Was he right about Germans?
>jew is anti-white
what a surprise
Heaven brings forth innumerable things to nurture man.
Man has nothing good with which to recompense Heaven.
Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.
>>1018854
First anti-whites were Germans though.
And this is why the soviets are disliked.
>>1018854
>other people starts brutal war against you for the second time in 30 years
>why do you hate them???? Are you antiwhite?
>>1018871
>Soviets
>Same as Tsarist Russia
>>1018871
>implying Germans started either World Wars
>>1018886
Still same people annon
>After criticism by Georgy Aleksandrov in Pravda in April 1945,[5] Ehrenburg responded that he never meant wiping out the German people, but only German aggressors who came to our soil with weapons, because "we are not Nazis" who fight with civilians.[6] He wrote already in May 1942 : "The German soldier with weapon in hand is not a man for us, but a fascist. We hate him [...] When the German soldier gives up his weapon and surrenders, we will not touch him with a finger – he will live."[7] Ehrenburg fell into disgrace at that time and it is estimated that Aleksandrov's article was a signal of change in Stalin's policy towards Germany.[8][9]
Second, he wasn't ''Soviet propaganda minister'', he was just a journalist and Old Bolshevik.
>>1018893
You're right. It was Pooland.
>>1018924
Invasion is not a declaration of war
Britain and France declaring war on Germany is what started the war
>>1018919
>"we are not Nazis" who fight with civilians
Coming from a Commie, this is a laugh. Civilians may not be military targets, but are you seriously telling me civilians can't be class enemies? This is doublethink.
>>1018936
Yes, poor Germany. How could they.
I guess breaking every point of Treaty of Versailles and annexing Austria + Czech wasn't enough.
>>1018936
So if the allies would have invaded Germany without any declaration of war and germany declares war at them, would germany thenhave started the war?
>>1018944
The Treaty of Versailles was very unjust to the Germans
>>1018950
Why?
>>1018950
>The Treaty of Versailles was very unjust to the Germans
nice meme
>>1018950
Maybe, but it wasn't worse than what the Germans tried to enforce on others.
is this guy forgetting about the russian soldiers who liberated territories and then proceeded to rape everyone in them?
>>1018963
start shit get hit
>>1018963
I think the raping mainly occursed about German women.
>>1018951
Ridiculous reparations
>>1018963
Soviet rape and looting is vastly exaggerated.
Yes it happened and even Russians and others acknowledge it, but it wasn't anything systematic and it didn't last that long.
Also, some looting can hardly compare to starvation and murder of 20 million civilians in USSR.
Sorry, while Stalin was in many ways similar to Hitler, it's actions that matter, and again while there was some similarity Soviets never indulged in brutality and murder on such scale.
>>1018953
Austrians are already Germans so the Anschluss was actually quite practical
>>1018970
>The Treaty of Versailles and the 1921 London Schedule of Payments required Germany to pay 132 billion gold marks (US$33 billion) in reparations to cover civilian damage caused during the war. This figure was divided into three categories of bonds: A, B, and C. Of these, Germany was only required to pay towards 'A' and 'B' bonds totaling 50 billion marks (US$12.5 billion). The remaining 'C' bonds, which Germany did not have to pay, were designed to deceive the Anglo-French public into believing Germany was being heavily fined and punished for the war.
Oh, and as a bonus, for ''Germans didn't start the war'', read:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis#German_attitude_to_war
And before you start with ''b-but J-Jewpedia'', these articles are well sourced and well written. ''Wikipedia'' is not a fucking argument.
Can we now drop this pointless and boring discussion?
>>1018983
No, no. The Soviets just did it to their own people. Much more just and humane than Uncle Adolf.
>>1018987
What does that have to do with anything?
>>1018997
That still is a heavy fine and punishment
>>1018998
...and Stalinist purges and murders are vastly exaggerated.
Including famine in 30's, number is 10 million at most.
In general, while that was a terrible and oppressive regime, life quality for overwhelming majority improved immensely.
