Were these the best borders in modern European history?
>Austra-Hungary
>Finland
>Cyprus
>Ireland
>Åland
>Russia in general
>>1059657
why would you think that?
not arguing just asking
>>1059657
If you like civil wars, yes
>>1059684
well, who doesnt like a good civil war now and again?
>>1059657
>Multiethnic states
No thanks
>>1059657
Russia and austria-hungary are retarded, everything else is passable
>>1059657
Spain in africa? No
>>1059657
This is the best map for Europe
>>1059709
>Swedish Livonia and St. Petersburg
I came in my blue and golden panties
>>1059709
>my usually ignored city is on the map
>Plymouth was relevant at one point
>feels good
>>1059729
we /pilgrims/ now?
>>1059704
Germany could indeed be better, I wouldnt quite call it retarded though
>>1059657
>1885-1914
what great times
>>1059657
It sure worked well last time.
>>1059734
Dismantle it land by land, but keep the Bundesliga. I mean right fucking now, fuck'em they tried to destroy Yurop too many times already
Wow. I just ran the calculations, and it turns out these were the best European borders, actually. Who knew?
>>1059763
>Ussr on the map....
>>1059739
>Borders alone caused the First World War
>>1059789
>national goverments that ran behind certain borders didn't cause ww1
>>1059798
>muh prussia stronk blob
>>1059798
wtf is that ?
>>1059804
that is literally the inter war period map, the border distribution that started ww2, a war that fucked up civilization
>>1059843
>the border distribution that started ww2
[citation needed]
>>1059858
so you're saying that german and Soviet desire to redistribute the borders didn't start the war?
>>1059798
EBIN GROSSE GERMANIUMSSSS
XDDD
No they weren't
Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Slesvig & Holsten, Estonia are all danish clay
fuck off
>>1059709
>HRE and Habsburg Austria borders overlap each other
This never made sense to me. Can someone give a simple explanation pls?
>>1059885
not habsburg austria
but the habsburg monarchy
which was a collection of several states (with their own laws, customs, governments etc.) whose head of state was held by the same person - a habsburg
some of those states were in the hre, such as the kingdom of bohemia or the (arch)duchy of austria
while others were not
>>1059657
>the biggest superpowers on the globe all sharing the same tiny backyard, all with expressed desire to expand their borders
No. The formation of the German Empire is infact the greatest disaster in modern European history, and those are the worst borders we ever had.
>>1059869
Of course. Expansionism and militarism exists independently of any given configuration of borders.
>>1059910
Who actually directly ruled those states then?
>>1059885
The HRE was just a loose collection of states with a largely powerless (sometimes powerful) emperor figurehead, it was not really a unified state, one of the reasons behind the >>> meme. Some of those states happened to be under the control of the Habsburg monarch.
>>1059926
what states? the states of the hre? or those comprising the habsburg monarchy?
the rulers of the latter were the habsburgs, hence the label of a habsburg monarchy
i.e. rudolf the whatever-th was the king of bohemia, archduke of austria, king of hungary, king of croatia and so on at the same time, but only some of those lands were a part of the hre
>>1059924
cassus belis don't. making your populace agree to the deprivations of what a war with either Britain a nation that could block all trade routes leading to your country or the USSR on whose energy exports determine the well being of your industry is a hard task, a task made easier if you can credibly claim that you're uniting the people of your nation that were wrongfully separated from your country by the redrawing of borders by your former enemies
and expansionism is literally the term for any action that tries to redraw a border. you wouldn't try to expand your border if you were pleased with you current one.. Do you see where i'm getting?
>>1060009
Sure, I get exactly what you're saying. All wars ever were caused by borders. It's stupid and reductionist. All states want more power, that is the nature of states. The question, then, is what made Germany think it could win.
The borders that ended up in fucking World War I that ruined Europe forever? Shit tier to be honest. All borders are as good as they are agreeable on.
>>1060049
no.. i'm stating that the second WW was caused by German rightful dissatisfaction with borders. I'm not saying that all wars are over borders: ww1 was caused by stupidity for example. Stupidity is also a reason Hitlers government thought it could win
>Schleiswig and Holstein
>Denmark don't control scania
>Russia bordering Sved
>>1059657
>Finland
>part of Russia
>>1060833
Not everyone is obsessed with overrated games and altuniverses where shitty Empires subsiste.
