> The Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, killed in early May 2002, two weeks before he was expected to gain one-fifth of the vote, was a paradoxical figure: a right-wing populist whose personal attributes and opinions (for the most part) were almost perfectly “politically correct”: He was gay, had good personal relations with many immigrants and possessed an innate sense of irony, etc.—in short, he was a good, tolerant liberal with regard to everything except his basic political stance. He opposed fundamentalist immigrants because of their lack of tolerance toward homosexuality, women’s rights, religious differences, etc. What he embodied was thus the intersection between rightist populism and liberal political correctness. Perhaps he had to die because he was living proof that the dichotomy between right-wing populism and liberal tolerance is a false one—that we are dealing with two sides of the same coin.
>Perhaps he had to die
Feelosofee at eets pyoorest.
http://inthesetimes.com/article/19037/slavoj-zizek-democracys-fascism-problem
Fuck Milo Yiannopolis.
He's probably the most dangerous personality around right now.
Trying to normalize the Neo-Nazis and fascists on the Alt-Right detracts from both the true nature of the Alt-Right (i.e. it doesn't care about tolerance and people like Milo are only tolerated because "muh Jews, we need a gay man to say these things," not because anyone on the Alt-Right thinks he's cool). He's a piece of shit.
Perhaps he has to get AIDS.
>>1069844
Still doesn't convince me that Zizek isn't just a liberal trying to annoy other liberals.
>>1069865
Dude is a closeted tranny train wreck. He's gonna transition or kill himself soon
>>1069865
That is not necessarily true. Just like the working class does not necessarily like gays, I can't see why neo-nazis should automatically dislike gays.
Perhaps the issue is not left-right, and class, while dominant, is not the only important parameter.
>>1069875
>Perhaps the issue is not left-right, and class, while dominant, is not the only important parameter.
The issue is that modern gay culture is artificial and degenerate. I don't give a fuck if a person is gay. I just don't want to hear about it. This is the attitude on the Alt-Right. Milo uses his homosexuality as a platform to bash women. This is offputting.
>>1069886
>le shove it in my face maymay
This thread is interesting. Cant wait to hear what a bunch of leftist American college kids have to say about my country's political issues.
>>1069895
I don't understand your point. Are you implying that the alt-right is a fortress for gay rights advocates?
>>1069899
You'll finally understand how I see foreigners posting Bernie memes and advocating socialism in America
>>1069907
That "I just don't want to hear about it" is rote and 99 times out of 100, contradictory
>>1069844
Pim Fortuyn was the first "politician" I ever looked up to, and I still miss him. Geert Wilders has nothing on the charming smart figure Pim was.
t. gay Belgian.
>>1069915
But that's how I feel. What do you want me to do? Vote on convictions I don't have or things I don't believe? Maybe I'm generalizing, but you're being a fucking idiot and missing the point, which was originally about Milo Yiannopolis.
I honestly don't understand what you want from me.
>>1069916
>> I'm voting Donald "Hillary 2016" Trump
I'm not sure who I'm voting for but it won't be Sanders.
>>1069922
I was responding to a point you may or may not have actually made
But I agree that milo is trash
>>1069865
If anything Milo is probably the least dangerous of the bunch, since he's all about mainstreaming the AR and turning it into generic an anti-SJW liberal thing. He's also not that much on the right himself.
>>1069936
That's why he's dangerous, he isn't representative of anyone but himself. Is the normalization of Stormfront a good thing?
>>1069899
Pim seems like he was a clever guy but modernity itself is the problem. You can point out that Islam (and most religions) are anti-modern and somehow incompatible with society, but it's modernity itself that gives room for these anti-modernist stances to grow.
How can you say you're a modern (presumably clinging to the achievements, political and moral, of the enlightenment) and then try to ban Islam? You're going against your own enlightenment liberal values.
Would Islam grow as fast if it were in a strongly Catholic country?
Modern secularism isn't strong enough. We either need a pre-modern secularism (see: Aristotelianism) or just get back into religion.
>>1069886
> modern gay culture is artificial and degenerate.
I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that gay people were all part of one single monolithic gay culture. This comes as a surprise. Much less was I aware that their culture is somehow invariably "degenerate."
What a revelation! Thank you for taking the time to do that research. It must have been painful for you considering that you
> just don't want to hear about it.
Good think heterosexuals aren't one single culture like The Gayz! Whew, that would spell death for us. Because, with our huge divorce rates, statistical tendency to cheat, and increasing rates of promiscuous sex before marriage, one could accuse us as being equally "artificial" and "degenerate."
Hmm. Perhaps it's best to analyze people as individuals, then. That'll be hard for you though, seeing as you
> just don't want to hear about it.
You'll have trouble distinguishing the "artificial, degenerate" gays from the humble, boring, work-a-day, married gays.
>>1069947
The problem is post-modern secularism, actually.
Im scimming this thread and i fail to see what this thread has to do with /his/. This isnt the modern politcs board.
