>industry
>railways
>inventions
>nationalism
Is there a more awesome century than the 19th?
What is your favorite time in history, and why?
That last awesome thing cucked the 20th century completely
>>1063308
20th century because it had the most cool technology.
>electrification
>flight
>bullet trains
>TV
>mass production of aluminum and plastic
>space travel
>internet
>nuclear technology
>computers
>air conditioning
>home appliances
Some of these things existed prior to the 20th century but they weren't widely abailable until then.
>>1063308
i agree the 19th century is shaping up to be my favorite the more i read about it
>>1063308
>nationalism
>implying that's a good thing
>>1063443
A lot of anarchists, socialists, communists and left wing thinkers in general are from the 19th century.
If you don't like nationalism you can always pack your bags and move to a third world shithole :)
>>1063451
>anon, you have to pick either communism or nationalism
>>1063454
True.
Sounds like the spookiest century, OP.
>>1063308
>nationalism
>not the worst thing to happen to civilization since ever
Gas yourself.
>>1063476
this
>>1063464
Stirner posting needs to be banned
>>1063308
Any time before the rampant socialism today.
When you could live in a decent nation without expecting your earnings to be pilfered to pay for other's care.
>>1063451
The shittiness of third world shitholes are also caused by nationalism you dunce. Both by European colonials or native intellectual education in European Style Nationalism.
>Guys, we X now, based on European definitions of Nation!
>Y here, We're not X, I don't feel like being with you guys seriously if you're going to base this country around X.
>Ethnic conflict.
What's even sad is that Nationalism and Nation-Statism nearly tore Multiethnic apart Asian States whose people managed to live for centuries under a single state with other co-ethnics peacefully.
>>1063308
>Nationalism
>Basically WE WUZ
>Good
Anyway, 20th century had the highest highs and the lowest lows.
>>1063308
>nationalism
>not partiotism
BAKA desu sempai.
2nd century Rome under the Good Emperors sounds pretty great.
>>1063492
>rampant socialism
>today
Do u know what socialism is
>>1063515
Patriotism is just pseudo-natiomalism.
>>1063600
That when the country is culturally homogeneous, in which case they can coincide.
Patriotism is vital to a country's success, nationalism is not.
This century.
>internet
>games
>medicine
>music from any time period at the click of a button
>near instant global communication in your pocket
It's not really perfect, but I definitely wouldn't have wanted to have been born much earlier than I did.
Also if I had been born say 50 years earlier I'd be nearing death by now if I wasn't dead already. And I'm terrified of death.
>>1063308
550 B.C.
>Cyrus
>>1063308
18th century > 19th century
objectively
>>1063846
>Holy
>>1063308
20th century
Humanity at it's most efficient and delicate form.
>>1063476
So tell me what kind of shithole do you live in?
>nationalism
>not the ultimate slave master of man
kek
Anyway, this century is probably the best century mankind has ever seen.
21st century is looking good so far. Bit of a rough start but it's picking up.
>>1063719
Your post makes no sense.
>galaxy angel
>lucky star
>full metal panic
>haruhi
>touhou doujins
Was there a more awesome century than 21st?
>>1063509
Their problems are caused by the lack of nationalism*
>Multiethnic
>Ethnic nationalism
yawn..
>>1063888
How does being opposed to nationalism coincide in any way with living in a poor country? People from poor countries are often more nationalist than people from first world ones are, mainly because it's a simple ideology, any uneducated kid can understand that works perfectly with the tribal instinct.
>>1064561
>nationalism is a simple ideology
But i bet you have some skewed definition of it, that has some self serving agenda.
You really don't see how different cultures/peoples having their own nation state is beneficial?
Most conflicts of the world have nationalism as a cause, but this just proves that nationalism as an ideology works: because people desire it.
We westerners live in nationalist countries, but don't really acknowledge, admit or realize it.
>>1064566
current conflicts*
>>1064566
>We westerners live in nationalist countries, but don't really acknowledge, admit or realize it.
