What is your opinion on Muhammad (PBUH)?
he sure did like fucking 9 year olds
Best proselytizer in history.
>>1025664
I feel like Mo was some of the more unique religious founders out there.
There's way too many ascetics, wilderness preachers, turn-the-other-cheek types as founders of religions.
But Muhammad? Fuck no.
>Im oppressed. Im taking my autism away from here.
>Im oppressed here as well. Fuck you guys, you asked for this.
Warlord and Major Religion Founder. No one else in history was like this.
>>1025664
Extremely effective leader/poet
No matter what you think of it as doctrine, the Qu'ran is beautiful. Listen to it chanted sometime.
>>1025698
>everyone wants peace
>muslims want to kill everyone and everything
im glad they got owned by the mongols
>>1025705
I frankly don't care. History is filled with way too many conquerors anyway for me to cry over people his movement killed. But the fact that he established a lasting religion makes him different than most of them.
>im glad they got owned by the mongols
Nice meme history. Many Mongols converted to Islam and the post-mong years of the 15th to 17th Centuries of the Middle East was a second Golden Age consisting of 3 major empires.
>>1025730
>you will never ride with the golden horde and burn down baghdad
God you muslim shits need to be slapped around every now and then
>hurrr quran is beautiful
>>1025747
>I'll completely avoid addressing the content of his post and try to offend someone who is obviously not a muslim by insulting islam...heh heh heh that'll prove'm wrong
His biography as per the Islamic tradition is almost certainly made up or at the very least wildly exaggerated. He most likely led a monotheistic 'revival' movement in Arabia with Jews and Christians under his banner and did not actually intend to start his own religion.
What does PBUH stand for? Person who Breaks Underage Hymens?
>>1025701
Me too anon, Often just have it on in the background while gaming.
Personally listen to this one. http://quranicaudio.com/quran/5
Hey, remember how the Middle East was the center of the world from the dawn of history up until Islam came along?
>>1025823
Peace Be Upon Hera. He was a secret Greek pagan
>>1025840
I wasn't aware Rome is in the Middle East.
>>1025840
They had a good run immediately after. Really the Islamic world wasn't total shit until the fall of the Ottomans.
>>1025664
I think it's hysterical how a dude can start a cult by simply saying that he was visited by an "angel" while alone in a cave. Ranks right up there with "he died for our sins" on the batshit crazy scale.
Just another example of how fucking stupid we are as a species, and shows how shit like scientology can exist, and will always exist in one form or another.
Fun fact, in the quran there is a story where Muhammad rides a flying donkey named lighting to Israel.
This is what muslims actually believe
>>1025903
Is the fun part where you realise this isn't in the Quran at all?
>>1025793
This is the true /his/ tier response. All others are crossboard memeposters.
>>1025951
are you saying the night journey didn't happen?
why is Jerusalem a holy place then?
>>1025988
I'm saying it's not in the Quran.
>>1025664
>"Hey guys, I was meditating in a cave when the angel Gabriel appeared to me and told me that I'm to be gods personal messenger......no, I was alone, nobody else saw him.......no, nobody can come with me when I talk to the angel, I have to be alone.......listen to this and obey, because it's coming from god."
Seems legit....
>>1026038
It was good enough for Mosses.
>>1026044
not to mention Jesus
>>1026044
Jew V.1: The followers of bullshit spewed by Moses.
Jew V.2: The followers of bullshit spewed by the supposed followers of Jesus
Jew V.3: The followers of bullshit spewed by Muhammad.
Jew V.4: The followers of bullshit spewed by Joseph Smith.
Will the Jew nonsense ever end?
I think not.
>>1025840
>rewrites history
The Middle East became the center of the world AFTER Islam arose.
>>1025866
and yet, here you are, 1400 years later and possible on the other side of the globe, hearing and talking about him.
Seems like God knew who to talk to, eh?
Also, to the shitposters.
Muhammad was promised to be wed to Aisha when she was 6ish. Dates and records were not kept until well after the prophet's death, but this is the estimate based on sources.
They wed when she reached puberty. That is the only fact we, without a doubt, can be certain of. because this was the common practice in Arabia, and most of the world, for most of human history.
We also know that people did not reach puberty until later in their lives. girls would not start menstruating until 14-16 years old until modern history.
Muhammad's first wife was also 40 when he was 25. Aisha, was probably 14-16 when they actually consummated the marriage. Aisha was also the daughter of the most influential politician in Arabia. She was going to marry someone important and older, no matter what. Her life was actually much better marrying Muhammad, than marrying the chieftain of a tribe Abu Bakr (her father) wanted to make peace with. She ended up being a teacher, and even led and army during the first Muslim civil war after Muhammad's death (Muslims literally started fighting each other the minute the prophet died).
Isn't this a history board? Why so many people believe in meme history?
>>1026038
The absolute pisser is that Mohammad knew it was satan when it happened, not Gabriel/Jibril.
>>1025669
I get tired after 7.
>>1025730
>I don't care that my "holy man" is an illiterate psychopathic murderer and schizophrenic demon worshiping pedophile; I like him because I was born muslim,
>>1025823
I thought it was peanut butter and honey.
>>1025832
Yes, Operative #82, we muslims are just like you gamers here in the west, with your video consoles and hand held controllers.
>>1025988
It's a holy place because God made it a holy place. It is a muslim holy place because they lied about Mohammad going there. And ascending there to heaven on a donkey named lightning, apparently.
After cutting the moon in half.
>>1026100
No need for any "gods" to talk about historical figures, anon.
We talk about Plato, Euclid, Caesar, Arminius, Xerxes, and Darius from time to time too, and they all came long before Momo.
They'll be talking about L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith long after we're gone, sadly enough.
>>1026113
That's just as dumb as the Gabriel story, anon.
>>1025747
The Golden Horde was muslim tho.....
>>1026100
Married at 6.
Married at puberty
Pick one.
>>1026147
When the truth is dumb to you, you have bigger problems than can be solved on a Sri Lankan spice trading board.
>>1025840
>tfw islam destroys everything it touches
>tfw it's destroying europe now as well
feels bad man
>>1026156
>religious bullshit
>truth
Choose one.
Pedo war criminal
>>1025988
Jerusalem is holy to muslims because muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem.... And also The Prophet Muhammed Prayed there with every prophet sent to humans since the dawn of man.
