The performing arts don't seem to get a lot of love on /his/, but I'm sure that not the entire lot of you are knuckle-dragging troglodytes.
Post favorite performances, recommendations, critiques, your performing arts waifu or husbando (mine's in pic), or whatever you want.
Some topics and questions to get going:
>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
>Does so-called "performance art" have a place among the traditional performing arts?
bump
We're a board of Romaboos and Romans hated actors.
>>1010432
This could be an interesting but most likely short-lived thread.
>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
'20th Century music' refers to a lot of different styles and artistic directions. I enjoy Stravinsky every now and again.
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
Yes.
>Does so-called "performance art" have a place among the traditional performing arts?
It doesn't matter.
>>1010779
Actors love Romans.
>>1010810
>This could be an interesting but most likely short-lived thread.
Yeah, sadly quality threads can't keep up with the nonstop christcuck shitposting machine.
>I enjoy Stravinsky every now and again
What works? Do you prefer his Neoclassical phase or his early ballets more? Any thoughts on his """""serial"""" pieces?
>yes
Wew. I think a lot of the time they can be fun and allow for greater room for the directors interpretation. What's the reasoning behind your view?
>It doesn't matter
I agree, I just thought it would attract shitposting.
>>1010893
Jesus where are his pants
>>1010941
I didn't realize that we required slave rebels to wear pants.
>>1010933
>What works? Do you prefer his Neoclassical phase or his early ballets more? Any thoughts on his """""serial"""" pieces?
I like his ballets a lot, especially Petrushka and The Rite of Spring. I'm also intrigued by his piece Histoire du soldat, though I can see how it could be seen as boring to some. Not quite so interested in his neoclassical stuff. His serial pieces, like all serial pieces, tend to be more 'brain music' than 'ear music' & I think they're outside of Stravinsky's general style of expanding tonality rather than outright denying it. Part of me wants to say that his engagement in serial music was solely for the purpose of angering Schoenberg, the inventor of the serial method and Stravinsky's rival at the time.
>Wew. I think a lot of the time they can be fun and allow for greater room for the directors interpretation. What's the reasoning behind your view?
I just said this as a stock answer. I haven't really seen too many operas in my time, I just don't enjoy them as much.
>>1011071
I have never found that Stravinsky ever really delves into atonality, despite using the twelve-tone technique, so I don't really know if I agree with you on that point. I also don't think that he was trying to anger Schoenberg, since Schoenberg was already dead when he started writing pieces in a 12-tone style.
I personally think that it's his way of grudgingly admitting that it was an interesting idea.
On the idea of staying tonal while using serial methods, how do you like Berg?
>I just said this as a stock answer
100% forgivable then.
>>1010432
>>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
Best century ever for music, based on all counts.
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
no they're fine
>Does so-called "performance art" have a place among the traditional performing arts?
Don't know what that means 2bh
>>1011224
>Don't know what that means 2bh
No one is, really
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-_VmAzicFs
>>1011218
>On the idea of staying tonal while using serial methods, how do you like Berg?
Berg was interesting, though I haven't really delved into his music too much. The Second Viennese School was fairly interesting in general. Tbh I'm a classical music pleb, sorry
Does anyone else love ballet but live in an area that's starved for professional productions? I am so envious of people who live in New York or even Houston, who have access to great companies that have annual seasons. We're lucky if we get a single professional ballet company touring show in Michigan each year, and no I will not count the Ballet Met Columbus Nutcracker because it's technically painful to watch.
We got the ABT 'Sleeping Beauty' Pepita reconstruction this year and it was astounding. Next year we're only getting some odd jazz-based Cinderella show that is mostly not ballet and I have no desire to see it based on the clips I've seen.
>>1011287
Hey, I'm looking to start taking ballet lessons. Do you have any recommendations about how many classes I should take/what kind of studio I should start taking lessons at?
>>1010432
Yes, I know it's light operetta. But this is sublime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP2qJXT3olM
This was my father's favourite piece of music.
We played it at his memorial service.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PYt2HlBuyI
>>1011360
Assuming you're an adult: find a studio that offers classes to adults. They are somewhat uncommon, but not impossible to find.
The first type of class you should be taking is a workshop class that will teach you the basics. Workshop classes can vary in length from studio to studio, and they may even offer sequential workshops--like Beginner I & II, then Beginner Extended I & II, etc. In my opinion, if you haven't danced before, each workshop classs should be 6-8 sessions. If they do offer sequential workshops, go for it!
