Realistically, how good was the Republic of Venice at War throughout its history? At its high point could it have been characterized as a military superpower for its time period? Obviously they were much more capable Navally, but what about land forces? Why did they end up losing to the Ottoman Empire so much when they engaged, despite performing incredibly well against other forces? Pic related.
>>1099925
Venice is historically a failed state, it was born from escaping to the swamps from the germanics who overran rome and much of italy.
>>1099943
delete this
>>1099925
You tend to not want to mess with its Navy for one thing. Also among the Italian city states, they had a proud tradition of civic militias fighting for their state.
Unfortunately they bit the Mercenary Meme and their ground forces declined because of it.
>>1099925
the ottoman empire at that point can basically throw men at them and still won, their manpower is insane. venice army performed well in italian wars
>>1099925
>Why did they end up losing to the Ottoman Empire so much when they engaged
Because the Ottomans were literally the best. There's a reason it took every Catholic country east of Germany to stop them.
>>1100084
>Unfortunately they bit the Mercenary Meme and their ground forces declined because of it.
This is bullshit. The average Venetian wasn't going to fight Turks because some Senator wanted a shiny new place or ten minutes of fame. Mercenaries are the only people who could've fought Venice's battles.
>>1100119
>Bullshit
This wasn't the case of Earlier Benis. Medieval Cunts say that the place resembled ancient Rome or Greeks because of the whole citizen-soldier thing.
The mercenaries came much later.
>>1100125
This is just Venetian self-congratulation. The thetic democracy that made Athens a major military power was impossible in Venice. Wanting to be Greek and Roman was the purpose of the Renaissance, but in practice they could never create the same attitudes. The only real citizen army after the Romans was Revolutionary France.
>>1100084
>Unfortunately they bit the Mercenary Meme
It's not like they had any choice: if you routinely have to fight countries, as opposed to mere city states, you'll start to need much more manpower than what a single city can give you.
>>1099925
>Why did they end up losing to the Ottoman Empire so much when they engaged, despite performing incredibly well against other forces?
Have you tried to compare sizes? The ottomans routinely threw at the venetians many times as many men.
>>1099925
That one navy battle I can't remember the name is often considered as one of the most important navy battle in history.
>>1100358
Lepanto?
INB4 ottoboos start talking about how the fleet was rebuilt quick, ignoring that the empire became navally irrelevant from then on
>>1099925
>Why did they end up losing to the Ottoman Empire so much when they engaged
I wonder, op.
>>1099925
Is it pretty accurate to say that they and Other Republics in North Italy created Mordern Day Capitalism?
>>1100369
Imagine being some medieval ruler in the Balkans with your 10,000 man army and having the Ottomans show up with their 200,000 people. Probably the scariest moment in a man's life.
>>1100363
Yes, thank you.
From what I've read it put a stop to Ottoman expansion in Europe and effectively ruined their naval interests.
>>1100377
>Cyprus
>Balkans
>>1100119
>Because the Ottomans were literally the best
topkek
>>1099925
A failed country through and through. They backstabbed the Byzantines for 3 centuries and then almost got themselves conquered by the Ottomans.
Just greedy and stupid people.
>Why did they end up losing to the Ottoman Empire so much
>Why did a city state lose to an Empire
You just answered your own question
>>1100455
Eh it's not like the ottos went any easier on the balkans either you know. For all their advantages, the turks did go zerg rush as often as they could.
>>1100484
>They backstabbed the Byzantines
You can't backstab someone who has betrayed you already, stupid.
>>1100363
>navally irrelevant from then on
>cyprus conquered
>ottoman naval supremacy still unchallenged for 30 years
How the hell managed a city to be relevant for almost a millenium?
Imagine London being independent and a country. That's the same.
>>1100486
>turk rush
>>1100949
>How the hell managed a city to be relevant for almost a millenium?
11 centuries actually. 697-1797
Also it started out as a city, but by the time it fell it controlled a territory about the same size as the modern Netherlands, and just about as economically developed (tho it went to shit after the austrians took over), so it's not really that surprising.
>>1100949
The UK is basically London surrounded by rednecks and depressing deindustrialized shitholes. Wouldnt change much
>>1100981
Genoa was the same, wasn't it?
>>1100981
Thanks for finishing it, based Napoleon
>Venice was their own country
>Genoa was their own country
>Naples and Sicilia were first Spain, then their own country
>Milan was first Spain, then Germany
Was Italian the language of these countries?
>>1100994
No. Genoa topped much much smaller and weaker, and they were under various levels of foreign control for most of their history. In fact, the only reason they managed to retain a hint of relevance after Venice rekt them, was by associating themselves with the spanish crown as government bankers.
>>1101011
>Was Italian the language of these countries?
No. They each had their local romance language.
After the renaissance, official shit started to be influenced by the unifying intellectual movements and it started approaching the florentine variety more, but the people's language didn't. In fact neapolitan and venetian are still basically a different language from italian and they are remarkably close to their middle ages versions.
>>1100139
France had a large standing army since Louis XIV
>>1101042
It's not that surprising. The republic always inspired a remarkably strong level of national unity and patriotism in its catholic lands, and was also fairly culturally homogeneous. Naples on the other hand was just a piece of a larger and not that homogeneous borderline feudal kingdom that changed owner every other century.
Also about the current independentist movements, you have to consider the economic situation is the opposite: Veneto is a cash cow for Italy, whereas Naples is a black hole. An independent Venice within the EU would see its economy boom, an independent Naples would crash worse than Greece.
>>1100987
London is basically a few nice parts in the centre surrounded by Muslim caliphates, black ghettos and Polish enclaves.
