How is Christianity not a life-denying slave morality? I don't know a single devoted Christian who does not deny serious aspects of life, and live anti-Greek. Being Christian means to find some parts of humanity invariably "disgusting".
I just don't see the value in denying life.
>>1048546
Atheist are stills o fucking butt-blasted that they couldn't name a single atheist civilization that didn't turn to shit.
>>1048552
uh what? the concepts of atheism/religiosity are modern constructions
i'm talking shit on christianity, not religion
>>1048565
>not believing in God wasn't a thing until the modern era
>>1048546
>deny serious aspects of life,
>live anti-Greek
>some parts of humanity invariably "disgusting".
OP confirmed for faggot.
>>1048565
>uh what? the concepts of atheism/religiosity are modern constructions
>Who are the Epicureans.
>>1048597
>>1048552
It's true that there were very few societies without a "religion" but the concept of God has been so fucking polluted that comparing ancient concepts of it to the one's used in the last 2,000 years renders the word so vague that it's meaningless.
Nietzsche wasn't actually opposed to all forms of Gods, just degenerate forms of God: Christianity being such a degenerate God that it made people so disgusted with the concept we had to have massive atheism just to cleanse ourself of it's filth.
Nietzsche does not treat all religions equally: the Buddhists are better than the Christians and the Greeks were better than the Buddhists. Old Testament God is better than the New Testament one etc.
Good Gods are one's that affirm life, one's that are physical, real things rather than the Platonic inspired one's we had for the last 2k years. So for instance the ancient beleif that your race's kings and great warriors were Gods would probably be Nietzsche approved since these directly affirm real things in the world by exalting them to divine status.
Christians, who are nihilists, think the idea of a physical person being a God is ridiculous because they do not see how valuable humans are: humanity for them is a shadow on a wall, chained up, blinded and seeking sunlight.
You are better off literally worshiping the sun and water than the modern religions. At least rain and sunlight are real and it affirms the forces necessary for our nourishment. What the fuck does Jesus do? He dies for "sins", sins are a spook...oh and he's going to come back and kill a lot of people...any day now..I swear it's real this time
>>1048665
>maximum damage control the post
>>1048671
what? nobody cares what damage you think you did
>>1048552
Name a single Christian civilization that didn't eventually die.
Pro-tip: Europe isn't Christian, and none of the leaders in America take the religion seriously.
>>1048665
>Christians, who are nihilists, think the idea of a physical person being a God is ridiculous
We believe God became a physical person. Christ is true God and true man.
>>1048703
Russia you faggot.
>>1048671
The definition of God you operate on is not the same the ancient world did, nor is the definition of religion. This is something you need to consider when discussing religion of the past.
Would you consider the sky a God? For many people it was. In the past something didn't have to be immaterial to be a God. The concept of "atheism" can only exist when you operate on strictly immaterial Gods.
>>1048712
And what sort of God does Jesus represent? He's the God of the oppressed. A sickly, man who is oppressed by the Jews. This is the divine hero, who comes doing the divine dead of being a victim. He comes offering escpaism from the world and all the terrible things in it with death being the ultimate liberation and "triumph", escapism. This is an anti-God.
>>1048800
this
>>1048800
>This is an anti-God.
This seems like a baseless opinion.
>who comes doing the divine dead of being a victim.
So God is only ever a victim in the Bible?
>>1048716
Russians are the definition of "I'm spiritual, not religious."
>hurr you don't have to attend church to believe in God!
Eat shit, you fucking heretic.
>>1051169
>This seems like a baseless opinion.
Not when you consider the role of suffering in human life. Before the Abrahamic conception of the divine, suffering was always seen as a means to strengthen yourself. The gods existed as entities that were constantly at odds with humanity. They challenged humanity constantly, gave us sufferings to overcome, which in the end made those who overcame them grow.
In the Abrahamic conception of the divine, there is no growth possible. Instead we get an endless series of self-loathing diatribes that enrich absolutely no one. Any type of growth, both physically and intellectually is completely impossible in thee Abrahamic worldview. Instead, we're supposed to congratulate ourselves with sickness and weakness.
>>1051247
>Before the Abrahamic conception of the divine, suffering was always seen as a means to strengthen yourself.
This is a very broad assertion.
>The gods existed as entities that were constantly at odds with humanity. They challenged humanity constantly, gave us sufferings to overcome, which in the end made those who overcame them grow.
Christianity puts Adam and Christ at odds with each other in exactly this way, though.
>In the Abrahamic conception of the divine, there is no growth possible.
How much theology have you familiarized yourself with?
>Instead we get an endless series of self-loathing diatribes that enrich absolutely no one.
Again, baseless assertion. Many people have been enriched by Christian writings, which don't boil down to self-loathing diatribes if you read them properly.
>Any type of growth, both physically and intellectually is completely impossible in thee Abrahamic worldview.
This doesn't make even a bit of sense to me.
>Instead, we're supposed to congratulate ourselves with sickness and weakness.
No, we're supposed to strengthen ourselves to resist temptation.
It honestly seems like you're just fetishizing paganism for the sake of it and projecting things you don't like onto Christianity. It seems like you have no understanding of either Greek or Christian religion.
What is so bad about life denying? Judging by his followers Nietzsche sounds very arbitrary.
>>1048546
It's not life-denying to Christians because Christians define life differently. Life isn't all of this. All of this is just a waiting room for the "true" life, the afterlife. So to them, Christianity is life-affirming.
>>1048546
Hedonism is for shitters.
>>1051505
Nietzsche wasn't a hedonist
>>1051509
Not referencing Nietzsche, but OP.
To not deny any aspect of life easily leads to hedonism.
>>1051525
To deny meaning in life leads to hedonism; to deny God leads to hedonism; hedonism leads to death, and the death of pleasure.
