>see China's commie-capitalism working quite well
>see China being able to control its minorities and keep the country unified
>try to pander to the west and give free speech to nationalist apes
>try to move to a welfare capitalist system, in a country with a huge black market that needs a crackdown
>fail hard and look at your superpower RUINED
>fat burger retards think it is Reagan who made this happen
How much of a KEK can a leader be? USSR could be like China today. They should have just become friendly with the west and release the Warsaw-pact countries.
Instead they now got a post-apocalyptic shithole, literaly somalia tier
>>1087985
Nah, tbqh Gorbachev needed to be icepicked and the USSR should have just kept up the good fight against capitalism rather than going full Deng Xiaoping and betraying the revolution.
>see China's commie-capitalism working quite well
Uh I think you've got your timelines confused
>fail hard and look at your superpower RUINED
I seem to remember a coup, by anti-reform communist hardliners, against Gorbachev, and that's what failed. And that in turn is what caused the superpower to fial.
>fat burgers credit Reagan
Yes, here I'll agree with you. This will never not be amusing.
>>1087985
He didn't succeed but he didn't cause the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was already an extremely dire situation by the time he got power. Doubling down and making it more repressive can stay off the collapse possible indefinitely. It could also cause a much more violent civil war.
>>1088000
gai ge kai fang aka the changing of ways and opening up of china happened before perestoika and glasnost m8
POL
POT
POL
POT
>>1088603
Yeah, Pol Pot is a hard one to beat.
>Jacob Zuma
we were doing alright until then, famm
>>1089391
uhh the 90s saw the biggest exodus of capital in South Africa's history
>>1088000
>I seem to remember a coup, by anti-reform communist hardliners, against Gorbachev, and that's what failed. And that in turn is what caused the superpower to fial.
This. Without Yanayev's Coup, the USSR would transform into a renewed union with more autonomy for each Republic.
Hitler
>>1089428
It's insane how one man's insanity destroyed a great power
I want /leftypol/ to leave. Reported.
>>1089428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
>germany
>>1087985
The Soviet Union was already dying by the time he got to power, Glasnost and all the other programs were an attempt to save it and, ultimately, reform the Soviet Union into a confederation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Sovereign_States
It was a solid plan, but the coup attempted by hardliners and its failure created deep and irreparable rifts inside the USSR.
After that and more than a few uprisings and clashes in the Baltic States, the Caucasus region between Armenia and Azerbaijan, Gorbachev knew that if the Soviets were going to survive, there would be a civil war between the republics who wanted independence, the reformists, and the hard-liners.
A civil war inside a state with ~50,000 nuclear warheads stockpiled wasn't acceptable to anyone, so when faced with that hard fact, The Soviets relented.
So was he a fucking cuck? nah. He was thrown into a situation where the only winning move was not to play. Any Hard-liner in his position would've chosen to crack down on the unrest and drive Russia into civil war that would've truly thrown the state into the literal ash heap of history.
>>1089475
>A civil war inside a state with ~50,000 nuclear warheads stockpiled wasn't acceptable to anyone
>Implying that slavniggers could design working nuclear bombs
>implying that communism can CREATE something other than potemkin villages
>>1089481
you must be real fun at parties.
thanks for losing the argument though, with no effort on my end.
>>1089492
>communist tears
cry more, faggot
>>1089497
go back to /b/, kid.
>>1089481
What was the cold war
>>1087994
>betraying the revolution
The Revolution was betrayed in October 1917, tankie.
>>1089859
Where's Stalin on that list? A small selection of his failures costing millions of Soviet lives:
>purge most officers
>Enable Hitler to start WWII by signing the non-aggression pact (what could go wrong?)
>stubbornly ignore every warning about the impending German attack
>refuse to make tactical retreats resulting in millions getting captured
>only after several Stalingrad-tier encirclements notice I'm incompetent and let others make decisions
Don't even get me started on domestic policy
>>1089892
If I recall correctly, Hitler and Stalin both invaded Poland.
>>1089892
This is based on the failing as a leader. Stalin killed millions but at the end of his reign te USSR was the strongest it had ever been
>>1089572
An internal conflict between the US State Department and the Pentagon.
t. Mencius Moldbug
>>1087985
khrushchev ruined the soviet union
but stalin was the root culprit. he created a party were affiliation mattered more than competence
>>1089859
I feel like there are much worse leaders in Egyptian history than nasser
>>1089973
>After WWII Russia never had any famine and people never starved anymore - unprecedented in their shitty history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347
Anyway, after the Green Revolution it's pretty much impossible to have a real famine in a country like the USSR.