>>1026152
married != consumed marriage
Get the fuck out of my board /pol/ and take your fucking generalized history with it, jesus fucking christ
We can literally never objectively discuss Islam and its creators without a bunch of fucktards jumping in and ruining it with their post-modern political views on a 1500 year old religion
>>1026194
Rubbing your dick between a 6 year old's legs at age 54 is okay though, yes?
>>1026203
t. mohammad
>>1026203
>Raping 6 year olds used to be cool.
>>1026194
That's right. Polygamous marriage were used very frequently to support the wifes and daughters of your fallen comrades.
>>1026123
An illiterate man wrote this? God wrote this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZvNtzJ0QXQ
>>1026248
woah
>>1026248
That thumbnail tho :(
>>1026277
just your average muslim
>>1026203
4chan buys into all the memes surrounding Islam hook line and sinker yet insists that critics of Christianity hold a PhD in Theology. The sad fact is that Reddit is vastly superior when it comes to discussing religion
One of the worst men in history, the Antichrist, Satan's general and a barbaric uncivilised war criminal.
>>1026248
that was beautiful.
>>1026209
Find a single comment about the age of Aisha before 1800.
>>1025664
Mohammed fucks babies and is a nigger
>/his/ gets mad at pseudo /pol/-christians
>/his/ humors pseudo /pol/-muslims
What does /his/ mean by this?
>>1027193
>Lie twice
>Beg the question
What did he mean by this?
>>1026100
Most muslim scholars agree that they married when she was 6, and that they consummated when she was 9.
Do you claim to know better than them?
>>1025793
Is there someone I could quote on this?
>>1026113
This. Muhammad originally thought he was demon possessed. It was his wife who convinced him that he was a prophet.
>>1026338
>The sad fact is that Reddit is vastly superior when it comes to discussing religion
So why don't you go back?
>>1027193
/his/ is a well-known Reddit colony now.
>>1026123
He wasn't any of those things
>Muhammad was a pedophile
>People are unironically applying moral judgement to someone who lived ovet 2000 years ago
Christ, I'm not defending his actions but this is what the Romans and Greeks literally dis. Hell we even glorify it at occasions (boi pussy). Why is Muhammad the targeted one when plenty of conqerors/cultures have rapes/bedded underage kids?
>inb4 Mudslim
>>1027365
>who lived ovet 2000 years ago
are you from future?
>>1027376
Yes, he's from the future where Islam is the dominant religion of the world and those who insult the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) are dealt with appropriately
>>1027227
What scholars?
>>1027325
He was all of them. He is in hell right now.
>>1026248
Thanks for this
Fat pedo warlord.
Hadith were a mistake
OP's mistake is to start the thread by asking people's opinions. What is even more saddening is how these opinions didn't have any signs of attempt to be a high level of discourse.
>>1025664
A bright and resourceful man, who was able to transform the world with only a handful
desert barbarians, and found the first universal civilization. Who was able, alone, to boot up the decrepit sedentary world of its lethargy and fear, and promote one of the greatest human revolutions.
I find the fact that much of the Koran holds Jewish folklore as fact, the even the Jews do not believe to be true, as quite damning to it's legitimacy.
Muhammad being a merchant son would have heard these myths many times, and outright included them as holy history.
Such as the Jewish folklore that stated during the flood the giants were too tall to drown, so god boiled the flood to kill them by opening an "oven" I forget the name of. Had a specific title and everything.
Now, even by religious stories that's just stupid and inconsistent. But nevertheless the Muslim version of the flood incorporates a shorthand version of Jewish folklore stating the water came down from an oven. You will find no mention of an oven in the Torah or Bible, conversely. Just one of many flaws with Islam just from a historical view.
>>1025832
You sound like a huge faggot
>>1026131
Second generation Muslim teenagers tend to be very assimilated into western culture
>>1030150
Except they don't, and second and third generation immigrants end up becoming even more radicalized than their parents.
>>1030154
What are you talking about? All of my Muslim friends barely even talk about religion
>>1027365
The Romans were not pedophiles at the time of the republic so you can be sure they weren't in the 7th century.
Even if they sometimes betrothed their daughters early to older men, they wouldn't consumate the wedding until they were around 15 or so, and once again, that was more than 700 hundred years before Muhammed.
So if he did indeed (which is not sure), fuck a 9 year old girl, it would have been seen as disgusting by Roman morals of the time. Not only that, but you'd think a "prophet" getting revelation from a god would know better than to stick his dick in a just pubescent (if even that) 9 yo kid.
>>1030159
>but what about my anecdote?!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/radicalised-muslims-in-uk-more-likely-to-be-well-heeled-9754062.html
>>1030139
>Such as the Jewish folklore that stated during the flood the giants were too tall to drown, so god boiled the flood to kill them by opening an "oven" I forget the name of. Had a specific title and everything.
I don't recall such a story being in the Koran, nor does this criticism sound like it comes from a historical point of view rather than another religious polemical one.
>>1030150
It's just the opposite in the UK at least. Only 20% of Muslims aged 55+ want homosexuality to be illegalised, but the percentage gets higher in the lower age brackets, with it being 75% at 16-24 years old
>>1030154
This is a common mistake people make. There's no sliding scale of religious radicalism i.e. their parents were not radicalized in the first place. Radicalization is a direct result of assimilation into western culture followed by a rejection of one's place within it, rather than a failure of assimilation.
>>1030174
Older generations of Muslims are less radical and more traditional, while younger generations are susceptible to radicalization which is a completely separate phenomenon altogether.
>>1030185
Irrelevant semantics. The kids are radicalized and the parents are not, so the kids are more radicalized than the parents.
>>1030195
It's not irrelevant, the original point was about assimilation. Radicalization is not the opposite of assimilation (that would be traditionalism), but a negative reaction to having been assimilated.
>>1030111
He was just another warlord and he raped a child.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Age_at_marriage
It is only due to a quirk of history that he became famous, he was born at a time when Arabia was developing economically and had become a power of its own, making good use of cavalry like the Mongols. If he didn't exist some other warlord would end up being the founder of some political entity that would go on to spread throughout the crumbling Roman and Persian Empires.
>>1030202
Your insistence about there not being a sliding scale is untrue. 1st generation immigrants surely faced adversity and challenges when trying to assimilate, as do all immigrants, but they didn't set off and commit crimes against that nation. They still got "close" in the sense that the forces that encourages radicals today was likely encouraging them as well, but they resisted.