Honestly, I find some parts of the Christian world view fundamentally unsettling. Like, the fact that this life is basically just a waiting room for some eternal judgement. It leaves me wondering why you never see Christians celebrating the deaths of loved ones that died with grace.
>>1051553
Many do. It's kind of a thing in New Orleans.
>>1048546
>How is Christianity not a life-denying slave morality?
Christianity is the belief that Jesus is God, and that He died for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day. That's it.
By confessing Him Lord, and believing the truth, you are resurrected to eternal life, and have a life on earth more full and abundant.
It's literally the opposite of what your spiritual father told you, and literally the opposite of what you believe.
Wake up. You're dead.
>>1051564
As is control. The id and the superego coexist.
>>1051564
And human beings are depraved.
>>1048552
Holy shit is this really something people take some? Can you really be that genuinely retarded
>>1048703
Paradise.
>>1051586
The two are not mutually exclusive, the one is a construction of the other.
>>1051237
You don't.
Sorry you are loyal to a worldly construct and not what it claims to represent.
"Lord, for sixty-so years I've surrendered my love,
to emblems of kindness, and not the kindness they were emblems of"
>>1051569
>By confessing Him Lord, and believing the truth, you are resurrected to eternal life, and have a life on earth more full and abundant.
The "life on earth more full and abundant" part is highly debatable. There is a LOT to be gained in hell. Everything that is intoxicating, in fact.
>>1051586
>Humans are also naturally cooperative, altruistic, social creatures.
Nope. Those are social conditioning.
If you don't believe in the total depravity of mankind, you cannot explain the Holocaust, the pogroms, the gulags, the killing fields, or a man chewing another man's face off.
>>1051617
Lock yourself in a closet, douse yourself with gasoline, set yourself on fire, and for the time you're alive, imagine it goes on forever.
That's hell. Real hell, not the hell you imagine as some sort of after party.
>>1051637
Hell is pretty fun for demons tho. In hell, being on fire like that IS the definition of feeling alive.
>>1051637
>Dude hell is fire lmao
That's a pretty fucking rudimentary concept of hell you have there pal.
At this point how do we know what a "Christian" is? There are so many thousands of mutually exclusive faiths and each of them considers themselves "Christian" despite their incompatible tenants.
At this point I don't care what some person or group who labels themselves "Christian" has to say, since why should I trust them? There could just as easily be another "Christian" who comes along right after them and claims the exact opposite of the first "Christian". Why bother.
>>1051659
Just know Plato. That's all you really need to know about the whole thing.
>>1051668
What did Plato say about Christians?
>>1051674
Uh, nothing, Christianity didn't exist back then,
>>1051678
Oh yeah because of the dates, I see.
>>1051674
Nothing, but the fundamental element behind Christianity starts with him more significantly than any other pre-Christian figure.
>>1051642
It's the same for demons. It was built to contain them, confine them, and eternally punish them.
It will hold humans who join their rebellion quite easily.
>>1051653
Yup. Plain and simple, as I am. Jesus says "Lake of Fire", I go with "Lake of Fire".
>>1051692
>and eternally punish them
That didn't turn out too well, since most of them derive pleasure from pain.
>>1051693
>dude hell is always Gehenna
What about Sheol punk?
>>1051685
Plato, Buddha, and Confucius, between the three of them, cover almost all the best Christianity has to offer.
Aaaaalmost.
>>1051659
A Christian is a new creation in Christ Jesus, alive with the Holy Spirit living in them.
If you have no way of knowing if a person has the Holy Spirit in them, i.e. you do not have the Holy Spirit living in you, then you can only go by what people say they are. You can try to judge their "fruit", i.e. the love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, gentleness, long-suffering that follows them, as they are the byproducts of the Holy Spirit in them.
Or you could ask them how they became a Christian, but of course you would have to know the answer (Romans 10:9-10). Most of the ones you'd ask have ludicrous testimonies that even you would know weren't real (born in Christian country, parents are Christians, baptized as infant, attend Catholic church, etc.).
>>1051705
Bully for them.
You're not as they are. You will not enjoy it.
>>1051709
Hades/Sheol gets thrown into Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, as virtually the last act of this creation:
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
>>1051734
They offer nothing of what Jesus offers, actually. Not one single thing.
>>1051740
>A Christian is a new creation in Christ Jesus, alive with the Holy Spirit living in them.
Uh what the fuck.
No I mean like the list of Christian Religion beliefs. Not this /x/ shit.
>>1051747
Not even ethical, metaphysical, or mystical doctrines?
>>1048546
Let's have a look at history.
Rome persecutes christians.
The inquisition and witch hunts persecute "witches" and "devil worshippers" that do "magic" (miracles) - Notice the date when black death appeared.
Psychiatry still hasn't been proven to have a clinical test that objectively defines who has a "mental illness" all we have is some photographs, and lots of words where "maybe" "could be" "must have" and other "probablys" appear. And those meds are known (search the internet) to make you unhappy, suicidal, anhedonic, etc.
It is still the same persecution of the same christians but merely pretending.
The bible says (and it has been modified to hell and back by those who hate mankind) that the devil hates humans.
Let's see an example:
Serve your enemies, love your enemies, be poor, be dumb, give your money away. Do not make sure if this is actually God, you do not try and test that it is "sin", humilliate yourself everywhere and die a virgin, be struck painfully by everyone and don't defend yourself and give the other cheek. God is "testing" you, not punishing you for following the wrong path. Pleasure is bad, suffering good. Your sexuality is evil.
So, in short, pleasure is "evil" and suffering "good", anyone able to tell me if these are not the words of a hellish fiend that hates you and takes you for a fool?
