Why do Germanboos and other simple animals cry about Treaty of Versailles and how terrible it was for Germany?
They still didn't get enough for atrocities they committed(especially in Belgium) during war and they occupied Western Poland anyway.
So why do germanboos cry so much about it? Germany had a realistic chance to be a superpower without another war, they could easily rebuild themselves.
because they are muh grossgermanium autists
>>1013451
They forget their own Brest treaty when they steal so much Russia as they can.
Germany should be balkanized after first war.
Why do people like bringing up that the Germans lost coal mines and farmlands as some sort of argument?
They were mostly placed in Polish or French majority land, thinking it was fair that the Germans lost them isn't that logical a far as I get it.
>>1013471
>Germany should be balkanized after first war.
Yes and wasn't balkanized because of German sympathisers in UK. Muh Teutonic race n shit.
>>1013451
All I care about is aesthetically pleasing maps which the Treaty of Versailles fucked up.
>being so greedy for a few square miles of clay and Africa you shit in your neighbour so hard they return to buttfuck you 20 years later
I'm more asspained about St. Germain and Trianon if you ask me. Germany was at least allowed to continue existing.
>>1013487
>Trianon
holy shit, this.
>>1013505
>Poland defeats Bolsheviks stopping their march on Europe
>Germany defeats Europe allowing Bolsheviks to grab the entire Central/Eastern Europe which caused sissyfying of the society
>>1013451
I'm sorry, is this /int/? The fucking MUH RIVAL COUNTRIES between Eurofags is so annoying.
>ETERNAL ANGLO.
>F-FRANCE WAS A POWER.
>FUCK GERMANY, RIGHT?
>H
>R
>E
>>1013505
>>1013524
>>1013533
You can't even discuss anything here without autists getting butthurt and defending like a dog the biggest failure of the European history, German """""""""Empire"""""""""
>>1013535
I don't understand why should Germany have been balkanized?
>>1013535
The whole of Modern Europe is the biggest failure in European History.
You're all a fucking American periphery nowadays.
>>1013548
Thanks to your dependency on colonialism and the inability to handle Modern Geopolitics.
>Desperately clinging to Colonies by the 1960's despite being fucking wrecked by war.
>>1013451
>Belgium
There were war crimes but it was massively overblown by British propagandists. It was by no means worse than what the Brits did in South Africa or China in the previous decades.
>they occupied Western Poland anyway.
Nice bait.
>So why do germanboos cry so much about it?
I don't think it's only "germanboos" but neutral observers like Keynes as well. In general, the reparations contributed to economical and political instability. The confiscation of the merchant fleet heavily impaired the exporting branches of the economy. In 1921, the allies demanded 269 billion gold marks (about 90,000 tons) over 42 years. When the Germans declined the Allies occupied the Ruhr area which lead to political uproar and again harmed the economy. In the end the Germans accepted 132 billion gold marks in 66 years as well as paying the value of 26% of their annual exports. The radical parties of Weimar Germany greatly benefitted from this situation.
>Germany had a realistic chance to be a superpower without another war
No, they didn't. Middle power yes, but the only way to become a superpower in that age was to control a large piece of land wich gives you ressources, agricultural output and room for the expansion of the population. USA and Russia met these requirements, Germany did not. Becoming a colonial superpower like Britain was not doable; also, the colonial empires would dissolve anyway so this turned out to be an unsustainable way of becoming a superpower.
Also, Wilson promised self-determination of the peoples but in many of the ceded territories there were no referendums to be held.
>>1013657
Western Poland or Greater Poland plus Eastern Pomerania was land of Polish Crown that was stolen by Prussia. Even better The Duchy of Poznan that was Prussia spoil from Napoleonic war was suposed to have great autonomy and local customs but they were quickly dismantled.
Poznan was liberated from German occupation by local population in on and only polish succesfull uprising.
Germany pay for war because they lost. France suffer massive losses and destruction of land. If you think that Germany would behave better I remind you about treaty of Brest were they take as much clay from Russia as possible or how they rob France after they win war against them?
Not mention great disturbance that made France republic or Russia bolshewik shithole.
If you compare treaty that Geramny get to ones they offer to Russia or France or to treaty that Allies force Austro Hungary it wasn't that bad.
Germany wasn't even fully united by 50 years at this time.
Granting independence to Bavaria, Saxony an other entities would probably prevent 2nd WW. At last Germany starting it.
But UK oppose it as it would leave the France as main power on the continent.
Eternal anglo strikes again.
>>1013451
"Rape of Belgium" was a hoax dumbass.
>>1013867
Is this allegory to current state of Germanium and that they need Slavs to clean things again?
>>1013451
>Why do Germanboos and other simple animals cry about Treaty of Versailles and how terrible it was for Germany?
Well, if one of the treaty paragraphs literally places all fault committed and later found on Germany, that holds about as much legitimacy to their actual fault as any "people's republic" who claim to be just that, nowadays.
Personally, I blame Austria for going all Erdogan with fucking Serbia because some out of job no good killed the liberal/reformist heir of the Empire.