>>1089859
Bashar did nothing wrong
![1459510440618[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9gsZJLp.jpg "1459510440618[1].jpg")
>>1087985
Isn't this the guy who moved away from the "communism" idea and towards the "rule of the engineering class" idea?
>>1090339
>Daily reminder Soviets won the Space Race
nah m8 the nazis did.
>>1089859
>Tsipris not at absolute disaster tier
>>1089859
FDR should be fucked up their country, Assad should be hit or miss, and Niky should be fucked up their country.
>>1089859
Yuan Shikai deserves to be way lower. He is the point at which China went full retard in a way it hasn't recovered from since. /his/ loves to hate on Mao, but Mao wouldn't be possible, nevermind plausibly an improvement, if it wasn't for Yuan Shikai.
>Germany could have been a superpower
>20th century could have never seen a world war
This retard fucked it up
>>1089859
HOXHA DID NOTHING WRONG
>>1089859
amerifat
>>1090681
If only Bismarck was immortal and wilhelms brother lived on.
>>1090681
>>Germany could have been a superpower
Okay. And how?
>>1087985
>own a huge fucking country
>suddenly it disappears
>>1090837
They were. 1914 they had the 3rd largest economy. At the pace it was progressing and growing, we would probably live something like 50 years in the future by now. Without having a huge colonial empire. Sooner or later, they would have dominated Europe and very likely defeated Russia as their sole competitor. With the combined forces of the Russian and German empire, nothing in the world could possibly have stopped them.
This is why Britain, France and Russia were planning to tackle Germany long before WWI.
>let's attack Sicily with everything we have, what could possibly go wrong lol
>>1089859
>Obama
>worse than Dubya
Also this list is fucking terrible regardless.
>>1090883
I don't think they had enough global influence to make them a superpower. And I don't see how the other European powers wouldn't support Russia. Neither the UK nor France wanted a dominant Germany. If the world wars didn't happen Germany would be like it is today, just with more territory and 90 million inhabitants.
>>1089859
>buchanan not lower
Look carter was bad, but he didn't sit there doing NOTHING as the country literally divided into 2.
>>1089572
A cold war.
The west was stupid enough to believe Soviet propaganda instead of doing aerial photos of Eastern Bloc cities and villages smeared in shit and full of nothing but smallpox-infected, dying, starving people.
>>1090339
>Daily reminder Soviets won the Space Race
Soviet intelligence fooled everybody into thinking that they can send anything into space*
>>1090350
German did for sure.
>>1087985
>try to pander to the west and give free speech to nationalist apes
Commiecucks everybody.
Gorby did nothing wrong. He said himself he wanted the Soviet union to continue. If it wasn't for the bad circumstances the Soviets had then it might possibly have existed still.
Boris Yeltsin is the faggot who disolved the Soviet union forever, because after the coup he banned the communist party and got paranoid to such an extent he clinged to whatever power he could aquire. Boris not, Gorby was the one driving force behind the wheel.
>>1090995
Where did you learn that? Cause it's bullshit.
>>1091095
If there's one thing Gorbachev can be blamed for it's allowing a lunatic like Yeltsin to take power.
The only reason Yeltsin got to be president of Russia as opposed to getting to go the gulag is because go Gorbachev's reforms.
>>1089973
You know where else didn't have any famines since then?
The fucking west.
Gotta admit though, giving Stalin credit for modern agriculture is a smooth one.
>>1091137
>commie damage control
>>1089481
it was mad productive dude, it was just awful and not sustainable on it's own
>>1089859
>assad
>khomeini
>nasser
>gaddafi
how did any of these people fuck up their countries
especially nasser, he was a fucking boss
>>1090837
not starting world war two and just sticking to hitler's policies or at least not being so ballsy after they started it, they could have had a fascist union of europe if they didn't set their goals so fucking high and decide UK/france weren't that big a deal
Flavius Phocas Augustus
Usurped the throne from the Last great Roman, Maurice, and murdered his family in front of him. This ended the newfound peace with Persia (whose emperor Maurice had installed, leading to great cooperation and the Persians actually just giving the Byzzies Armenia and Georgia), and in fact caused the Persian empire to attack the Byzantines as revenge.
Of it wasn't for all the infighting and shit, neither empire would have lost so much territory to Islam.
>>1089859
what a ride
>>1090887
>no AESTHETICS.jpg
>>1087985
>china
>commie
at this point, china is probably more capitalistic than most western countries
and its a good thing
>>1091750
man I wonder just how different the world would have been if Islam had been contained to the arabian peninsula and maybe north africa
>>1089859
>Khomeini
You may not like his ideology, but he certainly didn't ruin his country economically or militarily.
>Carter
He wasn't good for the economy, but he didn't cause long-lasting problems like other "Fucked up their country" leaders did.