When you look for God and the Christ, you look with faith and skepticism, omnipotence is omnipotence, and a lack of convincing miracles is impotence, and you look from the perspective of freedom, from the one where you are loved and desired as you are.
>>1051747
> Not one single thing.
Pretty sure they all cover the basics like behaviors and morality.
>>1051768
>Yeah, they lacked the incredible marketability i.e. potentiality for indoctrinating the feeble minded like Christianity did.
>Confucianism
>Not the ultimate indoctrinator
>>1051741
I'm already in it, and it's a double edged sword, but the absolute life / truth is fucking boring after a while. You need a little bit of pain in your life to have any pleasure at all. The more pain, the more pleasure — until the pain kills you. But what does not kill you makes you stronger.
>>1051753
There are two. Jesus is God, and He rose from the dead on the third day following His execution.
>>1051756
Jesus offers the indwelling Holy Spirit to transform a person to eternal life.
They cannot offer that.
>>1051758
take
your
meds
>>1051768
>Only the uneducated, or highly deluded,
I must be one of those people, then, because Jesus is not offering you a new way to think.
He's offering you Himself, and demanding from you yourself.
![Facts-about-Brahmins[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7s7y87B.jpg "Facts-about-Brahmins[1].jpg")
>>1051806
Not really a unique aspect of Christianity, a lot of religions have a similar mystical "holy" status.
>>1051819
And as I said, see the evidence of a guy that hates me for saying the truth.
Be dumb he says. Consider yourself crazy.
>>1051793
You're not, actually. I doubt you think you are alone, in the dark, and on fire, screaming and bumping into screaming things in the darkness.
These are your "good times".
>>1051825
Nope. Do this and that, and become like God. That's the satanic gospel. Clean yourself up. Enlighten yourself. Follow these rules, and be judged more good than bad.
All from satan.
>>1051659
Trust the one group that stayed the same for 2000 years.
>>1051841
Buddhism doesn't even have a "satanic gospel" idiot.
Categorically they are the same, I don't get why you think Christianity is a special case among human religions.
>>1051843
Which one?
>>1051824
>Jesus is not offering you a new way to think. He's offering you Himself
Who he is/was was a byproduct of mixed philosophies from the past. Christianity is not a philosophy by definition because it does not offer a way to think, but rather demands others to live its doctrines which are the end conclusions of a philosophical tradition. It's essentially a philosophy put into action. Just like how Hitler was mixed philosophies put into action, too. And there we also see demands for followers, and doctrines thrown onto stone tablets over everyone's heads.
>>1051659
>>1051753
If you meant that
"Apostolics" (Anglicans and Lutherans claims to have valid succession too, I refer to nominal claim and/or control of 4 Apostolical capitals):
>Syriacs (449 AD schism)/"Nestorians"
>Copts (451 AD schism)/"Monophysites"
>Catholics and Orthodoxes (1054 AD schism)/"Papists" and..."Patriarchists"?
Protestants (broad term):
>Mainline Protties/and*Anglicans
- I was taught in school first Protestants were - Lutherans, Calvinists and Anglicans, but some will not agree.People like Zwingli, Luther and Calvin influenced theAnglo reformation, but it was mostly political(see - Apostolic schisms) reasons for heresy.You know the story well, right?
>Restorationists(Jehovahs and Mormons mostly, but also that "Unitarians" and "Unversalians", funny considering so many beliefs had theories similar toTrinity)
Basically that shit which is not too modern, but doesn't "fit" the well established prottiestantisms. I'm surpriseBaptism and Pentecostalism didn't steem from this honestly.
>"New Religious Movements"/New Age tier shit (usually batshit insane, alike to Pentecostals or Baptists who are most of accepted for some reason protties),I think Moonism/Unificationism steems from this? Or were they Restorationists?
People who accept Nicene Creed are almost universally accepted as Christians. There was some definition for that I forgot, like that interIslamic gathering which denied sim. right to Ismailis.
But Protties see only people steeming from reformation as Christians (you see"Catholics are not Christians", BUT Orthodoxes who have almost same doctrines are not viewed as ones either, I hate that lack of precision), Cathodoxes see only themselves as Christians(can accept earlier schisms or not), divide & conquer basically and I have no idea for pre-Ephesians and pre-Chalcedonians having not talked to so many.
Arians and"Aryan Brothers" (Poland, Czechia, they took refugee status there)would view themselves as Christians, but don't accept Nicene Creed.
>>1051863
He is God.
>>1051872
OK I'll look up this creed.
>>1051890
Whatever fucking retard.
>>1051890
>Follow the Buddha into hell.
How is minimizing suffering in your life equivalent to going to hell at all?
>says nothing about good and evil
>does not talk about punishing or praising anyone
>admits that suffering is a natural phenomenon
>aims to provide a simplifying lifestyle to calm you and alleviate your suffering
>THIS SHIT IS FUCKING SATANIC GUYS
>>1051900
And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
It's important to know that at the time, "catholic" meant "universal", not "Roman Catholic".
>>1051894
Playing God as much as Hitler did, and you fell for the ruse.
>>1051949
Hitler died and stayed dead.
Jesus didn't.
Your ability to spot Christ from among Antichrists is poor.
>>1051872
I forgot to mention before that there were movements like Hussites, Lollards and even Christian Gnostic renewals (Cathars, Bogomils).
Later Protestantism greatly refered to those traditions, Baptists even claimed to be spiritual successors of Cathars - toppest of keks.
Aside that other ancient heresies were renewed during reformation like Iconoclasm and Arianism.
Note - Jan Hus viewed himself as Catholic till his death by burning. You can see it as more of a national/nationalist renewal than anything even. Like our Dymitriads, they even helped us at the Grunwald/First Tattenberg, sadly we didn't gave them support back during Second Hussite Wars.
>>1051872
Thank you for this information.