Each generation of immigrants has likely faced some sort of negativity in their efforts to assimilate. The difference between the generations is that the latter generations are far more likely to become radical. Therefor, the kids are more radicalized than the parents.
>>1030214
>Your insistence about there not being a sliding scale is untrue
Yet there hasn't been any evidence to the contrary. Generational gaps are not indicative of any kind of sliding scale, just an 'is-not' relationship. You also missed what was said about assimilation - it's not about the difficulty of the process, it's the end result. Radicalization was never an issue of struggling to adopt Western norms and find one's place within a normal Western society, thus it has absolutely nothing to do with the experiences of the first generation of Muslim immigrants. Radicalization comes about after full assimilation, when the children of immigrants have grown up fully assimilated into Western culture, but reject their place within it.
The great mistake everyone glosses over in assimilation debates is that assimilation is the target goal that leads to happiness, and thus a counter against radicalization.
>>1030161
Pederasty was THE Greco-Roman national sport. I don't know what you're talking about.
>>1030203
Anyone else read about the story where a caravan left Aisha behind when she looked for a piece of jewelry she lost? A guard brought her back to Muhammad but his rivals spread rumors that she cucked him with the guard.
Muhammad literally is recorded as having a NTR breakdown over this until Allah assures him that Aisha was innocent.
>>1030203
>pedophilia and rape are bad
>"individuals don't matter, it was inevitable that someone would do the same thing" leftist bullshit
back to tumblr
Muhammad existed, but most details of his life are debated and mixed up in the myth making of early Islamic civilization. His biography is the result of some hundreds of years of sectarian and theological argument, and an entirely new field of scientific history is created centuries later in order to collect and rationalize his biographies and sayings. It wasn't imposed from above and there was no conspiracy then and now people use words he never said, in a context that never existed, to legitimize behavior he could have never understood. You can always tell who are /his/torians and who should fuck off back to another board or to a nonexistent /rel/ by who starts arguing points of history directly from hadith like they were chronicles.
>>1030203
This is a very retarded opinion, my dear. I will not even get into your abyssal anachronism, which is ridiculous in any case.
It is difficult to apply the definition of "warlord" for someone who has developed one of the most stable, durable and efficient systems of human history.
It is too easy to gather a bunch of riders and set fire to the world. The Huns did it, the Mongols did it, and countless people before. There is no merit in it.
Now, with a band of riders , conquer not just 1/3 of the known world, but the hearts and minds of its inhabitants? Erecting a virtually indestructible civilization, continuously expanding, penetrating the remotest parts of the world, converting to its cause the fiercest foes, and regenerating from complete ruin as if nothing had happened?
Very few have a legacy minimally close to Muhammad.
>>1030258
This, Aisha didn't seem to become a broken shell because she had to sleep with a 40 year old man.
She became the most faithful and educated Muslim of his wives, and even stayed a political force until Ali defeated her faction at the battle of the camel.
It helped th at Muhammad let her keep a remnant of her childhood with her after marriage. She still played with dolls with Muhammad sometimes playing along and had friends her own age still be allowed to visit. She even got along pretty well with his older wives, even when they knew Aisha was the favored wife.
Despite probably sticking his dick between her thighs at 9 and sexing her at 11 he seemed to be a good husband.
>>1025664
A murderous and illiterate pedophile.
>>1030233
Pederasty is not pedophilia. Do you really think the "youths" of the sacred band of Thebes were 9 years old? And good luck open pederasty in late Christian Rome.
>>1030288
b-but my postmodern agenda!
>>1030288
Byzantium and the Sassanids, although enfeebled were still huge civilized states with a functionning administration around which the new caliphate organized, just like the mongols did after conquering China. Where you are correct is that this caliphate was turned into a long standing civilization thanks to Muhammad's little cult, there is no denying that, but Islam was only one of the pieces explaining the success of the caliphate as a state.
I honestly don't understand why his name causes so much butthurt on /his/ of all places. I understand why he's hated on boards like /int/ and /pol/, but this is /his/, and his historical legacy is immense, his success is huge.
Must be all those Eastern Europeans posting here I reckon.
>>1030318
/pol/ and /int/ like to impose their shitty country flag culture on the blue boards
Caravan-raiding bandit leader, enslaver of thousands, child rapist and inventor of a religion/cult used as a recruiting tool.
Also kudos to him for creating a religion which by design is extremely difficult to reform or modernise effectively guaranteeing that the middle east will remain in a 1000-year-old mindset and never develop or modernise.
>>1030258
Pedophilia and rape are bad, even in an Islamic context. The issue is that people are suddenly treating the Hadith canon as historical sources when they've never been treated as such.
The classical Muslim took away from the hadith about Aisha that, assuming she was 18 when Muhammad died, she poetically spent half her life with Muhammad and half her life without up to that point, and that she was (the only) virgin wife of Muhammad, and that Greek understanding of climactic biology suppressed the age of puberty in the Hijaz at the time to make such marriages possible (the Shia for example have Fatima being married at age 9 as well with this exact reasoning).
The modern historian who studies early Islam takes away from the hadith a snippet of the storytelling that flooded the 9th century and made its way into the canon, that Aisha's age and purity had political and theological significance, and that it was probably a concoction to either justify some political goal or to synergize and not contradict the haphazard chronology being made up at the time.
The idiotic modern Muslim or anti-Muslim bigot, however, starts debates on shitposting about warlordism and pedophilia.
>>1030318
Because most posters are barely /his/torians and are only here for history memes, and years of infographics and shitty non-academic books on Islam have fucked them up to the point where it's become like a religion to them.
>>1026203
t. Muhammad (peace be upon him)
>>1030318
He does have a huge legacy, but OP asked our opinion on Muhammad, not whether he was successful.
Being the successful founder of a civilization and a major religion with billions of followers doesn't change the fact he was a piece of shit, by today's western standards and contemporary Roman Christian standards (to a lesser extent of course).
>>1030318
people don't dislike him as a historical figure viewed in the same way as Alexander the great, but Muhammad isn't viewed by most of the world as a historical figure.
Most of the discussion about Muhammad is about him as a prophet and religious leader and "a beautiful example of mankind", so it is perfectly correct and reasonable to criticise him under these terms.