Stalin's regime actually did far far more than what Hitler did.
Stalin had at his disposal an impoverished, illiterate and chaotic nation, which had a very bloody and destructive civil war, and turned it into a nuclear power by the end of his rule.
I'll say it again, I'm not a Stalin or communism fan but Stalin was God compared to Hitler who was a megalomaniac retard who took a rich Germany (economic crisis=/=total destruction of nation's potential) and by the end of his 12 year long rule left it totally destroyed and occupied.
>>1019010
For starting a war that led to millions of deaths?
Brest-Litovsk was far more punishing.
Germans have literally no moral high-point here, I have no idea what are you arguing for.
>>1019014
I'm not the Naziboo but you Reds are just deillusional as old Hans over there. Luckily, we figured which one was the stupider of the two and armed him to win.
>>1019018
He's mostly true though.
>>1019017
Arguing for the Germans, obviously
>>1018837
That's for the rapes and mass murders that German troops commited on civilians.
>>1018997
>Oh, and as a bonus, for ''Germans didn't start the war'', read
>On 6 July, Bethmann-Hollweg and Zimmermann further repeated the promise of Wilhelm’s "blank cheque" at a conference with Szögyény.[54] Although Bethmann Hollweg stated that the decision for war or peace was in Austria's hands, he strongly advised that Austria choose the former.[54]
>leave the decision in the hands of Austria-Hungary
>starting the war
Pick one and only one.
>>1019024
Nah, more Soviet "we's gud boys we din Kronstadt nuffin". They are both retards, one is harmless when contained, the other isn't.
I'll grant him the Stalin economic growth but please remember to take the murder numbers with a grain of salt. The Soviets are the guys who made entire failed offensives disappear from history to suit their own propaganda needs. There is end a Red won't go to cover up his own crimes.
>>1019046
There is no end*
(Posting from mobile sorry)
>>1019018
I'm not a communist or Stalinboo, I'm just telling you what's historical reality and what's propaganda.
Westerners take any ''fact'' about USSR to be right without any scrutiny, ignoring that Soviets were ideological enemy for decades. Only during WW2 did this stop, but it resumed quickly.
That's why you have so much focus on Soviet rapes, murders and looting, but you never ever hear about 1 million rapes in Western-occupied parts, or millions (allegedly 10 million) rapes by Axis troops on Eastern Front.
For fucks sake, out of occupied territory population, 1/3 was starved or exterminated by Germans during WW2.
Did something similar happen to Soviet-occupied Europe? Not really, besides expulsion of Germans (but saying that was Soviet is ridiculous, Poles and Czechs willingly participated, and Yugoslavs did it on their own).
>>1019043
You didn't even read all of that. You just grabbed the part that suits you.
Why should I discuss with you? You aren't interested in discussing or learning, you just want to push your ''Germans and Hitler did nothing wrong'' idiocy.
Fuck off man.
>>1019051
>1/3 was starved or exterminated by Germans during WW2.
Bullshit.
>Did something similar happen to Soviet-occupied Europe?
Holodomor.
Jesus Christ, the SU was the single most nightmareish state in the existence of mankind. Hitler wasn't even elected and the Soviets had already killed more people than what would ever be attributed to Hitler's bodycount.
>>1019046
That was not my intention and I'm in no way saying that Soviet regime was good.
I don't like communism for many reasons.
But we're on a board for discussing history, not a board for political agitation.
>grain of salt
Dude, this is from archives. You are aware even Stalin needed some numbers to work with?
Stalin's executions were all documented, because they were all according to ''law''.
>>1019065
What has the Holodomor got to do with WW2?
It happened in the USSR prior to WW2 not in Soviet-occupied territory during WW2. This is just plain historical illiteracy.
>>1019051
It was more like 2 million rapes/murders but I never disputed the Germans did worse to the Soviets than they did back. What I do dispute is that the Soviets were somehow superior morally and that we should "trust" official Soviet numbers.
At least the Germans primarily murdered foreigners, the Soviets primarily murdered their own.