Actually there's a reason they're called "Nations". And no not all of us do.
Also give me a list of the benefits Nationalism has brought to humanity to make up for all the shit it's caused us.
>>1064566
Nation-states haven't been round for that long and nationalism for even less. With the advent of globalism and the ability to move information, capital and manpower across borders so quickly these days, the nation is becoming less and less relevant.
>>1063308
19th century
>you will never live in Belle Epoque Europe
>>1064603
& with the recent outsourcing of government work in the form of contracting, as well as the proliferation or supra-national orgs, sovereignty and the state itself is losing its importance
>>1064557
>Lack of Nationalism.
More like component ethnic groups being nationalist.
Ergo TOO MUCH nationalism
>>1064603
>Nation-states haven't been round for that long and nationalism for even less.
I hate this liberal myth. Nationalism has been around since at least antiquity. Let's take a look at the definition.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism
>loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
Now let's take a look at some of the things that Alexander the great said.
>Holy shadows of the dead, I’m not to blame for your cruel and bitter fate, but the accursed rivalry which brought sister nations and brother people, to fight one another. I do not feel happy for this victory of mine. On the contrary, I would be glad, brothers, if I had all of you standing here next to me, since we are united by the same language, the same blood and the same visions.
Addressing the dead Hellenes (the Athenean and Thebean Greeks) of the Battle of Chaeronea
>Our enemies are Medes and Persians, men who for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for generations past have been trained in the hard school of danger and war. Above all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. And what, finally, of the two men in supreme command? You have Alexander, they — Darius!
Addressing his troops prior to the Battle of Issus, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian Book II, 7.
>>1065854
>If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things Hellenic, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of the Hellenic justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorious Hellenes should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Kaukasos…
As quoted in "On the Fortune of Alexander" by Plutarch, 332 a-b.
>Youths of the Pellaians and of the Macedonians and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians… and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for as Greeks we should not be slaves to barbarians.
As quoted in the Historia Alexandri Magni of Pseudo-Kallisthenes, 1.15.1-4.
>>1065854
you are now aware that the 'nation state' and 'nationalism' are two different concepts with different meanings
>>1065861
I've been aware of that for a very long time. The guy I'm responding to claims that nationalism has been around "for even less" time than nation-states. I'm proving this wrong.
>>1065854
>>1065860
What a fucking idiot you are. Nation =/= Nation States
>Giving the CLASSICAL Greeks as an example.
WOW THE PEOPLE WHO *DIDN'T* LIVE IN A NATION STATE.
>Giving Alexander as an example.
WOW, THE PERSON FROM A PEOPLE WHOM SOME GREEKS CONSIDERED BARBAROI.
Also
>"EVERY BAD GREEK IS A BARBARIAN AND EVERY GOOD BARBARIAN IS A GREEK."
>>1063492
>living in an age of globalization and unprecedented corporate power
>why ar tagxes sdil a thing fugging sogialism :DDD
>>1065894
>What a fucking idiot you are. Nation =/= Nation States
Again, I was responding to the claim that nationalism is a recent construct, not that nation-states are one.
>>"EVERY BAD GREEK IS A BARBARIAN AND EVERY GOOD BARBARIAN IS A GREEK."
He didn't say that. Just here he makes a differentiation between Greeks and Barbarians fighting for him, and those who aren't. At no point does he say that those Greeks are Barbarians, or that those Barbarians are Greek:
>There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia.
>>1063451
>anarchists, socialists, communists and left wing thinkers
>implying these are even close to being the same thing
>implying that these are even somehow mutually exclusive to nationalism
well, anarcho-syndacalism and social libertarianism (i.e. how the rest of the world understands libertarianism, and not the hyper-capitalist wet dream that American libertarians understand) are both corrosive to nationalism.
