power to infallibly declare dogma
What do you believe we believe infallibility to be?
>nor is any bishop referred to as a pontiff
Technically you can call all Bishops "pontiffs." That's why if you want to get technical, Pope Francis is the SUPREME Pontiff, and, oh, Andrew Yeom Soo-Jung or Robert Barron, are just regular Pontiffs.
Tawardos and Bartholemew can call themselves Pontiffs if they'd wish and that wouldn't technically be an issue theologically. It may cause scandal though, so of course they wouldn't do that.
>nor is any bishop considered to be emperor of the planet
>drawing_of_pope_walking_past_computer_holding_drink_with_a_perplexed_look_on_his_face.jpg
What Pope ever did that? And furthermore, what recent Pope ever did that?
>>1116270
U.S.
By "West" I mean the RCC and Protestants.
>>1116274
Revelations 11:19 is referring to the same thing as Revelations 12:1. Don't forget there is no punctuation or chapters in the original text.
It says here this is the Ark of the Covenant in heaven: which covenant do you think is being referred to?
>>1116300
Just say Catholic.
>Orthodox in the US
You better be a slav. Anyways, murder is different then killing.
>>1116276
Protestants actually have a much more common heritage of Augustinain theology with the RCC than the Orthodox Church does.
>>1116300
>By "West" I mean the RCC and Protestants.
>Protestants
Hey, don't lump us in with those loons. Catholics are Western (and Southern [Latin America and Africa], and Eastern [see things like the Archdiocese of Seoul or Eastern Rite Catholics]). Prots are delusional.
>>1116296
>Technically you can call all Bishops "pontiffs.
No. No you can't. Pontiff is the office of all believers, the universal priesthood.
>What Pope ever did that? And furthermore, what recent Pope ever did that?
None since the Middle Ages, but the Donation of Constantine was certainly a major point of contention.
>>1116309
I'm Greek Orthodox
Killing as a sin is not juridical, murder is a king of killing.
>>1115259
If you keep going like this, you will make me dislike orthobros, just stop
>>1116324
In the name of defense, if someone dies because I am trying to defend myself, then how am I in the wrong?
>>1116309
Also, let me clear up two things for you
1. Phyletism is a heresy.
2. We do not consider the RCC valid at all. As in, not even your baptism. The Orthodox Church is the universal Church. Just because you recognize our sacraments, doesn't mean we recognize yours.
>>1116309
You also might enjoy this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/15/greek-orthodox-church-latin-america_n_7065630.html
>Thousands of Orthodox Christians attended Holy Week services in Greek Orthodox churches in Central and South America this year — but most were not of Greek descent.
>Of its 550,000 members, only 5,000 are Greek, according to Maxwell Dotson, executive director of One World One Community, a non-profit co-founded by Metropolitan Athenagoras. The vast majority are natives of that region who are seeking a spiritual identity within the transplanted Greek church.
>>1116337
Sin isn't juridical, you seem to misunderstand it. It's like saying, "If I have to look through the mud to find my keys, then how are my hands dirty?"
>>1116360
>Just because you recognize our sacraments, doesn't mean we recognize yours.
Man, are you trying to piss people off? Because all you're doing is pissing people off.
>tripfagging a goddamn tranny
>>1116369
>"If I have to look through the mud to find my keys, then how are my hands dirty?"
I don't fucking know, maybe he did something else, maybe it was the keys, maybe it was him doing something else.
>>1116309
Here's another one for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America
>Many conservative former Anglicans have turned to the archdiocese as a jurisdiction, some joining and leading Western Rite parishes with liturgy more familiar to Western Christians. The current mission of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America is to "bring Orthodoxy to America" and has a very active Department on Mission and Evangelism which was chaired by Fr. Peter Gillquist who led the mass conversion of the Evangelical Orthodox Church to Eastern Orthodoxy. Gullquist retired in December 2011 and died in July 2012. Fr. Michael Keiser was named as his successor as head of the department.[4] The archdiocese broadcasts Ancient Faith Radio, an Internet-based radio station with content themed around Orthodox Christianity.