I guess I'll comment that from my instincts, the fact that you have all these schisms pretty much debunks the entire concept from the get go. It seems like since it's possible that there can be division at every possible point of contention, which forms an exclusive paradigm, it undermines the credibility of any interpretation.
This is why I can't take Christianity (Collective) seriously since it has mutated to be as diverse as possible yet ought to represent an unshakable eternal truth.
This is above and beyond my personal skepticism in supernatural events.
Just a personal critique, I am not a scholar.
>>1051859
There's only one, it won't be hard to find it.
>>1051964
>This is why I can't take Christianity (Collective) seriously since it has mutated to be as diverse as possible yet ought to represent an unshakable eternal truth.
It is the knowledge that Jesus is God, risen from the dead.
That is unshakable eternal truth.
>>1051972
I'm talking to the other guy who actually knows what he is talking about. I'm done with your shit. Learn to fuck off when you are not wanted, you autistic faggot.
>>1051957
Doesn't change the fact that in the physical world right now, you, your scriptures, and other devotee retards have an interest in throwing people into places of burning like Hitler did.
>>1051986
He gave you a list of people who are not even nominally Christians.
You have zero discernment.
>>1052010
That doesn't wipe God's hands clean.
>>1052010
And who says we shouldn't remain seperate from God?
Have God his realm, and have us humans our realm. I really don't see why humans need to become one with the divine
>>1052006
He actually provide /his/torical information to go off that I asked for, instead of haikus and "SATAN", you obnoxious lying ignorant shitstain.
>>1052010
Actually, it's God that does that. He could choose not to. We're basically trapped in God's cosmic basement, and given a choice of sucking his dick or getting tortured for eternity.
>>1051247
This guy gets it. The origenal Gods were neither good nor evil, they represented and affirmed all the real things on earth. Just as ocean provided people with food it also destroyed their cities. So water is divine because it's represented by Posiden. But you have to wrestle with the Gods/the waves just as much as they give to you.
Confronting Gods makes you stronger, confrontation in general makes humanity stronger. Christianity has taught that all "suffering" all "fighting God" is wrong. The very thing that gives power is made into a vice.
>>1051576
>>1051569
>And human beings are depraved.
>Wake up. You're dead.
An anti-God for those that hold anti-human views
>>1051632
>If you don't believe in the total depravity of mankind, you cannot explain the Holocaust
Killing is a part of nature dumb-ass. Animals kill each other times, the well organized ones such as ants even commit whole-sale genocide. Not to mention meat is murder and your own body is regularly killing millions of bacteria. Death is built into the system. Basic biology should tell you that without death the world be completely unsustainable and fucked over.
Rejection of death is just another way of being life-denying. This is why so many ancient religions had Gods that represent both life and death similatiniously (Kali, Feirya) or had some sort of way of connecting life to death in the divine realm (ie seasonal Gods like Persephone that rise and fall): to communicate and celebrate this part of the world, death.
The fact that Christians see something as basic to life as death as "wrong" shows how sickly the religion is.
>>1051900
You're welcome.There were many different variations of this,I am not sure about the name.
Actually there was one agreed upon definition of aChristian-Alike to that interIslamic gathering,but it included belief inTrinity.
I guess it was an ecumenic compromise or something similarly.
And theIslamic gathering was to resign from fractional and denominational/sect infighting in face of the newZionist danger, naturally.
>>1051944
Roman meantUniversal too, first usage of termCatholic was bySt.Theodosius.
They're synonymous hence you see it called"Roman Catholic"-Even if member is Byzantine Catholic,or follows Gallican orMozarabic rite even.
Romania was"Universal Empire"in the eyes of people of time.Fall of it was seen as literal DDay,people believed the world is ending.
I know what you mean-Look up full name of the mainSyriacChurch-Holy Apostolic CatholicAssyrianChurch of theEast,this is embodient of theAssyrian nation itself (others are in union with Alexandria, what West Syriac means). You think they're in Union with Rome?Of course no,they're not.
Problem is too many people claim either Catholic or Orthodox and even both titles at the same time,I've seen Catholic apologetists callingOrthodoxes faux-Orthos and saying only Catholicism is really orthodox. Mixing the mixture with.
It's even funnier on theSlavic grounds where there is no native name forCatholicism(for us at least),but Orthodoxy is called Prawosławie (Right-believer),it makes you complicated when you speak of previous schisms because they use the term Orthodox(or Catholic) too. How to call them-Ortodoksi? OrientalniOrtodoksi? Add the fact Eastern and Oriental meansTHE SAME FUCKING THING.
Semantic details.
This is the sole reason I refer to each of the Apostolic by the Apostolic capital they have Apostolic succession to-Roman(Catholic),Constantinopolitan(Orthodox),Alexandrian(Coptic)and Antiochian(Syriac).
It makes way more sense, but I was bahsed once or 2 for that on/xtian/for lack of elaborate.
>>1051964
>the fact that you have all these schisms pretty much debunks the entire concept from the get go.
Your conclusion is an irrational emotionally driven one. It doesn't logically follow that because someone broke away then the original is incorrect. And if you actually look into these schisms they aren't as big as you think.
>>1052027
Because if we didn't have to, they wouldn't have some way to feel superior to everyone around them.
What do you think "turn the other cheek" really means? That is not an act of concern for the other. It's an act of snobbery.
They have no other means of feeling power in this life, so they turn to the "divine", which is otherworldly. By turning this non-world into something more powerful and "right" than this world, they then find a means of establishing a value system in which they now feel at the top of. Because there's no question that every one of them is a human, regardless of the shit they spew, and no human is exempt from psychological premises behind their desires and actions.
>>1051806
Like I said, "aaaaaaalmost."