After workshopping, you can look towards beginner classes. They might be drop-in classes or registered depending on the studio. From there... practice, work, practice! I would also recommend checking out tutorials and videos on youtube, but only after you've taken workshop-style classes to make sure that your technique is proper from an actual teacher.
>>1011423
I couldn't find any workshops in my area, but there is a studio with a Beginner I class starting this week that says it's for students with "little to no dance training" Maybe I'll start with that?
Just another question, if you're a guy who started dancing as an adult (or you know people who are), are you aware if they're kind of treated in a weird way? I know the question seems kind of strange, but I've noticed this thing that happens in places like ballroom dancing and swing societies where people are for no reason really angry about men who don't know how to dance showing up and trying to learn.
Performing arts arent humanities or history though.
>>1011492
"Classical artwork" is not limited to painting and sculpture, retard.
>>1011485
I'd say try the Beginner I class. If you feel it's too advanced, I would talk to the studio and see if they offer anything that is more about the fundamentals or can recommend someone that does.
In general, yes, if you start dancing as an adult you may be treated in a standoffish way. It's basically elitism that runs in every type of group--you're the outsider coming in at a certain age with no experience, when they've been doing it for years and have more notches in their belt, and have already carved out their place in a group.
With ballet it's a bit trickier because there's this idea of "why are you even bothering? you'll never be a professional!" among people who have been dancing since their single digits, which is why it's best to find studios who welcome adult beginners. You shouldn't come across that attitude in the beginner classes because you're all starting out, and the teacher should approach the class in a positive way.
I'd recommend checking out this short documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtuGVjmmmAs
>>1011492
Performing arts are a humanity.
>>1011402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucVYRaVxGko
This is the based Au fond du temple saint
>>1011224
>no they're fine
Then what do you think about the Regietheater productions at the Bayreuther festspiele?
Do you think that the festival should be for allowing new artists to interpret Wagner on their own terms, or do you think that it should be about preserving his highly detailed original vision for the work? (obviously, it's become the former, but if you had your druthers)
>>1011532
idk man, but I've always loved this Wagner production for sheer goofiness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wOE4yMnyOc
>I could fap to this
>>1011523
>why are you even bothering? you'll never be a professional!
What a goofy attitude. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to be a professional ballerina, dancing classical ballet at least. Modern or Baroque dance, I can understand it a little more.
Doing this as your job would be fantastic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZ6KnVPvIU
What are some visually interesting moments you can recall from a performing arts production you've seen?
Lately I keep thinking back to the suicide scene in a local production of Madama Butterfly, pic not related but I can't find any for the production I saw. They had Butterfly change into a white robe on stage, which was still covered in white flower petals from the earlier scene. She picked up the sword, unsheathed it, and dragged it across her neck--as she did red flower petals came spurting out like blood. I'm assuming the petals were inside the sword's handle and there's a button on the blade or handle that triggered them. In any case, the effect was memorable as hell.
>>1011585
well... that is not the picture I meant to use at all. That's Titanic: the Musical. Here's Madama Butterfly.
>>1011585
This moment during Einstein on the Beach absolutely changed my life. It was the single most amazing moment I've ever witnessed in a work of art.
I have no fucking idea how to express it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fliydMwcdFM
this counts right?
>>1011585
and, actually, the image I posted accidentally was a really eerie visual from that production of Titanic: the Musical. In this production the back platform was used to represent the boat deck at this point in time, and as Mr. Andrews is singing about his vision of the ship sinking, the back platform very slowly starts tilting up (as if we're looking at the ship head-on) while the darkened silhouettes of the passengers struggling and sliding and being hit by various objects played below. Eventually the platform was pulled back completely, to where Mr. Andrews was holding on the railing, dangling from it. At the end of the song, he drops, and it goes black immediately.
So much more effective than all of the big bombastic versions of the show I've seen over the years.
>>1011599
could you explain what happened?
>>1011622
Um, I can only give sort of a technical description. It's during the Bed section.
A lighting element, about 60 feet long, lays on the bottom of the stage. It begins rotating upwards until it is perfectly vertical, then is lifted up until it disappears completely above the stage, leaving the auditorium completely black.
There's a video of it, but it's hard to understand how goddamn big this thing is and how awesome the moment is just watching it:
https://vimeo.com/86194413
Is this board where all the theatrefriends went? I'm so glad we're still alive
The final scene from the Rhin production of Dialogues des Carmelites is one of my favorite things to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ubBODy4N0
Their faces when the guillotine blade noise comes in add such a startling element to an already intense scene, which grows dimmer and dimmer as each voice dies.
>>1011648
huh, interesting. Yeah, it's hard to capture the magnitude of it without being able to visualize the size of the piece.
