Can anyone tell me about the interactions between celts, Germans and Slavs with the Roman Empire? The Romans describe the germanics as being of average build yet hardy and the celts as tall, strong and terrifying yet they beat the celts in war and not the germanics, why is this? What kind of systems, traits and armour did they all have? Why is there such a lack of sources about slavs, it seems that such a prominent group of people today were virtually irrelevant back then. Very interesting point in history I think.
>>1230485
Definitely one of the most interesting periods in history.
Its important to point out that there were many different sub groups of germanic peoples. Over the course of 200-300 years the Romans could occasionally destroy a group, such as the Marcomanni and new germanic identities would emerge such as the chamavi, bructeri, franks, alamannii, etc.
Check out Peter Heather's Empires and Barbarians or Patrick Geary's Before France and Germany.
>>1230485
>Why is there such a lack of sources about slavs,...
Slavs came into contact with the Roman Empire as late as the 6th century.
The Slavs under name of the Antes and the Sclaveni make their first appearance in Byzantine records in the early 6th century. Byzantine historiographers under Justinian I (527–565), such as Procopius of Caesarea, Jordanes and Theophylact Simocatta describe tribes of these names emerging from the area of the Carpathian Mountains, the lower Danube and the Black Sea, invading the Danubian provinces of the Eastern Empire.
Procopius wrote in 545 that "the Sclaveni and the Antae actually had a single name in the remote past; for they were both called Sporoi in olden times." He described them as barbarians, who lived under democracy, and that they believe in one god, "the maker of lightning" (Perun), to whom they made sacrifice. They lived in scattered housing, and constantly changed settlement. Regarding warfare, they were mainly foot soldiers with small shields and javelins, lightly clothed, some entering battle naked with only the private parts covered. Their language is "barbarous", and the two tribes do not differ in appearance, being tall and robust, "while their bodies and hair are neither very fair or blond, nor indeed do they incline entirely to the dark type, but they are all slightly ruddy in color. And they live a hard life, giving no heed to bodily comforts...[7] Jordanes described the Sclaveni having swamps and forests for their cities.[8] Another 6th-century source refers to them living among nearly impenetrable forests, rivers, lakes, and marshes.[9]
Menander Protector mentions a Daurentius 'Dobreta' (577–579) that slew an Avar envoy of Khagan Bayan I. The Avars asked the Slavs to accept the suzerainty of the Avars; he however declined and is reported as saying: "Others do not conquer our land, we conquer theirs – so it shall always be for us".[10]
>>1230485
The Romans weren't too fond of Germanic people.
>>1232172
Because they weren't people
>>1230485
Not quite, the teutonic tribe was described as tall as dick iirc
>>1232183
/thread
>>1232183
Funny how supremacist dynamics change over the course of centuries.
I think people overestimate how big of a deal being hueg is in a pitched battle.
Hueg Germanics and Celts were probably terrifying to manlet Romans, but the Romans usually had superior training, discipline, and were fairly strong themselves, being professional soldiers who lived in an era where labor was a constant
>>1230485
Germanics considered Celtic weapons & armor to be top tier and nicked/bought them whenever they can.
Some of the finest Celtic weapons collections are here in Germany and Austria. Though the Austrian collection is due to the Halstatt Culture and the Boii Confederation being there than German presence.
>>1230485
>beat the Celts in war
>THEY WERE FOKIN YUUUGE WITH CRAZY SPIKED HAIR! THEY WERE FEARLESS AND FOUGHT NAKED
>lose to Germans in war
>DUMB SNOWNIGGERS THEY SUCK AT EVERYTHING
>>1232505
Roman beat the Germans more often than not
And it's not like we don't have skeletons to determine if Roman descriptions of people were accurate. They were
>>1230485
Read Thomas Hodgkins multi-volume history of the Barbarian Invaders.
It is an older title, but the writing is wonderful.
The first 4 volumes are the best for the invasions of the late empire.
>>1230549
The Marcomanni were never totally destroyed in the wars with Marcus Aurelius, they show their ugly faces again in the 3rd century. Ethnogenesis was weird then, presumably all of these tribes named by writers like Tacitus and Ptolemy thought it would be a better idea to unite in the face of Roman aggression than keep duking it out.
>>1232185
depends on which roman historian you read
Tacitus described the Germans as tall and powerful and all that, but he setting them up to show how weak and pathetic the Romans had become under the Emperors (specifically Nero and Caligula) and how strong they used to be as a republic. So he's pretty clearly politically motivated and probably not too reliable
>>1230485
As far as the Slavs go, I think there is a lack of sources on their early years because there was not the intellectual growth like there was in earlier centuries. The Eastern Roman Empire did take down what their neighbors looked and fought like, but that was it for Europe. The Avar records do not remain today. The other Germanic and Asiatic nations have no records either.
I have this from a modern source. I also have several Arabic and Persian sources on them, let me try to find them
Semi-loosely related, why'd the Slavs end up so far west? Did the Huns really drive them that far?
>>1233492
Found them, and if you want to read a great book about [later] Slavs and the early Vikings then pick up: "Ibn Fadlan and the Land of Darkness: Arab Travellers in the Far North (Penguin Classics)" It's a good one
>>1233501
The Huns did some crazy shit, but I imagine that they drove some other peoples West. That wave of people either attacked the Slavs, or warned them of an incoming threat.
The Huns were not against absorbing other peoples into their horde. Many Goths ended up in the Hunnic hordes as they migrated/raided towards the Roman border. I find it strange the Slavs would not do the same