>>1052053
No I think the sheer scope of the splinter factions undermines the claim of Divine Inspiration. It's not irrational, it plays by the rules of the gimmick. If it's divinely inspired then why so many divisions?
But then of course, since the history of the church conveniently follows exactly as a byproduct of mundane anthropology, why even accept the divinely inspired "original church" as the default? Pitch it in the same trash that they so readily pitch all their rivals (perhaps into the pyre, since might makes right?).
>>1051632
Those aren't inherently depraved. They're just human actions, and whether they're good or bad is a matter of perspective and context. Being a social creature that's part of a society in a position where I'd rather not be killed (or have my face eaten), I judge such actions as bad, but there about this judgement that is inherent to the actions themselves.
Also, psychology and neurology have made vastly better strides towards explaining such things than your moralizing ever did.
>>1052025
Clean as the driven snow.
>>1052027
Which is why hell awaits you......
>>1052029
Yes, you love lies, and the liars who make up lies for you.
Nothing he said was accurate; nothing he said helps you determine who is a Christian, and who is not.
>>1052030
If you believe that, then pucker up.
>>1052047
>The fact that Christians see something as basic to life as death
Genocide is "death" to the immoral and godless, and just "basic to life".
If God exists, why and for what purpose does he exist?
>>1052153
Go back to /b/
>>1052080
It's the entire ballgame.
>>1052165
Fuck that noise. I desire eternal separation from any god that would even dare to offer such a disturbing ultimatum.
>>1052094
Men will never explain things better than God does.
>>1052180
And you will receive it, to your horror.
>>1052183
Considering the bible contradicts itself, I'd say God does a pretty lousy job.
>>1052188
I feel sorry that you are so diluted. I'm going to assume that you had no choice in your indoctrination and that it happened at a very early age. No God is going to save your wasted life.
>>1052194
Considering the bible never contradicts itself, I'd say you did a pretty lousy job reading it.
>>1052205
You mean how it contradicts itself on the date of Jesus baptism, last supper, crucifixion, and his last words?
>>1052202
God already saved my wasted life.
Which is why I'm recommending Him to anyone with eyes.
>>1052213
I mean how it does not contradict itself on any of those matters.
Do you know what a contradiction is?
>>1052179
The Gospel contains theological doctrines, ethical doctrines, and mystical doctrines. Y/N?
>>1052215
So you don't try to save the blind?
>>1052218
The Gospel just means The Good News.
The gospels do contain the good news.
>>1052223
On this medium?
>>1052230
So are you saying the blind can't use computers?
>>1052233
I suppose they could be listening in.....
Okay. The blind are in.
>>1048546
Christianity encourages a moral lifestyle. Being moral means sometimes avoiding indulgences.
If you take drugs for instance you are harming your body and damaging people around you as a result. Also in a society where drugs are illegal you are directly funding criminals and murderers.
That is just one example of how indulging in everything isn't a good thing, and refraining from indulgence is something Christianity encourages.
>>1052226
This is odd, I've never encountered a Christian who denied that the Gospels had theological content.
>>1052215
>Which is why I'm recommending Him to anyone with eyes of desperation
Ftfy. The self-sufficient don't need saving.
>>1052247
I'm assuming this person is a born again Christian
>>1052255
Some sort of Protestant, I'm sure; most likely American.
>>1051247
>suffering was always seen as a means to strengthen yourself. The gods existed as entities that were constantly at odds with humanity. They challenged humanity constantly, gave us sufferings to overcome, which in the end made those who overcame them grow.
Wtf are you talking about?
The ancient world didn't work like that. Gods were there to bless you or to be placated to not smite your dumb ass. Fighting them was asking for it big time.
The one major sin in Greek mythology was hubris of thinking you are in any way equal to them.
>>1052310
Not that guy, but the Iliad features mortals fighting gods and succeeding all over the damn place.
>>1052327
Is that true?
Keep in mind that Odysseus is an antihero, and basically the ultimate edgelord of Homeric literature.
>>1051948
>how do I hold all this circular argument gais
>>1052347
I believe Diomedes actually fights Ares himself, and the favoured offspring of various Gods are killed willy-nilly.
>>1051247
Really, you'd have to live in a post-Christian world to interpret Greek religion that way.
>>1052010
>people tortured and murdered by the fanatical elements of Christianity for believing differently for thousands of years
>lol no they did it to themselves our hands are clean
>>1052353
>He was the only human to be granted strength (with permission) to directly fight with immortals themselves and injures two Olympian immortals (both Ares and Aphrodite) in a single day. However, he still displays self-restraint and humility to retreat before Ares and give way to Apollo thus remaining within mortal limits. This is in contrast to Patroclus (who does not give way when opposed by Apollo) and Achilles (who resorts to fight the river Scamander on his own).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diomedes#Diomedes_in_the_Iliad
I hardly see how this supports the point. Diomedes doesn't try to compete with the gods in general. He's presented as a mature and virtuous individual who understands the limitations of all mortals and doesn't try to overcome them. The offspring of various gods are killed willy-nilly because of their own hubris or because of the actions of actual gods.
>>1052183
What do you base your faith on?
>>1052369
Regardless, facing the gods themselves wasn't out of the realm of possibility, and overcoming the trials given to mortals by the gods was basically the bread and butter of Greek myth.
Hubris was always disastrous, but there was more to it than just "thought they could go against the gods."
IK am not eerinlery sure that jesusu is actualk ycan be called hte jseusiu con of ogod nbevcuase of hte fact hat ihter is not in fact a jesusu chross utis actually a big jesus T and it says T for chrisT so itn fac his hname should be christ becaulsue nicknmames or e shorter for long names and i am certain his nickname was t and the romans tnnailed him to a big t in order to make fun of him and hthath wasdn ohywh gh
>>1052310
this guy gives a good counter point
>>1052327
Another good example is the Prometheus story. The Greeks actually celebrated their break away from the Gods with the Olympic torch ceramony.
