Hey /his/, I need some history buffs here to clear up an argument from /pol/
The polish were slaughtering ethnic Germans on the boarder of Poland and Germany and boasting about it, which caused the invasion with russia. Is this true?
It was countered with:
Their actual excuse was a false flag attack on German radio towers literally called Operation Himmler. No one on the international stage bought their excuse for invasion, so Hitler came up with half assed excuse to try and justify it after.
Is the response correct? Or did the polish provoke war first?
>>1240659
>The polish were slaughtering ethnic Germans on the boarder of Poland and Germany and boasting about it
No, but they were "mistreating" ethnic Germans as the Germans had done to ethnic Poles living in Germany for a century.
>which caused the invasion with russia. Is this true?
No, it was an excuse made by the Germans to justify war. Hitler would have pursed a war regardless.
>Or did the polish provoke war first?
Provoke maybe, but as I said above, there would have been a war regardless of their actions.
The Poles were being assholes to Germans out of revanchism, but there was no genocide.
>>1240659
The Germans commissioned investigators after the invasion of Poland was over to document the supposed crimes of the Poles. The first draft of the report, released in November 1939, documented the murders of ~5,400 ethnic Germans by Poles leading up to the invasion. This was later changed by authorities to 54,000, mostly because they felt they needed a larger number to keep the populace convinced the war was necessary in spite of the wholesale slaughter of Poles that immediately followed the invasion.
However, contrary to the claims of the Germans, these murders weren't state sponsored in any way. There were definitely tensions in many places, with some Polish soldiers targeting ethnic Germans once the war broke out (while others went out of their way to protect them), but as a whole the German propaganda is just that - propaganda. Remember that there were also ethnic German militias in parts of Poland that were stirring up shit as well, so the claim that the Poles were maliciously targeting innocent Germans doesn't really hold much water.
It's also notable that the German commission tasked with documenting war crimes saw right through the poorly-executed false flag attack Germany used as casus belli.
>>1240659
Yes the Poles were provoking the Germans. From a German perspective Yes.
The other side will say the attack on Ethnic Germans were staged. But it wasn't. Also try to separate propaganda from what really happened.
The Poles were purging Germans because Germany had claimed Sudetenland, Austria, and the Rhineland already. They were worried they were next.
The Poles were emboldened by hard rhetoric from France and the UK. They worried that the hard stance might die down as political circumstances changed.
The Poles had a pretty good army that could of decimated the Germany army, but the non-aggression pact with Russians would allow Germany to wipe out Poland quicker than France and UK could mobilize. German is powerful enough to take out any one Great Power on the European Continent quickly save the UK. But an alliance complicates things. Remember Italy is shit for an ally and doesn't really send anyone. Spain was devastated and couldn't help with an Early war. And Japan was supposed to attack Russia from the Manchuria/Siberia side, but the non-aggression pact made them turn their sights to the pacific.
Tactically Germany could of waited to done this and it would of been ideal. Hitler was by no means as stupid as he was portrayed in his bunker days when Berlin was being bombed and he was surrounded by pretty good smart, highly educated advisers.
Source incomeing
>>1240659
>> analysis
Germany was angry at Jews for war Profiteering during WWI, betraying them financially in exchange for the British promising Palestine. So on...
So after 1933 many Jews began fleeing Germany b/c of Hitler's policies, a number of them moved into Poland intensifying the population already there, but with a hunger for revenge. Plenty of them had predisposition for communism. And a large number of those committing purges could have been Jewish Radicals angry at what went on in Germany. Many Jews occupied the cities in the Germans part of Poland and had over-representation in the Polish government.
>From Book in pic:
Reports of increased hostilities breaking out between Poles and ethnic Germans in Polish
controlled territories created a feeling of urgency in Germany. For several months before Germany’s
invasion of Poland, ethnic Poles, protected by the Polish Army, launched a reign of terror against
German nationals living within the Polish Corridor. (Formerly part of Germany where Germans had
lived for several hundred years.) It is estimated that some 58,000 German nationals were killed
during this period by marauding mobs, encouraged by the Polish government. The German
government lodged dozens of formal complaint with the League of Nations, but with no results. Hitler
became increasingly distressed about it and said to the British Ambassador Sir Neville Henderson on
August 25, 1939: “Poland’s provocations have become intolerable.”
Typical of these massacres was that which occurred in the German town of Bromberg, in the
Polish Corridor. In this massacre, called “Bloody Sunday,” 5,500 ethnic Germans were slaughtered
like pigs. Children were nailed to barns, women were raped and hacked to death with axes, men were
beaten and hacked to death. 328 Germans were herded into Bromberg’s Protestant church, after which
the church was set on fire. All 328 burned to death.
