Why didn't the Nazi fanatics like the SS etc wage a guerilla war when the Third Reich fell?
(same question about the committed Japs on the mainland - they 'kinda' did in their South East/Pacific Asia holdings. pic related).
Germans like to obey orders. They historically never resisted occupying invaders.
Hitler commiting sudoku kinda made the whole thing moot
>>1018458
> Why didn't the Nazi fanatics like the SS etc wage a guerilla war when the Third Reich fell?
> didn't
As if.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf
>>1018458
Hitler spent the final months of the war blaming everyone else for the failure of his war. His words and actions did not go unnoticed by the leaderships.
>In the Waffen-SS he stripped the 1st Waffen-SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler of their armband, and by that point of the war, much of the actual soldiering Waffen-SS men were:
>A/ drafted from the general population at a laxer restriction then the regular Heer
>B/ transfers from the regular Heer,
>C/ Foreigners
>The civilian arm of the SS were busy covering up whatever they could and stealing whatever that wasn't bolted down (Amon Goeth was sentenced to death by the Nazis before the Poles and Soviets killed him)
>When Hitler issued the Nero Decree, that was the final nail in the coffin. Speer got Waffen-SS generals such as Wilhelm Bittrich to help him work against it and even the head of the Reich Main Security Office Ernst Kaltenbrunner got involved, protecting Austrian culture from Nazi fires.
Then when Hitler finally killed him, the bubble burst. The oath to him had been broken by his hand, there was no point to continue a serious struggle. Sure, a few continued to fight after the war and many took their own lives, but Hitler betrayed them and they never forgot it.
>>1018524
Cool name, but by the looks, all they managed to do was a a few fellow Germans. Irrelevant Mayors at that. Montgomery's man was just killed by normal Army.
>>1018458
Because isolated Nip soldiers were in fucking island enemy territory where the locals were hostile to them and therefore cant believe anything they say. Shit like: ending the war for example.
Case in point: your example
>In the Philippines
>Cut off from any and all comms with your commanders.
>Can't escape.
That said, soldiers who did that were very rare. Most surrendered or killed themselves.
>>1018525
After being told that Hitler was stripping them of their armbands, the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler sent them back to Berlin in a chamberpot. True story.
>>1018458
Germany are order loving people. Instead of being childish and uppity, they admit defeat and start rebuilding rather than lashing out cowardly at foreign military.
Most of them died, since they were always at the front no matter where they were.
Some went into guerilla, most of them either got captured and shot on the spot or managed to flee.
Almost all of the die hard SS leaders were killed.
Either in combat, killed by the advancing Allies for executing German civilians and reprisal killings for killing Allied POWs, and killed by the Russians for being SS. The Russians really really did not like the SS, the SS being the culprits of most of the mass killings of Russians.
Then, to top it all off, the Germans started killing SS leaders because they were executing "traitors" who knew the war was lost, and then you have the fact Hitler started betraying the SS groups themselves, stripping armbands, blaming them, etc etc so a lot of the ones who did survive felt cheated and betrayed and stopped being SS.
With most of the die hard SS dead, most of the survivors behind bars, and the Germans themselves stripped of weapons, the very very few surviving and free SS members had very little they could actually do, and even less desire to do it what with how Hitler acted in the last year of the war.
>>1018458
There were the werwolf units that were supposed to be the Nazi resistance, made up of hardcore SS soldiers and Hitler Youth members using buried caches of weapons. In reality they were just a pipedream that didn't get the anywhere near the supplies and organisation they needed to be effective.
There were a few attacks attributed to them in the West. Eastern records are harder to pin down. Apparently 10,000 young men were hanged as "werwolf members" in the years after the war, though the place is found that information didn't know if they were actually werwolf fighters who had carried out attacks or it was just a convenient term to apply to any trouble makers the Soviets wanted rid of.
Entirely anecdotal but I've spoken to more than one British Army veteran who said that they were specifically ordered not to go anywhere outside of the base alone, well into the 50s, because Allied soldiers were still being killed by the few remaining fanatics.
>>1021637
Double checked Wikipedia on it. They hanged 600 and arrested 10,000 of which half never returned. So not much better...
>>1018489
Okay, you made me salty. First, the word your trying to say is seppuku not sudoku,, which is a number game. Secondly, Hitler was a pussy that took a cyanide pill instead of being captured by either Allies or Soveit, so cutting himself open with the knife is something he wouldn't do.
>>1021853
>being this new
>>1021853
>my board is full of reddit
>>1021858
Ehhhhhh, leave me alone you green texter. I'll just go back to watching Rome and lurking.
>>1018458
Guerilla resistance is something that happens when you get conquered, not when you're the conqueror who gets utterly beaten.
