Was allying with Italians one of the most dumbest decisions Hitler ever did, and a big factor in why Nazi Germany lost WWII?
>>1086749
>Was allying with Italians one of the most dumbest decisions Hitler ever did
>most dumbest
>and a big factor in why Nazi Germany lost WWII?
no
as a devoted /his/ poster it is my duty to defend Benny's honor in this thread
>>1086759
What did you think of his failed campaign in North Africa? Massively autistic or just slightly?
>>1086749
I think a better question is if the Italians were competent enough to handle the african campaign alone would the germans have been able to defeat the russians by 1942. If they could do that then MAYBE they have a shot at winning the war.
>>1086763
So are you asking if the... what was it, nine at most? divisions that the Germans had in Africa would have turned the tide in the east? No.
>>1086749
>allying with Germans was the dumbest decision Mussolini ever did
fixed
>>1086763
>German victory on the Eastern Front depended on the outcome of North African theater
protip: it didn't
>>1086764
What if they had been used in the push for moscow?
>>1086749
Who else did they have who would've allied with them in Europe?
At least the Italians tied British forces down in North Africa and the Mediterranean.
>>1086774
Still would've been steamrolled by angry Siberians
Numbers don't mean shit when you're freezing in the steppes without proper winter clothing
>>1086749
If Hitler did not, would Mussolini have joined the allies ? Maybe at the end ?
>>1086749
There was no way Hitler could have know that Mussolini was going to fuck up in Greece and Africa the way he did
>>1086785
There's no chance that Italy wouldn't have allied with Germany. Hitler used Fascist Italy as a model for his government, and would have likely been outraged if the Italians simply refused. However, they probably would have ended up like Portugal or Spain had they somehow manage to stay neutral after the war.
>>1086749
I thought Hitler was supposed to be a manlet
Was Musso some kind of latin leprechaun?
>there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who think operation Marita somehow postponed Barbarossa
>>1086806
Up to the end it was 50/50 on whether Mussolini was going to go with Hitler or the Allies. Hitler and Mussolini didn't have a very good relationship early on, especially after Austria. Also the British were really putting the pressure onto Ciano to make Mussolini fall in line. Probably would've happened if their reaction to Ethiopia hadn't been so severe.
>>1086774
Actually at the time of Moscow the AK was about two divisions. So, no help.
>>1086785
I recall that in one of the last if not the last interviews, he said something along the lines of regretting the alliance with Hitler and that he should've allied with the allies.
I might be wrong though maybe someone remembers the quote.
>>1086806
Except they were almost outright enemies until 1936. The fascists opposed the Anschluss of Austria especially. There were Austrian Nazis fighting in the Ethiopian War on the Ethiopian side for crying out loud.
It was only the international isolation caused by the Brits that forced Mussolini's hand to ally with Hitler.
And all the way until 1939 he was looking for other allies against Germany.
>>1086833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stresa_Front
what could've been..
>>1086749
No, allying Japan was
HE LITERALLY GAINED NOTHING
>>1086749
While we're making fun of Italy during WW2, here's a good joke:
Why did the ships of the Second Italian Fleet have glass bottoms?
>>1086774
Until Nov 1942 dak had only 15 Pz Div and 21 Pz Div
>>1087007
Tell us already!
>>1086829
I think we've successfully debunked this small corner of meme history. Yet there still stands so much more to go.
>>1086760
Italians.
>>1087046
[spoiler]So that they could see the First Italian Fleet.[/spoiler]
>>1087053
huehe
Mussolini had made clear what the capabilities of Italy were at the times, there was no trick or anything.
It's Mussolini who should've stayed out of it instead of literally gamble with the false hope that war would be over very soon after he entered it. Once in, he had to do something but obviously failed.
why did italy perform so poorly in world war 2?
>>1086954
>Khalkhin Gol
> 1941 Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact
He could gained everything if japs weren't so retarded.
>>1087065
they didn't really have the industry to be up there with the big guys
>>1087084
Well it doesn't really explain greece...
>>1087065
Most Italians had no real connection to the state, Fascism was always a minority position among Italians.
Why not have them as allies?
>>1087065
You should ask yourself this: if WWII didn't happen, would've Italy started shit in the same period? Judging from what they knew about the state of their military complex, most likely no. IIRC they estimated that Italy would've been ready for conflict in 1945 at the rates of development they predicted, which were probably optimistic as well.
Mussolini literally said that the only reason he entered the war was because he wanted to sit at the table of negotiations once the war was over, which according to him was imminent. Many of his generals were against this decision as well.
>>1086749
Reminder that if Mussolini hadn't allied himself to Hitler his country might have survived long enough for us to see what Fascism's real world potential was.
>>1086749
No.
Not getting Pooland on his side was the biggest mistake.
Also wasting money, troops and resources to kill jews, polacks, balts and czechs while in the fucking war.
>>1087292
>Poortugal
>>1087353
Portugal's problem today has nothing to do with Salazar. He was actually the solution for a lot of shit.
>>1086749
>shitting on il duce
>shitting on fascist italy
>>1086764
They had 2 in 1942. I don't think they ever had 9 divisions.