>As a result of its evangelism and missionary work, the Antiochian Archdiocese saw significant growth between the mid-1960s and 2012. The archdiocese had only 65 parishes across the United States in the mid-1960s and by 2011 this number had increased to 249 parishes.[5]
Orthodoxy in the U.S. is doing well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRXbLAIPcU
>>1116389
Why are you trying to push your church onto me?
>>1116378
>Man, are you trying to piss people off? Because all you're doing is pissing people off.
Then don't preach phyletism.
>>1116392
Why are you trying to project phyletisim on mine, or act as if it's absurd for it to be in America?
>>1116324
Always thought you were Russian for some reason.
But that's why I clarified with "recent."
Benedict XVII didn't hold a Banquet of Chestnuts, Paul VI didn't exhume a corpse to put it on trial because he hated the guy in life etc. Some one-off occurrence centuries ago is not really a valid point of contention to the current office and it's holder.
Also, what do you believe Catholics believe infallibility to mean?
>>1116415
>one-off occurrences
You have to be kidding me, it was a fundamental part of the policy of many Popes
I believe they mean it without flaw in dogma
>>1116421
You don't sound very Christian
>>1116448
Oh, so now I'm in the wrong because that's all I see?
>>1116454
I don't know, it depends on your area. All I know is that you don't sound Christian at all.
>>1116468
>All I know is that you don't sound Christian at all.
Oh cut that bullshit out. I'm as Christian as most people here.
>>1116483
I don't know Christian that is, all I know is that you aren't being very Christian at all.
>>1116507
I'm not the one that shits on unity.
>>1115259
Constantine, you back?
>>1116431
Citation? And try and go as recent as possible. Again, if a Pope in the 1100s declared himself emperor of the world but the ones in the 1900s don't it's not really valid anymore. In the case of the 1100's guy, definitely, just not more current Popes.
Sort of. What we believe it means is clergy, specifically Bishops and more specifically the Pope, cannot teach erroneous doctrines because the Holy Spirit won't allow it. The Paraclete will direct us as He sees fit for the development of our further understanding of God and Salavation. And once it comes to the point of understanding where, through the Spirit's guidance, we come to know a Truth, the Pope (also guided by the Spirit) will speak of this doctrine clearly and without error so that we may learn more about God and Salvation. However, this only pertains to doctrines so the can still fuck up in other matters. We have faith that the Holy Spirit will guard against our shepards leading the Church to ruin through its teaching, but not that we are exempt from attacks by the enemy. Just like how Israel was conquered and enslaved and lost so damn much but never were destroyed, so will the Church persevere against the Enemy's assault. The Gates of Hell can do damage to the Church, but never prevail against her. Every hole from a mortar in her walls is reinforced to resist the next shot, and when stronger rounds come, the defenses are increased thusly.
Making sense at all? Thinking I went a tad off topic at end there.
>>1116507
answer this pls >>1116380
>>1115842
>came down from heaven
You do realize that this implies that He entered our physical realm when the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to Him rather than having descended from the clouds, right?
>>1116507
The mere fact that you think "being Christian" is a certain type of acting reveals your lost nature.
>>1116121
>There have been Catholics since 325 AD
Not really, there's been Catholics since Saint Peter became the first pope, also, Catholic = Christian who's part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
>>1116300
For the third time, the real ark of the covenant that the earthly ark of the covenant is patterned after.
NOT MARY.
>>1115120
same fampai.
but i do it through nightly fap rituals, what about you?
>>1116317
What's a "Protestant"?
>>1116360
>Holy
>Orthodox
>Universal
>>1115259
>praying to her more than the Trinity
that's so "guy from the sect with mary icons plastering every inch of every church"
>>1116421
Yup.
>>1116650
No, of course not, because I am not a foolish polytheist/Mother Earth cultist.
Who do you think walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve?
>>1116669
Nope. Peter was never a pope, never the bishop of Rome, and called Rome "Babylon".
>>1115098
What if Mary
Was in the club
>>1116421
This.
Catholicism is truly universal, from italians to irish to americans to hispanics to filipinos to koreans and everyone inbetween. A non-balkan or slav Orthodox is a needle in a haystack.