>>1018458
Simple. Their leaders signed the surrender treaty. As a professional military force, they would comply with their orders.
And by that time most Germans realized they were terribly, terribly mislead by the Nazis and just wanted the horror to be over.
>>1021853
>Okay, you made me salty. First, the word your trying to say is seppuku not sudoku,, which is a number game
>>1018458
The Germans were tired and felt guilty about it.
The far right has never really been about breaking the law in peacetime. That's more of a far left thing. It still happened, like the Beer Hall Putsch and whatnot (after which the Nazis denounced all illegal action), but overall radical traditionalists want their revolution nice and orderly, which requires taking over the systems of power from the inside, not crushing them in random attacks from without. There are exceptions, like the KKK and the Years of Lead and whatnot, but Nazism and Japanese nationalism had too much inherent respect for law and order, I think, even if it's an occupier's law and order. That's probably why right wing terrorism is so rare in comparison to left wing terrorism, despite what the media chooses to focus on. Also they knew they were beat fair and square.
>>1021893
hello tigero
Nah, the Germans did something far worse.
They taught sand niggers how to run insurgencies/terrorism in cells. Installed them with Nationalism.exe. Leaving the Sand Monkeys to go on to make things like AlQueso and ISIS.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
Hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
Hello Tigero
>>1021893
Hello tigero.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1022603
an amazingly fatuous claim
>>1022658
I'm pretty sure that was Rambo
>>1018458
Partly out of despair at Germany's total defeat, but also because many Nazis became obsessed with teh Soviet Union, see for example Otto Ernst Remer, "Hitler's Bodyguard" who worked with the USSR after the war despite never abandoning his Nazism.
>>1023861
Yeesh.
>>1022603
>The far right has never really been about breaking the law in peacetime.
This is just so wrong it's absurd. Radicals of all types have always been happy to break the law, since by definition they want to abolish change the legal structures of their society.
>>1023879
You can abolish and change the legal structures of society without terrorism, say by winning elections and doing everything nice and legally. Nazism was popular mass movement that came to power through the ballot box and cut deals with existing stakeholders, no? Japanese imperialists held up the Emperor as their figurehead. There are exceptions, but the far right seems less interested in bloody revolution for the sake of bloody revolution than the far left.
guerilla warfare only applies when theres no millions of troops occupying the land
every town, every corner could have an allied soldier standing next to it
remember even the russian partisan war could be handled by reserve divisions which took place in large unhabited territories or swamps
>>1023905
>You can abolish and change the legal structures of society without terrorism, say by winning elections and doing everything nice and legally.
Like the Social Democrats did?
>Nazism was popular mass movement that came to power through the ballot box and cut deals with existing stakeholders, no?
Well sure if you ignore the massive street violence and the virtual war waged on Germany's Communists, and the fact that Hitler didn't ever win a majority, he was handed the Chancellorship in part at least because of the violence the SA had used to destabilise the country, then yeah "thru the ballot box".
>There are exceptions, but the far right seems less interested in bloody revolution for the sake of bloody revolution than the far left.
There is zero evidence for this. Most people on both sides don't want to use violence, the radical fringe attracts people who like violence and whether you end up on the left or the right is largely down to the luck of your genes, upbringing and exposure.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1018476
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCtzow_Free_Corps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Ruhr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr_Red_Army
>>1023916
>guerilla warfare only applies when theres no millions of troops occupying the land
Wrong.
>every town, every corner could have an allied soldier standing next to it
More than wrong.
>>1018458
The answer is simple imho. Guerilla warfare needs a strong cause/an ideology. Nazism failed grandously and Hitler said more than once if Germany fails in the war the German people had no right to live.
There really was nothing to fight for.
>>1022603
>The far right has never really been about breaking the law in peacetime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapp_Putsch
>>1023918
>Like the Social Democrats did?
Social Democrats are far left? I thought they were just left. Are Social Democrats even radical? I'm sorry I don't know what you're saying here. I'm from another country.
>Well sure if you ignore the massive street violence and the virtual war waged on Germany's Communists, and the fact that Hitler didn't ever win a majority, he was handed the Chancellorship in part at least because of the violence the SA had used to destabilise the country, then yeah "thru the ballot box".
Communists were hardly the existing power structure in society. Political parties come to power through coalitions all the time in the parliamentary system. The Nazis relied on popular support which grew after they gained power. These kind of movements tend to be popular because they need mass support to accomplish reshaping society.
>There is zero evidence for this.
Look up the FBI crime stats on the ideological affiliations of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks in the US maybe? You'll notice that, if we set aside Muslims, who though I admit are rightist are a bit of a dark horse to our discussion since they're outsiders to the U.S. political system, you'll notice that far left terror attacks easily outnumber far right terror attacks by an order of magnitude.