>>1069948
t. degenerate faggot
I honestly have no interest in hearing gay people defend their right to talk about swallowing dicks loudly in public. I have no patience for homosexual friends who talk about swallowing dick loudly in private whenever they get the chance. I don't have much more patience for straight people who do the same. I have no sympathy with homosexual idiots who think that "more gays in advertising" is a necessarily good thing. I have absolutely no patience for a person who uses his deviant sexuality to silence the opinions of heteronormative individuals.
Fuck you and your high horse.
>>1069956
inb4 I get banned for thinking homsexuality is a sin
>>1069953
But post-modernism can only emerge from modernism, a mistaken and unsustainable movement.
Post-modernism is simply half-believing Kant, Locke and Nietzsche all at the same time.
>>1069954
>philosophy
>>1069963
What was Kant right about?
>>1069961
Yes, the memes are coming home to roost.
>>1069960
>persecution complex intensifies
>>1069966
None of them were right about anything. Post-modernism is simply a culture where all three of those thinkers are taken seriously simultaneously. And this is fucked up, because they wrote in opposition to each other.
>>1069956
You're necessarily doing the opposite by opposing, which is why the movement came to be.
As a gay man, most people in the "community" don't like "those gays" but they provided a dialectically necessary function so the normal gays could avoid their own demonization
>>1069970
Do you support having me shot?
If you do, I hope you have an actual argument before you sick the state on me for thinking you associate with obnoxious people who rejoice in their own hypersexualization and wonder why people object to what I call modern gay culture.
>>1069975
>do you support having me shot
Of course not you fucking moron.
>>1069965
OP has nothing to do with philosophy. And neither does any of this content afterwards. Right wing vs left wing circle jerking isnt philosohpy. Its politics you retarded monkey. IF you want to talk about politics at least make it /his/ related or fuck off to /pol/.
>>1069844
Rest in peace Pim. We miss you still. He could have saved our country.
>>1069978
It's Marxist critique of ideology.
It's incredibly /his/related. Unless you think it's a /lit/ thread.
>>1069974
>You're necessarily doing the opposite by opposing, which is why the movement came to be.
Deep. I didn't realize that, man. Wow.
>As a gay man, most people in the "community" don't like "those gays"
Then shut them up, because they're turning people like me (people who were pro-gay marriage until you went too far with this stuff) away from your movement.
>>1069977
Then there's not much you can do about this.
>>1069982
It really belongs on /pol/.
You fucking people are just too stupid to realize it.
>>1069983
>then shit them up
Unfortunately I don't have the magic spell that lets me do that. I'll just wait till they die of aids
>then there's not much you can do about this
?????
>>1069947
>Would Islam grow as fast if it were in a strongly Catholic country?
The Pope is washing Muslim's feet and called the Arab invasion a good thing, I think yes.
>>1069987
>?????
I'm not going to support your movement. I'd rather die than march with a group of "those gays" in defense of their right to fuck in public.
>inb4 "muh slippery slope"
Whatever.
>>1069985
They are fleeing the sinking ship that is /pol/. I'm not defending those threads but it's understandable.
>>1069994
Or you can just let it die under its own weight, it's clearly not sustainable
>>1070002
I'm not from /pol/ and what type of
>i'm not defending those threads
don't you understand?
>>1069991
Big deal. No one practices religion in the west. It's not because the Pope did a good PR campaign that Islam is growing in Europe.
Also
> Vatican II
>>1069956
>t. degenerate faggot
In lieu of arguments, You're just accusing me of being part of that group you don't like, in spite of zero evidence, and the syntax of my original post revealing that I identify as a heterosexual.
Why do you get to decide what I am for the purposes of your argument?
If you are even capable, imagine, right now, if I just decided on a whim that you're a latent self-hating homosexual, in spite of you saying nothing about your personal life?
What credibility would that lend to my argument? None. Same applies to you, friend.
When engaged in discussion with an ideological opponent, you don't get to decide what they are. They do. Otherwise they will be unable to assert their position without you distorting it. It is in the simple interests of discourse. Don't build a homosexual strawman version of me just to dismiss my quite simple points.
If I had a dollar for every time a drooling fucktard employed this technique... It's okay though. I won't lump you in with a political group I don't like. I actually have the social tact to regard you as an isolated case of Sad Moron.
PS: I thought you didn't care, and that you just didn't want to hear about it. If you don't care, then why are you trying to "sniff it out" in others like some kind of desperate homo watchdog?
> honestly have no interest in hearing gay people defend their right to talk about swallowing dicks loudly in public.
Never heard this line of rhetoric in my life, from a gay person. "Give me the right to marry. I love swallowing cock."
Sorry your only source of information on the homosexual community are eccentric corners of pride parades, and that you miss the nonvocal majority of low-key gays.
Appreciate that heterosexuals engage in similar behavior after sports games and during Mardi Gras. Some like to be loud and proud from all walks of life. Most like to just exist.
> Fuck you and your high horse
Says the guy calling others degenerate with an upturned nose.
Saged and reported for not /his/ related.
>>1070002
And being vocally opposed to it like you are just emboldens it
>>1070003
>I'm not from /pol/ and what type of
No, but you should make threads like this one on /pol/, OP.