Maybe that observation is wrong, but I find it kind of similar to the Syrian civil war and the Western toppling of Arab regimes. All is well, until you hit the state that is allied with Russia. Same happened in the Balkans back then, but with Serbia instead of Syria.
>Belgium
Well, if it is a warcrime then find the perpetrators and trial them. Find some neutral cost analysts who put some values on the damages done and reparate the survivors and relatives and then be done with it.
>So why do germanboos cry so much about it? Germany had a realistic chance to be a superpower without another war, they could easily rebuild themselves.
It is hard to say. Some anons already said that a lot was promised and the winners wanted to be above some subhuman and old fashioned landgrabbing and then they just did that. How would you trust such winners?
The few places where the self determination of the people was actually upheld, all voted for staying in Germany however.
>>1013867
at least they can do something right, unlike germans
>>1013865
>Western Poland or Greater Poland plus Eastern Pomerania was land of Polish Crown that was stolen by Prussia.
Okay, senpai. The areas in the East that remained with Germany were majority-German for the most part. I don't see how Poland should have an eternal claim on them, just as Austria shouldn't have a claim on Venetia or Lombardy who were "robbed" by Piemont/Italy.
>Brest
The reparation sum of Brest was 5 billion gold mark, compared to 269 billion (later reduced to 132 billion of the Versailles treaty. The monetary reparations were the biggest pain in the ass. Besides, Russia only lost non-Russian territory (in accordance with the self-determination of people principle), Germany also lost majority German territory (Alsace, Malmedy, Memel (? not sure about that) without referendum.
>>1014016
Teritories that was mostly German was lost after II WW. Greater Poland and so called Polish corridor were mostly Polish and also victm of German Kulturkampf and foced goverment sponsored German colonization.
The most Germans who 'run' fom Poland from 'persecution' were mostly colonist who lost their goverment jo in german adminstration or lost land that was firstly seized from local Poles. Many just packed and go back home.
I admit that Danzing and Western Pomerania and pat of Silesia was German or Germanized.
But now its Polish. The German are gone. Mostly. Thanks to Stalin. Now the even start removing themselves from geramany.
The Russia lost most of their arable richest and most industralizied lands. These lands was expected to become German puppets but Geramany lost on Western front. Or not. In treaty there were not mentions about Poland or independent Baltic states.
The money was means to keep Geramany low and with not enough funds to rearm. It didn't work. Also to pay for colosal destruction in France.
If Germany were dismantled they wuldnt probably need to pay that much. In the end it was money or land.
>>1014016
>The areas in the East that remained with Germany were majority-German for the most part
Yes. But I thin he meant Poznań, which was majority polish and this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland_Uprising_(1918%E2%80%9319)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Uprisings
>I don't see how Poland should have an eternal claim on them
Sure, but saying that it's 100% German is also a mistake, since Germans weren't even in Eastern Germany when Poles owned both "Breslau" and "Stettin".
Doesn't change the fact that Poles didn't even wanted western lands after WW2, they've been robbed off their eastern ones, which was a lot more than they gained.
>>1014129
>>1014120
half of eastern Prussia was full of Poles
>>1013900
>Well, if one of the treaty paragraphs literally places all fault committed and later found on Germany
but it literally does no such thing
>>1014142
>Berlin
>At least 50% Polish
Never mind that those white spots in Eastern Prussia represent ALL towns over a thousand and the countryside was simply low-density littered with Polish homesteaders and woodcutters (mostly closer to 50% than 75%), but all these maps are just made to piss off whoever belongs to the subject group because no one ever thinks about density.
The fact is 12m Germans were displaced in Potsdam Conference decisions while only Warsaw experienced major displacement for Poles under the Nazis.
And they still can't Polify Silesia.
>>1014253
>And they still can't Polify Silesia.
???
Silesians always spoke dialect of Polish though.
>>1014016
>Alsace
>majority German
In the 18th century maybe, but not in 1918
>>1014679
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#First_language_.281900.29
>>1013487
>tfw no Habsburg empire
Fuck Austria-Hungary come back
You were too good for this world ;_;7
>(especially in Belgium)
Go back to Brussels
>>1014872
Because language =/= nationality. Look at Jews or the Irish.
>>1013451
>and they occupied Western Poland anyway.
You aren't even trying to hide your nationality.
Why are Poles so butthurt, lads?
I come here to discuss history, not to hear them complain about evil Germany
>>1015399
Due to constant contact with German """"""""merchants"""""""", Poles absorbed the German pathological desire to be relevant.
>>1014253
>while only Warsaw experienced major displacement for Poles under the Nazis.
Not sure if trolling or just retarded.
t. descendant of Poles that were given 0,5 hour to pack and leave in order to give place for German settlers.
>>1013657
>The confiscation of the merchant fleet heavily impaired the exporting branches of the economy.
Consider not invading two nations that had been trying to stay neutral even after the declaration of war on Russia in the future if you don't want people to fuck with your economy.
>In 1921, the allies demanded 269 billion gold marks (about 90,000 tons) over 42 years.
Because the Weimar Republic had deliberately induced hyperinflation in order to devalue their debt, destroying their own economy in the process.