>>1023943
Read past the first sentence of my post please.
>>1023939
yes another amerifat retard
get lost
>>1023946
>Social Democrats are far left?
Depends on what you are talking about. They officially abolished their revolutionary program only in the 1960s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godesberg_Program
>Communists were hardly the existing power structure in society.
This is turbo wrong mate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold
There are many more examples.
Are you guys even talking about Germany?
>>1023918
>Hitler didn't ever win a majority
He did. The DNVP said they would vote Hitler during the campaign. Hitler gained over 50% i.e. the absolute majority.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1018458
>One of the four, Yuichi Akatsu walked away from the others in September 1949 and surrendered to Filipino forces in 1950 after six months on his own. This seemed like a security problem to the others and they became even more careful. In 1952 letters and family pictures were dropped from aircraft urging them to surrender, but the three soldiers concluded that this was a trick. Shimada was shot in the leg during a shoot-out with local fishermen in June 1953, after which Onoda nursed him back to health. On May 7, 1954, Shimada was killed by a shot fired by a search party looking for the men. Kozuka was killed by two shots fired by local police on October 19, 1972,
>50's-70''s
Jesus. I wonder what these men were thinking as -knowing the Philippines- Police weapons were suddenly getting better like m14s and m16s
>>1023951
You fuck off. The reason is given by Heinrich August Winkler in "Der lange Weg nach Westen". Basic literature in German so blow me.
Here have some online sources:
http://www.stern.de/politik/geschichte/ian-kershaw--die-totale-niederlage-musste-sein--3555106.html
http://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article116156011/Die-groessten-Niederlagen-der-deutschen-Geschichte.html
http://www.bpb.de/gesellschaft/medien/bilder-in-geschichte-und-politik/73150/ende-des-zweiten-weltkriegs?p=all
>>1023952
>>1023946
>>Social Democrats are far left?
>Depends on what you are talking about. They officially abolished their revolutionary program only in the 1960s.
And in Britain only in the 1990's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV
>The DNVP said they would vote Hitler during the campaign.
Did they mean it, tho? Especially once they saw that their votes would tip Hitler over the winning post?
>>1018458
M8, Otto Skorzeny pretty much rounded up Waffen SS veterans and founded one of the first Private Security Firms in history -Paladin Group- which ostensibly provided security for businesses in dangerous areas but also provided under-the-table military advisement for right wing groups in Latin-America.
>>1023962
>Did they mean it, tho?
Does it really matter? The voters thought they meant it and voted for them anyway.
BTW I fucked up they didn't have the absolute majority but by far enough to propose a new chancellor. In any case historians describe Hitler's rise to power as a legal process. Some even argue that the his reign was constitutional (not only right-wingers saying Hitler didntdunuffingwrong).
>>1023946
>Look up the FBI crime stats on the ideological affiliations of the perpetrators of terrorist attacks in the US maybe?
> Twenty three of the 24 recorded terrorist incidents [between 2002 and 2005] were perpetrated by domestic terrorists. With the exception of a white supremacist’s firebombing of a synagogue in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, all of the domestic terrorist incidents were committed by special interest extremists active in the animal rights and environmental movements.
So yeah, you're a fucking idiot.
>>1023977
>you'll notice that far left terror attacks easily outnumber far right terror attacks by an order of magnitude.
? Aren't you guys saying the same?
Also citing the FBI as an objective source is funny.
>>1023977
Uh...ecoterrorists aren't left of centre? Anyway I can find you the stats if you want.
>>1018458
most of them died fighting, hence no post occupation resistance
>>1023993
>most of them died fighting
Wrong. Only like 30% of them died.
>>1023985
How are 'eco terrorists' affiliated with left or right aside from ephemeral associations with one side or the other in regards to environmental issues.
>>1024004
stats? i have no hard proof either way, but knowing their fanatical will to serve, i assume alot would have died fighting for the endseig. the battle for berlin was filled with fanatical nazi resistance
>>1024009
>eco terrorists
Not that guy but how the fuck are they not?
>The thought behind eco-terrorism rises from the radical environmentalism movement, which gained popularity during the 1960s.[6] Ideas that arose from radical environmentalism are "based on the belief that capitalism, patriarchal society, and the Judeo-Christian tradition were responsible for the despoliation of nature"
>>1024022
>Communists didn't fuck up the Aral sea
It seems more like it's own position separate from the artificial left-right dichotomy.