His example is absolutely appalling and his inferiority as an example of benevolence in comparison to Jesus of Nazareth cannot be overstated.
muhammad never existed. he's a fairy tale like jesus
>>1030344
I will be so disappointed in /his/ if you guys take the bait
>>1030350
Fugg off. I don't like the Muslim haters either, but you give us a bad name
>>1030150
Radical islam is to hip-hop as alienated young muslims are to alienated young westerners.
>>1030350
do you not have a response to
>people don't dislike him as a historical figure viewed in the same way as Alexander the great, but Muhammad isn't viewed by most of the world as a historical figure.
>Most of the discussion about Muhammad is about him as a prophet and religious leader and "a beautiful example of mankind", so it is perfectly correct and reasonable to criticise him under these terms.
?
How intellectually crippled of you.
>>1030354
I'm not a fucking Muslim you cunt. I am an atheist from a protestant background.
I just fucking hate Christians, they ruin /his/ with their bullshit posts.
>>1030161
Culture doesn't improve with time itself, it doesn't make much sense to say the pre-islamic arabs should be more culturally developed than romans
>>1030350
I'm not a Christian, and if you can't take a religious and historical figure being criticized in a thread asking about people's opinion on said person, you should be the one to leave.
>>1030161
>So if he did indeed (which is not sure), fuck a 9 year old girl, it would have been seen as disgusting by Roman morals of the time
Yet no Byzantine criticism exists of Muhammad and Aisha.
>>1030350
Bah I'm an atheist.
Give me a hundred Jesus's and their religions before you give me a single Muhammad and his religion. Even at its lowest points Christianity never stooped as low as has Islam.
Islam has done nothing but repress rights, restrict freedom, antagonize the West and try to kill us since its founding.
Oh sure, there were good Muslims. tons of them, but the average Muslim is and always has been a violent brute who thinks a woman is just one step above property and infidels should die.
Until that changes, until the average Muslim is anything but a threat to modern society, I won't like Islam.
>>1030150
that depends a lot on the location of the second generation.
It is much much more true in America and Canada where you only let in a small number of muslims and those you do let in are among the most educated and successful than it is in say the UK or Belgium where much larger numbers in comparison to the population size are let in and they're on average very uneducated and they all live in the same ghettos surrounded by other uneducated muslims.
In the UK and Belgim the second generation of muslim immigrants are often MORE serious about practicing Islam than their parents.
>>1030358
Consider the possibility that God does not care about modern age of consent laws. Once upon a time Christians had to believe that killing heretics wasn't frowned upon, what makes you think Muhammad should be held to a different standard.
I'm not Muslim but man watching Christians engage with Islam is absolutely hilarious.
>>1030290
>The Quran is infallible!
>Because the Quran is the word of God!
>I know this because the Quran says so!
>And the Quran is always right because it is infallible!
>>1030362
Of course not, but it would make sense for a religious figure getting word from God to get the hint on what is a good idea or not. In any case Aisha's age is probably made up so it's a non debate.
>>1030373
There are Christians who make the same argument about the Bible on here literally every day. And the Qur'an for all its flaws is far less sketchy than the Bible is.
>>1030373
?
Apparently some hot dicking broke this anon instead.
>>1030368
Probably because her age was made up in the hadith.
>>1030360
Oh okay so you're a self hating reactionary who can't stand the fact that people have positive things to say about a religion you so vehemently hate because your parents made you go to church when you were 14.
There's only one thing to say in a thread like this ...
TAKBIR!
>>1030381
>In any case Aisha's age is probably made up so it's a non debate
Prepare to be ignored by the religious and politically motivated shitposters who were never interested in history to begin with.
>>1030368
probably because no one bothered writing a scroll in lasting parchment in a good storage space justto criticise one particular aspect of a religion followed by people already designated as pagan barbarians.
your objection is as silly as there not being records of critiques of some part of the mythology of Jumis and Laima
>>1030392
Except this is Muhammad we're talking about, biographies of whom had been translated and circulated in the West for specifically polemical reasons since John of Damascus.
I mean, sure, my objection sounds silly to someone who doesn't have a clue about the history of Western engagement with Islamic historiography and theology, but why would such an idiot post on a /his/ thread about Muhammad?
Voltaire wrote an entire play about Aisha and Muhammad, and even then.
>>1030372
The actions of followers of a religion =/= the actions and teachings of the central figure of that religion.
It is very telling that when it comes to comparing Jesus and Muhammad you had to instead dishonestly try to compare the actions of Christians and muhamad.
nice try but your fallacy has been exposed. you lose.
>>1030391
Personally I want her to be around 9 to 11 because that makes her a 3D loli like in my Japanese anime.
>>1030403
if there exists byzantine critiques of other parts of sahih Bukhari but not the parts referring to Aisha being 9 years old when the marriage was consummated then you would have a good point.
Are there byzantine critiques of sahih bukhari?
>>1030424
John of Damascus predates Bukhari, but he is instead contemporary to Ibn Ishaq and shows a knowledge of Muhammad's life. It'd be this and other books like Ibn Hisham's sirah that would find its way into Byzantine hands one way or another if ever.
An interesting point of note however is that there doesn't seem to be any criticism of Muslim marriage practices (beyond the obvious sanctification issues).
>>1030441
how detailed a knowledge of Muhammad's life?
One can know a lot about Muhammad without knowing that the age of Aisha when her marriage to Muhammad was consummated.
Sahih bukhari is the most authoritative collection of hadiths which contains this information.
So if john of Damascus predates this collection of hadiths then what is your reason for believing that john of Damascus would happen to know the age at which Aisha was when her marriage was consummated?
>>1030467
There's no way to know what exactly John knew and didn't bother to criticize, it's only clear that he was in communication with Muslims about all sorts of extra-Quranic information. Over time, however, Byzantine polemics seem to become aware of Khadija, and even Aisha, and specifically for Khadija they were aware she was more than a decade older than Muhammad.
>>1030467 here
hisham apparently wrote that "she may have been 10 years old at consummation"
So the question becomes whether there are byzantine critiques of other parts of ibn hisham's sirah but no reference to him consummating the marriage to a 10 year old
>le pedophile meme
Adult men marrying little girls was not something shocking in the pre-modern or even early modern era.
Pic related.
The modern 3rd wave feminist movement also had a lot to do with the whole age of consent thing.
It's retarded to apply modern-day post-Enlightenment morality to 7th century people.
