I don't have faith in God, but I have faith that, if there is a God, he wouldn't get mad at me over something as petty as belief.
Is this a form of valid faith?
>>1231777
No.
sage, report, hidden
>>1231777
I think you already know all the answers you're going to get from the boards theists.
>>1231777
You expect god not to be mad at you for not believing you exist? You're either retarded or an asshole. If the Christian God exists, then this entity is a person, it is a jealous person who has given everything good in your life as well as creating an environment for everything bad in your life. In short, it the Christian god exists, he has had the most impact on your life, more than anyone else you've ever known.
How many of your friends and family would tolerate you thinking that they didn't exist? I'll bet none.
Why do you expect that this jealous god would tolerate such behavior forever?
>>1231777
No.
>>1233701
You've convinced me that even if Jesus is some sort of spirtual being he is not the creator of the universe. No higher life form would be as petty, shallow, and insecure as you describe him.
The theists have defeated themselves once again
>>1233701
Does God shitpost on /his/, or does he do it by proxy through retards like you?
>>1231777
That's the kind of thing that leads to an eternity of torment.
Unbelief is the only unforgiven and unpardonable sin, and you're brashly committing it.
Sounds like you're just trying to cover your ass and make yourself feel better. So no.
>>1233792
That's the problem with people like you. You never meet Jesus, but constantly form opinions on what He's like. And your opinions of Him suck.
>>1233875
>I've met Jesus!!!
*rolls eyes*
>>1233872
Actually that would be mocking the Holy Casper.
>>1233878
Yes, at least a billion people have. And billions more know who He is, to their horror. People like you, who never took the time to meet their Creator and find out what He wanted from them.
>>1233882
Kind of. The Holy Casper, as you say, is the witness telling you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
If you say Jesus is not the Christ, the Son of the Living God, you are calling the HC a liar.
By calling the HC a liar, you say He is doing the work of the devil.
That is blasphemy of the HC, and it doesn't end well.
Logically, there are several religions with strong claims that have survived for thousands of years.
If God's approach to humanity is through conventional religion, there is simply no conclusive case to build a life upon.
Even if you decided that Christianity is the true religion, you'd still have to select between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, and their differences which are rooted in history and complex theological issues. And note that only one of these can be true, since they both claim to descend from Christ exclusively.
Through further study you'll also find a thousand other philosophically viable systems of monotheism. There is simply no rationally convincing choice for a divine law-giver,
Personally, I'm an overall Aristotelian in my metaphysics, and I think the man said everything that can be said about God without invoking spiritual claims. Also, all Abrahamic religions have based their concept of God on Aristotle anyway.
>>1233899
He is a liar though;
>>1233893
Go on then, show me the photos of these billions of people with Jesus.
>>1233893
You mean a billion where born to people who where born to people who where born to people who where born to people who where to people who where born to people who where born to people who where born to people, who told them to BELIVE.
>>1233899
>The Holy Casper,
>the HC
Ha ha. You just committed the unpardonable sin.
>>1233937
That sort of belief carries a price tag you cannot pay.
>>1233944
No beliefs here my friend, only facts.
>>1233938
Photos.....of heaven.
Photos.....of every single Christian on earth.
kek
The funny thing to me is that even with those photos, you still wouldn't believe.
>>1233940
And if they were wise, they did.
>>1233941
kek
God has a better sense of humor than you give Him credit for.
>>1233947
Your "fact" is the unpardonable sin.
Your "fact" is a lie from the pit of hell.
>>1233948
>Photos.....of heaven.
Well yes, exactly.
>>1233960
That's just like, your opinion, man, pretty sure that nigger is a compulsory liar.
>>1233960
I've never even been to Weston-Super-Mare.
Now, I already blasphemed the holy ghost.
I guess that means priests wouldnt bother baptising me anymore because I blew it?
>>1233948
This is one of the worst theist arguments out there,
Most people wouldn't actually require earth-shattering incredible miracles to believe in Christianity. There's all sorts of appearances of God and his servants through the Bible that would convince reasonable people,
If the angel Gabriel appeared before me at this moment and told me to follow the true strand of Christianity, I'd convert on the spot.