One thing about Greek religion and all polytheism is the Gods are not the supreme force. There are actually forces stronger than the Gods which humans can tap into. For instance Fate in the Greek religion is supreme, even the Gods cannot stop it, in an opposition between a man and a God the man can still win if he is aligned with Fate. There might also be other meta-divine forces such as the primordial Chaos the Gods emerged from, or if you are Pythgorean the Math Magic that is the atomic nature of divinity.
Gods are stronger than humans but they are not absolute. The Promoethus story even says the Gods are afraid humans might someday surpass them. Contrast this with the Eden story (at least the current Christian version) and you get how Christianity is an inversion of the greek values. Prometheus is honored while the snake is called "Satan" and "the guy who fucked up everything"
and >Empire >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)17:46:54 No.1052356â–¶ >>1051428 Eh, portos are suebi anyway you can spin it. Besides Germans are white, so they're not going to lose their shit over "cultural appropriation" >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)17:48:13 No.1052364â–¶ I wish I could use most Viking names. In not Icelandic who who doesn't want sons named Ivar and Halfdan >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)17:54:38 No.1052396â–¶ Chandragupta H File: Soldiers on Panther.jpg (1.1 MB, 1800x1350) 1.1 MB Anonymous 04/24/16(Sun)06:46:01 No.1034128 [Reply]â–¶ What are the best and worst tanks of WWII in each of these categories? >Cost-To-Effectiveness Ratio >Reliability and Maintainability >Technical Specs Please explain and defend your answers. +269 replies and 45 images omitted. Click here to view. >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)15:05:31 No.1051499â–¶ >>1037684 >Started out as an interesting and unique tank early in war >Eventually gets spammed to hell and back until enemy drowns in them It is a meme. >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)16:03:13 No.1051778â–¶ >>1050999 >That almost-10% wasn't much in the long run, but it came in 1941 when the Soviets were fighting for their lives It didn't. The vast majority of American Lend & Lease came from 1943 onwards. >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)17:02:46 No.1052128â–¶ >>1051141 That is assuming that the USSR would have collapsed without the relatively small amounts of lend-lease aid that made it over in 41-42. I am far from convinced that is the case. >> Anonymous 04/27/16(Wed)17:47:36 No.1052360â–¶ File:
>>1052385
>Regardless, facing the gods themselves wasn't out of the realm of possibility,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris
>Hubris was always disastrous, but there was more to it than just "thought they could go against the gods."
I honestly don't understand what you want to prove with this line of argumentation. That Christians don't think people can defy God? That's absurd. Christians choose to obey God's will for a specific set of reasons. That implies that others go against that will. You're defying God right now. Your argument makes no sense to me.
>>1052425
In Christianity God is a moral absolute, this is why you follow him, for moral reasons. It's a clear choice between evil/disobidence and good/obdidence.
This is particularly troubling when the good/obidence presents life-denying values and destructive values and the "evil"/disobedience is often unavoidable or even critical for life.
In Polytheism the Gods are more like natural forces, you adopt yourself to them rather than take orders from them. This usually means working with them, the same way you work with natural forces (ie to adopt to the force of water don't hang out in storms), it will also involve taking benefits from them (fishing) but it occassionally opposing it (building damns).
This is an approach that gives far more agency, there is no good/evil, the Gods like any human or force just have certain patterns. The Greek religion operates on Nietzchean good/bad, while the Christian on good/evil...at least until Plato introduces moral-faggotry
>>1052453
>This is an approach that gives far more agency, there is no good/evil, the Gods like any human or force just have certain patterns. The Greek religion operates on Nietzchean good/bad, while the Christian on good/evil...at least until Plato introduces moral-faggotry
Nietzsche was operating on what are now outdated understandings of ancient Greek religion. It's fallacious to refer to "Polytheism" as if this implied any common belief among its referents beyond the belief in multiple deities.
Look at Brazil or Haiti if you want to see the results of your ideas in real life.
>>1052425
I don't want to prove anything but the fact that people can and did defy the gods in Greek myth and it carried a very different connotation than it does in Christian myth (see the other guy's earlier point about Prometheus versus Satan).
>>1052405
Snake is not satan, but ok.
What did God say about the tree of knowledge? "If man shall eat of the tree he shall become like us"
>>1052463
Polytheism is inheritly on good/bad morality rather than good/evil.
In a polytheistic model the supreme force is some sort of meta-divine realm which is the source of Gods (ie like a primordial element). This force will always trump the Gods. There are also multiple Gods each with their own wants and needs and thus different moral imperatives. The Gods are also always fighting and can overcome the other's moral imperative. The only real consistent thing is the rules of the meta-divine realm. Humans may also be empowered from the meta-divine by magic without a God (they may even banish or protect themself from a God with it). Morality is subjective, hell sometimes there isn't even a clear difference between Gods/demons they may just be "spirits"
Monotheistic model drops the meta-divine realm, has one God who's morality is absolute. Witchcraft is a no no since it implies some sort of force outside the Gods. There is a clear distinction between good and bad spirits. Morality becomes objective.
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=180030.0
>>1052405
This guy gets it.
With a small mention that in early versions of the story, Zeus was considered the good-ish guy in the whole thing.
He had every right to torture poor Promethers.
>>1052500
What's your point? I'm honestly not interested in reading an atheist Jew's interpretation of ancient religions and modern Christianity. I'm forced to do that enough as it is. Kaufmann is one of the most uninteresting big names I've ever encountered. It's a shame he's so closely attached to such an interesting thinker as Nietzsche.
>>1052483
That's why I said I was specificinally referring to the standard Christian version: the snake is Satan, a liar, and sin.