Does professional wrestling count?
Anybody else in here majoring in performing arts?
Going for my BA in musical theatre
Its always nice to see a performing arts thread, if anyone's wants a certain cast recording of a show (mostly musicals) I got a pretty big collect of a little over 1000 different shows, here's what I already uploaded
http://pastebin.com/ehWCCpa1
>>1011729
I (OP) did a year of conservatory for composition, and another 2 years at an art school. Are you on the East Coast?
>>1011785
Yup studying in south Florida
>>1011789
Oh, so that's kind of far removed from the big cities then. How is studying art and not being able to go to gigantic professional productions?
>>1011804
Funny enough we have a shit ton of theatres down here its just alot more regional. We get a good amount of shows down here I think this season has Something Rotten coming
Bumping with the best Musical Theatre waifu
I-is dank minimalism allowed here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy3W-3HPMWg
>>1011485
I've thought a little more about the way men are treated in ballroom and swing.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's just frustrating, because a new guy can't really do anything, but you can still shove a new girl around. It's just easier to get started learning the roles as a woman, and leading is a lot harder.
I'm hoping that will be less of a problem in ballet, since everyone will be useless at the start.
I don't really have hopes for this show, but Betsy Wolfe has been cast as Elsa in the upcoming Broadway production of Frozen. She's currently slated to sing at an upcoming Little Mermaid concert, along with Darren Criss--god I hope this doesn't mean Criss is being considered for any Frozen roles.
>>1013906
At least she's a qt.
>>1013906
I'm sure Disney will sink a lot of money into it. I wonder if they'll keep Olaf? I can't see them deviating too much from the film since the target audience will be kids for this one.
I'm more excited for the new adaptation of Anastasia, though I'm worried it will fall into the same trap as the recent version of Hunchback of Notre Dame--taking a property associated with a family film and making it too dark for general audiences.
>>1013906
Who playes Anna?
>>1014065
Not cast yet.
Does anyone care about the Pulitzer prize? How did you guys like Anthracite Fields?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxeLU9nyia4
What are the essential operas? Essential ballet? Essential musical theater? Essential plays?
Cyrano de Beregac
>>1011532
I think it would be ideal if we had both.
I've seen productions of Shakespeare with modern settings that have been absolutely fantastic (Throne of Blood is a great film adapted from Macbeth) I'd also love to see one of those autistic ones with Shakesperean pronounciation and cross-dressing actors or whatever.
In mucsic for example, there are two great renditions from Carmina Burana, one is a modern reconstruction attempting to accurate with lyrics, melody and instrumentation, though interpretation is obviously up to the performers as the info we have is very scarce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ-Cflb38Q
And then there is carl orff's version which is entirely contemporary to him, using only lyrics, which is still great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEllLECo4OM
Pic unrelated
>>1015973
For Musical theatre you have classical and contemporary
For Classical there is
West Side Story
Oklahoma
Show Boat
Sound of Music
King & I
Annie
Guys & Dolls
For Contemporary
Les Miserables
Chicago
Chorus Line
Rent
Phantom of the Opera
Next to Normal
Sweeney Todd
Hair
Jesus Christ Superstar
>be obsessed with Miss Saigon for almost 2 decades
>finally see Madama Butterfly live
>get to appreciate the various musical motifs from Madama Butterfly which were woven into Miss Saigon
Neat.
>>1015973
I made this list of basic gotta watch operas for another thread. It is by no means a comprehensive guide to opera, but if you've seen all of them you have a pretty good introduction to opera imo:
Baroque opera:
L'Orfeo -Monteverdi (Italian)
Rinaldo - Handel (English)
Classical Opera:
Alceste - Gluck (Italian or French)
The Magic Flute - Mozart (German)
Romantic (pre-1850ish) opera:
Fidelio - Beethoven (Italian)
Lucia di Lammermoor - Donizetti (Italian)
Faust - Gounod
Opera (Post-1850ish)
A Puccini Opera (pick a plot that sounds good, my rec: La fanciulla del West)
A Verdi Opera (pick a plot that sounds good, my rec: Macbeth)
A Wagner opera (My rec: The entire Ring Cycle, or just Siegfried)
Salome - Strauss (German)
Modern (early)
Lulu - Berg (German)
Pelleas et Melisande - Debussy (French)
Bluebeard's Castle (Hungarian)
Oedipus Rex - Stravinsky (Latin)
Modern (later) (this is just bonus points)
John Adams - Nixon in China (English)
Phillip Glass - Einstein on the Beach (math)
Peter Maxwell Davies - 9 Songs for a mad king (English)
Close calls that didn't make the list in roughly chronological order:
Dido and Aeneas (Purcell), Orfeo ed Euridice (Gluck), The Marriage of Figaro (Mozart), Don Giovanni (Mozart), William Tell (Rossini), The Barber of Seville (Rossini), Pagliacci (Leoncavallo), The Elixir of Love (Donizetti), Carmen (Bizet), The Pearl Fishers (Bizet), pretty much any other opera by Verdi, Pucinni or Wagner, Ein Deutsches Requiem (Brahms) and Verdi's Requiem (which are technically not operas, but still considered operatic works), Der Fledermaus (J Strauss II), Elektra (R Strauss), BORIS GODUNOV (Mussorgsky, highly recommended), The Snow Maiden (Rimsky-Korsakov), The Nose (Shostakovich), The Rake's Progress (Stravinsky), Moses und Aaron (Schoenberg), Wozzeck (Berg) Le Grand Macabre (Ligeti), Doctor Atomic (Adams)
These are just a few essentials I can name off the top of my head. The operatic repertoire is YUUUUGE, so to speak.