If there was multiple, confirmed camera recordings of an angel descending from heaven in a public place, I'd also convert,
Fact: God has an incredible chance to convert the entire world via the means of modern media. If his agenda is to save everyone, why has he not done this? It's not blasphemy to question basic motives of beings with unconvincing historical evidence.
>>1233951
Kek.
>>1233988
What about the toast miracle seen by millions?
>>1234191
I like you.
>>1231777
Read Romans 1
It's pretty interesting KJV
>>1233988
He doesn't do that because FAITH. He has showed himself to some people and told them to share their story so others would believe and they still don't
>>1233988
That's simply not true. Thousands of people were fed miraculously by Jesus, and a week later, they're demanding He be crucified.
Noah told his neighbors for a hundred years that a Flood was coming, and nobody but Noah's family was saved.
Paul, the greatest apostle of Christianity, the man likely seated at the right hand of Jesus Christ, died alone.
You have not yet come to grips not only with your own depravity, but with the total depravity of mankind.
>>1231804
True, but what interests me is the nuances of their condemnation, not the general fact of it.
>>1233875
Everyone does this, especially the Christian theologians who have been debating what he really meant since before the council of Nicea.
>>1234353
Every lost person does.
No saved person needs to tell another saved person what Jesus is like.
>>1234365
> you just don't get it because you're lost
>"""saved""" people have """special knowledge"""
Then why have Christians been arguing about what Jesus was like and what he thought since time immemorial, sometimes going as far as to kill other Christians?
>>1231777
>presumption
No.
>>1234304
This is a history board, not a fantasy board.
>>1234381
These people lacked the divine spark.
>>1234392
Have you even looked at their beards?
They clearly had a divine spark.
>>1234389
Must be the greatest fantasy ever because more than a billion people believe it, it is historical, it happened and it's still here today.
>>1234405
I meant those who argued and killed each other of course, no person with a beard like that would ever lack the divine spark.
>>1234304
>Thousands fed
Conjecture. Why didn't Jesus just stop starvation right there? Why would the Roman government execute a man with unpredictable magic powers who could stop starvation and raise Roman standards of living?
>Noah told his neighbors a flood was coming
More conjecture, moverover a mesopotamian myth taken out of context.
> Paul died alone.
Probably true. And a damn shame. Doesn't back up anything you've said.
>likely seated at the right hand of yeshua
Yeshua died in Judea. Jeezus is a Roman propaganda tool to quell their uppity citizenry throughout the collapse of the empire.
>You have not yet come to grips not only with your own depravity, but with the total depravity of mankind.
Yeah I get it. Humankind is depraved, hypocritical, and in need of guidance. Doesn't mean pretending to accept conjecture on blind faith I don't actually have is a good idea. which would be intellectually dishonest to any potential Gods listening since I don't actually really believe they're there, even if I start going to church tomorrow.
Then again, people who claim their ideas aren't there own, but God's, are always right, even when they're arguing with each other.
Hell.
Especially when they're arguing with each other.
>>1234414
Yes, definitely keep this shit to yourself.
>>1234392
>These people lacked the magic woogie boogie powers to just unconditionally believe in crap they hear.
Yeah, It's pretty hard. I've been trying for years. I've probably typed more words to Christians than I'll ever speak, trying to understand how to believe when my brain just won't let me.
Maybe the Calvanist determinists are right.
>>1234381
>time immemorial
Your point was ok without the display of shitty vocabulary choice. There was recorded time before people argued the nature of Jesus. I'm not picking on you that much, though. Here, have a cartoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0IQA5OUAA
>>1234427
It's your arrogant pride of life you have to let go of first.
>>1234427
>calvinist determinists
You mean monergism. I think it's right.
God - "i created you with no actual proof of my personal existence. Now, If you dont believe that i exist despite that lack of evidence, im going to torture you for eternity"
>>1234411
More than a billion people believe Hanuman the Monkey God is real.
>>1234411
You mean like Islam?
>>1234584
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
Romans 1:20 KJV
>>1234596
And how many times has Hanuman the Monkey God revealed himself to people or did miracles in his name?
>>1234584
God - Mornin' Adam and Eve. Nice day for a walk. Let's talk a bit.