>>1092680
Well we wouldn't have the "arab" renaissance, since most of their scientists and learning came from Persia anyway. Islam would gain a reputation as a religion for desert savages who worship a cube. I feel like eastern Christianity might have developed a sect that was more friendly to zoroastrian converts, so they might have converted in some fashion.
>>1087985
Deng Xiaochink reforms happened after Gorbacuck went full good goy, anon. And Deng was pretty pissed with him as well for betraying socialism. So no.
The question is why did Gorbacuck went full goy. Or in other words why couldn't the Communist Party of the Soviet Union made the capitalistic reforms while keeping a tight grip on society to cuck anyone trying subversion, separatism or any funny business. Was it because Gorbacuck was a faggot that wouldn't have the tanks rolling on the streets and the secret police cracking down on troublemakers or is there something deeper to it?
>>1091396
who needs evidence when you have memes xD
>>1089859
>no Reagan
Dropped
>>1087985
You communist sympathizers are the worst of the fucking bunch
The USSR was never a good nation, and Russia will never be a country worth living in
>>1089859
>Neville Chamberlain
People shit on Chamberlain really because Churchill shit on him so he'd look better
Like, what was the UK supposed to do, attack a nation that was probably about twice their strength and then seem like the aggressor on the world stage? Lol
And there's a reason Churchill got booted out right after the war
In the end, if you don't look at the war, Chamberlain was a fine Prime Minister, and even if you look at the war he really did all he could in his position
>>1089926
China under Mao managed to fight the whole UN in Korea, yet he's placed in the worst tier possible
>>1089428
What's funny is that the USSR could not have won alone, but /stalin/ likes to pretend.
>>1093553
>attack a nation that was probably about twice their strength
>people think this was true at literally any point before Dunkirk
>>1093573
That's the thing though, no one had any idea how strong Nazi Germany was, and Britain and France certainly weren't prepared for a war at that point.
I mean imagine if Nazi Germany was super powerful at that point and you just go and declare war on them when you're not ready, historians would call you the biggest fuck up in the history of Great Britain.
It's called the power of hindsight. Yes, now we know that if Chamberlain was more aggressive towards Hitler then Britain and France might have had the upper hand, but at the time they had no fucking clue. Also, it's not just Chamberlains fault, there was also the prime minister of France who no one shits on, and Roosevelt wasn't doing shit to help. And we don't have a clue what would've happened if they DID attack Germany, things could have gone worse. It's easy to say what they should have done when you know what actually happened.
But no, Chamberlain was just a shitter, it's not that Churchill wanted to shit all over the man just to be an asshole like he loved to do. Man, I wish the Greatest Briton got his way and attacked the USSR, I wonder how that would've gone
>>1089859
>Nicholas II
DELETE THIS
>>1090883
>at the pace it was growing and progressing we could be 50 years in the future by now
Stop being a fucking retard. No, this is not even close to true, in fact it was WW2 and the Cold War that progressed us technologically to this point in the first place.
Tech is advanced roughly three times faster in a state of conflict rather than a state of peace.
>>1090995
>The west was stupid enough to believe Soviet propaganda instead of doing aerial photos of Eastern Bloc cities and villages smeared in shit and full of nothing but smallpox-infected, dying, starving people.
>Soviet intelligence fooled everybody into thinking that they can send anything into space*
[citation needed intensifies]
>>1087985
Nice shitpost.
But yeah he sped up the killing of a dying system.
>>1089859
(You)
>>1087985
So according to you, people should have just live under terrible oppressive regime? To me, coming from post-soviet country, that's unbelievable.
>>1089859
>Ronald Reagan not on at least disaster-tier of this list
>Ronald Reagan not on this list at all
Jesus fuck, what are they teaching you in Clap School these days?
>>1091021
WE WUZ ASTRONAUTS N SHIT
>>1089859
Assad is winning his war you cuck.
>>1094547
It's the fact he's having to fight a civil war which probably got him on that list.
>>1091379
"the west" wasnt a shithole like russia before communism. both north america and western europe have tons of fertile land and comfortable climate
We have weekly threads on him
>>1090769
Makes Gorby look like a genius.
>>1087985
merkel
>>1088603
was funded by the cia
>>1089859
american conservitive who wont vote for trump in november
i kind of want you to die
Mussolini still the worst european dictator ever. That fucking stupid retard made huge shits and here, in italy, people still declare him a savior... I'm sorry germans about the fact that italy made you lose the war....
>>1094515
You seem to be autistic and unable to understand OP's point.
>>1094678
You seem to think no one else was trying to start it.
>>1089859
Where's Yeltsin?