>b-but he's supposed to be "the perfect example to all mankind"
so every Muslim is supposed to start a religion, organize a city-state, lead a volunteer levy army, compose a religious holy text, receive visions from God, and found an Empire a religion that would last 1400 years?
or was the whole "perfect example to all mankind" thing not meant to be taken literally and just more of an Arabic poetic way of saying "Mohammed is a pretty cool guy"
>>1030405
Consider the possibility that God does not care about modern age of consent laws, or that people who oppose his messengers should be treated humanely. Muhammad could behave invented AIDS, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Islam is true
The God of Moses and the Hebrews sounds like a crazed violent sociopath.
The God of Jesus sounds like the greatest cuck in the history of cuckery.
What does the God of Mohammed sound like?
>>1030521
A crazed violent sociopath that contradicts himself.
Muhammad had much more influence from Jewish teachings than Christian teachings. He did kind of just plagiarize the Torah and replace "Hebrew" with "Muslim" and didn't have the whole "Old Testament null and void" thing the Christians did, so anything God said to Moses is still law today.
>>1030521
>What does the God of Mohammed sound like?
Like someone playing Sim City just fucking with his Sims
>>1030509
>so every Muslim is supposed to start a religion, organize a city-state, lead a volunteer levy army, compose a religious holy text, receive visions from God, and found an Empire a religion that would last 1400 years?
No, because Muhammad explicitly told his followers not to invent new religions and to follow his Islamic teachings.
But otherwise yes it is genuinely the case that muslims have a long tradition of holding muhamad as the ideal human being and a beautiful example to mankind and much of Islamic moral and legal discussion is about whether or not Muhammad is recorded to have done things or told people to do things.
So yes it is perfectly reasonable to point out that he is an appalling example to mankind of how to behave.
And it is also valid and reasonable to point out that the teachings and example of Jesus are far more benevolent than that of Muhammad.
>>1030537
>the teachings and example of Jesus are far more benevolent than that of Muhammad
by what standard?
secular standards?
Western standards?
Christian standards?
Consider that the standards of God and the standards of men are not the same, that God may not care at all about your standards.
>>1030548
>by what standard
Well let's see what Jesus said versus what Mohammad said
>only use violence to defend yourself from violence
>spread through peace and love
>if your neighbor has no cloak, give him yours, if he has no food, give him yours
>if you are struck turn the other cheek
Muhammad
>spread peacefully
>unless they won't convert then it's ok to kill them
>feed the poor
>I mean you don't have to just smile at them that makes their day better too
>only defensive warfare
>if you think they're a threat it's ok to go attack them as long as you try to convert them too
Islam was based on Jewish teachings, and the God of Abraham is kind of a dick.
Christianity whitewashed God harder than Europe whitewashed Jesus. Literally.
>>1030569
>if you are struck turn the other cheek
holy shit what a cuck
>>1025664
He was a pedophile warlord who created the biggest blight on civilization since the Sea People of the Bronze Age
>>1030248
she was probably trying to escape
>>1030258
>anyone who doesn't share my degenerate fetish is from tumblr
that is not how you use that meme
>>1030290
She would have likely remained part of the nobility because it is better than being a peasant. Just because a slave eats the scraps off master's table doesn't mean he approves of slavery.
>>1030334
If you required those standards of proof you'd have to dismiss most of the koran also.
>>1030288
>most stable, durable and efficient systems
hmm
If Islam was purely about hearts and minds they would not kill each other over trivial differences in doctrine. Like all institutional religions, Islam appeals to hearts and minds because it has some good memes and people are indoctrinated from infancy into it, beyond this it is heavily manipulated by temporal authorities and used for political purposes and excuses to go to war. "SNACKBAR" is little different from "GOD WILLS IT" or "muh mandate of heaven".
It is exceptional only in its ability to serve the brutal autocracies of the middle ages. If you want to salvage the few good memes, be my guest, but you would have to separate it from Muhammad.
>>1030300
postmodernists are an insular clique just like religious fanatics
>>1030311
Arguably some other religion could be used or conjurred up out of thin air and interpreted however authorities see fit. If Islam had an advantage over others it was only marginal.
>>1030572
Jesus was the original liberal SJW cuck, friend.
Islam was basically an attempt to uncuck Abrahamic monotheism after Jesus.
>>1030548
kindness has quite an obvious, universal meaning.
Let's compare the kindness of two teachings
Quran 9:123 :
O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.
The parable of the good Samaritan:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37
which is more kind?
The one encouraging kindness to different creeds or the one encouraging violence and harshness towards them?
>>1027365
The difference is Mo is supposedly a beacon of moral virtue and the greteast man of all time
But he fucks children.
>>1027365
> You should follow Muhammad
> People are unironically give status of moral authority to someone who lived over 2000 years ago
It works both ways anon
>>1030569
Muhammed said that you should kill infidels?
I find that hard to believe considering that the Caliphate only became majority Muslim 400 years after his death.
Source would be appreciated
illiterate warlord who got contacted by a demon spirit to write a satanic book to counter the Bible
>>1030646
Quran(9:5)
>>1030646
he said to kill those who "leave the religion (i.e. Islam)" in one Hadith, written about 200 years after his death.
the Quran also prescribes war and fighting in cases of self-defense, oppression, and 'fitna' (a word that can be interpreted as persecution, tribulation, etc)
>>1030655
Read 9:4 and 9:6.
>>1030646
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
>>1030670
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.
>>1030655
>Quran(9:5)
That was literally a case of self-defense if you bothered to read the rest of the chapter you faggot.
"Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun the attack upon you first? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers."
Quran [9:13]
>>1030689
If it was a case of self defense there would be no need to "[wait for] the sacred months [to] pass away" as earlier versus made it perfectly clear war in case of self defense did not require the sacred months to be upheld.
>>1030678
Ah such beautiful poetry!
>>1030597
>le cherrypicking Christian
That verse refers to the Banu Qurayza, who allied with the pagan Arabs of Medina and committed treason. You should read a couple of verses before and after to get a better picture.
>>1027253
>>1026113
If Muhammad was Satan then who was god? The god of Christianity? If that were the case, Muhammad would've simply slaughtered occasionally d all the Christians and Jews, instead of tolerating them.
Muslims have the brainwashing on lock, even confronted with their own holy books stupidity they just scramble and yell nuh uh .
Now then, where is my trusty donkey lightning, i need to fly to Jerusalem
>>1030629
> are given status of moral authority, respect, and wisdom today
My argument still here. It is retarded choice. In the end morality evolved too far away from them.