You - agunba balunga mufhhkehhkkehiie.
>>1234389
History is His Story.
>>1234602
"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." Surah An-Nisa 4:171
>>1234601
Islam is a direct opponent of Christianity and a perversion. Pagan God and prophet created by followers because they want to sin and not follow the rules of the true faith. When I hear about a person coming back from death or being healed by Muhammad or his saints then will talk about Islam.
>>1234381
Lost people do.
Saved people don't.
Jeremiah 31
A New Covenant
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Your problem is you can't tell the difference, because you're lost.
>>1234614
Straight out of those super corny American Protestant adverts. Literally threw up
>>1234615
Fuck pisslam.
>>1234617
And a Muslim would say the exact same thing about Christianity. He would call the trinity a form of shirk and tell you to start praying towards Mecca, where the final revelation was revealed by god Himself
>>1234620
People stole my meme??? And are getting paid for it???
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>1234621
>being this much of an infidel
>>1234621
Great argument
>>1234625
And any person with any knowledge whatsoever would show the muslim where the qur'an says the bible is the Word of God, that Jesus is the Word of God, that Jesus is the Messiah, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that Jesus ascended alive into heaven, and then show them this verse right here:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
When the "b-but the bible has been corrupted" taqiyya starts flowing, you just ask for examples.
Islam, and Mohammad, are accursed, according to the Word of God, which the qur'an says is the Word of God.
What's that picture?
>>1233701
Why would a perfect being experience jealousy?
>>1234625
But they don't because they can't. They go out of their way even in their "holy book" to disapprove of Jesus then say yeah he's great. I've heard of many instances where Muslims were converted because Jesus came to them or healed them but not once have I heard Muhammad healed anyone or came to them to convert them to Islam
>>1234636
And anyone with knowledge of the Bible will show you that the original was written by the Jews, who don't really buy your whole Messiah stuff
>>1234642
Even in their og they basically say Jesus is the one but they still deny him just like scripture said
>perfect beings
>experiencing anything that isn't all things at all times
>doing anything
Maximum overkek.
>>1231777
no and let me help you out here. Imagine if you were at the pub with three people in it and you were talking to one of them. You are telling that man a fact but one that is not observable (ie like a force, or energy) and that man out right refuses the truth saying that because he cant see the subject it either doesn't exist or doesn't effect him. The third man in the pub was minding his own business and did not here your discussion and did not hear the fact. The man who rejected this fact looks like a crazy person while the man who never heard of this will look simple or under educated? In the eyes of a supreme being once you know of him you must worship him and give some form of reverence or respect while (at least in christian tradition) the person who never hears of the god is guiltless.
>>1234641
>I've heard of many instances where Muslims were converted because Jesus came to them or healed them but not once have I heard Muhammad healed anyone or came to them to convert them to Islam
And again, I can come up with plenty of Christians who will tell you that they were in fact totally wrong about old Mo and his book
>>1234647
They actually don't. If they were, they probably wouldn't remain Jews
>>1234654
This nigga got shit in his beard.
>>1234654
Yeah but did Muhammad or Allah come to convert him? It's different when people did it on their own versus divine intervention. I don't know anything about Islam, would you like to tell me about it honestly? Like values laws and rules. I need to understand more
>>1234673
>Yeah but did Muhammad or Allah come to convert him?
I'm going to guess yes.
>>1234639
Why can't it?
>>1234675
Guess or know? What did he say in his book
>>1234682
He read the Quran, the word of God directly recited to Muhammed. That's what the word 'quran' means, it means a recitation.
>>1234688
Ok well that's a little different then. Are u Muslim
>>1234702
No, I'm just using your stock arguments and apply them to Islam
>>1234742
Why
>>1234752
To show that you don't accept your own arguments when they're applied to an Abrahamic religion that barely differs from your own
>>1234759
Differs from my own what? And what arguments haven't I accepted?
>>1234777
Jesus you're dense... seriously, it's a little mind-boggling after reading through your replies.
Not him but he's trying to educate you on the fact that biblical scripture is NOT and argument by demonstrating to you that you won't accept scripture from the holy book of another religion.
Basically: your scripture quoting has as much affect on an unbeliever as quoting scripture from the Quran has on you.