>>1116707
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:18-19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE
Who destroyed the Whore of Babylon? Babylon did, which was pagan Rome. Babylon is a code name for Rome, which symbolized sexual and immoral excess. Revelation 17:16 says that the ten horns (symbolizing the rulers of pagan Rome) will destroy the whore by fire, which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And then Revelation 17:14 says that the Lamb will conquer them both. This happened in the 4th Century, when Constantine became the first Christian emperor of Rome, who stopped all of the religious persecutions of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. Constantine built the Vatican directly on top of the tomb of St. Peter, on Vatican Hill, outside the city of Rome.
>>1116724
This, the word even comes from the greek ''katholikos'' meaning ''universal''.
''Orthodox'' schismatics are delusional. I love their chants though.
>And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Mark 13:10
>He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.''
Mark 16:15
>>1116727
Petros is not the petra.
The Whore of Babylon is not destroyed until the tribulation.
Pagan Rome = Catholic Pagan Rome
Same.
>>1116804
>Petros is not the petra.
Pic related is what Jesus Christ actually said.
ctrl+f: ''0p0k'' or ''Keepa''
http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/Mattich16.pdf
It's an obvious wordplay and whoever denies it is being dishonest.
>Pagan Rome = Catholic Pagan Rome
There is no such thing as ''Catholic Pagan Rome''.
You are delusional.
>>1116317
All protestants? Seriously?
>>1116812
You keep saying that as though there were some written record in Aramaic.
There is not.
The inspired writer of the gospel made a clear distinction between Peter and petra. In fact, because there is such a clear distinction in the written record, which is more reliable than your presumed oral record, Petros is excluded from being the petra.
And indeed Jesus is the foundation of the church, not Peter. Jesus is the Rock, and not Peter.
>>1116822
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:18-19
He is talking to Saint Peter.
You're only fooling yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE
It's hilarious to me how no amount of whining will change the fact that Saint Peter was, in fact, the first pope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century
>>1116822
>as though there were some written record in Aramaic
This doesn't matter. Jesus Christ spoke aramaic and actually said ''(You are) Keepa (and on this) Keepa (I will build my Church''.
>>1116822
>Also I say I to you that you are Keepa (Cephas) and on this Keepa (Cephas) I will build my Church and the gates of Sheol not will subdue it. You are a rock, and upon this rock will I build my Church and the gates of Sheol not will subdue it.
Petros (Πέτρος) and petra (πέτρᾳ) are the Greek equivalent to the Syriac Cephas which means "rock", and there is no difference at all between Petros and petra.
To better understand what Christ meant, St. Basil elaborates:
>Though Peter be a rock, yet he is not a rock as Christ is. For Christ is the true unmoveable rock of himself, Peter is unmoveable by Christ the rock. For Jesus doth communicate and impart his dignities, not voiding himself of them, but holding them to himself, bestoweth them also upon others. He is the light, and yet 2. You are the light: he is the Priest, and yet he 3. maketh Priests: he is the rock, and he made a rock.
—Basil li. De poenit. cƒ. Matt. v. 14 ; Luke 22:19
In reference to Peter's occupation before becoming an Apostle, the popes wear the Fisherman's Ring, which bears an image of the saint casting his nets from a fishing boat. The keys used as a symbol of the pope's authority refer to the "keys of the kingdom of Heaven" promised to Peter.[Matt. 16:18-19] The terminology of this "commission" of Peter is unmistakably parallel to the commissioning of Eliakim ben Hilkiah in Isaiah 22:15-23. Peter is often depicted in both Western and Eastern Christian art holding a key or a set of keys.
Though the authenticity of this account has been challenged, the general consensus is that these are Jesus' words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Matthew_16:18
>>1116866
Anti-Catholics will NEVER change these facts
>>1116822
But Jesus is in Heaven.
>>1116676
Semen offerings are ok.
>>1117056
>fapping to Maria
Dude no.
>>1116545
>To all things innovated and enacted contrary to the Church tradition, teaching, and institution of the holy and ever-memorable fathers, or to anything hence-forth so enacted, ANATHEMA.
>To those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ’s Church is divided into so‑called “branches” which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all “branches” or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and Eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, ANATHEMA.
-Athamas proclaimedannually during Procession of the the Liturgy of the Sunday of Orthodoxy
>>1116554
Yes, but now I must bid you adieu again, it's fast o' clock.