>>1059657
YES
E
S
>>1060841
>overrated
go back to your liberal art class. Fucking plebs hijacking my board
>>1060833
That's not Kaiserreich. This is Kaiserreich.
>Ireland under british control
TOICHFAIDH ÁR LÁ REEEEEEEEEEEEEÉ
>>1059709
>T**ks controlling the Balkans
Retard.
>>1059704
>>1059810
>>1059876
>>1059919
>t. wladislaw dubois
>>1061221
>Grossgermaniums
>Doesn't own Trent neither Styria.
Not Groß enough.
>>1059657
Too much Russia for my taste.
obligatory
>>1061566
>>1061566
Wouldn't it be more logical to give the German territory occupied by France to Belgium? Not only is Belgium closer to Germany in culture than France, but it would also create a healthier balance of power and prettier borders.
>>1059694
t. Moor
>>1061566
Germans would basically be majority in Holland, and Czechia. As much as i support dismantling of Germany, this is not something we would want to do.
>>1061838
>As much as i support dismantling of Germany
>>1061865
>a unified germany is a good idea
>>1059657
>Alsace-Lorraine not French
>German
>Empire
>Constantinople isn't Greek clay
>Belgium exists
>Ireland doesn't
lol no
>>1061872
If I'm not a butthurt Frog or Pole, why wouldn't it be?
>>1061887
Because they keep starting world wars and try to conquer europe.
>>1059716
>1700
>St. Petersburg
not really lad
>>1061890
>germany is united for 145 years
>it was at war for 10 of them
Lay off the memes son, I hear they cause autism.
>>1059657
Incomplete without Poland
>>1061897
>germany is united for 145 years
>>1059657
Fuck. Another one of these. Why aren't they banned like Hunger Games thread?
>>1061109
Let the turks have the god damn balkans, World war 1 and 2 would've never happened
>>1061897
>germany unites
>starts ww1
>allies leave germany
>starts ww2
>berlin wall is down,
>they build eu to annex europe
>>1061995
Those wars happened because the occupation drove up nationalism in the region. The turks should have stopped at Constantinople.
>>1061997
MORE LAND FOR GLORIOUS GROSSGERMANIA THE COUNTRY OF MY ANCESTORS AND GREAT BISMARK AND HITLER
>>1062047
This level of butthurt can't be healthy.
>>1062053
Stop ruining Europe.
>>1059763
Fixed :^)
>>1059709
English Redcoats get fucked come out ye black and tans I drove a saracen through your garden last night my old mans a provo oh we love you mrs. thatcher
>>1062489
The Irish, ladies and gentlemen.
>>1061109
>being this continually buttranged
whatever most coincidences with this
>>1062547
/thread
Were these the best borders in fictional alt-history?
>>1059664
Austria-Hungary had almost GOAT borders, if it wasn't for shitty Galicia extending from the natural Carpathian border.
>>1062255
>Finland under Russia
>Non-USSR Russia
>Half of the slavlands under control of the teutos
>Italian-occupied Lybia
>Arab peninsula nuked into nonexistence
Kek, except for one thing:
>My homecountry Albania is not split up between Greece and Yugoslavia or Bulgaria
Illyrian Albania to the Yugoslavs, Epirote Albania to the Greeks. Let's be honest, those are best borders.
>>1062676
>>samefag
>>1062547
>fuck thousand year old empires, countries should be based on DUDE LANGUAGES LMAO
>>1062706
my brain hurts
>>1062728
>I have absolutely no knowledge on the 19th and 20th century: the post
>>1062748
>I'm a retard: the post
>>1062786
aw fug u got me dere XD
Made this a while back.
>>1062959
>Greeks being minority in their country by annexing Constantinople
>Kurds living under armenia
Top kek. Unless you commit genocides bigger than the armenian genocide it wont work.
>>1062595
>wanting USSR Russia
The borders as they are now but
>Unified Ireland
>Belgium is merged into France and the Netherlands
>Moldova is merged into Romania
>Kosovo is independent
>>1062547
>germany is literally a boot stomping on the european continent
>>1062959
Fixed it for you, senpai.
>>1062972
>>Greeks being minority in their country by annexing Constantinople
>he doesn know what ethnic cleansing is
>>1059657
>>1059657
NO, GTFO
>>1059694
Spain is still in Africa, you nimrod.