>>1015973
>ballet
There's a balletfag who will hopefully come back. I don't know too much, but what I think of essential ballet are basically the pieces originally choreographed by one of: Petipa, Njinski, Diaghilev, or Balanchine.
>>1015973
I'll take a crack at some essential ballet. If someone wants some recommendations for specific productions for any of these, just let me know!
>Fairy Tales
The Sleeping Beauty
Cinderella
The Little Mermaid (Neumeier)
>Tragic Romances
Giselle
La Sylphide
Swan Lake
Onegin
>Literature/Classic Adaptations
Romeo and Juliet
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Peter Pan (Milwaukee Ballet)
Madama Butterfly (Stanton Welch)
The Nutcracker
>I Don't Know What to Call These
Firebird
Coppélia
>Unusual/Bizarre (ok, not really essential, just recommendations)
The Lesson
The Green Table: Danse Macabre in Eight Scenes
La Sonnambula/The Sleepwalker
Dracula
Anastasia (Macmillan, 1 act version is best)
Edward Scissorhands (Matthew Bourne)
>>1011687
I believe it is. It's a very physically-taxing performance art, and I think it is truly unfortunate that it is so under-recognized as it is.
>>1016714
As an art, I mean. Professional Wrestling is certainly popular, but it's seen by many as puerile entertainment.
>>1016703
>The Little Mermaid
What an awesome subject for ballet. Is there a good video of it on the Youtubes?
TFW all art is a manifestation of the cultural logic of the power elite.
>>1016735
Unfortunately not. It was professionally filmed and is available on DVD or streaming for slightly cheaper. I prefer the DVD because of the special features which has interviews with the core cast members and provides more insight into the story (like I would have never gotten Hans Christian Anderson's role if I hadn't watched those special features)
there is a trailer for the dvd but it's not much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k27lDDj07Z4
speaking of ballet, does anyone else have an inherent dislike for modern tutus? I miss stuff like this being the norm. I get why the designs changed but yech.
>>1010432
>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
Some merits, 21th century's is also good, if you look at the right soundcloud
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
hmmm....
we did some, mixed old and the new... please goggle "matah ati solo" and tell me what you think
>Does so-called "performance art" have a place among the traditional performing arts?
well, when you are pooping on stage then well, i'd rather be not paying money.
>>1019215
I agree thoroughly. imo the more modern tutus are comic looking, if only because of how they're used in popular media. I don't really like romantic tutus either but I find these slightly shorter streamlined variants pleasing.
I think that costume should try not to distort line and figure at all, but I understand with older ballet there were different aesthetic values.
>>1010432
Not exactly my favourite, but one of the more unique used of ballet was that the fucking Chinese recreated the Communist Perspective of the Chinese Civil War in Song and Ballet.
Titled "The East is Red." You can watch the whole thing here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQaK3tL6qIE
Not even the Soviets are this communist.
pro wrestling is the greatest modern performance art.
>>1019293
>matah ati solo
Could you tell me more about what I'm watching? Is this Indonesian classical music?
>>1019333
Oh my god, thank you for linking this. I found this late one night on YouTube, and could not for the life of me find it again. Thanks for the painting, too. I'd buy a print of that t b h.
>>1019327
I think your image is really the best of both worlds. It doesn't look silly like 'pancake' style tutus, which honestly pull me out of narrative ballet because of their appearance. But they're not so long that they cut off the knees, and in motion they flow perfectly.
