Are there any groups of people or nations /his/ wishes would've survived?
Personally, I think it'd be hella neat if the Goths had managed to exist as an entity in the western Balkans or something. that'd be pretty neat for sure.
C'mon OP why would you want some Germanics from the Baltic to have survived when their material culture isn't even remarkable.
The obvious answer....
God damnit Varus where are my legions?! Had Teutoburg Forest not happened and the Germania canpaigns been successful Rome would have had an Elbe-Danube Border Frontier.
Much more easily defendable and supply lines would've been river-bound rather than cut off by the Alps...
Not even a Romaboo, I just wish the Empire didn't get royally fucked over in its infancy. Germanicus and Varrus living would've changed things dramatically =^{(
>>>>1235680
>infancy
por que amigo?
>>1235689
Infancy referring to the Roman Empire not the Roman empire. Big E meaning the principate. The centralized govt without the prospect of Charismatic warlords potentially destroying it all the times definitely meant it was a new state.
Key words: all the time.
Figures like Septimius Severus would be capable of seizing power the way they did because of the immediate treachery that allowed the succession of Tiberius
The imme sely chaotic state of Europe and the Mediterranean world with the fall of the Western Roman Empire only ensure the demise of Kingdoms like the Vandalic, Ostrogothic, and Visigothic Kingdoms. The Mediterranean was too desirable and opportunistic warlords of different tribes (e.g. the Lombards) would swoop in on the weakened Kingdoms. Hence why the Franks succeeded
>>1235680
The republic was better than the empire desu
>>1235732
Yeah, sure, I can see that, but it'd be neat if they held on.
Carthage.
>>1235749
Give me good reasons as to how and why the Republic was better and ultimately didn't further facilitate the eventual development of the Empire.
>>1236006
Because the Republic, historiography wise, was more interesting (conquest of Italy, Punic Wars, Civil War). All those events were also more critically important than anything in the empire aside from the crisis of the third century and eventual decline of the WRE. Last but not least, it was a system that worked far longer with success rather than suffer long periods of decline.
The Republic was also an empire in a non official sense since nearly all of Rome's territorial gains was gotten during it's Republican days.
>>1236037
Well no there was expansion under the Empire. The empire under the Republix was the rise of the state yes, I personally would agree. But if you're going tonuse phrases like historiography and then spout unrelated things and your personal opinion that doesn't make much sense now does it?
I personally agree the age of the republic was more interesting, however the Empire itself is more relevant historically. That's just the truth. But you are letting your favoritism towards either side of the coin of the roman state disuade you from what I am trying to say in the first place....
You aught to read more analytically and with less conviction in your beliefs you could have greater historical reading capabilities and come off less abrasive in general.
>>1235645
>Vandals in North Africa.
White Germanic tribe originally from Scandinavia running over Berbers in North Africa. Enough said.
>Moores in Iberia.
Maybe we would have an enlightened European Islam and Andalusia wouldn't be the shithole it is today.
>Iranics in Eastern Europe.
Better than Slavs.
>Persians in Mesopotamia.
The heart of pre-islamic Persia.
>Greeks in Afghanistan
Mix of Hellenic, Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic culture sounds amazing. The country might be civilized today.
>>1235858
>i like worship of Moloch
gee i wonder who this could be
>>1235645
Map is inaccurate. At no point did the empire control so much of Britain and not all of the Sinai. Also Africa west of Carthage, Upper Egypt, and the Levant seem much more sparsely controlled than in reality.
I wish the tocharians survived, they were pretty damn neat
>>1236267
Actually Rome briefly took the entirety of the British Isles, as well as made great strides not only into Sinai but also Nabatea. They ruled all of north africa actually; mauretania for the longest time was a client or allied series of kingdoms dating back to the relationship between Scipio Africanus and Massanissa. But the province would be conquered by Augustus. When it comes to the Levant the borders fluctuated heabily throughout the centuries but that is reasonably accurate considering there were more times in history the borders expanded beyond that and into Mesopotamia (numerous victorious over the Parthians). It wouldn't be until the Sassanids that the levant hodlings would see serious threat since the days of the early Empire/Late Republic.
