What the fuck was his problem?
Nothing really. His mother was a Christian, he was most likely raised Christian, and it clearly had an influence on him as he got older.
He recognized that roman society wouldnt stand for religious unrest and thus attempted to stamp out a single agreed upon doctrine for the entirety of the empire.
He carried the same beliefs politically which is why he reunited the empire.
>>1196914
>He recognized that roman society wouldnt stand for religious unrest and thus attempted to stamp out a single agreed upon doctrine for the entirety of the empire.
Oh damn those tolerant chill worshipers of old god's. All those christian sects who are just waiting to cut each other throats are so much more civilized
>He carried the same beliefs politically which is why he reunited the empire.
5 heirs - 3 sons who hated each other fiercly, and 2 nephews - one of them in Constantinople(!!!). Total war guaranteed.
>>1196992
Constantine didn't persecute any pagans. His major act was stopping persecution of Christians altogether. He did this because his mom was Christian, and because Jesus was the God who responded out of the countless ones he prayed to before a key battle that would determine whether or not he'd be Caesar. He continued to be a pagan himself for the most part until his deathbed, when he converted.
>>1196902
He has no job so he just shitposts on /his/ all day every day.
>>1196992
I know right how dare he not see the future. Dumb mother fucker..
>>1197010
>>>1196992 (You)
>Jesus was the God who responded out of the countless ones he prayed to before a key battle that would determine whether or not he'd be Caesar.
Yeah Eusebius is so reliable source...
Also Galerius accepted him as a Ceasar after his father died in 306, so 6 years before Milvian Bridge. Of course it was against the law, he was just usurper. Just like Maxentius.
After Milvian bridge he still wasn't only ruler, first he had to kill the rightful ceasar Maximin 2 and his best buddy, rightful augustus and brother-in-law Licinius
>>1197010
>Jesus was the God who responded out of the countless ones he prayed to before a key battle that would determine whether or not he'd be Caesar.
Nah, jesus was the only god who could forgive him killing of his own son and wife. Oh and it was after he had decicided what is the rightful christian doctrine in Nicae. How cute.
Not to metion, he changed his mind later.
>>1197197
>Yeah Eusebius is so reliable source...
At least as reliable as Herodotus.
>>1197257
Killing your wife and child weren't really things that required forgiveness by the pagan gods, if there was a decent reason.
He didn't vote in Nicaea, he just called it together and demanded the bishops decide. His personal friendship was actually more with the Arians.
>>1197301
>At least as reliable as Herodotus.
No one considers Herodotus to be a reliable historian.
>>1197310
But everyone considers him to be a valuable and useful historian nonetheless.
What the hell OP means with that answer?
Constantine is one of the best emperors of Rome, he played very clever and achieved political reunification. Also, has distant he could be from Diocletian, he didint remove any reform this one did, instead He updated them for better.
Damn, maybe hes the last of the TOP emperors.
>>1197301
>Killing your wife and child weren't really things that required forgiveness by the pagan gods, if there was a decent reason.
He asked Sopater (pagan neoplatonic) what should he do to erase this crime, and Sopater told him that for such things there's no atonement. Only then he seek help in christianity, because Hosius told him that christ can forgive every sin
>He didn't vote in Nicaea, he just called it together and demanded the bishops decide. His personal friendship was actually more with the Arians.
He personaly made the decision. First he was like, Arius is right, but then he was like, nah Arius is wrong. Probably Hosius convinced him. But he was the one who made the decision about "homousios" and it was against the majority of folks. No one dared to protest, apart from these 2 guys who were banished...
Constantine was less religious and more pragmatic than modern atheists or Christians believe him to be
>>1197548
Dude, its more probably that Constantine died as arrian than ortodox/catholic/howuwanttocallit
He was close to "semiarrians", like Eusebius from Cesarea and the one from Nicomedia.
>>1197548
>He personaly made the decision.
The Council of Nicaea was determined by a consensus of bishops
>>1197550
>Nice goal post shifting.
That's not a goal post shifting at all. The point is, just because an historian is "unreliable" doesn't mean you can't ever be used as a source.
>His endorsement of christianity was a mistake when you look at matters long term.
Helped preserve a Western identity, and kept Latin alive as a common academic language in the West.
>>1197355
Everyone looks at Herodotus' works with an entire mine of salt. If you're using him as your baseline, you should do the same with all of your sources, which you don't, so long as they confirm your particular views on Christianity.
>>1197562
Yeah because after Nicae he changes his mind and Arius was brought back
>>1197554
Most atheists don't think he was religious at all, they consider all historical state leaders to be amoral and cynical and without any religious or belief in God.
>>1197578
Arius was brought back after he revised his Christology
>>1197579
That sounds like confirmation bias on your part.
>>1197574
>The point is, just because an historian is "unreliable" doesn't mean you can't ever be used as a source.
