Is Pilate's reluctance to punish Jesus in the Gospels a way of deflecting blame away from the Roman government and onto the Joos?
The Romans only used crucifixion for slaves and for crimes against the Roman state. If Jesus was crucified, it was because the Romans perceived him as an enemy of the state. The Sanhedrin would have had nothing to do with it, and no Jewish religious squabble would have had anything to do with it. All four Gospels explicitly state that the official reason for the crucifixion was that Jesus had claimed to be the King of the Jews (or at least that other people were claiming he was the King of the Jews). That was the placard allegedly placed on the cross, so if that's accurate then that was the crime.
It is also likely that the Temple incident played into it. Causing any kind of trouble at the Temple during Passover would get somebody killed immediately. During the Passover week, the Romans were greatly outnumbered by Jews coming in from the villages and they were paranoid about riots. Josephus describes multiple violent incidents that happened in the Temple courtyard, including riots and mass slaughters. So an assault on the Temple or a threat to destroy the Temple or a prophecy against the Temple could easily get somebody killed.
It seems that the trial before the Sanhedrin is a Markan fiction invented as a way to try to take blame for the crucifixion away from the Romans and put it on the Jews. The trial and the reluctance of Pilate are both highly implausible for a variety of reasons, and Jesus did not preach anything counter to Jewish law anyway.
>Jesus was gud jew he dindu nuffin
The Jews of ancient Rome were a bunch of inbred peasants with profound anger issues. PP just gave them what they were asking for, to appease the angry mob.
>>1086602
>PP just gave them what they were asking for
Who is 'them'? the Sanhedrin?
>>1086595
No, his wife had a vivid dream the night before and told him to have nothing to do with this Jesus of Nazareth person.
>>1086595
Plus Pilate conducted a bench trial against Jesus and found nothing to convict Jesus of. He knew, obviously, that this was some Jewish bullshit, so he figured he's have Jesus whipped and that would be the end of it.
>>1086708
did you even read the OP?
>>1086712
>Is Pilate's reluctance to punish Jesus in the Gospels a way of deflecting blame away from the Roman government and onto the Joos?
Yes.
Did you?
Getting a read on Pilate's motivation is going to be a tricky thing because we know about maybe 3? things he did besides Jesus. He built an aqueduct using temple funds (which pissed Jews off) and he put the Roman eagle up on the temple only to take it down after much protesting.
He seemed overly concerned with keeping the peace to me, which would make sense following the whole debacle with Herod's will. So your reasoning is probably close to the truth. Jesus was one of many Messiah prophit types, better to make an example of one than to let more riots break out.
>>1086740
According to Josephus, Pilate’s supporter, Sejanus, was murdered. Without his protector in power, Pilate made an error and suppressed a small uprising in Samaria. The leader of the Samaritans promised that “He would show them those sacred vessels which were laid under that place, because Moses put them there.”But Pilate sent his troops and defeated them before they arrived at Mt. Gerizim. However, trouble followed as indicated in Josephus’ following statement,
But when this tumult was appeased, the Samaritan senate sent an embassy to Vitellius, a man that had been consul, and who was now president of Syria, and accused Pilate of the murder of those that were killed . . . So Vitellius sent Marcellus, a friend of his, to take care of the affairs of Judea, and ordered Pilate to go to Rome, to answer before the emperor to the accusation of the Jews. So Pilate, when he had tarried ten years in Judea, made haste to Rome, and this in obedience to the orders of Vitellius, which he dare not contradict; but before he could get to Rome, Tiberius was dead.
Eusebius reported that Pontius Pilate committed suicide during the reign of Caius or Emperor Caligula. Eusebius records the following for us,
It is worthy of note that Pilate himself, who was governor in the time of our Savior, is reported to have fallen into such misfortunes under Caius, whose times we are recording, that he was forced to become his own murderer and executioner; and thus divine vengeance, as it seems, was not long in overtaking him. This is stated by those Greek historians who have recorded the Olympiads, together with the respective events which have taken place in each period.
The quote reveals that many Greeks considered Pilate’s misfortunes to be divine justice for the death of Jesus Christ. Tradition adds that Pilate died in Vienne, France on the Rhone or on Mount Pilatus, Switzerland. The Eastern Orthodox church believes that Pilate and his wife eventually became Christians.
>>1086755
>>The quote reveals that many Greeks considered Pilate’s misfortunes to be divine justice for the death of Jesus Christ.
Many christian Greeks you mean, I doubt any hellenes gave a fuck.
>>1086755
Hmm OK... Must've forgotten about some of Josephus's notes on Pilate. Still seems like he's one of the few authorities on his time in Israel, and im pretty sure there isn't much of anything on Jesus let alone his trial. Same goes for Herod's supposed Massacre of the innocents.