Speaking of your pic related, I was so shocked by the costumes in the new ABT Sleeping Beauty because god damn, they were sumptuous. They were mostly based on the Léon Bakst designs for the infamous Ballets Russes production in the 20s.
>>1019418
Yeah, I really liked those costumes. They even look like they might look good up close. The only problem I had was with the Bluebird. He looked like a giant blueberry.
>>1019442
>>1019442
They are really really beautiful up close.
I didn't mind the Bluebird costume personally. Thank god they restored Princess Florine as a human, at least.
is Rent good or just a meme?
>>1020179
It's good, but unpolished due to the writer dying and the creative team not wanting to alter his work even though that's what would have happened during normal previews.
though the older I get, the more I feel like Javert. Get a job, Mark and Roger.
>>1019352
Look for the part where They are Balleting a firefight. Comedy Gold.
There's also another one: The Red Detachment of Women. Which was based off an all-female Cadre Battalion during the Chinese Civil War.
It's pretty cringeworthy though its more ballet than "The East is Red."
>>1016481
Honestly I feel like Miss Siagon is the composers best work even better then Les Miserables
Speaking of China: has anyone else ever been duped into seeing Shen Yun?
It was the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced in my life. I had heard things here and there about it being propaganda for some cult religion but hooooly shit, I was not prepared.
If you've seen the commercials, those dances are pretty much the extent of the talent involved. And there are a lot of them. And they are all the same: women dressed in vaguely fantasy historical gowns with big flowing sleeves, usually holding something like a spinning fan or ribbons and of course, the twirling, twirling, twirling! There were maybe 2 dances which were interesting, one which involved drums and another that involved bowls, but that's about it.
But sprinkled in with the generic Vaguely Ancient Chinese Dresses there were multiple "dances" where they were telling really blatant propaganda stories about their religion. Some were about the religion being persecuted (which are true but then they continue with) which end in magical religious visions cowing the eeeeevil atheist red guards who stamped around like constipated apes until they quivered in fear from the magic of Falun Gong. I was sitting near some of the people that worked on the show and they were sobbing during these dances, it reminded me of those North Korean videos of people crying for Kim Jon Il. The final dance ended with someone holding a banner that said 'FALUN GONG IS THE REAL RELIGION' or something like that.
There were also two god awful songs, which I can only describe as legitimate torture. Screechy off key sopranos singing in Mandarin or Cantonese, with lyrics like: "Atheism is the devil's lie" "Homosexuality is an abomination unto mankind," "Mixing races is not natural"
>>1020249
Same here.
I don't care for most of the changes they made for the revival (softening Chris and Ellen, plus pointless lyrical changes) but I'm excited for if/when? they air the revival in theaters sometime in the near future.
>>1020381
After i saw the Manila recording with Lea I stopped caring about the revival since it didn't have Lea or the Engineer
>>1020454
It has Jon Jon Briones, though. And that's enough. He is a fucking gift.
https://youtu.be/J9bn42GDyKM?t=96
>>1020489
He's good but he's no Pryce
>>1010432
You know what I dislike. "MODERN REIIMAGINING" of Pre-Modern plays. Especially historicals.
There's a place and a way where such a juxtaposition works (i.e. Baz Luhrmann's Rome & Juliet. Though that is a movie. Still) but shitloads of theater productions use it so much that it loses meaning and just yells plain laziness instead of OMG RELEVANT JUXTAPOSITION TO MODERN ISSUES.
>>1020372
Who goes to those sort of spectacle ?
>>1020742
>He likes Romeo+Juliet
That's a 10/10 opinion, son.
>>1021008
From the audience when I went, it was mostly people who saw the gazillion trailers or posters or advertisements and believed it was a cultural dance show based on Chinese history. About 50% Chinese or Chinese-American people. The marketing for the show is really good at making you think it's one of those, well, cultural dance shows... but it's not.
>>1020742
Pretty much agree. It's why the current revival of The Crucible on Broadway is atrocious. The show is already a metaphor for modern issues, you don't need to set it in modern day.
>>1016244
Which is better classical or contemporary
I want to get into opera. What are good romantic plays that I should listen to? Something with emotion, with passion. Something that will bring tears to my eyes.
>>1022129
Cliche but, Madama Butterfly
>every time I listen to Un Bel Di, Vedremo
>h-he's not going to come back, Butterfly ;_;
>>1022202
Those are ballets, what I replied to were operas.
Ballets are all dancing, no singing or talking. Operas have singing and sometimes a little bit of ballet.