>>1116697
With Divine Liturgy, heaven and earth are united, and the icons represent the saints worshiping with us, whom we treat with respect and love. Not the same as devoting 90% of our prayer to one of them or saying any one of them is the mediator between us and God, or saying one is the co-redeemer with Christ.
>>1117255
Who broke from Rome.
I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Rome.
>>1116724
>Catholicism is truly universal, from italians to irish to americans to hispanics to filipinos to koreans and everyone inbetween.
So literally western latins(funny how the penetration of catholicism worldwide correlates pretty closely to the borders of the hispanic empires), irish and some countries and lands for whom the papacy had a part in their formation(hungarians, poles, some german states that sided with the Pope, not the HR Emperor).
Can we stop the retarded "muh ethnic club" crap? We both have places we gained(greeks went eastward, latins westward), places we traditionally stood on, and places we lost(catholic titular dioceses exist in North Africa, the birthplace of St. Augustine himself, while orthodox ones are in Anatolia, of St. George and Nicholas fame).
>>1117354
No you jackass, it means it spread outwards while the Orthodox Church has done nothing but become stagnant.
>>1117371
>No you jackass, it means it spread outwards
Again, those great new places are mostly portugese and spanish lands, just as the East got to places under the russian crown.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_titular_sees
>>1117388
Okay...? It still spread farther than Orthodoxy.
>>1117405
Are you saying colonialism is bad? Sorry all I still fucking see for Orthodox is fucking Slavs and Greeks. This isn't "ethnic" if it's all I see.
>>1117413
I think you know what I'm saying. converting people primarily by conquest doesn't make you more "universal" than Islam is.
>>1117431
>he actually wants people to be damned to hell for not following God
Dude what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>1117433
>eastern latins
The fuck is an Eastern Latin. The only Arabs I see are Catholic, because the people that come here are Catholic, and are from the Lebanese Church or the Chaldean Church (which are in communion with Rome)
>>1117436
>he actually wants to convert people by the sword to an Apostate Church
>>1117454
By peace or by force these people will believe in God.
>said the religion that walked away from the Church and has done nothing but start shit with the west and piss everyone off
>>1117445
>The fuck is an Eastern Latin.
Pic related.
>The only Arabs I see are Catholic
Antiochian see, dude.
Get off your high horse.
>>1115098
What does this have to do with humanities?
>>1117457
We're not the ones who triggered a reformation by refusing to translate our Bible and charging for sacrements
>>1117460
>Romanians
So just slavs with gypsies.
>Antiochian see, dude.
So Turks, who aren't Arabs.
>>1117469
>We're not the ones who triggered a reformation by refusing to translate our Bible and charging for sacrements
Fuck'em, protestants are heretics who are damned to hell.
>>1117483
>tfw this is what Catholics repeat over and over instead "Have mercy on me, the sinner", and, "all others will saved, I alone shall be condemned"
>>1117473
>So just slavs with gypsies.
You could have been smart and talked about roman-catholic influence among vachs in the early centuries, which would have been a fascinating subject.
But yeah, that would have also proved that cathortodox spheres of influence are formed from roman and greek missionaries carving their own fiefdoms outside of the Roman Empire, which proves my point, so yeah.
>So Turks
No, orthodox turks are gagauz:)
Well, that Constantine tripfag seems a bit odd.
How long has he been posting on /his/?
>>1117492
They started shit, why should they be saved when they could of acted right and did it the right and proper way, like not being a total autistic fit and go over to the Vatican and kindly, and I mean fucking kindly not act like a total cunt to the Pope and ask him to stop the charging money to letting people leave purgatory early.
>>1117504
>You could have been smart and talked about roman-catholic influence among vachs in the early centuries, which would have been a fascinating subject.
I don't care. Because this isn't the fucking topic of the thread. All I know is that the people I see in Michigan, in the county of Genesee, are slavs, greeks, and russians that are all Orthodox.
>>1117526
>like not being a total autistic fit and go over to the Vatican and kindly, and I mean fucking kindly not act like a total cunt to the Pope and ask him to stop the charging money to letting people leave purgatory early.
Actually he did, and it woud have remained a letter flamewar between monks, if Rome didn't try to kill his ass.
>>1117543
>went full autistic and fucking nailed it to the door of the Church
Yeah no, fucker acted like a cunt.
>>1117508
She quit for a long time because she was outed a girl and people started waifuing her.