The older interpretations did not have the snake being Satan, the snake was not lying humans did become like the Gods (plural), an there was no concept of sin.
Remember Genesis is story written in a time when Judaism was very different, probably polytheistic and viewed their relationship with spirits in a different sort of way.
>>1052488
Just the bible clearly states the snake is a snake. And satan is someone else. Remember that all snakes lost their legs as punishment because this snake did the thing
>>1052528
So what are the consequences of the Devil not tempting Eve?
>>1052516
What bible do you have?
>>1052516
>Remember Genesis is story written in a time when Judaism was very different,
Genesis isn't a single written story, it's a synthesis of various myths floating around ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia.
>>1052425
I wasn't a part of your conversation chain, but:
>Christians choose to obey God's will for a specific set of reasons. That implies that others go against that will.
That does not imply that. Those who are prepared to obey and wish to, will obey; those who can, but don't want to, will rebel; but then there are also those who are not equipped to obey, so they will not by nature.
Not everyone is equipped to obey. Some are meant to be rulers in and of themselves; they are not privileged to be second in command to anything. To be second in command would be to live in an untruthful way to themselves. It is not a matter of choosing not to obey, but a matter of which obedience is an instinctual impossibility. Following the demands of another would be a painful, bizarre, certainly not redemptive experience.
In this sense, God does not give a choice to this type. God is demanding and harsh, he is binding and cruel here. Deny the existence of this type all you want. And if you say that this type simply "needs faith" because it will work out in the end or something, well—God's pretty fucked up if admittance to his chamber requires literal torture, and now we can talk about whether such a being even deserves to be listened to.
Snake is an animal, satan is a title given to the angel whose job it is to accuse humans and the devil was a trickster figure that first appeared in stageplays (his catchphrase being "ho ho ho! Aren't I a character?")
>>1052568
>Those who are prepared to obey and wish to, will obey; those who can, but don't want to, will rebel; but then there are also those who are not equipped to obey, so they will not by nature.
That isn't true, though. Christianity is a universal religion precisely because it teaches that everybody has the capacity to be saved.
>>1052575
It's ignorant of the third type. Not everyone can be squeezed into "obedient" or "rebellious" types. Natural born leaders, geniuses, are outside these categories.
>>1052581
You're the only one imposing these categories. For God, there are two types: sinners and saints. Any human has the capacity to be either.
>>1052586
God is arrogant and thinks there doesn't exist demigods among humans.
>>1052510
I'll bring it back around with this conclusion.
Since polytheism has a subjective morality where we adopt ourself to forces of the world...and polytheism has an objective morality with absolute commandments. Eventually monotheism has to start becoming life-denying. Because whatever the God declares "evil" cannot be affirmed, while in polytheism because everything has some sort of God or spirit associated with it (and every God has it's uses) everything can be affirmed.
There is no problem of evil in the polythestic philosophy. In the long term the absolute morality of monotheism fails, we see that "sin" is essential and inseperatly from life and "evil" is often something to cherish rather than condemn. A non-degenerate religion goes beyond good and evil.
I will add though that some versions of monotheism manage to affirm to evil with some degree of success. In some versions of Judaism God isn't a good guy, he's not evil either, he's beyond that. This is also the Gnostic God Abraxas who represents a fusion of all opposites including good and evil. The Zoastrians had a theology where their devil figure is actually a hidden part of their good God. Christianity has failed to provide a way to affirm evil, maybe some new theology where Satan and God are worshiped in equal parts would work.
>>1052613
I'll add that I have to go, if this thread is still up I'll return.
>>1052375
The finished work of the risen Christ Jesus.
>>1052613
>There are no demigods among men
You're ignorant then. We've had many natural-born leader types throughout history. You can find smaller versions of this type all over the world, too. Anyone who exudes a type of natural-born confidence, talent and humility, that others naturally feel inclined to look up to, is of this type.
It is like blaming a fish because it can't climb trees. You ask the fish to perform an action it is not meant for. This is foolishness, and wanting to punish the fish is arrogance.
Like I said, you can deny this type all you want. You deny it because it is the bane of this entire sham.
>>1052483
Literally the lie satan told.
>>1052508
Zeus is based on Adam.
Prometheus is a type of light bearer; Lucifer.
The Greeks just deified people and renamed satan. Over and over again.
>>1052633
You're a statist, I get it. That doesn't mean there's no God above all other powers. The existence of superior men demonstrates only that humans have supernatural capacities, not that they are gods.
>>1052516
>The older interpretations
This is such bullshit. If you want to say "the gnostic interpretation is far different from the Judeo-Christian interpretation", that's one thing. To infer that our interpretation of the bible is substantially different now as opposed to then is just a lie.
>>1052539
The devil did tempt Eve, and did deceive Eve, and Eve disobeyed God. That was not the problem. That was only the beginning of the problem.
The real problem is that Adam, sitting right there the entire time, also ate. He was not deceived; he willfully sinned and joined in satan's rebellion.
That act caused them both to die; they had been created immortal, with the Holy Spirit of God in them, but they sinned and death entered into the world. And brought with it pain, and sorrow, and suffering, and disease, and curses.
The consequences of Adam disobeying are horrific. Mankind was condemned to go to hell forever. Everyone.
>>1052556
>myths
Spotted the heretic.
>>1052581
Everyone can be separated into two categories; sheep and goats. Living and Dead. Believers and Unbelievers.
There is no third category for people; you're either with Jesus, or against Jesus.
>>1052664
>The existence of superior men demonstrates only that humans have supernatural capacities, not that they are gods.
I didn't say they were gods, but DEMIgods. There is a difference.
And if this type exists, then asserting that being separate from God always makes you a rebel is wrong, and asserting that being separate from God always means you will burn in hell makes God a cruel dictator.