It is sort of both amusing and sad that Americans are so brainwashed to be 'neo-liberal normative', that they've swallowed the bait so deep, they believe the tools that will save them are anathema to civilization. Humboldt, Adam Smith, all the classical liberals are rolling in their graves today at what the current American right believes about them.
>>1063764
Why be afraid of it? Everything that lives dies. We are all equal in that. Enjoy the time you are on this planet, and try to leave it so that others may enjoy it too (we only have one to share).
>>1065860
>equating Ancient Greek concepts of kinship with the modern day nation state, and WITH MODERN ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS
wow.
>>1063850
>Shit
>>1064550
"Only" instead of "that."
>>1065904
Are somehow implying the two are incompatible?
19th Century is my favorite too OP.
Though I think post second world war 20th century was best time to live and grow up.
19th century has all the best stuff though. Industrialism, best of scientific revolution, nationalism, last parts of European imperialism. Even though life as British industrial worker in 19th century would had been absolutely shit though. Most of life under feudalism was better than 16h workdays as child labor in cotton-textile factory or coal mine for example. 19th century besides maybe interwar 20th century is one of the most romanticized periods in our history.
>>1063492
>implying capitalism isn't to blame for creating the huge gap in wealth inequality in the first place.
Rome has begun to captivate me of late, really don't know why above all others though. But look at this motherfucker, isn't Caracalla a cool name?
>>1063308
>>1066466
>nationalism
embarrassing
I like how people on /his/ try to be as anti-pol as possible to conform with the other pseudo-intellectuals on this board.
Pro-tip: I don't like either of you.
>>1063308
21st:
you can see virtually any movie ever filmed
listen to any piece of music ever recorded
read any book ever printed
modern medicine
cheap and fast travel
>>1066511
>wealth inequality didn't exist before capitalism
>>1066696
Didn't say it didn't. Lrn2read, nigga. It always will exist, but industrial capitalism has flipped it to Warp 9.
>>1066700
No, it didn't. It actually allowed for social mobility which created the modern middle class.
>>1063308
18th
>fancy ass wigs clothes, castles, furniture, even wallpaper
>Grand Diplomacy, but done with tradition, by noblemen
>Balance of power only ever damaged by unforeseen events, like the death of a childles monarch
>none of that nationalism shit, questions of ideology were settled in debate, not war.
>>1063308
OP, you dumbass
you let people put the 21st(objectively the best century so far) by not specifying the past
>>1066511
>wealth inequality
>relevant
Sweden has a higher level of wealth inequality than the US. So what?
>>1066700
meanwhile the middle class was created in many parts of the world
>>1063443
It is, you've just been taught it wasn't and can't see further than your own ideology
>>1067215
Source?
>>1066700
Before
>You're exceedingly rich and of the aristocracy
>or you're poor as dogshit and spend every day shovling dogshit to narrowly avoid starvation
Now
>can be or become middle class
>thus, even when born into poverty one can go on to lead a life of being lazy and jacking it to Chinese cartoons all day
>>1067833
Maybe not higher than the US, but it is still not far from it.
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/05/wealth-inequality-in-sweden.html
>>1066511
It isn't. You think we have greater wealth inequality than between a landless medieval peasant and a feudal lord who owns everything, including the peasants themselves?
>>1067916
Would rather trust GINI coefficient
>>1068039
That's a measure of income, not wealth, you idiot.
>>1068107
>implying they're not reflective of each other
>>1063308
Mine is the 1900s-1914.
>>1068315
Before it all went to shit because of WE WUZ nationalist BS
>>1065909
>Again, I was responding to the claim that nationalism is a recent construct
It is
>>1068462
>nationalism is a recent construct
>>1068473
Yep
>>1068473
It pretty much originated with Napoleon.
>nationalism is bad
How did this meme started?
>>1069184
By nationalism being bad. I struggle to think when was it actually beneficial to anyone. The old empires were perfectly fine before nationalist fucktards ruined them.
>>1068164
They aren't.
>>1069195
>The old empires were perfectly fine
Which empire are we talking about here and how were they fine in any way compared to now?
