does chance even exist?
this has been puzzling me for weeks
take a dice roll for instance, surely the side it lands on is a result of conditions being in play since the dawn of time
the only way to prove chance exists is being able to go back in time to that dice roll and have it be a different number which would be impossible
rewinding a film doesn't change what happens
could someone explain this to me or point me in the direction of some books, i can't wrap my head around it
>>1036510
Quantum fluctuations.
By explain do you mean you want us to tell you why it is not true? Because it definitely is true. Our consciousnesses are just passengers/prisoners locked in a brain locked in a body.
>>1036510
Everything that will be has already been determined to.
>>1036510
>rewinding a film doesn't change what happens
It does if it breaks.
"Chance" is a byword for the myriad of infinitesimally small conditions we are neither capable of observing or calculating in any practical time frame.
>>1036563
Except the painfully obvious one : if everything is merely an effect of an initial cause, how does this cause emerge ?
>>1036510
Scully is cute!
CUTE!!!
>>1036510
no, probability is literally just the measure of human ignorance.
>>1036510
Short answer is we don't know. It honestly depends on quantum physics but I have not studied that nearly enough to give an intelligible answer.
>>1036510
consider this
the point of rolling dice is essentially taking choice away from everyone involved. Two men roll the dice so neither can affect the outcome of the decision-making process. It doesn't matter if the dice is weighted to only deliver '6's, it doesn't matter if the dice only provides prime numbers. for that ONE self-contained dice roll, as long as the aptitude of the dice is unknown to both of them, it's up to chance.
Chance is the point at which the driving factors of the event are invisible. You flip a coin because the gusts of air and the position of the coin as it strikes the table are impossible to measure with your senses. We don't flip a big tortilla because the angle with which the tortilla would hit the table is easily observable and predictable with our senses.
If we were an advanced alien race with powerful senses, we might find rolling dice silly because our muscles could easily toss the dice and predict the angle of impact with the table, making the roll no longer up to chance. Quantum unpredictability is a legitimate school of thought when it comes to chance but in your daily life all that random events are is predetermined events out of human observation. They were always going to happen, but that's not a denial of probability, it's just the way time works.
>>1036563
No it's not. At the quantum level, all events are statistical, not deterministic.
>>1036510
Chance exists, but only in the form of unknown data. For example, people go to Vegas to gamble because they don't know if they'll come back rich or broke. Thus, they're taking a chance.
If all factors could be known ahead of time, there would be no chance, but since they can't, these people are literally rolling the dice. As do we all, since the most we can approximate is the percentage rate of occurrence of an event.
>>1036563
>Everything is predestined. You will dwell on it for a while, but that is important to do. Any argument you will find that is against this is very ridiculous
t. I am guessing because I know nothing about modern science
There is a whole train of thought dedicated to this, it's called determinism. What gets more fucked up is if you start applying deterministic logic to humans as well. Do we have 'free will' if we are just biologically determinant machines? Is everything we do simply dictated by a bunch of biological processes?
There's theories about quantum consciousness and such, which may mean some of the processes in the brain don't follow a string A caused B which causes C logic, but there's not a real lot of evidence for it yet from what I've read.
>>1037438
Yeah, this. Think entropy.
>>1037639
>There's theories about quantum consciousness and such, which may mean some of the processes in the brain don't follow a string A caused B which causes C logic, but there's not a real lot of evidence for it yet from what I've read.
Even if such evidence were ever to surface, it doesn't enable "free will".
You can't will what you will. Whether or not your will is determined by way of chance or causality is irrelevant - it's beyond your control in either case, because you act as a puppet who can neither see nor manipulate the strings.
>>1036510
Galilleo studied this phenomena near the end of his life & found it wasn't random
>>1038457
Galileo thought the speed of light was infinite. Galileo was doing science we learn in high school.
Galileo had no inkling of the physics of the smallest scales.
>>1037438
Unpredictable is not the same thing as truly random