Do you understand now?
>>1234821
Oh I see I didn't understand the point he was making. I thought he was a Muslim not an unbeliever. It makes sense now. Thanks
>>1231777
What if God doesn't care?
Not about humanity, but about humanity's belief in him.
There's no argument I've heard of the Abrahamic God, with all the attributes given to him, that makes him anything resembling a human in thought. I'm a Christian, but I've noticed that we (and the fundies in particular) tend to do the ancient Greek thing of anthropomorphizing God, acting as if He's basically a bigger, older, stronger version of us.
But he's not, that's the point. He's supposed to be transcendent and eternal and all-knowing and omnipotent and everywhere at once. Christians reaffirm this constantly, I've yet to meet one who treats God as a physical entity sitting on a cloud somewhere, but then they go and treat God like he's not, like he would think and act like us.
But we're not God. Even if we achieved apotheosis somehow we still wouldn't be the same thing because we would have been human once, which might impact our actions, while He was always God.
A being like that has no reason to care about belief. If I plant a garden I don't give a fuck if the carrots are grateful for their existence. To an entity that spans all of space and time and is the sum of all knowledge and ability and whatnot, we must be dumber than carrots in comparison. No, I plant a garden because I like how gardens look and smell and because I want to see it blossom.
Maybe God's like that. Maybe He made us because he thought we're worth making, not because he needs a bunch of carrots singing him praises.
>>1234681
Because it's perfect, and a perfect being would have to be completely fulfilled by its own existence. Jealousy would imply an unfulfilled motive, which is something only an imperfect being would experience.
>>1234935
>anthropomorphizing God
Mankind supposedly was made in God's image though?
>>1234967
I'm aware of that, but it doesn't really make sense.
We can't both be made in God's image in any literal fashion and have God be this perfect eternal omnipresent omniscient entity we claim it is.
Best asspull explanation I could come up with is that it refers to our more intangible aspects, the things that differentiate us from frogs and fungi - creativity and adaptability and a sense of justice and the potential for growth and all the other things no other critter has in any comparable measure.
>>1235006
We're imperfect in an imperfect world. The more you grow spiritually, the more you feel restricted by these bodies, because we are meant for higher planes
>>1234445
What do you mean by that? I'm not sure how that would make it easier for me to believe unfalsifiable claims, whose merit can only occur to me *after* I've already begun believing (which is the very thing I have such difficulty doing, you see, it's not a matter of *just believing* I tried to do that when I was a kid, and didn't know shit, and found that difficult.
I believe a religious community to fall back on and take refuge in might make me better off but I would have to lie to them about what I think to be accepted.
And I don't think what they think. I try my best to wrap my head around it, and each time it just seems like techniques of indoctrination mixed with special pleading. That is not to say the person using them is aware of this or has malicious intent, it's just seems to me like a social system at work.
Belief is difficult for me to understand. I'm not even sure I know how to do it. I have hunches. I trust things, But I am unfamiliar with the 100% unwavering certainty that so many faiths seem to demand form me. All of them at odds with each other. All of them threatening hellfire and dangling heaven just out of reach. All I need to do is believe, but how? Each time I ask. I get "Believe what I believe. This thing happened. It is known." regardless of what perspective they're coming from. I ask for proof, and I get historical documents that have been translated countless times, over which wars have fought, the content of which most people never read cover to cover, let alone memorize, let alone internalize.
Tell me how to believe.
>>1234433
Yeah I realized my fuckup as soon as I hit post, of course.
Poo.
Thanks for the Bakshi.
>>1234619
>Lost people do.
> Saved people don't.
Which sects are lost, which ones are saved, and why?
>>1234845
So how do you *feel* about his point?
>>1233872
How can I commit unbelief when I never believed in the first place? No one ever indoctrinated me.
And I never quite was able to compel myself to believe in claims, in spite of the promised rewards, let alone repeat those claims to others in spite of my not fully believing them.
>>1234681
Because Envy is one of the seven sins.
>>1234935
Thanks bro, you've helped my Soul Fly
>Yea i know your life was characterized by love and compassion for your fellow man and you left the world a better place than when you entered it, but you chose not to believe in me so enjoy your eternity of unimaginable torture before I finally toss you in the lake of fire and eliminate you from existence entirely.