>>1022226
yep
>>1011287
Living in New York (or, really, like an hour upstate) is the dream. Nearly every major American cultural, intellectual, and artistic institution within a few square miles.
I do live near Los Angeles though, so I shouldn't complain.
Between these two and Shakespeare, how did it come to be that the English would dominate theater?
>>1022254
I can't imagine what it would be like to have access to theater and ballet and opera in such a substantial way. Makes me think of all the plays and musicals etc that have only made it to preview or off-Broadway stages, that I'll never see.
>>1022597
>tfw you'll never experience reperetory theater companies
>tfw you'll never live in the time when there was a new show to see every week
>>1022612
tragic tragic times.
On that note, god, I want more horror theater. And horror ballet. And horror opera.
>>1022528
This is a pretty interesting question. I'm not sure it's based on a true premise though. I think that there have been times when English has been less relevant (I really hate this word because of /int/) as a language of theater. In terms of straight plays, two eras I can think of are the 1890's-1910's, when German theater was going through a very important phase (and the Weimar Republic was the art center of Europe), and the 1920's when every artist and their mother lived in Paris (>muh symbolism). I don't know much about the history of stage plays, but certainly to say that English is a dominant language is just because you probably live in the Anglosphere and are mostly exposed to English things; and sometimes read translations of plays or go to performances of translations without realizing that they are translations (like if you happened to read A Doll's House in high school)
As for opera there was of course, the entire period from around 1650-1850 when all but a null set of opera was written in Italian, and that which wasn't was written in French or German (English language operas actually haven't been very popular at all except for a few in the last ~50 years). I think that there's an easy reason for this, people mostly wrote operas in Italian and French because that's the diction that most singers were familiar with at that time. I wouldn't say that English became a big language for opera until the second half of the 20th century.
In terms of light opera, English and French are probably the most prominent languages, but it's kind of a coin toss to whether or not you think G&S or Offenbach gets to steal the show, so I'm not sure that English dominates in this category either.
With musicals it seems like English is a big deal, but musicals are largely an English-speaking phenomena, aren't they?
>>1022702
And finally, Ballet has always been dominated mostly by Russians. I'm not sure why there are so many internationally acclaimed Ballets in America though. If anyone could clear that up for me, that'd be great.
>>1022597
What really pisses me off are hipsters who make a big deal about living in New York, have disposable income, but only go to shows that are local bands that could be copy/pasted from literally any other part of America. Like, why waste decent housing in New York when you would probably be happier with the arts scene in Austin?
(I dedicate this post to my brother)
>>1022714
Well Ballet has three schools French Italian and Russian with Russian being the most famous in modern history due to the masterful composers and great dancers they had in the 19-20th century
>>1022767
You're totally right. I'm such a ballet pleb.
>>1022777
Im not much my forte is Musical Theatre which to answer your question from earlier is mostly english in origin but there are recordings of shows in many different languages
>>1022702
While in terms of innovation you're right about those periods, but English works were no less popular.
Going back to G&S, you'll find that the Savoy had two operas of theirs in the 1890s as well as a whole slew of original works with more prominent performers. The 1920s also saw the now legendary season at the Prince's theater where you had great artists that had all trained with Gilbert at some point performing the Operas (with ones coming back to the London stage after almost forty years like Princess Ida and Ruddigore.)
This is the time my great grandparents told me about lovingly, though they experienced this magic on the Canadian tour.
>>1022863
Well, I'm sure they were just as popular in the Anglosphere, but I'm not really a scholar who could say whether or not G&S were popular outside of their language sphere. Foreign operas at that time were extremely popular in the USA though, I know that the Met regularly commissioned works from foreign composers, for example.
>ywn see the flop premier of La fanciulla del West
>ywn see the first spaghetti Western ever
What do you consider to be the best musical /his/?
>>1022254
>live in a shitty flyover state in a town of 25k rednecks
>closest town with any cultural relevance is 3.5hrs away
>friends and family are going to NYC to study / work
Just end my life, thank fuck I'm getting out of there
>>1023361
I'll just drop in a few of my favorites:
Sweeney Todd
Cabaret
Die Dreigroschenoper
Chicago
I find this really funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNP6_0vLuqY
I know it was meant as a parody but I love the falling feather effect for the Trockadero parody of the Dying Swan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQcMFLpmv7s
>>1027233
That's really funny, especially the way he forces his leg into position with his hands around 1:20.
It kind of sucks to think that he spend months learning pointe in order to do one or two dances that people just laugh at.