>>1117637
>she
Bullshit.
>>1117473
>romanians
>slavs
you consider brits german?
>>1115758
well protestants are indeed heathen fucks
>>1117280
>Not the same as devoting 90% of our prayer to one of them
I don't remember you being one for absurd hyperbole. A little disappointed, not gonna lie.
>>1115120
dirty heretic
>>1117056
alright, good to know.
it's an odd feeling knowing she's looking down on me with disgust and embarrassment, but that only makes it hotter.
>>1116677
the heathen sects that came after Martin Luther couldn't get his way
>>1117056
>fapping to the holy virgin Mary
Disbanding the Inquisition was a mistake
>>1117483
this
>>1117850
Actually you are just projecting your desire to have a girlfriend to do the same to you upon the Theotokos. You had committed a grave act of sin for this.
I have a fetish of getting chastised by my girlfriend for my lewd and pervy thoughts about her.
Then I realized, only God can grant this.
So everyday in church I pray and trust like Abraham trusted God that Issac would somehow live.
>>1117891
i have a girlfriend though, anon.
but i do like to keep my religious life and romantic life separate. she must never find out about my nightly offerings to the mother of god.
>>1117876
>G-d can violate logic and be several things and one
Saadia Gaon: "He has the ability to do all things, but that which you mentioned - that is not a thing; it is an absurdity, and an absurdity is not anything."
Man knows G-d through the Torah. In it, our relationship with Him is contracted into a quid pro quo relationship where His commandments are obeyed in order for a divine dwelling on earth to be created, and mankind to experience and understand G-d. The laws of logic and the laws of Torah limit how we understand G-d, and hence the descriptions it contains make the infinite knowable by the finite.
Thus, we know that G-d is one. We know that He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
Basically, you're saying G-d can violate His Torah.
Rambam says "He is the Knower, He is the Subject of Knowledge, and He is the Knowledge [the torah i.e. the teaching] itself."
G-d cannot be more powerful than Himself, as that is a meaningless statement.
>G-d is not constrained by being
Can Jesus be considered existent then?
Should I filter "G-d"?
>>1117934
Masturbating to the Theotokos is wrong. It's like masturbating to your own mother. That's wrong and outright gross.
Please stop.
I hope also that the Theotokos will intercede on my behalf so that I can have a qt gfriend that will make me her cute cat :3
>>1115120
>implying that is what what Catholics believe
>>1117980
it makes me feel like nothing else in this world, though. i know it's wrong but it feels so right.
and maybe the theotokos can make you HER cute cat...
>>1117492
Catholic believe that too, dipshit.
Heretics are blasphemers everywhere in this thread. You're all going to hell.
>>1117547
>Formal invitation to debate on the power and efficacy of indulgences, either in person or through letter
>autistic
Well meme'd
>>1118638
not me tho
>>1117980
>Masturbating to the Theotokos is wrong. It's like masturbating to your own mother.
JesusxMary doujins when?
![1459216867_O2FXe07hRwg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1FQYciH.jpg "1459216867_O2FXe07hRwg[1].jpg")
>>1115098
protestantfags will not pray to the Holy Mother (*alongside the Holy Father)
pretty much heresy
>>1118658
>literally nailing his shitposts on the door of a Church
>not autistic and a shitposter on par with tripfags
Nice.
>>1116866
They're not facts at all. They're claims the Whore of Babylon makes to exert authority over you, and to place themselves as God to you.
They're false.
The inspired Greek text takes great pains to make sure you know that Peter is not the foundation; that Jesus is.
Petros is a man's name, and masculine in form.
petra is not; it's a feminine word, and means rock or cliff.
If you think Peter is the Rock, you are sadly mistaken, and a slave of Rome.
This is the foundation:
"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," (Matt. 16:16). This is consistent with Scripture elsewhere where the term rock is sometimes used in reference of God but never of a man.
Deut. 32:4, "The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice."
2 Sam. 22:2-3, "The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; 3 My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge."
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
>>1116872
You'll know them for lies from the lake of fire when it becomes painfully obvious to you that you do not know God, and He does not know you.
>>1116895
Yes, and He's still the head of the body:
Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
>>1117811
Anyone worshiping Mary to this extent is a heathen.