Eusebius is not a valid source in and of himself for why Constantine chose to end the persecution of christians that the central government began in the 3rd century.
There are other reasons that make more sense then "Jesus is an actual deity", Constantine's mother was Christian and for that reason alone he was likely predisposed towards Christians.
>>1197596
Do you think Constantine believed in *any* deities? Do you think he prayed to any of them before the battle? Do you think Jesus might have been among them?
>>1197574
>The Council of Nicaea was determined by a consensus of bishops
Homousius - consensus of bishops, yeah interesting...
> The point is, just because an historian is "unreliable" doesn't mean you can't ever be used as a source.
The thing is, he told Eusebius this fairytale years after it "happened". You don't try to tell us that you belive in it right?
>>1197607
>>Do you think Constantine believed in *any* deities?
Probably.
>>Do you think he prayed to any of them before the battle?
Probably.
>>Do you think Jesus might have been among them?
Probably.
Do you think any of this is convincing for the claim that Jesus is an actual deity? Because it's not.
>>1197579
>>1197592
In academia Mr tripformoftheemperor, most do. Its the meme atheists outside academia who believe jesus did not existed, or constantine was not christian etc etc . The academical (where many scholars are atheists) consensus is that Constantines conversino was genuine.
Regarding morality, well you can believe in god and can do many fucked up things, also add to that the myth the following generation surround you.
Take a look at Saladin, esspecially how he rose into power the guy was basically a sociopath in his actions, but he became the noble knight due to european and arabic tales.
>>1197626
You don't need to bring religion to it ffs.
Whether jesus is the real god or not is irrelevant.
>>1197642
Every single non-religious academic account of I've read says Constantine's motivations were largely pragmatic, although it's true most are dated.
>>1197644
>>I think it's convincing for the claim that Constantine thought he was, and saw some sort of sign that made him believe Jesus was the one who aided him
And the only real source for this is Eusebius apparently, who was told this particular story years after the event happened. Not convincing, and just so you know, it's not hard to see anomalous solar behavior, ignoring something obvious like looking directly at the sun, there's also things like sun dogs.
>>1197663
>who was told this particular story years after the event happened
Like virtually all historical chronicles?
>>1197521
>literary wrecked Diocletian status quo.
>gained power by usurpation, treachery and killing allies - stalin's style
> his main achievment was promotion of destructive barbarian cult, foreign to roman traditions and mentality
>left the country divided as fuck basicaly in a state of civil war
>top emperor
>>1197745
Any and all mentions of supernatural events in historical works are seen as being fictional. Sometimes this goes too far, a lot of people thought Troy didn't exist and that there was no Trojan war for example, but we know better now. This doesn't mean we think the Greek deities are real though.
Similarly, we dismiss any and all supernatural events from other historical accounts as well, like Eusebius's for instance.
>>1197521
>>1197766
Eastern mystery cults had already surpasses Roman Paganism before Constantine. You don't have any grasp of history if yo think that Constantine introduced some foreign new thing to the otherwise homogenous Roman pagan society.
>foreign to roman traditions and mentality
And what are these exactly? "Roman tradition" and mentality had been dead to the Romans for a long time at this point.
>>1197766
> his main achievment was promotion of destructive barbarian cult, foreign to roman traditions and mentality
Except, that no.
>found Constantinople
>defeated more than 5 armies invading Rome
>Occupied Dacia again - an important province monetarily
>positive administrative reforms
>positive financial reforms
>>1197550
>His endorsement of christianity was a mistake when you look at matters long term.
How?
You really can't say that. Whether Christianity saved, destroyed or was irrelevant to the survival of the Roman Empire can not be said.
>>1197834
The used word was "promotion" not "introduction" good sir.
Eastern mystery cults were just a part of more or less peacefully coexisting spectrum of pagan polytheistic religions. Semitic monotheism was something that claimed that all of the rest is just shite, devils work and has to be destroyed.
>>1196902
arianism
>>1197766
Diocletian 'status quo' only remain when He was the emperor, that dude had the aptitudes to be emperor and at the end, He was the only Emperor and the others something like puppets.
By the way, Constantine aint destroyed the traditions and mentality of Rome, instead the crisis of the III century did. You know, more than 50 years with like 90?? emperors?? thats fucking worse than all the civil wars Rome had combined.
He didint left the Empire divided, his sons played really bad and then Julian had something of decent Emperor, but died stupidly. Fucking pagan.
>>1197922
He did not reoccupied Dacia. He just went there, burned some burns and senate grand him fancy title, that's all
>>1197983
5 heirs including 2 nephews. All of them hating each other. Seems like a clever strategy
>>1198082
Only one of them was the August, others were caesars, in other words, nothing.
But yeah, that kind of populated lineage was strange, more common on Middle Age tho.