>>1030729
I have done so and it says nothing about only attacking disbelievers who have attacked you first.
Quran 6:114
"Shall I seek for a judge other than Allah when He it is Who has sent down to you the book fully explained?"
Quran 11:1
"This is a book whose verses have been made firm and free from imperfection and then have been expounded in detail"
Quran24:46
"Certainly we have revealed clear communications , and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right way"
"A book, whereof the verses are explained in detail"
And there are several other verses explicitly saying that the quran is clear in its meaning and fully explained.
So when the Quran says "attack disbelievers" rather than "attack only those disbelievers who have attacked you first" it means it.
see also:
Quran 8:12
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
The "context" for this verse is that the muslims spot a non-muslim caravan and so they decide to raid it like bandits and Allah tells the muslims to kill non-muslims.
>it was a long time ago so it was okay to rape children
like even if you are a fedora tipping atheist at least jesus wasnt a pedophile
>>1030829
This! Real question here who is most moral by our own standards. Should be either Buddha or Jesus. I believe Buddha is superior because he refused all of his cash and rich life. Hard act to do for a prince.
>>1030829
some turk used that same logic to justify the armenian genocide on /his/ a couple of weeks ago
Everyone always forgets his first wife was literally twice his age, anyone would be dying for fresh pussy after that.
>>1030880
> anyone is a pedophile
I hardly agree with that assumption of yours.
>>1030582
>If you required those standards of proof you'd have to dismiss most of the koran also.
Don't be retarded. No you wouldn't, as the Koran has a far older historicity.
>>1030678
>Read 9:4 and 9:6
>>1030810
>I have done so
You haven't at all.
So we've established that most of /his/ haven't ever picked up a book by Watt, Schacht or Crone and have meme'd their way into an education on Islamic scripture and history, with predictable results.
>>1030907
To be fair, it's the predictable result of a thread like this that started asking for >opinions and not a specific question, leaving it open for idiots to come in, drool their well-practiced copy-pasta you could literally condense into a one or two page pamphlet, accomplish nothing, then fuck off.
>>1030902
wow great rebuttal.
If you were speaking from a position of truth you'd be able to back up your claims with a quote showing where it said "attack only those disbelievers who have attacked you first" or words to that effect in the chapter.
But as expected you haven't done because the Koran doesn't say that.
You're just a liar resorting to taqqiya
>>1030582
She was the daughter of the most powerful Arab warlord there Abu Bakr. She wouldn't be poor after Muhammad died. Also assuming you're assuming she tried to escape her marriage without any evidence for it.
>>1030927
>wow great rebuttal.
Thanks, which is why your big 'if' is just that.
>B-better say it's taqqiya, that'll show 'em!
The entire chapter is literally about fighting those who the Muslims have fought before and did not have a treaty of peace with. But I'm sure you didn't start reading from the most offensive verse you could find per chapter like some mouth-breathing net crusader, right?
Oh
>>1030958
>Expecting historical knowledge at this point
These folk are running on the fumes of their emotions and beliefs at this point. They're just another kind of religious fanatic, no different than any other.
>>1025664
Prophet of God and his slave
>>1030967
>the entire chapter is
That's a nice claim. It should be easy for you to provide some proof then by quoting where in the chapter it says "attack only those disbelievers who have attacked you first" or words to that effect, as without such a verse then according to quran 6:114, quran 11:1 , quran 24:46 (>>1030810 ) and other verses, the verse 9:123 means exactly what it says.
Oh
>>1026038
t. Every single prophet in history
>>1030334
>The classical Muslim took away from the hadith about Aisha that, assuming she was 18 when Muhammad died, she poetically spent half her life with Muhammad and half her life without up to that point, and that she was (the only) virgin wife of Muhammad, and that Greek understanding of climactic biology suppressed the age of puberty in the Hijaz at the time to make such marriages possible (the Shia for example have Fatima being married at age 9 as well with this exact reasoning).
So...how many current followers of the Islam believe this?
>she poetically spent half her life with Muhammad and half her life without up to that point
why would that matter anyways...
>she was (the only) virgin wife of Muhammad
He didn't consume the marriage?
> Greek understanding of climactic biology suppressed the age of puberty in the Hijaz at the time to make such marriages
explain?
>music is haram
>art is haram
>bacon is haram
>islam means submission
>muslims are proud of being slaves
>women have to wear trashbags at all time
>women cant drive cars
>women cant leave the house without a male relative
>the founder of the religion fucked a 9 year old
>>1025664
"the Prophet [] had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died "
ISIS are his truest followers
http://www.quranexplorer.com/hadith/english/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.261.html
>>1031005
>music is haram
not muhammad
>art is haram
not muhammad
>bacon is haram
>islam means submission
>muslims are proud of being slaves
>women have to wear trashbags at all time
not muhammad
>women cant drive cars
not muhammad
>women cant leave the house without a male relative
not muhammad
>the founder of the religion fucked a 9 year old
definitely muhammad. Still, he waited until she had her period, which was the mark of adulthood. quite unlucky that she got it at 9
>>1025701
Listen to this and tell me if you hear a difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIe5kSSavKA
>>1031004
>So...how many current followers of the Islam believe this?
Who knows. Maybe a lot, maybe none any more. I'm a /his/fag, go ask some MENA shitposters on /int/ instead.
>why would that matter anyways...
Religious and mystical insights, not highly relevant to chronology but it was there and should be noted.
>He didn't consume the marriage?
The word is consummate, and by virgin wife I meant she was the only one who was a virgin at the time of her marriage - or at least some partisans went through great lengths to make her appear as one for whatever reason.
>explain?
It was a common belief that carried through into Victorian times.
http://www.ncgsjournal.com/issue42/peterson.htm
>>1031014
>Aisha's age at marriage isn't some random rumor, it was official doctrine for centuries
No it wasn't. An anecdote in the hadith doesn't equate to full blown religious doctrine. Name me a single historical religious scholar - just one - that ever referenced Aisha's age at marriage in a matter of doctrine or even religious law, hell, even marriage law.
oh i also forgot
>cant drink alcohol
>have to pray FIVE FUCKING TIMES A DAY
christ, islam is literally no fun allowed the religion
>>1030990
The first 10 verses of chapter 9 begin talking about said disbelievers, ending with:
>They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
Then 9:12-13
>They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
>Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.
>>1031016
It's funny when Muslims try to explain how ISIS aren't real Muslims, despite them literally following the Quran.