Can't let this thread die ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yImDO8CjG94
>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
stagnant but enjoyable. consistently 50 years behind the rest of the art world
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
i assume 'super modern' means contemporary but no. i can see why people wouldn't be into it if they're not enjoying the medium and just wanting to enjoy being part of a tradition. both are legit
>Does so-called "performance art" have a place among the traditional performing arts?
probably but the associations it has with the world of painting, sculpture, photography, etc are sufficient enough. i've never seen performance art i've enjoyed even though i like the conceptual artists of the 60s. the more 'avant-garde' theatre i've seen i've enjoyed though i think with barely any exceptions, even in a country and city where theatre really isn't as far along as it could be
So... anyone have a favorite chamber work?
I've always liked chamber music a lot more than orchestral works. Here's two of my longtime faves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiL2FF12QpA
(This recording is cool because it's a lot slower than the work is normally performed. I think it lets you hear the individual parts, when normally your hearing is limited to the mesh of sound made between the instruments. If you haven't heard a normal-speed recording of this work, I suggest the Guarneri Quartet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91VUJkOzbgM
(Really cool in that it has a lot of really musical uses of extended string technique (compare with Crumb's catalog pieces like Black Angels) but Gubaidulina is a pretty dense composer and she's not for everyone)
>>1027701
>stagnant but enjoyable.
What do you mean by this? Art music changed dramatically almost every decade during the course of the 20th Century.
>>1027486
>It kind of sucks to think that he spend months learning pointe in order to do one or two dances that people just laugh at.
Don't worry about it! Ballet Trockadero is a comic ballet company, the dancers are all classically trained and it's meant to be silly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSuXuGOkfQE
>>1027745
What is the difference between chamber music and orchestral works?
Is Papageno the most 4chan opera character?
>Basically a NEET, his employment status is entirely unclear and his work is probably just a hobby
>Beta to the point where he lets 3 women just stick a lock on his mouth
>Can't get a woman unless he uses a magical device
>Gets suicidal about becoming a foreveralone
>(in this setting) debates about what method of suicide is the best (like /r9k/)
>Has a box that will literally grant him happiness, but has to be bullied into using it by small children (just like every thread on /adv/)
>only wants male children (like /pol/)
PAPAGENO FOR KING OF /HIS/
>>1023987
>Cabaret
Revival or no?
>>1028446
Nah its great the way it was
>>1028383
Chamber music is art music that involves a small ensemble, usually 2-8 players, but there could be more. Chamber music is usually played by standard ensembles like string quartets: 2 violins, a viola and a cello; or wind quintets: a flute, an oboe, a clarinet, a french horn and a bassoon. However, you can really throw together any instrumentation you want, like violin, cello, alto flute, glockenspiel, A clarinet and trumpet (which is actually a very beautiful ensemble)
Orchestral music is basically music written for an orchestra. Orchestras vary in size between very small chamber or baroque orchestras that could involve as few as 16ish people, and very large symphony orchestras that could easily involve 150 or more people. There's nothing universal that defines an orchestra per se, but it almost always has a full string section (at least 2 violin sections, viola, cello, bass, sometimes harp, guitar or harpsichord) with more than one person per string part (so there would be at least 2 first violins, at least 2 second violins, at least 2 violas, and so on). If an orchestra only has strings, it's called a string orchestra. An orchestra can also have winds, brass and percussion (i.e., drums, cymbals, marimbas, etc.)
Here's a video that shows a very large orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuve8eKeqKA
Here's a video of a much smaller orchestra (with a cello soloist):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ddqqvsTvg
Here's a video of a piece written for three orchestras, all with different instrumentation (for funsies):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqvlrphkGAU
>>1028377
Oh no! This is too funny!
Is the whole company men?
Does anyone have any favorite musical moments, just small <30 sections of music?
Probably one of my favorites (just because it's a diamond in the rough) is that really brief chorale-style wind writing with the bass clarinet starting at 1:15 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUB4OntmUPg
I honestly don't know why I like it so much, and I don't even know what happens in the ballet at this point, but during my extremely brief stint as a gigging cellist, it was the only thing that kept me going back into the pit for that nightmarish hour and a half of pure fortissimo trumpet calls that we like to call "The Nutcracker."
>>1010432
Is film an art or an industry?
If it's both who on set should be an artist and who should be an industrialist?
>>1028558
https://youtu.be/-izKsyVVDuE?list=PL8f_ACV3dM08n8OUsPLwpDJQ94Gd77DTf&t=191
The 10 seconds where this video starts is probably my favorite part of Les Mis, the music sounds so beautiful with his voice an I wish they did more with this swell
>>1028572
Its honestly both and the Director, Cinematographer, Actors, costumers, and props should be the artists with the rest being industrialists
>>1028577
Part of me is glad they don't use that type of swell too much, it becomes a bit tedious. As it is it's a beautiful moment that stands out.