Yes this is definitely a God worth loving.
>>1234967
>it"s a "torture one of my subjects mercilessly in order to settle a bet with my rowdy roommate" episode
>>1236327
whoops, meant for >>1236273
>>1234304
Jews are fucking hard headed cunts
>>1233974
>"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept His mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
CCC 1864
>>1234244
>KJV
lol
>>1236234
Nice meme.
>>1236414
That sends essentially the same message. The first quote wasn't really claiming there were no gods.
>>1231777
Knowing God, Jesus for that matter doesn't coincide with this question anon.
The love and compassion Jesus has for you, the thoughts God has of and for you, it's known by way of being apart of a relationship.
You're perspective is like asking if you believe in your mother or father. Do you believe in them? Or do you have a relationship with them?
Getting to God and to Jesus Christ so you can get this relationship, you really have to dig deep in his word obviously.
This isn't possible with pride in your heart, or I should say it's far more difficult to do with pride in the heart. To humble yourself among the fact that there is a creator to all, our God and Jesus Christ, humbling yourselves to the idea that there is in fact something more brilliant and beyond our understanding....that knows the thing you will never know, that's where God and Jesus are.
But the war for the soul is real. How many times have you seen Christians or Catholics come off as hypocrites? More hostile than encouraging or uplifting? Pretty often. The task is tall for everyone to act right. But Jesus tried to make the tall task an easier one to understand...
God gave 10 commandments, Jesus tried to make it lighter on people by boiling them all down to the first 2 commandments. Love your God and love your brother as you love yourself. Love your God because He loves you and because He loves your brother. So love your brother, you will never walk this earth without your brothers. So love them. When this becomes your walk, you're pretty much there. You see God's word in motion, it becomes more tangible.
Also if anyone ever finds themselves in a moment where they search for God and Jesus Christ and decide to take a peek and read.
Remember that it's always the over all context to take into consideration. Think of how diseases spread. One little form of destruction has the potential to spread and destroy the whole.
So when you ask yourself how can a loving God have wrath? Remember the priority is all the sheep. And if you read about God's wrath and forget to stay above the over all context and become offended at the idea of a creator expressing wrath, keep reading. His mercy is always everlasting and his wrath is always lifted.
As it says in proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
>>1231777
I don't believe in God, but I have faith in a very particular part of his personality in regards to my disbelief in him
Fedoras I swear
>>1233940
>genetic fallacy
>>1236167
Believing is abandonning critical thinking, I don't know why you would want to do that unless you need some sort of support to fight addiction or a mental defect.
>>1236974
>So when you ask yourself how can a loving God have wrath? Remember the priority is all the sheep. And if you read about God's wrath and forget to stay above the over all context and become offended at the idea of a creator expressing wrath, keep reading. His mercy is always everlasting and his wrath is always lifted.
This stops making any sense as soon as you consider the fact that God is supposed to be omnipotent. It means that he doesn't have to bother with any correction or any choice between love or hate. He can just snap his fingers and no one would ever sin again. What you wrote about is a completely pointless exercise
>>1233940
>who told them to BELIVE.
I say I've had 3 moments in my life where I woke up outside of my body. I'm mocked or called a liar.
But that's 3 times. 3 times within a 5-7 year time period. Only 3 times compared to the thousands of dreams I have had. I tell you there's a discernible difference, a contrasting difference, a blatant difference mind you, between waking up in the morning to take a shower, having a dream, and waking up outside of my body. A blatant difference. A contrast and difference so blatant in each of those experiences that allows me to know what one is from the other. Someone tells you the Holy Spirit is real, because again, they felt it and recognized it and discerned it from the rest of their sensations.
My point is this, there are people who "believe" for reasons that are not "because someone told them to." There are people who believe because they have no choice. They know what it is.
But yeah, not everyone is a liar or talking out of their ass just because that's what you're either prone to seeing or because you simply just can't believe them. Just because the story of Christ managed to reach the masses, doesn't even mean everyone has believed throughout the years.