>>1052697
>you're either with Jesus, or against Jesus
Ignorance.
What about animals? Are they all doomed to burn in hell, since they are completely out of the loop on this? Is a wolf that leads the pack because it was born bigger and smarter than the others going to burn in hell, since it naturally leads the pack and feels itself as master of its territory? That poor, ignorant fucking wolf if so. If only it spoke a human language and heard our wisdom to follow Jebus.
>>1052613
>But God's will is a force at work in this world.
Christianity does not have one go with God out of a pragmetic approach but out of a moral drive. The polytheistic model has no more absolutes, Gods represent forces of nature and you go with them as it benefits you: if you are a farmer you don't care about the war god you worship the nature or rain God.
In Christianity it doesn't work this way God is just "good" and you do what's good. These are two differnet philosophies.
I explained what the negative effect of the philosophy of morality as the supreme guide.
>>1052599
>>1052716
Yes.
Yours.
Matthew 12:30
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
--Jesus of Nazareth
>>1052716
>What about animals?
What about YOU?
>>1052823
Of course Matthew would be ignorant, since it seems like the entire work is ignorant of this third type. It completely denies life's capacity to produce great leaders, precisely because the work is surrounded by followers (and only the mediocre follow by natural inclination).
>>1051504
contradiction in terms, bud.
>>1052862
We know it makes no sense. Christians don't though, they think they make perfect sense.
>>1052845
Yes, God and God's apostles and God's prophets and God's Son are all inept and ignorant, and only you know what's really going on.
>>1052872
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
>>1048546
Because those aspects that are disgusting are aspects that are harmful to civilization.
>>1052909
Not inept, but ignorant, apparently so. But it's not surprising, since this third type is very rare, and the mediocre cannot conceive of the type since they are mediocre.
>>1052913
Then why have so many Christian civilizations fallen and why are there so many great ones who weren't Christian at all?
>>1048665
>Buddhists are better than Christians
Says someone who knows nothing about Buddhism
Just because mainstream churches are morally bankrupt doesn't mean Christianity is
>>1048719
Ancients didn't necessarily worship the literal sky and had very floaty concepts of what was divine and what wasn't
Also Nietzsche saying Christianity is a death cult isn't because God is immaterial, but rather because they preach of an afterlife where everything is infinitely better meanwhile he believed the afterlife was not much different from this life so you shouldn't live in denial of your will because of it.
>>1048800
Jesus taught the sick to embrace their own will to power rather than be slaves to conventions like the law
>>1053050
>meanwhile he believed the afterlife was not much different from this life
He didn't bother with the Christian notion of "afterlife" at all. To him it was a non-concept, irrelevant in essence, and anyone who views his philosophy as nihilistic does so because they have placed their values into this non-concept. Those who place their values in this life rather than outside of it do not see any nihilism in his philosophy.
>>1053060
Slave morality is indeed the Will to Power of the slaves.
They overcome their master by inverting his values. Since they cannot directly fight the master they use morality and other spooks to force the master to disarm himself.
They resist the Master's own influence by just turning everything upside down, the Master's good becomes their evil etc.
Nietzche even calls the Pharisee and Saudecee "aristocratic" in contrast to the Christians (remember in Nietzsche vocabulary aristocratic is good). He saw Judaism as a religion with much life-rejection (just read the first few lines of Ecclesiastes "Everything is meaningless") but the one thing they managed to affirm was their group identity and the soverntity of their law/priesthood. Christianity comes and denies that last thing that kept them out of nihilism: the Law they revered is now a "prison", their high priests are now "synagogue of Satan", and finally even the very sacredness of the Jewish identity is denied in favor of a universialist approach. As slave culture inverts everything the "chosenness" of the Jewish identity is also inverted in later Gospels (particularly John) and God becomes an anti-semite.
>>1052720
>In Christianity it doesn't work this way God is just "good" and you do what's good
God is many things. God's good is simple, but that doesn't mean that God has no predicates but goodness. You're oversimplifying things.
>>1053144
>(remember in Nietzsche vocabulary aristocratic is good).
??
Read "Degenerate Moderns" by E. Michael Jones. Nietzsche wanted to go to Africa and live like a savage and intentionally gave himself syphilis.
>>1051237
Looks like attendance rates are increasing, if gradually. Russia is still a Christian civilization, pulling itself together after it was hijacked by the communists. look at the increasing role the orthodox church is playing in public life.
>>1053074
Well, that's the core of the matter, isn't it?
Atheists find Nietzsche life-affirming because he denies the afterlife like they do.
Christians fined Nietzsche nihilistic because he denies the afterlife, which they do not.
That's going to be the core of your whole reaction to Nietzsche. Do you believe in life after death? If you do, Nietzsche is lunacy. If you don't, the whole world is lunacy and Nietzsche is the only sane man.
>>1048546
>implying the knight of faith isn't superior to any egotistical "overman"
>>1053545
>implying Nietzsche wasn't the true valiant hero in the face of the tyrannical church of "faith"
>>1053518
Yeah, that sounds fucking credible, considering modern diagnosis on Nietzsche is that he died of fucking brain cancer, you schmuck.
>>1053535
>Atheists find Nietzsche life-affirming because he denies the afterlife like they do.
But that's wrong. Atheists find him life affirming because he advocates embracing life and living it fully. His denial of the afterlife is a non-issue.
Nietzscheans find Christians life denying because their entire belief structure turns life into a cosmic waiting room before the real party.
>>1048665
This X1000
None of the repliers got your point. Christianity is not practical, it's just a blanket. A safe space from the real world.
>>1048703
>usa
>russia
>boland
>eastern europe
>everything in europe that isn't those shitty muslim nations in the balkans