>>1059843
>that is literally the inter war period map
>Alsace Loraine
>Parts of Belgium
>Schleswig
>A bunch of Poland
>>1062547
>macedonian
>real language
>>1063825
>Valencia,Catalonia and the Balearic islands in a union.
We hate Catalan scum here. We dont want anything to do with those muslim retards
>>1063640
PRUSSIA STRONK
>>1061221
>t. Hans-Samir Agbonlahor
>>1063825
those borders are bad and you should feel bad
>>1062547
>serbo-croatian
That's gonna be a problem.
>>1062959
>croatia without zagreb
>>1062959
>take Zagreb and Istria from Croatia
>give them a serb majority part of bosnia
>>1066133
It's Croatia 2
Okay.
>>1063083
I thought that map showed non-USSR Russia, my bad. In any case, after all those rows of greentext I was laughing about the scenario that ha been brought up except for the fact that my shit country still existed, that's all. I mean, why keep it there if everyone included me hates it?
>>1062547
this.
>>1067090
>I thought that map showed non-USSR Russia
It does m8.
>>1062589
>Austria-Hungary had almost GOAT borders
are you high?
The one and only reasonable solution.
this is the objective best europe
>>1067340
This one is cool, but the swizz is a special case were culture trumps language.
Also some groups such as lapps and aromanians are in such small numbers and intermixed with other greater groups in their areas that independence would be hard to practize.
Also I wouldnt touch the balkans at all, that would lead to wars again.
hungrians in romania seem to be ok with their insular existence as a minority too.
(also it would make romania a donut country which is just ridiculous.)
>>1067340
>giving cornwall it's own nation
>post 1799
>:^(
>>1067376
Well the jews managed to LARP themselve a new israelite nation together-ancient hebrew as national language included, so if you had enough fanatics living in cornwell they could pull it off.
>>1067447
we barely have enough IRISH people in IRELAND to pull that off, the last time anyone gave a shit about cornish was in the 18th century; even the people there that WANT a seperate country know they're literally english
>>1059657
They would be, if the Ottomans still had rightful control of the Balkans.
>>1059657
>belgium
>portugal
>disunited scandinavia
>balkans
try again
>>1059709
almost perfect
Italy is too fucked up
>>1059798
>Giving Montenegro to Croatia
For what Purpose?
I know that Prussiaboos know jackshit about history,but this is some new level of retardation.
>>1067340
Occitania is not a thing
Stop trying to make it happen
>>1068188
just use one they posted and paint over it
>>1069610
In the game it's not a part of Croatia, it's under Austrian occupation
>>1061221
good, another """"Empire""" to VERSAILLE
>>1068188
Victoria 2.
>>1069707
this desu
It could have happened in an alternate universe but it would have been about as politically stable and culturally unified as Yougoslavia in the 20th century. No leader ever wanted this to happen, and the Provençals have very little to do with the Southwest. Having a closely related language =! being a nation. If you try to go down that road we're back to the political divisions of the 12th century aka counties and duchies. Laponia is just as absurd, there never was a political figure or even a political organisation relevant enough to make it happen.
I'm from somewhere near the Pyrenees where some people still speak "Occitan" (actually Gascon) and while they feel a connection with other Occitan peoples, they would rather cut their own legs off than be in the same political division as Marseille or Aix.
>>1062728
>what is cognition
If anything basing your countries borders on the spread of the language of your people is the best thing you can do to ensure mental unity and solidarity among them.
>muh cultural diversity is ruining my country
It is in fact about language diversity. Name examples where immigration from one country to another posed a threat to the local social system when both countries shared the same language.
Mentality bases itself on thought and thought is based on language.
>>1069801
Can you post the Yugoslav flag?
Looks really nice.
>>1069801
>disgusting german blob encompassing many different cultures
>divided france
for what purpose?
>>1069893
here senpai
>>1069900
>muh czech germanic meme
>muh switzerland germanic
>>1069801
fixed desu, no reason to split France.
>>1062547
>macedonian
i can't stop laughing
>>1059657
No, the Habsburgs were literally fucking EUIV players, just blobbing everywhere with no concern for anything else, and their state is honestly horrendous.
>>1059657
No, because Portugal's border doesn't include Olivença, its rightful province (currently held, unlawfuly, by Spain).