>>1117858
So, a catholic schism having nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.
>>1117872
The blood of 68,000,000 innocents not enough to sate your bloodlust?
>>1117950
There's nothing in the torah by which a man might know the living God personally.
>>1120286
I know the truth, yes. And I'm not joking in the slightest.
Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
>>1120290
And I know the truth that those "innocent" weren't innocent at all, boy.
>>1120294
Yes, they all refused to bow the knee to Rome.
Which to Babylon is a death sentence.
And why I believe in eternal justice:
Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, And You have given them blood to drink. For it is their just due.”
>>1120296
>to Rome
Horseshit, boy. They were degenerates that said fuck Christ and said blasphemous shit, like you.
>>1120300
Exactly the opposite. They were Christians who refused to bend the knee to Rome, and were killed as "heretics".
As I said, your time will come.
>>1120304
>They were Christians who refused to bend the knee to Rome, and were killed as "heretics".
No they weren't, if they are heretics then they are heretics. Get this through your head.
>>1116866
the Roman Catholic Church says that the rock cannot refer to Jesus "but only Peter--as is so much more apparent in Aramaic in which the same word (Kipha) is used for 'Peter' and 'rock.'" The problem is that the text is not in Aramaic but Greek. Since we do not have the Aramaic text, it is not proper to refer to it as proof of the Roman Catholic position. We have to ask ourselves why the Roman Catholic Church would resort to using something that we don't have: the Aramaic text. Is it because their argument is not supported by the Greek and so they must infer something from a text we don't possess?
Furthermore, in John 1:42 it says, "He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "You are Simon the son of John; you shall be called Cephas," (which is translated Peter)." The word "Peter" here is petros--not petra. It is used to elucidate the Aramaic kephas which is not a name in Aramaic.
"Except in Jn. 1:42, where it is used to elucidate Aramaic kēphás, Pétros is used in the NT only as a name for Simon Peter . . . The translation supports the view that Kēphás is not a proper name, since one does not usually translate proper names."
>>1120306
Yes, to the Whore of Babylon, they were heretics as they refused to bend the knee to Rome.
>>1120310
>said the fag that panders to the Jews
>said the fag that panders to the faggots who ruined the west, ruined the culture
>said the cultist man who jerks off to his fantasies of how "Babylon" is real
You're a goddamn demon.
>>1120318
1 Peter 5:13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.
>>1120324
>1 Peter 5:13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.
You know who the whore of Babylon is, correct? It's you. It's your horseshit preaching, it's your lies and swilling that tries to corrupt the people here.
>>1120328
The Whore of Babylon is Mystery Babylon, and Rome is Babylon:
And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.
“Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.....
Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
>>1120342
All in Revelation 17.
Which is in the bible.
Which you can find for free online.
>>1120342
>said the fag who worships, who spews shit about the whore of babylon
>and keeps spamming the fucking thread
>>1120350
Projecting much?
>>1120375
Not as much as you in this thread.
>>1120270
>Mary
>Divine
>implying
>>1120261
At least when the Orthodox disagree, they just disagree. You don't see them spouting some BS apocalyptic conspiracy shit to try and scare others into trading factions.
>>1120504
Yes, why rely on the bible at all.
>>1120509
>said the projecting cunt
>somebody bit the protestcuck's bait
>>1120697
>implying he didn't spam the thread with his bullshit
>>1120707
come on, he's easy to spot
ignore (or report?) and move on
>>1120715
Yup. Everywhere you read the truth, I was there.
>>1120715
I have good reasoning that the fucker is a janitor, or a shitty mod.
>>1120270
>shitpostin
>>1120722
You probably think Kenneth Hagin is a genius.
Retard.
>>1121104
The shitposter ain't right in the head. Just report/hide
>>1121114
>Stop believing what I don't believe.
>>1121124
If you
>keep spamming the thread
Then you're shitposting. I don't fucking care. This ain't /pol/.
>>1121124
>stop believing shit that came about solely out of muckraking Catholics and only has biblical presedence because of vocabulary
>literally the same as calling all Asians "Dog-eating Yellow Mongol Chinamen who bombed Pearl Harbor and killed my buddy in 'Nam!"
>>1115098
What did he mean by this?
>>1121568
You mean Tim Staples?