But for anyone to assume that the driving force behind all this is just a case of "creating an imaginary friend", especially with the plethora of testimonies, it's just crazy.
It's kind of ironic when you think about it, because these are the same people that ironically would have had to see the earth from space to believe it was round, when all you really had to do was study the over all context of your surroundings to figure out it wasn't flat. Now in the case of "God"...all you have to do is examine the world and it's people in it's over all context in relation to God's word and you can begin to see the real reason why people believe.
I love all my brothers, but I've been self righteous before. And one thing I hate more than being lied to, is when I lie to mysel
>>1237065
>tfw when god never presented itself to you and will let you rot in hell
>>1237041
Trust me, I hear you, but you're talking about taking force and making decisions for people. It's like a prince who's spoiled and given everything, instead of learning the genuine benefits.
If we we're given everything off the bat, basically corrected without discipline at every corner, would we be able to learn anything?
Plus this is all going to boil down to a discussion about good and evil and the fact they exist in the same arena so to speak. But as it's written, the perfect love casts out fear. And all the evil's stem from fear. Fear of lack, so you take, fear of losing stance in everything from physical ground, to how people percieve you which is caused by pride. The lengths people will go to defend this fear of what ever it is they are about to lose.
Its all fear. But again, as His word states...
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
>>1237099
That's not true at all bro.
All 3 of my out of body experiences I was tortured. 2 times physically, the last time it was physiologically. Imagine being chained to a log, that was slamming into other logs in a pitch dark room, never knowing when the next jarring, loud, smashing, sensation was going to come?
It sounds silly, but physically eperiencing as you're physically aware at this very moment, literally no different than how you feel right now, if not a sensation where things even more real then they normally do.
Dude it makes no sense to have to live through something like that, even it's for a split second. This was like 15 minutes that this just happened to me. In the moment, to the moment I got thrown back into my body. To be paralyzed as you struggle to open your eyes, as you feel the blood begin to flow back through your veins like when your leg falls asleep. Pens and needles, but your whole body feels like that x10. Feels like razor blades flowing through your veins as the blood travels to it's destination like when your leg or foot is trying to wake up after circulation has been slightly cut.
Absolutely terrifying and in the moment made no sense. Thought I was cursed or something, thought that if there was a God he hated me. I didn't know what to think.
But it took me a few years to understand what it all meant. What I was being shown. Basically it was this, when you're not on point, specifically spiritually. When you're stuck in anger and fear and unable to maintain yourself...you never know when that next jarring, smashing, terrible experience is going to come from. You're literally just going where the wind blows you.
But yeah, God's love is ever lasting. But you have to be able to accept it. You can't do that if you're always angry, sad, or blaming everything around you.
That's the significance of forgiveness and letting go. It allows you to shift your focus on love and look forward.
>>1237099
But yeah, I realize now God wasn't punishing me, it was in fact more like discipline. A wake up call. And it doesn't happen like that for everyone. Just remember to let go of any bs you have in your life. Let those who want to laugh, laugh, let those who want to be angry be angry and just keep it moving and forgive and love your bros.
>>1234421
Why? He is right, you know?
>>1234611
>God - Mornin' fellas that never actually existed. Nice day for a walk among your incestous rabbit-monsters you call your grandchildren. Let's talk a bit about things that doesn´t matter.
>(You) - agunba balunga mufhhkehhkkehiie.
>>1234636
One thing that always pisses me of with Christians and Muslims is that they never give any examples of original thought when speaking theology. Stop qouting some fucking lines from a book! Where´s your imagination, goddammit!
>"People who uses quotes ain´t shit!" ~ W. Churchill
>>1234636
>Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Uh oh. Galatians was written before the gospels that are in the New Testament.
It looks like Christianity refutes itself.
>>1236942
fake quote:
>YOLO xD
>pic related
actual quote:
>if atheists are right (they're wrong) we should kill ourselves
>>1237518
The Gospels were written before 70 AD.
>>1237809
I've noticed how much religious people like simply asserting falsehoods as true.
What makes you such liars?
>>1231777
Honestly OP, anything aside deism is a meme (understand organized religion with meme rules, written by bronze age farmers and pedophiles). All "evidence" religiousfags bring out in favour of their religion are, in fact, evidence for deism. Do as you please, the creator most probably doesn't give a fuck about you and your existence and you just disappear when you die, so there is that.