>>1069227
Austria for starters.
>>1069233
I admire the Austrian empire but again how were they fine compared to the modern nation? Hell, even the great Metternich censors education and press to retain the status quo and lets not get into Bach fuckups during the later years.
>>1067261
>>1067846
I think George Carlin's comments on what the middle-class truly is are relevant here.
As I said, 'industrial capitalism' is the key here. A market system is great, but the creation (literal fabrication) of wealth by financial abstractions is an capitalism as an industry itself. This is extremely corrosive to democracy and liberty. It removes the ability of regular schmucks to have even a fraction of the economic mobility you think you have.
>>1067938
The wealth of 'feudal lords' is itself often exaggerated. They might have lived in a castle or estate several miles away, an maybe they had more wild boar and eels to eat, nicer wool with imported dyes, perhaps a bit more pepper and amber and other exotic shit, and a prettier wife and better wine or ale, but by and large they weren't living massively different lives from their tenants/vassals/serfs, etc. Some were the Koch brothers of their day, most were just your senior manager.
FWIW, I'm not really in favour of comparing totally different socio-economic models like this. Apples and oranges.
Try to run for even state politics, and tell me your wealth inequality isn't an issue.
>>1069912
>but the creation (literal fabrication) of wealth by financial abstractions is an capitalism as an industry itself
What do you mean by "fabrication"? The wealth is there and it is being generated. Just because it is not a physical product, doesn't mean that it doesn't have any value. Financial services are an essential part of the economy.
>it removes the ability of regular schmucks to have even a fraction of the economic mobility you think you have.
Why?
>>1063308
>>industry
>>railways
>>inventions
>>nationalism
Literally each and every one of those things originated in the 18th century. The 19th c. was just Age of Enlightenment 2: Electric Boogaloo.
>>1070168
>>1069959
Do you really know nothing about the '08 Financial Crisis? Perhaps you were too young to remember it...
>Why?
You'd be excused for thinking the rags-to-riches stories on the daily talkshows or CNN are typical, even in our GoFundMe generation. They aren't. There are outliers who get lucky now and then, but most expecting to make it rich with an investment portfolio (not a bad idea, mind you) are small timer at a carnival. A few stuffed toys and bags of cotton candy won now and then. Big whoop. The carnies are the ones making the money because they have the system set-up in their favour. Same with Big Finance™. And that's only for those who even try to make the markets work in their favour. The majority of ordinary joes do not bother, even in advanced western countries, much less on the global scale...
The founding fathers of Enlightment-era classical liberalism, of which all modern Western states (and quite a lot of those that aren't) are based on, never envisioned the scale of market system we have to. Granted they couldn't because industrial capitalism didn't exist yet.
>>1070174
I giggled, but 'tetrology' would be the more typical word for a 4-part series.
>>1069356
>compared to modern nation
They're so utterly irrelevant you could wipe Austria off the map right now and nobody would even notice.
>>1070807
What a huge exageration. What are your sources? The Zeitgeist movie and a few Bernie speeches?
>>1070807
>08 financial crisis
lmao
>>1063850
>Persian
>>1063492
lmao do you live in sweden?
>>1063308
Post WW2, pre 9/11.
>>1070964
>What a huge exageration.
Wow, you sure thoroughly refuted me!
My sources are countless pages of political/philosophical texts over the years, documentaries, news stories, etc. etc.
Not sure what 'the Zeitgeist movie' is, and I figured someone would eventually be all 'hurr ur just a dumb Bernibro durr'. I'm not American though, and these are things I've been aware since at least 2007-08, when the company I then worked for went bankrupt. Unfortunately for you, I'm not a reactionary 19 year old college student.
>>1063894
>'rough start'
>world's most powerful empire has their tallest buildings in their biggest city and financial centre, plus the HQ of the defence department, kamikaze attacked by crazy Islamists using hijacked commercial planes
It was a GREAT start, you can't make this shit up