>>1024015
>Für Deutschland schwanken die Angaben zwischen 5,5 (Statistisches Bundesamt 1991) und 6,9 Millionen Kriegstoten (Bevölkerungs-Ploetz 1965).[10] Darunter waren nach der bisher genauesten Untersuchung von Rüdiger Overmans (1999) 5,3 von 18,2 Millionen zwischen 1939 und 1945 eingezogenen deutschen Soldaten (28 Prozent).[11]
>Rüdiger Overmans: Deutsche militärische Verluste im Zweiten Weltkrieg, Oldenbourg, München 1999
>>1024009
So the environmentalist movement is right wing?
>>1024027
Kind of like some kind of Third Position? lol
>>1024027
>everybody who is left wing aligns with the Soviet Union
There are right wing eco-freaks but they are by far the minority. Animal Liberation front, green-anarchism etc. are all left wing. I dare you to name one active red-wing eco-movement able to organize terror attacks.
>>1024027
>ignoring the quote
>>1024046
right-wing.
Sorry.
>>1024046
>name one active right-wing eco-movement able to organize terror attacks
Would you call shoot to kill policies for poachers right wing?
>>1024027
Aral Sea was actually mostly fucked up by the various -stans after USSR fell though the Soviets did put up the infrastructure for it to happen.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1024055
Yeah mate but to be fair many, many organizations have claimed some sort of third position/way. Like in Germany a clearly right wing group (PEGIDA) does that right now. That doesn't necessarily mean they are right.
>environmental party
You mean a party people can actually vote for? If so which one exactly?
>>1024093
>You mean a party people can actually vote for? If so which one exactly?
Well I'm Australian, and there is a greens party in national politics, I don't completely agree with them, but I agree with the general points not the particular implementation proposed, they are a bit too far left leaning currently (I'm pro guns etc).
>>1024107
There's been a bit of disruption, but I don't really understand how environmentalists are classified as terrorists at all, unless it's due to hedonists being triggered.
>>1024113
Have you read the thread? The FBI lists terror attacks and some of them were motivated by green-anarchists. I assume that means animal liberation or blowing up company owned building and shit.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1024115
Seems like terrorism as extensive as christians and abortion clinics I guess, results from the views of particular individuals rather than being the norm.
>ted kaczynski
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1020532
WW2 was all about being childish and not admitting defeat.
>>1024139
Right. And now compare the scale of the defeats in WWI and WII.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
Hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1018555
Werwolf was integrated into NATO structures and thus never heard of again. Victor writes history.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
They should of killed that tiger. We all know that autism is contagious and the vectors for that disease need to be destroyed immediately.
>>1018568
Also, some of the stay behinds were prepared in advanced, such as Hiroo Onada, who received specific training to hold out like he did, as part of a coordinate plan and not a last minute defense.
Also, most of them mostly stayed because the jungle was comfy.
>>1021853
>Okay, you made me salty. First, the word your trying to say is seppuku not sudoku,, which is a number game.
>>1021893
Hello Tigero.
>>1021893
hello tigero
Allied commanders were all scared that the Germans had built up this huge series of Alpine Fortresses. Where the Nazi fanatics would hold up and fight for years.
in fact several germany military commanders used this fear to get favorable surrender terms. telling the allies that they had these mountain strongholds. that if they were given immunity from any warcrime trials. They would have all their men surrender. Which of course was all fiction.
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tigero
>>1021893
hello tiger
>>1028225
DOWN SYNDROME.
>>1021893
hello tigero
Actually this makes me thing, why was there no Communist insurgency in the Eastern Block/Russia post 1991? You would think there would be quite a lot of true believers pissed that the "Revolution" had been "overthrown" by Capitalists, Far-right Americans at that.
>>1028970
Because Communism had always been facade for ethnic interests. It was started by Jews who wanted to get back at the Russians. Then Stalin took over, purged most of the Jews, and after he died the Russians took over. By that point the whole thing was a thinly-veiled mask for Russian domination of every one else. All the other ethnic groups wanted out, and the Russians were no longer in any position economically or politically to stop them. Also, most Russians prefered real ethnic nationalism to the pseudo-ethnic nationalism that Communism gave them.
>>1028970
In case of former Soviet puppets it would be impossible to have any true believers in communistm, especially since communist give up powers more peacefully in end and tried be politically revelant in democratic states.
>>1018458
Better judgment? Moving to greener pastures, overwhelming odds etc.. I think it'd be clear to see that not much could be gained from an insurgency in Germany. They the US/Soviets would never let go.
>>1028970
The people didn't especially like communism
>>1021893
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>>1021893
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>>1021893
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>>1028970
Dude, Russia is big. There's probably a town out east that still lives as if a Tsar sat on the throne of Russia.
>>1021893
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>>1021893
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