>>1089859
>sadam hussein
>hitler
>assad
>tojo
>richard III
>lenin
>castro
>carter
>tokugawa iesada
>obama
>putin
>gaddafi
>chamberlain
>lyndon johnson
>alexander III
>nero
>bad
wew
>>1095402
Lepold and Louis really weren't that bad either
Don't deserve to be on the same level as Hitler or Pol Pot
>>1089572
A glib facsimile of the real war: the Hyper/Invisible Second American Revolution.
Educate yourself.
>>1089859
Johnson should be in destroyed-their-own-country tier.
>>1089859
Why is Muhammed II of Persia Genghis Khan?
kwame kilpatrick
Gorbachev did nothing wrong. He is a perfect saint.
>>1094678
So I take it Lincoln was also a shit leader. Caesar too.
>>1093556
>fight the whole UN in Korea
Pretty sure that like 80% of the troops were Americans
>>1093556
>China under Mao managed to fight the whole UN in Korea
With aid from the soviet union.
>>1089859
John Casimir of Poland wasn't terrible
Its just he inherited problems that were impossible to deal with at this point. His father was ten times worse than him.
>Established slavery system in his country.
All his achievement are overpowered by this fact.
gorby a best
>>1100263
Lincoln was a shit leader though, he single handedly caused the civil war and ruled like a tyrant until he ran into the wrong end of a bullet.
>>1089859
No one mentioned Milosevic, or basically all the post-Tito rulers of disintegrating Yugoslavia
>>1089859
You may or may not like Merkel but putting her in disaster tier along with the others there while the country she's governing is the strongest European economy is plain retarded
>>1100956
>single handed my caused a war that began before he took office
This is what southerners actually believe
>>1089859
>khomeini
>disaster tier
He took a country that was a crappy lapdog to the two superpowers and made it into a non-aligned industrialized and developed regional power.
>>1089859
I'd put Daladier and Chamberlain much higher.
>>1101928
>implying non-aligned has inherent value beyond being a tool to promote standards of living and security
>implying you can't be non-aligned without wrecking your foreign relations
>implying Iran isn't a Russian client
>>1089859
There's so much stuff missing from this list it's not even funny.
>>1089859
>duvalier
>not destroyed country tier
>>1090896
>Bush in fucked-their-country tier
>Obama in hit-or-miss tier
>Obama lower than Bush
I think you misread
I've seriously been infatuated with Gorbachev for most of my life. He's the closest thing to a hero I have. He isn't perfect but there's just -something- about him that I am absolutely in love with. I want to visit the Gorbachev Foundation before I die. I've listed GF as the recipient of a life insurance policy my job pushed on me. I don't want to live in a world without Mikhail Gorbachev.
>>1101928
Annnd funded the modern network that Middle Eastern Terrorism thrives on to this day.
>>1089428
nice meme tovarish
>>1100291
80% of the functioning world was American at the time
>>1100378
Yes and?
You didn't see thousands of Soviet soldiers.
It was mostly Chinese with backpacks and 1920's rifles using infantry tactics from the 30's.
>>1101904
That wasn't her doing.
Something something 2005.
>>1102917
The few people that remember him know that he killed the Soviet Union. Nothing more.
>>1102997
That's the Gulf Sunni States as well.
Hezbollah is somehow better than the ISIS/Al-Qaeda spawn Salafists breed.
>>1089859
I would probably swap Mussolini with Buchanan desu. Mussolini did a lot of good for Italy, but he was a massive fuck-up when it came to war and essentially signed his own death warrant when he sided with Hitler instead of staying neutral like Franco or Salazar.
>>1089859
>Tsipras
>hit and miss
>>1103871
>Hezbollah is somehow better than the ISIS/Al-Qaeda spawn Salafists breed.
They're all the same eastern barbarian type of people
>>1089859
I'm very, very glad to see Saddam on top. I'm fucking tired of /pol/acks praising the cunt who ruined Iraq. His regime being better than what is happening right now does not at all make him a good leader who did nothing wrong.
Gorby and the CCCP was overthrown by a series of coup de tats.
>>1089973
>Richard III DID NOTHING WRONG
He allowed the Tudors to gain power, allowing the English reformation to happen, which soon allowed Puritans to inhabit America, which is the ultimate cause of Fundamentalism and Dawkins tier Atheism.
>>1087985
In a democracy a bad leader can't ruin a country, only in a dictatorship.
That's literally Darwinism. Don't worry China will get there too. One-party dictatorships have the same flaw as monarchies: One bad leader without a worthy successor and you have a fucking problem which will cost you a lot of blood and money. Democracies can have several bad leaders in a row and still prosper.