>>1059657
The Hapsburgs are the best thing to ever happen to autism.
They just eat all the irrelevant nations and make one big country.
>>1059798
>Germanoboos still claiming all of Schleswig despite the northern part being majority Dane
>>1070691
If they're that great then why didn't they stay in Australia instead of coming to Europe?
>>1066287
>That portuguese border
EXCUSE YOU?
>every map here, even autistic "le funniez" ones, decides to wipe out or butcher Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia in favor of Hungary, Turkey, etc
>thus planting the seeds of endless civil war around the Danube
>>1070916
B-but muh Gross Ottomanums...
>>1067324
Are you retarded?
>>1070916
every autistic map like this is made by dumbfuck murricunt who thinks putting all europeans into huge empires will solve everything because its better to look at on the map
>>1059688
Nationcuck pls go
>>1062959
>Kosovo
>Is
>Serbia
>>1070916
Butchering the Balkans is par for the course when it comes to history senpai.
>>1059771
This is a bad thing?
>>1059657
Fixed it for you OP
>>1060869
Hope to god they create a new version for HoI4. Darkest Hour sucks balls
>>1071159
The USSR makes stormfags cry.
>>1059763
>Czechoslovakia existing
Into the trash
>>1069902
Post the other ones Senpai, or at least that Denmark one.
>>1071103
Like you could do any better pierrer. You would probably just make whoever you like the most on the continent bigger too.
>>1071237
I would balcanize the fuck out of every country world wide if i could desu. There is equality in chaos.
>>1071241
Shut up retard
>>1071250
Two-Face was right
>>1071262
>look up two face
>it's a cimic book character
Manchild lol
>>1071279
>he never watched Batman triology
What are you, an autist?
>>1071204
>or at least that Denmark one.
That's fucking ugly though
Looks like something a retard made in paint
>>1069801
>Denmark's flag is just the Raven banner slapped on the current Dannebrog
We also have a coat of arms, you know.
>>1069801
>Istria under Italy
love this meme
>>1063268
10/10
>>1059709
>Turks in Europe
>Turks everywhere on the planet
dropped
>>1071370
Forgot image
>>1067340
>sami fucking shits getting their own country
>parts of finland with a swedish-speaking MINORITY go to swedes
>no switzerland
>that absolute clusterfuck in the balkans
>>1059709
Dat bordergore on HRE
>>1062255
No kebabs?
>>1071372
>ebin grossgermanium XDDD
ITT: Autistic burgers, strayan shitposters and canadian fags trying to explain to Europeans how the nations whose borders were pretty much established 100 years ago with minor differences are fucking wrong, even though they mostly survived communism, the Cold War and WW2
>>1071891
If I was European, I too would be sensitive about my history, seeing as how it's all I've got.
>>1071908
>it's all we've got
What the fuck are you on about?
>>1059657
Daily reminder that Ireland unfree shall never be at peace
>Andorra and Portugal still exists
Disgusting
Objectively the best map.
>>1071950
>Majority are unionist and Protestant
>fuck it lets put them with the republic Catholics
Absolutely moronic Daniel
>>1071987
>Protestant v Catholic matters
>This is what loyalists actually believe
This is why Ireland will never be at peace until we're all communist atheists.
>>1071997
*tips ushanka*
>>1059657
nah
>>1072121
>french rhineland
>>1059709
>wanting the turks in europe
yeah no i wouldn't want even more muslims
>>1059798
trash
>>1067340
Only what you did in Iberia is enough to destabilise the whole continent.
>>1072121
Napoleon should have went for the Turks before the Russians.
>>1072599
or he could have fucking chilled out for a sec and consolidated his holdings
i know this because i play startegy games
>>1072789
ermahgerd
startegy germs
mah favrit germs
These are the best borders.
>>1059657
>no pan-european blobbing empire
get outta here
why dont you autists like the modern borders?
>>1071334
CROATS GO HOME
No fucking Italian Istria, Nizza, Dalmazia, Corsica or Malta? Fucking Pleb tier Croatian propaganda
>>1072835
Hello, Risk.
>>1062728
Empires, by definition, involve subjugation of foreign peoples. It's the worst borders, it only is nice if it's YOUR empire.
What could have been...
>>1073383
Disgusting
>>1067360
I love doughnuts, but I agree. We're just a fish now.