Actually, are there any historical mentions of that event during Herod's reign or is that Bible only?
>>1086771
He was a pretty harsh man. I seem to recall him sprinkling the blood of people he had executed on the temple altar. I doubt many tears were shed at all.
>>1086803
I don't think it was a big enough event to trigger historical note; how many 2 year old and under baby boys could there have been? A handful?
>>1086803
Herod's first order of business was to eliminate his Hasmonean predecessors. Mattathias Antigonus was executed with the help of Mark Antony and Herod killed 45 leading men of Antigonus’ party in 37 BC (Antiquities 15:5-10; LCL 8:5-7). He had the elderly John Hyrcanus II strangled over an alleged plot to overthrow Herod in 30 BC (Antiquities 15:173-178; LCL 8:83-85).
Herod continued to purge the Hasmonean family. He eliminated his brother-in-law, Aristobulus, who was at the time an 18 year old High Priest. He was drowned in 35 BC by Herod’s men in the swimming pool of the winter palace in Jericho because Herod thought the Romans would favor Aristobulus as ruler of Judea instead of him (Antiquities 15:50-56; LCL 8:25-29; Netzer 2001:21-25). He also had his Hasmonean mother-in-law, Alexandra (the mother of Mariamme) executed in 28 BC (Antiquities 15:247-251; LCL 8:117-119). He even killed his second wife Miriamme in 29 BC. She was his beloved Hasmonean bride whom he loved to death [literally, no pun intended] (Antiquities 15:222-236; LCL 8:107-113).
Herod set up an internal spy network and eliminated people suspected of revolt, most being taken to Hyrcania, a fortress in the Judean Desert (Antiquities 15:365-372; LCL 8:177-181).
Herod also had three of his sons killed. The first two, Alexander and Aristobulus, the sons of Mariamme, were strangled in Sebaste (Samaria) in 7 BC and buried at the Alexandrium (Antiquities 16:392-394; LCL 8:365-367; Netzer 2001:68-70). The last, only five days before Herod’s own death, was Antipater who was buried without ceremony at Hyrcania (Antiquities 17:182-187; LCL 8:457-459; Netzer 2001:75; Gutfeld 2006:46-61).
Herod the Great became extremely paranoid during the last four years of his life (8-4 BC). On one occasion, in 7 BC, he had 300 military leaders executed (Antiquities 16:393-394; LCL 8:365).
Seems capable of it.
>>1086810
Source?
If he went around killing people willy nilly and shitting all over Jewish holy sites why do the gospels portray him as king-hearted and reluctant to punish Jesus?
>>1086595
>The Romans only used crucifixion for slaves and for crimes against the Roman state. If Jesus was crucified, it was because the Romans perceived him as an enemy of the state. The Sanhedrin would have had nothing to do with it, and no Jewish religious squabble would have had anything to do with it. All four Gospels explicitly state that the official reason for the crucifixion was that Jesus had claimed to be the King of the Jews (or at least that other people were claiming he was the King of the Jews). That was the placard allegedly placed on the cross, so if that's accurate then that was the crime.
First off, Jesus was not literally killed or murdered; He dismissed His Spirit and died. If He wanted to, He could still be hanging on that cross today, alive.
He had to be crucified to fulfill prophecy. He had to be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver to fulfill prophecy. He had to be bruised in the house of His friends to fulfill prophecy. He had to be killed on the Passover, same reason. He had to rise on the third day due to His own prophecy.
Jesus became a human in order to die. This is a difficult concept to grasp, and an even more difficult act to imagine.
Jesus let Pilate off the hook, just a little bit:
John 19
Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?”
Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”
This trial followed the immensely illegal night trial the Jews held against Jesus, breaking virtually all of their own laws in the process.
And yet Jesus never offered a defense for Himself in either, and did not have to suffer either.
>>1086899
Luke 13
There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
>>1086725
>god knows everything
>has to be told about the tree of good and evil by adam and eve
>>1086948
>believing jews
literally sent by the Legate of Syria to the biggest shithole of the Empire to keep an eye on the hood
what was he supposed to do, wage wars against the jewry?
>>1087152
You could have said "had to ask where Adam and Eve were", and that would have at least had a bible verse to back it up.
But you went with "100% made up bullshit".
>>1087159
yfw God is a Jew
>>1087161
Seems like a shit assignment to me.
ANSWER ME
>>1086595
Wasn't he trying to please all the Angry jews at the expense of one poor guy who gets crucified
>>1087152
Why are you lying?
Pilatus a based guy
It's not completely unlikely given the delicate situation for Rome in Judea and the relative danger for not doing something that appeared so small.
>>1087199
source