Interesting thought:
Has Caracalla not been assassinated by his Praetorian prefect (later pretender) and successfully conquered Mesopotamia (easily accomplishable) and even pushed into Persia (questionable) there probably wouldn't have ever been a Sassanid Empire, nor a serious Eastern threat for that matter.
If not for the death of Caracalla the Roman Empire could potentially have had a secure vast Eastern realm of provi ces/buffer states and been able to acclimate enough resources to fend of Germanic migrants and perhaps even Arabian hordes
>>1236267
Actually m8 the levant is pretty conservative on that map considering Palmyra and Edessa are both further east than that frontier....
They would have just been absorbed by the local populations, so whats the point? If you want to ask them about their religion and culture and shit, it would be like asking a Serb about old slavic religion and culture.
Wish just about any other IE-speaking groups had survived, instead of being wiped out by Latin. Still so much we could learn.
Latin is near useless for IE linguistics except for confirming what we know from other languages. Fuck, even Germanic is more useful than that.
>>1235645
Celtic England. Imagine if the lingua franca today was some weird ass celtic language with consonant mutations
>>1235645
Etruscans, Carthiginians, Zoroastrians (in larger numbers somewhere), the ancient Greeks, Romans, Phoenicians, Sea People especially, I wish the Basque were a little bigger, the ancient Arabs, Mexica that weren't mixed. Basically every group of ancient people that did pass away.
>>1235645
Vandal Africa.
Celtic Britain
Kingdom of Soissons
Charlemagne's Empire
Iberian Union
Mongol Empire
Alexander's Empire
>>1235645
all the meso and south american indian states. It would have been awesome if they had managed to westernise independantly
>>1235645
Greco-Bactrian or Indo-Greek kingdoms.
>>1236197
>Greeks in Afghanistan
>Mix of Hellenic, Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic culture sounds amazing. The country might be civilized today.
>Islam
>civilized
pick 1
>>1236730
Clever
ERE
>>1236543
>Greco-Bactrian
What did those guys even do?
>>1236435
>Imagine if the lingua franca today was some weird ass celtic language with consonant mutations
Wouldn't it be French or something?
Vandals. How fascinating it might've been if they welcomed more people of their tribe to come over and settle there.
>>1238097
Bringing Hellenism to India
Pre Marxist Germans.
Oh geez
>strong finno ugric state up north (all the area around white sea that got taken by Russians) or more states
>illyrians (albanian propaganda is bullshit and we all know it)
>asia minor hellens
>carthagins
>basques ("basques" now are bullshit and we all know it)
>bretones ("bretones" now are bullshit and we all know it)
>cumans and similar semi-nomadic tribes in Ukraine
>sumerians, and the whole mesopotamian culture
>irish with irish language and irish traditions, not ircucks
>separate german tribes, i'd do with at least north/south germany
>>1235645
Austria-Hungary
>>1238604
[citation needed]
>>1235645
Goths still exist, we just call them Austrians now.
>>1236197
>Iranics in Eastern Europe.
welp
>>1235645
I would liked to have seen the Germanic Vandal kingdom still existing in North Africa, continuing to raid and pillage all across the area for centuries after.
>>1238991
That'd be pretty neat
>>1236409
Probably because Indo-European didn't exist
>>1239201
t. pajeet
>>1239201
So what is that Latin is confirming, coincidences?
>>1239233
T. Hans
>>1239245
All languages spawned from Latin.
>>1236197
>Moores in Iberia.
>Maybe we would have an enlightened European Islam and Andalusia wouldn't be the shithole it is today.
Improbable. The last moorish dynasties in Iberia were integrists from the sahara, and invaded the local iberian muslims using their "enlightened" soft islam as the casus belli.
>>1239257
[citation needed]
>>1239265
It's a running gag on /his/, someone periodically makes PIE threads and spends the whole thread countering with 'but they're all latin pie didn't exist'.
>>1239245
>hey fritz, what was the Indo-European word for lion?
>Well, we use the sanskrit simha and the albanian inj, and we obtain... Singho-s!