>>1059885
Imagine you 'rule' a federation of A, B, C and X, each with their own kings.
Also you are the king of X, Y and Z.
Y and Z are not in the federation, but you still rule them as separate kingdoms/states/nations but in the maps it's just "Anon's Monarchy (X,Y,Z)" with vague little names without borders.
>>1067342
>Independent Scotland
>United Ireland
Go home cuck.
>>1067340
The irony of writing Catalan Countries in Spanish instead of Catalan.
>>1076451
i don't really mind those two either way, i just think it's more aesthetic
>>1076451
>Seperating the white people from Pakistan makes you a cuck
What?
:-) Best europe
>>1076576
i don't even dislike this
i genuinely am ok with this
>>1067360
>Also I wouldnt touch the balkans at all, that would lead to wars again.
balkans are good in this one
for the first fucking time there would be some progress this way
maybe a highway or a corridor to connect enclaves
>>1059798
>>1059657
Best Germany
>>1077002
Best Gallia
>>1077009
Best Hungary
>>1077011
Best Spania
>>1077018
Best Italia
>>1077025
Best Burgundy
>>1077033
Best Sverige
>>1077042
Best Angloterra
>>1067340
>Ingria
>Carelia
>Occitania
>Aromania
>Frisia
>Sorabia
>>1077042
that's a big country
needs Poland
>>1077263
Swedes show the Poles some class, Poles show the Swedes not to be pussies. Its a Seth Rogan movie waiting to happening.
>>1067340
Valencians hate Catalonians.
Belorus loves Russia.
there will never be a perfect map Europe is too much of a shitshow lol
>>1059716
Tits or gtfo
>>1063825
Actually pretty reasonable. Only real issues would be giving Catalonia Independence if nowhere else in Spain, the Austrian and Italian borders, Southern Europe could use a bit of a cleanup, and just some minor border issues that seem to just be a result of the pre-existing regions on the map.
>>1059798
>Constantinople part of Bulgaria
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
We need to go Grosser
A perfect Europe.
>>1062547
>not pre-German displacement
What should be changed in this map?
>>1077841
back to /gsg/
>>1078797
>all this ottoshits
>>1080224
>independant brittany
>independant basque country
>german alsace
>german luxembourg
>>1077529
>Swedes show the Poles some class
desu Poland of that time was all about muh nobility, muh class, muh civilization
but it would be a good union.
swedish fleet, swedish infantry combined with polish cavalry = maximum anal rektage
>>1059657
>No Poland
Kurwa
>>1077841
>austria-hungary exists (Germans in denial)
>netherlands exists (Basically German)
>france exists (Conquered by Germany once, clearly german)
>switzerland exists (Mountain Germans)
>jylland is danish (Boat Germans)
>italy exists (Controlled by the HRE at one point, clearly german)
>the UK exists (Conquered by a Frenchman, France is German so England is as well)
Not GROSS enough.
>>1080224
32 county republic.
>>1080224
>not pre-German displacement
Why should it be pre-German displacement and not pre-Greek displacement or whatever else?
Oh wait I know.
PRUSSIA STRONK
>>1059763
>Yugoslavia
What a bellend. This was never supposed to work.
>>1076576
>That massive slaughterfest waiting to happen in the balkans
>germany tentacling out
>poland getting the award for europe's weirdest border shape.
>giving greece to the turks
Oh god the horror.
I like that norway tho.
This map shit is mlp or cunny or blacked or cuck for /his/. You can tell how knowledgeable people on this board are by the way they flock to this autistic faggotry
>>1059657
>borders that facilitated the fucking powder keg that completely destroyed europe and the modern era
>best
why you hate white people OP?
>>1059877
>T. Pröben
>>1080323
>>1080224
Done. Also made the difference between Catalonia and Spain more noticeable and made Transnistria independent.
What else?
>>1059709
Hapsburg empire was so lit
>>1080656
Åland (the cluster of isles near Sweden) should be Swedish rather than Finnish. And Königsberg is (sadly) as german as Sudetendland. That is, not at all after the forceful expulsion of Germans from the area.
>>1080669
Should it be split between Lithuania (Memel) and Poland (everything else)?
>>1080677
Well T B H its' like 98% ethnically Russian. Even though it looks terrible it's russian (Untill said russians are driven away with violence, which isn't something you should strive for generally.