>>1031080
Not muslim and dont care much for it but those quotes are horribly translated and totally out of context. the quran is tame and generally promotes defensive warfare, its the hadith where all the bullshit comes from
>>1031088
>totally out of context
>Middle east is utterly lost to Islam
>Europe is in the process of being lost to Islam
>Russia is 15% Islamic
>India is well ahead of Europe and can be labelled an Islamic state within a state.
>Islam is fastest growing religion in America.
China vs Islam, who will win?
>>1031080
ISIS and the idiots who make these kinds of dis-infographics are cut from the same cloth, modern idiots who purposefully read whatever they want into centuries old doctrines that did not say anything of the sort, and then claim to be reading the true interpretation of Islamic scripture.
You'll notice, of course, that whenever these things claims ISIS is quoting scripture in these actions, they don't actually source ISIS quoting said scripture to justify said action. If they did they would know ISIS has a far different method of justification than direct Quranic quoting.
ISIS does a thing, justifies it as reliving and reconstructing, in their minds, the early Rashidun Caliphate, and anti-Muslim bigots sell to other gullible idiots their personal interpretation of what ISIS is doing and justifying themselves. Both are promoting their own brands of bullshit to sell their packaged ideology.
>>1031039
But all that is irrelevant...
Poetically being half her life with her pedophilic husband
Being a virgin at her wedding
To exclaim that that's a better observation than the fact that the prophet was fucking a child, is somewhat outrageous
>It was a common belief that carried through into Victorian times.
which is? All you did was give me a nice link to early puberty freaks which doesn't quite explain how Classical Muslims understood from this passage that "Greek understanding of clicmatic biology (it being?) supressed the age of puberty (what does "early puberty freaks" have to do with "supressed age of puberty") in the Hijaz..."
>>1031104
>If we put legitimate criticism in a bingo card and hide it among actual bullshit, we can ignore it all as bullshit!
Also, behead those who save images with awful JPEG compression.
>>1031080
Do we need context?
>>1031116
You know china has like millions of muslims and regularly slaps their shit with a firm han hand when they get too uppity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs
>>1031088
see 1031158
I guess I got some more context.
>>1031138
>criticizing what your own book says
>>1031126
>But all that is irrelevant...
It had its purpose, which is why someone bothered to tell it and write it down 200 years later.
>To exclaim that that's a better observation than the fact that the prophet was fucking a child, is somewhat outrageous
What are you talking about?
>which is?
The Arabs wholly adopted Greek geography and climatology, and part of it was the belief of high temperatures and its various effects on human biology and culture.
>>1031069
verse 9:11 states
>But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion: and We detail the verses for a people who know.
i.e. until they become muslims you should attack and make war against them
still nothing directly contradicting:
>Quran 9:123 :
>O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who are the Al-Muttaqun (the pious)
And a straight forward, clear interpretation according to
Quran 6:114
"Shall I seek for a judge other than Allah when He it is Who has sent down to you the book fully explained?"
Quran 11:1
"This is a book whose verses have been made firm and free from imperfection and then have been expounded in detail"
Quran24:46
"Certainly we have revealed clear communications , and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right way"
"A book, whereof the verses are explained in detail"
The Koran is the clear, and fully explained word of God, so if the Koran meant that only non-believers who attack you should be attacked in return it would have said that , but instead it says directly "kill nonbelievers near to you
>>1031158
>>1031163
Nice taqiya Ahmed, you're not fooling anyone into your death cult
>>1031169
>Everyone who disagrees with me must be an evil Muslim!
Criticizing the Koran is my focus. Don't touch me with your shitty infographics, pleb.
What kind of idiot reads 'context' as 'need to spam more out of context quotes.'
>>1031125
how to defend atrocities:
muddle the line between atrocities and their critics, evne if one is about brutal ritual murders and the other about posting pics online
"the nazi ideology is totally fine, you peopel criticizing hitler totalyl take his texts out of context"
Fuck off. The text is not a Rorshach test, its explicitely violent and shitty. Read some of hitlers speeches, they sound exactly like the quran.
"We are beset by enemies, and we have to defend ourselves, because we are noble and our enemies are vile savages and inhuman. Defend your tribesmen! Subjugate or kill the insideous jews and subhuman unbelievers!".
Its dripping triabalism and barbarism on every page.
If ISIS published a book, it would be exactly like the quran.
>>1031185
>but instead it says directly "kill nonbelievers near to you
During specific circumstances
Do you open other books, read random sentences and then claim to understand it?
>>1031192
>i-i'm not a muslim! honest!
>here, let me show you this islamic propaganda to prove it
>>1031185
>i.e. until they become muslims you should attack and make war against them
That's what disbelievers means, yes - hypocrites who claimed to be Muslim but were not.
>still nothing
Sure, unless you just ignore the entire chapter leading up to it.
The rest of your quotes are the same exact way, the same exact forced ignorance and memes in place of critical thinking that got you here, shitposting, in the first place.
>>1031187
Have you read this book?
If you have then this is just pathetically hilarious.
>>1031203
You know as soon as you start blabbing on about Taqiyya you just expose yourself as a huge fool right? It simply isnt what you think it is.
>>1031196
>If ISIS published a book, it would be exactly like the quran.
ISIS did publish a book. Several. They've been studied extensively you know. Or, you would know, if you bothered to read academic journals and research publications and didn't end your entire education on ISIS or Islam on kook websites selling firewater.
>>1031211
Yea I've read it a few times along with other religious texts. It's a book which covers warfare in depth, this makes it very easy to cherry pick it and make it look like it promotes one thing or another.
The reality of it, which you get if you actually read the whole thing, is that it says to not bother people but if they bother you then they're fair game to fuck up.
If you think it's hilarious to have read a religion book then you are pathetic, considering you're the one on here acting like some authority on a religion while professing to have no even read its holy text.
>>1031213
Please, convince the 57 islamic states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, that approved this interpretation as legitimate, and publishes books on this that are accepted as legit by basicly all muslims and you'll have a point.
Just repeating your mantra of "out of context, its totally not that hahah" is not helping your case.
>>1031235
>It also talks about taxation, does it not?
Tribute, specifically tribute from tribes that did not leave them alone.