>>1237809
No this is wrong.
>>1236978
> I do have faith in God, and in addition to that I believe everything I hear about his personality from one cultural portal. I believe he is jealous and unreasonable, and has the means and the desire to torture me forever.
Abrahams I swear
>>1237809
There is no archeological evidence to support this, though it may be the case.
We, culturally speaking, seem to think that Yeshua didn't write anything directly, and that he relied on his messengers, his friends, and his culture to transcribe what he said.
After he died, everyone he knew was on the run, and had work to do and lives to live, and so can be excused for taking four decades to get around to writing a work as monumental as the Gospels in at time where most people were illiterate.
On top of that Jews, and therefore the early Christians were living through a diaspora where they became scattered from each other and separate throughout the Roman empire.
This means that Early Christianity took many forms and was practiced in many ways that, once it became the status quo, had to be reconciled.
These things were reconciled under the supervision of a pagan emperor and a council of bishops who kept back-stabbing each other.
>>1231777
>Is this a form of valid faith?
Yes, called Stoicism. Congrats, you are smart.
>>1231777
Your going to hell mate if you don't believe in God
At least believe in God and be grateful you can skip the rest and go with the three ... Well 2 either Christian or Islam Judaism won't except you
>>1238545
>He thinks this is what Marcus Aurelius actually said
Hmmmmm.
I believe that Christianity is a way to God, and a damn good one, but if it ends up being the only way then I'll have to politely return the ticket to St. Peter come the appropriate time.
>>1231777
No. Faith can't be validated and can never be valid.
You can make guessess and make assumptions that maybe valid or not. For example, you could say I don't believe in existence of God but if he did, then he would be kind and gentle and loving because the world is full of goodness and has no evil and such.
Ofcourse this would be an invalid claim since the world is full of evil/suffering both manmade and otherwise disasters of epic proportions.
A reasonable claim would be "if he did exist, then he'd either be a apathetic one or some ineffible god that cant be described" this is a valid.
>>1238506
No it is not. Sorry not sorry.
>>1239636
You are wrong.
>>1241326
Citation please.
>>1238723
God exists, and is all good
Tip off fag
>>1237803
https://youtu.be/IEXJgkCCzks
>>1234291
Why does God value faith?
The only reason I can envision is he is faith-powered and will disappear if we stop believing in him.
But clearly he's supposed to be more powerful than that. And from my understanding He existed before there were people believing him. This is even more true if one takes cosmic and biological evolution into account. For the longest time, the only person around to believe in God was God himself.
So why would he value this belief in others?
I continue existing if people don't know I'm here. God allegedly continues existing if people don't know he's there.
Merit and reality seem independent of belief.
I could go into nuances of something called The Observer Effect in physics, and what it could mean about faith, but we don't know enough about O.E. yet to say much about it physically, let alone metaphysically.
>>1236993
I'm aware. I'm just questioning people who believe on the merit of belief itself, by asking them how I could go about believing if my actual physical brain, motivated by critical thinking, doesn't let me, since it doesn't wish to abandon reason, and finds doubt more valuable than faith.
I'm asking on what grounds is this even bad, and the answers I get are tenuous at best, of course.
>>1238506
The Gospel of Thomas maybe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#Date_of_composition
The normie gospels that the church canonized though, were written later.
>>1233988
(1/2)
I hear what you're saying. But knowing what I know now about God now, that He truly is all forgiving and merciful. That He doesn't wish for anyone to perish, I know there is something larger at play here in relation to your question and it's shrouded within the significance of free will. I'm sure there are men and women who have examined the shrouded area of that factor/question and can speak on it more thoroughly.
But also it's worth noting, that you're implying He's not speaking to the masses daily, even to non believers. It's just on deep levels of consciousness they are doubting and choosing not to believe. People form idea's and reasons AGAINST, the very idea or thought of God and Jesus Christ.
People fight God daily. You can't fight something, if it isn't already there. They are being presented with Him and in their own minds they are being lead to believe that believing in Him, is somehow offensive to their pride. That believing is weak and that believing is actually subtracting substance and value from the individual. When the truth is, you lose NOTHING in believing in God and Jesus Christ but gain EVERYTHING.