>>1070008
Well, are you gay, or aren't you gay? You may be more or less emotionally invested in your argument, based on whether or not you are. It's important to know. I assumed you were because I've literally only heard gay people deny the existence of gay or LGBT culture or whatever you want to call it.
I'm calling you degenerate because gay culture is degenerate and I assumed you partook in it. Maybe you don't know how memes work here. "t. X" is a meme. It doesn't detract from the content of the rest of the post.
You can call me a latent homosexual if you want, I really don't care what you call me. I think you're degenerate, even if you're merely defending this culture and not a part of it.
>>1070024
I'm not fucking OP
>>1070024
I just wanted to let you know that everyone else reading this thread thinks you lost the argument and that you probably are a latent fag.
>>1070024
Yes, I have a personal investment in seeing that people I care about aren't treated as pariahs.
No. I'm not gay. I was raised by lesbians who lived their life in private and never once talked loudly about licking pussy at the dinner table. Neither did any gay people I grew up around. They were all quite civil, and not interested in the promiscuous nightclub lifestyle you're trying to invariably associate them with.
>>1070027
Hard to tell
>>1070045
I haven't seen anyone make a good argument yet, though.
>>1070047
>They were all quite civil, and not interested in the promiscuous nightclub lifestyle you're trying to invariably associate them with.
Are you a #NotAllMuslims fan, by any chance? I'm not talking about all gays, I'm talking about behavior that's common among the gays I know. I know plenty of gays who don't do those things, as well. You can't pretend "Those Gays" don't exist.
>>1070024
>You can call me a latent homosexual if you want, I really don't care what you call me. I think you're degenerate, even if you're merely defending this culture and not a part of it.
PS: Einstein, if you actually read my post, you would understand that that's the last thing I'm interested in doing.
>>1070070
Literally any argument can be reduced to >you're just naxalting
>>1070047
>I was raised by lesbians
Worse than aid and cancer combined.
>>1070008
>Appreciate that heterosexuals engage in similar behavior after sports games and during Mardi Gras. Some like to be loud and proud from all walks of life. Most like to just exist.
I know plenty of heterosexuals who don't do those things. I'm one of them. Stop generalizing while telling others that their generalizations are bad because they're general.
is Zizek autistic?
I'm curious, seems like he and Chris-Chan could have a long conversation about Sonic-chu
Pim Fortuyn is a historical figure so talking about him on /his/ is on topic
>>1070113
OP called this a "Marxist critique of ideology" thread, though. That belongs on /pol/, whether or not he wants to admit it. He even thinks /lit/ is a political board.
>>1069947
You don't need religion when you have nationalism
>>1070118
He's calling you names, not telling you you're wrong and trying to get you to change the way you vote. Namecalling isn't ad hominem argumentation.
>>1070119
>ideology
>not philosophy
>the other humanities such as philosophy, religion
>>1070082
> Stop generalizing
I literally said "most people like to just exist" you cherry-picking retard. That includes heterosexuals.
I have not generalized heterosexuals once in this thread, merely pointed out that your "degenerate" rhetoric could be extended to them if you decided to be generous with who you apply your twisted logic to.
You have failed to get my point every time, and supplanted your own points in place of mine.
Meanwhile, you have gradually changed your own point from "homosexuals are degenerate scum" to "some homosexuals are degenerate scum, and hey guys plz stop persecuting my people."
>>1070080
I tried combining them, but i'm not sure what the result is supposed to be. A cancer who becomes a doctor?
>>1070132
>I have not generalized heterosexuals once in this thread, merely pointed out that your "degenerate" rhetoric could be extended to them if you decided to be generous with who you apply your twisted logic to.
So because I call one thing degenerate, you immediately assume I can't call other things degenerate? You're the problem with modern Western society.
>>1070131
>ut if I want to discuss Zizek's "Sublime Object of Ideology" I should go to /pol/?
Yes, becauase it's the fucking politics board.
You've got a few screws loose.
You've got a political agenda.
>>1070142
Is science philosophy, ideology, or politics?
>>1070153
Science is its own thing, but out of those three it most resembles philosophy I guess.
>>1070153
I don't understand the significance of that question. The simple fact of the matter is that you ought to be discussing Zizek on /pol/. The Leftists on this site are either disingenuous or stupid for infesting places like /his/ and /lit/ while acting as if /pol/ is a place where it's impossible to discuss politics, rather than the place where they're supposed to discuss politics and which they've failed to dominate.
>>1070157
/pol/ became shit though (nothing against /pol/).
>>1070142
> So because I call one thing degenerate, you immediately assume I can't call other things degenerate?
No I didn't. You're merely insisting I did.
My overarching point is that, hey, heterosexuality on the whole isn't much less degenerate than homosexuality on the whole because both communities struggle from trouble with commitment, divorce, drug problems, promiscuity problems, etc. etc. etc.
But time and time again you have taken this to mean "Hey, gayz are gud str8s are bad"
> You're the problem with modern Western society.
See how my posts aren't filled with rhetoric like that? Try it sometime. I don't think your this big monolithic problem with Western society. Christ. I think you have some issues following my logic.
>>1070157
Žizek is a philosopher
One of the purposes of this board is to discuss philosophy
This thread was moved to >>>/pol/72619184