See the difference?
>>1019065
Boolsheet. I am not communist Stalin-loving comrade, but I know Ameddikan propagahnda when I see it. The West has done everything horrible ever and Stalin only relocated domestic terrorist to gulag and Holodomor was cause by Nazis. You are probably just anti-semite.
>>1019078
Jews homos and social democrats are foreigners?
>>1019065
>Bullshit.
You have numbers on Wikipedia anon. Most of Soviet loses were civilians (around 20 million), plus POW's (3 million killed).
In combat 1.4 Soviets died for 1 German.
When people talk about ''Soviet zerg'', they include dead civilians and POW's (most from first year of war).
>Holodomor
Failure of agricultural policies, and a criminal act no doubt, but not an intentional starvation and genocide.
In any case, calling it ''Holodomor'' is so fucking petty and clearly political.
Russians and others died too, not just fucking Ukrainians.
>Hitler wasn't even elected and the Soviets had already killed more people than what would ever be attributed to Hitler's bodycount.
I have no idea what to say to this bullshit except: no.
>most nightmareish state
Maybe during Stalin's time, but I'd argue for Cambodia during Khmer Rouge, or NK right now.
As I said I don't like communism but I don't like tendency here to whitewash German crimes while attributing 80 gazillion victims to Stalin without any question.
>>1019079
Gosh, you're right. My cover has been blown up.
>>1019084
I said primarily. Most of those jews, homos and gypsies came from outside Germany.
But hey, let's compare the death count from the Night of the Long Knives to Stalin's purges, we'll see who looks better.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/11/book-review-chronicles-of-wasted-time/
tl;dr There will forever and always be morons out there to say "Stalin wuz a gud boy he dindu nuffin"
>>1019078
>official Soviet numbers
These aren't official numbers. These numbers weren't public.
You should trust them because these were numbers used by leadership. They needed to know real numbers, do you know anything about how fucking state works?
>superior morally
Stalin was basically Hitler without pseudo-scientific racial ideas. I'd say he's slightly morally superior, but I accept that point.
However, Stalin didn't do what Nazis did. I'm talking about numbers and wars of aggression.
>primarily murdered foreigners
True but they also murdered shitload of Germans. Some 300,000 non-Jewish Germans I believe.
>>1019086
Stalin didn't kill anybody
>"I'm not a commie I swear"
I'm not buying it Ivan
>>1019086
>In any case, calling it ''Holodomor'' is so fucking petty and clearly political.
Why is it that every SU-booru is that fckn uneducated?
>The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Гoлoдoмóp, "Extermination by hunger" or "Hunger-extermination";[2] derived from мopити гoлoдoм, "to kill by starvation")
Soviet education man, not even once!
>>1019106
Except I never said that and you're intentionally resorting to ridicule and shitposting because you have no fucking arguments.
Stalin was a brutal dictator and killed a lot of people.
>>1019109
>uneducated
It is you who is uneducated. Holodomor is nationalist Ukrainian propaganda.
Starvation happened but it was result of collectivization and Russians and others died too, not just Ukrainians.
And I literally included that as Stalin's murder, but that wasn't intentional murder, more like criminally incompetent policy.
What's with all these illiterates here discussing history?
>>1019105
They released some really shady Soviet numbers during the end of the Cold War. Emphasis on "official". I'd very much like to see what the real numbers are but even modern Russia won't give us access to them.
Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. However, in terms of who they killed is what makes the difference. Stalin was the lesser of the two evils because he was content to canibalize his own people. He was not invading countries left right and center. If put a cordon sanitare around the SU, they generally didn't come out. Left wing political stirrings aside, I mean full on invasion tier. If you matched them with strength, they wouldn't be suicidal. Hitler and the Germans on the other hand had no such restraint. They were a more dangerous foe than the one who purges his military and top brass every so often.
Thus it is better to arm Stalin to beat Hitler than it is vise versa.