>what, why not Singha?
>it just fits.
>well, maybe you're right. What's the Latin word for lion?
>let's see.. Leo, Leonis. Hmm...
>what the fuck, this doesn't work.
>don't worry, they just changed the word for no reason. It just fits. Let's move on to the next word...
>>1239284
>people coming out of Ukraine didn't have a word for lion
surprise surprise
egyptians, carthagians, north african romanics, akkadians, assyrians, phoenicans
what middle east could have been
white people
>>1236291
Had they survived, they would have converted to Islam and become an irrelevant minority group being slowly replaced by Chinese immigrants. It's sad but true.
The Hittites on the other hand.
>>1235645
amazons
Buddhist Saka Kingdom of Khotan. Fucking Karakhanids :(
>>1238631
>implying croats arent illyrians
>>1236226
fugg off back to /pol/ fagget
Missouri French
Anatolian Greeks
Christian Berbers
Sub-Roman Britain
Kamchatka Aleuts (apparently really densely populated)
Ainu
In general, alot of the indigenous peoples of the Russian Far East
Norwegian Caithness and Shetlands & Orkneys
Greenland (this one hits me really hard)
Cahokia (this hits me even harder)
>>1235645
Samo's Empire is the only right answer
>>1235858
Baby sacrficer pls go
>>1236435
This. The anglos ruined everything they touched. Within a generation of Anglo saxon settlement there were no stone masons left in england. The britons had roman tier engineering by then and had been constructing impressive buildings after the romans withdrew
>>1239961
Croats are Slavs and always will be
The Incas
If it wasn't for the conquistadores they would have been able to expand and dominate the whole continent
>>1242216
Can you cite an impressive building constructed from masonry that was built de novo after 410 and can be SECURELY dated as such?
If your evidence for impressive buildings (stone-built or otherwise) is Wroxeter's basilican timber palace, Barker and White's reading of the archaeological evidence has come under the shadow of severe doubt.
As Lane has shown, there were far too many robber trenches and intrusions for the stratigraphy established by Barker to be in any sense secure.
>>1238631
I'm an Irishman who speaks the language and practices my history.
Separate German tribes de facto exist, Swabians are different from Westphalians for example.
>>1239274
Easily the worst poster on this board, and that's saying something
>>1242383
Well you are one in a million, i'd like to see actually irish nation. And the regional difference in nowadays Germany and during HRE (ideally even from ~800) are incomparable
I would say the Aztecs because they had some awesome imagery and customs, but they were too bloodthirsty and likely would've collapsed anyway had the Spanish shown up or not.
So instead I'll say the Inca, because they were much closer to a modern sovereign state than the Aztecs were, and if things had been a little different could've arguably put up a considerably stronger resistance to the Spanish. I think a modern-day westernised Incan state would've been awesome to see, rather than just have all of Latin America be dominated by the mestizo governments we see today.
No love for continental Celts? Imagine if the language stuck around and evolved somewhere in western Europe. I bet it would sound pretty neat.
>>1235645
The Swedes.
>>1238642
T.M. Charles Edwards, Wales and the Britons 350-1064 (Oxford, 2013)
T.M. Charles-Edwards "Language and Society among the Insular Celts, AD 400–1000", in M. J. Green (ed.), The Celtic World (London, 1995), pp. 703–36
G. Halsall, Worlds of Arthur: Facts and Fictions of the Dark Ages (Oxford, 2013)
Gratwick in N. Brooks (ed.) Latin and the Vernacular Languages of Early Medieval Britain (Leicester, 1982) pp.1-79
K.H. Jackson, Language and History in Early Britain: A Chronological Survey of the Brittonic Languages, First to Twelfth Century A.D. (Edinburgh, 1953)
C. Smith, "Vulgar Latin in Roman Britain: Epigraphic and other Evidence", in Aufstieg und Niedergang der Römischen Welt 2.29.2 (1983), pp. 893–948
>>1242766
The regional differences in France nowadays are also incomparable to those before the late 18th century. That has more to do with modern states and mobility than with loss of culture