>>1025664
Founded Islam, which led to the enlightenment of the middle east, which paved the foundation for the renaissance in Europe. Islam not only did a great service to the middle east, south Asia and southern Europe, but it influenced beautiful architecture and cultures to create a powerful dynamic, something the west could never achieve in its entire history. Muslims, Christians and Jews (for the most part) lived alongside each other and considered each other brethren, unlike Europeans who can never seem to live alongside peacefully with any group except for non-whites (even then they were always warring with each other). This war-like barbaric undertone instilled into the minds of Europeans is what causes the outlook onto Muslims to be as they are, nothing but savages.
>>1031242
>The OIC approves my interpretation!
Right
>>1031248
>Founded Islam, which led to the enlightenment
stopped reading there
>>1031027
Did women back then really start puberty earlier? I feel like that's just a justification muslims have thought to themselves.
>>1031225
The perfect word of god is in large parts about warfare and justifications for warfare, with savage examples of barbarism and when its appropriate.
Which is exactly as bad as it sounds, and produces the expected results from strict adherents.
Some clearheaded muslims actually understand this.
>>1031246
For islam simply existing and not being a muslim is "not leaving them alone".
>A non-muslim woman who has been living here longer than me just walked by not dressed as a muslim! Eating a pork sandwich! She's provoking me!
>>1031246
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Yea, alright. Nice fucking shitposting.
>>1031260
Signs of puberty can start as early as 7 or 8, which is probably the metric being used since puberty wasn't that well understood biologically back in the day.
>>1031248
Is this bait? Do you really think South and Central Asians welcomed the Muslims with open arms? Or the Byzantines? Or the Spanish?
>>1031257
Press your palms against your ears, shut your eyes and continue to think of the white European race to create everything wonderful and good that is in this world. After all, the camel fucking goat sucking middle easterners have never been good for anything, right?
>>1025823
Kek
>>1031268
Islam spread rapidly throughout subcontinental Asia, one of the ways was through qawaalis and poetry, and was also seen as a way for Hindus to break out of their rigid caste system, which is why the new ideology was quick to become popular in India. As for central Asia, I'm not too educated about that. As far as I know, the Sassanids and Byzantines were at their lowest points when Umar conquered them.
>>1031266
Literally talks about the people being fought in the first 20 verses leading up to that one.
So yeah, nice fucking shitposting.
>>1031282
So popular that they got kicked out of India because everyone hated them and they still have to slaughter non-muslim women and children in Pakistan because just existing as a non-muslim counts as "not leaving the poor muslims alone we dindu nuffin"
>>1031282
Are you stupid?
Islam was shit in India, it failed to get rid of the caste system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_Muslims
In fact, the Mughals taxed convert Muslims at a higher tax rate in some parts of India during their rule.
Religion of brotherhood my ass.
Why are muslims only capable of raping, killing and whining?
If they're not murdering innocents or raping non-muslim women, they're whining how oppressed they are because western women don't give a fuck about islam and won't give out free sex to muslims.
>>1031287
Dude just go back and read what you wrote about Jizya. Utterly dishonest if I have seen it.
>>1031270
white people created everything of importance, the cellphone, the car, the aeroplane, we even landed on the moon.
Muslims are too busy blowing themselves up and beating their women to function as human beings.
Also
>Islam
>race
God damn you faggots are stupid
>>1031256
The OIC also officially redefined "human rights" to "sharia law".
From the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights:
Article 24 of the declaration states: "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia."
Article 19 also says: "There shall be no crime or punishment except as provided for in the Sharia."[11]
Thats Taqqiya in practice. Making you think they mean human rights, when they clearly don't. And they know you'll misunderstand them.
Individual muslims might be fine, but so were individual germans in 1938.
If your defense of islam can be used to defend anything "its just out of context.. " you know what you're defending.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-atheist-muslims-perspective-on-the-root-causes-of-islamist-jihadism-and-the-politics-of-islamophobia_b_3159286.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
Stop lying about it. Start siding with reformers and liberal muslims over this. Christians agree the OT is garbage, so should muslims on the Quran.
>>1031235
>It also talks about taxation, does it not? Then how can you say that Islam leaves others alone?
In regards to warfare.
>>1031242
What? No official islamic organisation approves terrorism and shit
>>1031260
My ex got her period at 9 too
>>1031264
Its the word of a man and its pretty clear and concise as far as religious texts go, its just under extreme scrutiny in this political climate. But you cant expect the law for mankind by a religion to not include warfare can you?
>>1031309
>they're whining how oppressed they are because western women don't give a fuck about islam and won't give out free sex to muslims.
wait what?
>>1031314
as much as I have a disdain for Islam and think it is one giant spook, this is simply not true
>>1031312
Jizya was not a term yet at the time of the writing of the Quran. You're retroactively applying later invention onto older historical practices. You can't go through life thinking everything that challenges your poor education is dishonest.
>>1031316
>In regards to warfare.
This level of dishonesty, nothing less from a true believer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya#History
>>1031315
>Let me make the most roundabout example I could possible make and present a conspiracy theory to explain what's happening
>So stop lying!
It's getting pathetic.
>>1031301
If you're going to regurgitate the narrative that the entire course of Islamic history up until now was just a barbaric shitstain on the canvas we call history, and tell me about the history of my own people, then go ahead and continue to scream superiority to your self proclaimed superior Judeo-Christian history (hilarious seeing as both of those religions originated in the middle east too from a poor brown - oh well).
>So popular that they got kicked out of India
Which is why it's the second largest religion in the country, and Muslims lived peacefully alongside Hindus and Sikhs until the British Raj which incorporated religion radically into politics, ironic. (Yes, I do acknowledge the reign of Aurangzeb did indeed incorporate a stricter version of Islam, but 200 years of British rule colossally fucked up the region even more)
>>1031306
>"Contrary to Qur'anic worldview and Islamic teaching in general, some Muslim communities around the world still apply a system of social stratification that has similarity to the caste systems."
>>1031309
>they're whining how oppressed they are because western women don't give a fuck about islam and won't give out free sex to muslims.
Last time I checked it was guys who masturbated to Hentai and complained on an anonymous political forum about how much western women have been "cucked" because they choose alternative partners to insecure morbidly obese manlets.
>>1031331
>Abbasid-era authors who systematized earlier historical writings, where the term "jizya" was used with different meanings, interpreted it according to the usage common in their own time;
>the system established by the Arab conquest was not uniform, but rather resulted from a variety of agreements or decisions;
>the earlier systems of taxation on which it was based are still imperfectly understood.[136]
Lel
why do muslims keep demanding my jizz?