>TBC...
>>1241009
Didn't the German do a census in WWI and found that disproportionally, Jews fought for Germany in the army?
>>1241009
>IT WAS DA JOOS
Get the fuck out.
>>1241009
>>1240659
>>1240735 is wrong.
>..continued from book MOGV
William Joyce, nicknamed Lord Haw Haw by British propaganda, became a German citizen and
took up Germany’s cause against Poland. He described the horrible conditions of the Germans who
lived in the former German territory which was now a part of Poland, in his book, “Twilight Over
England.” The following is his description of what happened in Bromberg:
“German men and women were hunted like wild beasts through the streets of Bromberg.
When they were caught, they were mutilated and torn to pieces by the Polish mob… . Every day the
butchery increased… . Thousands of Germans fled from their homes in Poland with nothing more
than the clothes that they wore.. On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred,
besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of
armed violence against German official persons and property.”
According to historian John Toland in his book “Adolf Hitler,” when Hitler first learned of the
Bromberg slaughter, at first he refused to believe that such a number had been killed, but, when
Berndt (the German public official who had brought the matter to his attention) replied that it may
have been somewhat exaggerated but something monstrous must have happened to give rise to such
stories, Hitler shouted “They’ll pay for this! Now no one will stop me from teaching these fellows a
lesson they’ll never forget! I will not have my Germans butchered like cattle!” At this point,
according to Toland, the Fuhrer went to the phone and, in Berndt’s presence, ordered Keitel to issue
“Directive No. 1 for the Conduct of the War.” That may well have been the actual trigger for the war,
though the causes of the war were multiple.
>>FYI Lord Haw Haw goes down in infamy for working for Germans despite the atrocities he saw. After the war he meets his hangman.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939)
>>1241019
I don't know, if you have a source, I'll gladly read it and its slanted interpretations. I just know about the Bavarian Coup by Eastern Jews in 1918. And there were several scandals involving Jewish Businessmen war profiteering after WWI.
>>1241034
>Jews dindu nuffin & get out.
No.
Facts about Jews 1914-1933:
Over-represented in media, Hollywood, press, banking and government in Europe.
Facts about Jews 1933-1939:
Angry at Germans for wanted equal representation in the above. Proceeded to revive German dehumanization.
Germans helped Jews goto Palestine.
Are you afraid of criticism of the Jews or something? Jews were involved in political life Europe, can't study Europe without studying Jews. How much influence they have is up for debate!
>>1241034
>Polish Jews Welcome Communists.
As in interjection, we shall mention here the reaction of Poland’s Jews to the Russian invasion
of Poland. Jews throughout Europe saw the Soviet Union as “good for the Jews,” and were very
favorably disposed towards the Soviet Union. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, in his book “Two Hundred
Years Together,” wrote that when the Soviets invaded Poland, “Polish Jews, and the Jewish youth
in particular, met the advancing Red Army with exulting enthusiasm” (as they had also done during
the Soviet invasion of 1919). The enthusiastic welcome of the Soviet invaders by Poland’s Jews
angered Polish patriots and became a major aspect of Polish anti-Jewish attitudes in later years. Jews
welcomed the Soviet troops in the very same way when they later invade Lithuania, the other Baltic
States, and other central and east European countries. After the war when the Soviet Union took
control of all of Eastern and Central Europe, all-Jewish regimes were installed in each of these
countries
>>1241065
The wiki article Judenzählung covers it briefly, if you understand German then "Die Ehre des jüdischen Soldaten" is a better read. Though don't bother learning German, it's a horrendous language to learn and speak.
And people say /pol/ isn't really batshit insane, you sure showed those suckers.
>>1241093
>>1241019
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenz%C3%A4hlung
Here is what I think:
Jews fought for the Germans in WWI, some were patriots. Some were conscripted.
Some Jews were also communists and some were defeatists described by Hitler. Some of the communists and communists were also non-Jew Germans. Unlike Russia, communism had not successfully infiltrated the German army as a fifth column.
> I cannot say for certain how many Jews were patriots and how many were defeatists or fifth columns. I'd say more the former than the latter.
I have discovered that many of these Jews who fought during WWI were declared honorary Germans, and were exempt from anti-Jewish laws and relocation that occurred post 1933. I can attest to several posters on /his/ and /pol/ relating to there genealogy to attesting this fact.