In the conscious/subconscious people actually for this conclusion that (If you believe in God and Jesus Christ, you are losing power, making yourself weak, because believing makes you lose value)- That's the general message of that lie. It comes from having pride which is vanity and in a more modern definition, a corrupt ego.
And on even deeper levels then that, what the word of God would call "spiritual meat" as opposed to "spiritual milk". Spiritual meat being that which is pretty intense, spiritual milk being things that are put more delicately...but on even DEEPER levels, those are lies being told to the individual from the first liar himself.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
>>1245162
(2/2)
I mean when you think of a suicide case, or anyone thinking about suicide. Why would they do that? Why would they even think of doing that?
There's a case being made against their personal value. An accusation against them and their value. The accusation looks like this, "You know, you aren't very bright, you aren't shit compared to other people, you're really just nothing. Oh and by the way nobody loves you, you have a pointless existence"
Why would anyone vollentarily feel inclined to think such thoughts about themselves? Those are lies people believe on deep levels of consciousness. Why would anyone just tell themselves these things? The answer is, they wouldn't.
again..
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Now back to free will...for whatever reason, we have a tremendous amount of power. To either descend into the darkness where we can get torn apart and lead to destruction, or we can stand in the righteous light, which the light will reveal the true value of EVERYTHING. That there is no reason to give up, that any slip up or mistake, is just going to make you stronger in the long run. God/Jesus Christ, what makes them among believers so significant, is that their light shows you the broader context. That the path doesn't end, that it's not all hopeless. That despondency is a lie and the result of losing sight to see the rest of the path, its a by product of being stuck in the dark. Where all you see is the end. When in fact, nothing ends.
>>1243231
(1/2)
>Why does God value faith?
>The only reason I can envision is he is faith-powered and will disappear if we stop believing in him.
You know, when you look at the earth in its entire context, not just how you want to see it mind you, but in it's complete truth, what do you see?
Do you not see...that you're the herd. The earth is your exhibit, an exhibit that you can't even leave. There's an entire universe out there and you're stuck on this rock and relying on others not to mess up this relatively small rock that's floating in space. Because if the masses mess this place up, it doesn't bode well for you or anyone else, even the ones who messed up to begin with.
That everything that was made here, comes from the earth. The metal that is used to produce feats of engineering, the chemicals, the wood that's used to build homes, all of it, the oxygen you need, all of it...allll of it, was here before you were ever born.
At birth you entered a place that had all the supplies you'll ever need. Even the universal laws in relation to earth are in your favor.
None...none of that......noneeee of that was man made. It was given to man.
Now what you makes you think, God "needs" your faith?
How do you know, it's not you..who needs the faith.
After all, faith is a fundamental aspect of our existence. For a man to build something, with the supplies God gave him, among the laws of physical reality that were in place before man...a man must first believe in his vision he was fortunate enough to have.
>>1245176
(2/2)
What I mean is this, a man doesn't build anything, unless he believes in it first. The strucuture or business that a man envisions. He has to have the faith that he can get it done. He has to do it all from scratch, and he doesn't do it unless he believes he can. Other wise it's just an idea he had on his couch or in his chair.
Now dont lie to yourself and think man is the creator. Because the supplies he didn't create. This arena he didn't create, and the arena and the supplies were here first.
Now why would anyone think....that this fundamental aspect of our existence, a faith driven existence, ends after death? That we somehow enter a new place where we won't AGAIN, be given our supplies and an arena to have fun with our faith?
All of what I spoke of and I havent even brought up good and evil. Which do exist. Evil being the destruction and death. The whisper against all righteouss faith. The whisper that tries to convince man that he's not strong enough, the whisper that tries to manipulate and jeapordize his progression.
And people hate God, the righteoussness he personifies in the midst of said evil and destruction. They blame Him even.
The truth is, they have no idea what they're talking about because they're choosing to remain in the darkness. In their pride and vanity, they think they're ones creating God...how laughable is that? Like spoiled children, given every thing and still think they're somehow greater than.
Where's the perspective? The humility? The gratitude even?