>When the Germans declined the Allies occupied the Ruhr area
The 1871 Versailles treaty had German troops occupying France until ALL of its debt was paid. France's decision to occupy the Ruhr until the ANNUAL payment was paid is pretty mild in comparison, given not a single French soldier occupied German territory between 1918 and 1921.
>which lead to political uproar and again harmed the economy.
The Weimar Republic printing enough money to tank the Papiermark was what harmed the fucking economy.
>In the end the Germans accepted 132 billion gold marks in 66 years as well as paying the value of 26% of their annual exports.
Poor baby. The 1871 Treaty of Versailles that the Germans levied on France imposed a proportionally larger part of France's GDP than the 1919 treaty imposed on Germany, a nation whose industrial heartland was completely untouched by war.
The allies (particularly the UK and United States) treated Germany pretty leniently given that Germany invaded France and Belgium, destroying their most highly industrialized regions and then was so mad at the possibility that they might need to pay up for doing so that it literally destroyed its own economy in order to render their owed reparations worthless.
Here's a peer-reviewed source. It's publically available on JSTOR.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4545835?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>>1013487
I saw Hungary at the Grand Trianon Palace in Versailles yesterday, I told him how cool it was to meet him, because he was next on my list, but didn't want to be a douche and tell him the news yet or anything.
He said "Oh, like you're doing now?"
I was taken aback, all I could say was "WAS? ZUM KONZENTRATIONSLAGER", but he kept cutting me off and going "TRIANON? TRIANON? TRIANON?" and closing his hand shut in front my face. I walked away and continued preparing my Zyklon B and I heard him raging as I walked away. When I came to see how the treaty was going I saw him trying to walk with 7 pieces of stolen clay (one even bigger than his own righteous clay) in his hands without paying.
France at the palace was very nice about it and professional and was like "Sir, you need to give that clay back to their righteous owners". At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear but eventually (forced) turned back around and gave them up.
When the French took each of the lands started checking their population census realizing that Hungarians were indeed not majority in those lands, he stopped her and told to check again each of them individually "to prevent any shilling" and then turned around and winked at me. I don't even think that's a word. After France scanned each piece of clay and wrote them down in the treaty and started to say the unfortunate (for Hungary of course) news, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly and screaming "CIGANY, CIGANY, CIGANY, NEVER FORGET NEVER FORGET"
Poland is literally the shitbucket of europe
Its as big as germany with half the population and nothing impressive ever came out of it
Never won a war or start an empire
Sucks ball at sports of any kind
Implied huge jewish population but sucks shit at finance and economics
Hitler literally see the poles as subhumans and wants polish clay so he can populate the aryans from germany in it.
Any average person will only know poland as "that country that was annihilated by the germans in the WWII".
Most are surprised it still exist.
Most people cant even find poland on the map and consistently mistook poland for either hungary or austria.
Its a country that is consistently bullied by countries around it and have absolutely no power to fight back due to its absolute low morale within its army and people.
Poland is so uninteresting and dull that nobody, even the arabs or the indians(well known for their immigration to western countries) wants to live there
Poland was supposed to be extinct and the amazement of it continuing its pathetic life like a dying rat is what makes poland literally the shithole of europe
So fucking useless and incompetent you mistook it as a 3rd world country
>>1015700
t. Ivan Tatarov
Was accepting the 1918 armistice a mistake? Should the allies have kept the war going until they reached Berlin?
Maybe the germans would have understood Versailles then?
>>1014192
>I can't read
Article 231
The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Germany accepts the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies.
Okay, I misremembered that the whole "fault later found" is actually in the paragraphs following 231, but still give a huge leverage to the Allies for finding new stuff that needed reparation.
>>1016694
>The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Germany accepts the responsibility of Germany and her allies
>and her allies
It would be hard to name Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, one of which effectively didn't exist anymore and the other one was crumbling, but they were included as Germany's allies. Article 232 limits responsibility to civilian damage to begin with. The allies never found new stuff that needed reparation anyhow--hell, the amount demanded in 1921 was significantly smaller than the amount demanded in 1919. The idea that this was a blank check or that Germany alone was either held responsible or faulted is also addressed in the first 3-4 pages of the link at >>1015435
And, for that matter, even if it DID only single out Germany as the dealer of civilian damage to the allies, is that not true for at least Belgium (Russia having already settled with the treaty of Brest-Litovsk)? Regardless of who was most directly responsible for the war or any alleged atrocities, it isn't exactly debatable that Germany invaded Belgium and France, and was responsible for damage done to civilian populations there.
>>1014120
You do know that all those lands used to be Polish for centuries until the "Prussians" annexed it and colonized it with their own "people"?
>>1015700
>Hitler literally see the poles as subhumans and wants polish clay so he can populate the aryans from germany in it.
Hitler loved the polish cock and wanted german women to get impregnated with their kind.
>>1016694
The lack of reading skills is strong in this one.
Article 231 says about
>the loss and damage
- which means civil damages. There''s nothing about responsibility for the war.
>>1013559
EUROKEKS BTFO
Those anti-German hateboner threads getting more ridiculous everyday.
>>1013451
U mad Tommy? :^)
>>1017200
>as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies
You should learn to fucking read.