>>1019127
>real numbers
You are aware archives were open after USSR collapsed? Later they closed it but that was for different reasons. These are real and logical numbers, considering the growth of population for example.
>Stalin killed more people than Hitler did
Stalin killed 10 million people at most, and as I said I'm counting starvation in 30's as his victims.
Hitler ''killed'' (or caused the death of) 50 million people. Hitler started WW2.
>lesser of two evils
I think same.
>>1019057
>You aren't interested in discussing or learning, you just want to push your ''Germans and Hitler did nothing wrong'' idiocy.
I'm not even the anon you were originally arguing with. Fact of the matter is, the decision was left in the hand of Austria-Hungary while Germany outright stated full support for whatever Austria-Hungary chose. Since when are people at fault for others decisions? In the case of Hitler, it's pretty obvious that Hitler was at fault because he made the fucking decision.
>>1019121
>It is you who is uneducated. Holocaust is internationalist Jew propaganda.
Starvation happened but it was result of Allied bombing and whites and others died too, not just Jews.
And I literally included that as Hitler's murder, but that wasn't intentional murder, more like criminally incompetent policy.
What's with all these illiterates here discussing history?
>>1019136
>You are aware archives were open after USSR collapsed?
this is some next level uneducated bullshit again
archives are opening up but still not accessible for some parts, plus its not that easy to access them
>>1019106
Stalin only ever killed cowards, traitors and Germans.
>>1019138
>left in the hand of
Read further and see how Germans reacted when they got false information that Serbia accepted everything.
By the way, it was Germans who pushed for impossible ultimatum, to cause war.
Reason was time, if war started then Germans would still have advantage. If they let Russia rearm and reorganize by 1917, their defeat would be certain.
>>1019139
>Jews
That's how I know you're American.
I'm not even talking about Jews. No one outside of America cares that much about Holocaust.
Holocaust was one crime among many others. Far more Slavs died than Jews.
But just to kill your theory, ''Allied bombing'' is idiotic because:
1) Allies never bombed that much infrastructure in Poland
2) extermination camps were in Poland
3) somehow Germans managed to supply millions of troops and bring food FROM POLAND AND UKRAINE via that route, but couldn't feed Jews due to ''bombing''
It makes zero sense.
>>1019017
Don't forget for deliberately sabotaging France as they retreated. If you flood mines and booby trap homes until the last day of the war, you expect to get off on that for free?
>>1019157
Don't forget how the death rate among PoWs from places like France, the UK, and the U.S. was about 1/12th of what PoWs from "untermenschen" countries like the USSR, or KZ inmates.
Today on his: Slavic fairytales
>>1018936
>an act of war is not what started the war
whew
>>1018983
2 million german women were raped lad
>>1018947
Of course! That's why America is a peaceful nation that has never made war on another nation since WWII :^)
>>1019297
Who cares.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_camp_brothels_in_World_War_II
Germans did even worse.
>>1019310
Mr. Chomsky, I think it's time for a nap.
>>1019396
But I just woke up!
>>1019147
True. In order to discover how much Stalin had been stabbing the US in the back since 1930's with his massive infiltration of the US government, various historians have had to do some really innovative slight-of-hand stuff. Even then their work is ignored, as most of academia is made up of Leftists.
>>1019106
Tell that to the tens of thousands of American troops and 200,000 British troops that Stalin kidnapped during the war, sent to the Gulag, and were never seen again. The only traitor was Stalin.
>>1018837
>Soviet Propaganda Minister
He was just a journalist and writer without any connections with party or government, there was no "ministry of propaganda" in USSR in any form.
>>1018936
If you go by the declaration of war = starting war way, Germany started WW1 (the feud between Austria and Serbia being a vregional conflict)
>>1018950
Treaty of Versailles was a lot more generous than what was imposed on France during the Franco-Prussian war
>>1018837
>taking quotes out of context
Bravo!
>>1020058
>Treaty of Versailles was a lot more generous than what was imposed on France during the Franco-Prussian war
>I'm too dumb to actually compare both treaties but I'll post anyway!