And piggybacking off yours:
https://youtu.be/xnyRVZmgPo0?list=PL8f_ACV3dM08n8OUsPLwpDJQ94Gd77DTf&t=42
:40 through 1:14, every time.
>>1028599
The soldier does a great job real stand out work there
>>1028572
I wrote a post, but it ended up barely really addressing your questions. Maybe you'll find it interesting:
Well, some types of film are considered fine art, for sure. I'm not really concerned about what is and isn't art, but I feel like what is and isn't fine art is cut and dry (e.g., Lemon=fine art. Dumb and Dumber 4=/=fine art). Film is unique to the fine arts in that (art house) cinema is actually profitable, whereas the rest of the fine arts are essentially socialized industries (just look at how much money American orchestras and opera companies get in NEA grants). I guess this could cause issues for some people, but for me, I think that it doesn't. In socialized art, you have to make art that follows government rules (i.e., isn't pornography in the USA; is socialist realism in the USSR), whereas in an art that is industrialized you need to follow rules of profitability. I feel like this is in a sense less disingenuous than the socialized option because it allows for an intimate or direct connection directly between the performer and the audience/consumer. On the other hand, in socialized art, the performer/audience relationship is not direct, instead being filtered through a government proxy, and this has lead to a ton of things which are either bad or good depending on your opinion, socialist realism (and the response of non-conformist art) already being mentioned, but in the USA, large arts subsidies in the mid-20th century made art music super academic and totally uninterested in pandering to audiences consisting of everyday people, which has become a gigantic problem now that arts are getting defunded!
>>1028623
I guess the moral of my post is:
Industry art vs. non-industry (and thus subsidized) art is basically a choice between a work that was engineered, or a work that is academic.
>>1028446
I think the revival worked in 1993 and 1998 when it was legitimately something new and rather shocking in the simplistic way it portrayed that era and the rise of the Nazi ideology that followed as something present but not overbearing or really significant until the very end. It's seeping underneath through the whole show, like a disease, sometimes poking its head up at moments here and there but never fully present until the end. The final simple moment of the Emcee taking off his slick jacket with a smirk, almost a striptease, as the audience kind of giggles at his attitude, only to reveal a camp uniform and ending with a mangled body looking bow--done just right.
Now though, modern versions (with I suppose the recent revival which was more or less a reconstruction of the '98 Broadway revival, down to Alan Cumming) try to go way overboard with the Nazi imagery to the point where it's almost parody. I remember a regional production where the cast was gunned down by SS in the end, I've heard of versions where they have the characters walk into gas chambers, where they play like a mixtape of "Nazi Germany" sounds (hitler speeches, etc) and so on to various escalations... it's like damn, people. Cabaret takes place in 1931. We are supposed to know the fate of the characters, understand the implication of their actions, but you don't need to hit audiences over the head with NAZI NAZI NAZI.
What are some obscure shows that you want people to listen or watch?
For me its Paris which is a musical about the trojan war made by Jon English. The music is complex and honestly has some amazing songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgfC7e9UqTY&list=PLjmJ0uCpE8a8CqEMSrqwJcOMBaAP9_QdQ&index=8
>>1028558
Okay, I can't help myself, so I'm back with more musical moments:
From about 1:50 to 2:00 in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqyOhSpgCrU
I love this part of the Ring so much. Mime is such a good opera character. He's so hate-able, but you really end up pitying him because Siegfried and Alberich (like seriously, who gives up their ability to love because they can still rape people?) are such dicks.
This second one is another wind chorale, it's probably the most famous section of the Berg violin concerto, but it's really blink-and-you'll-miss-it and quite frankly absolutely genius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow5u41dAy90
>>1028599
Agreed about the swell, they also do this in Miss Saigon which sounds beautiful
https://youtu.be/6xiCSntUOj8?list=PL527AE24E951AA09C&t=165
>>1028648
>/pol/ does Broadway
>>1028682
idk how obscure this is, but I always watch La Voix Humaine after a breakup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BwbIVd8TXs
>>1028712
Huh? That's like the opposite of /pol/.
>>1028702
Speaking of that, the Sun and Moon reprise in Miss Saigon is so lovely. One long night time has gone...
>>1010432
I find it interesting how the Performing Arts influenced Early Film in the east and west.
The first Films in both regions (sans shitty American productions) were literally stage plays for film. Shit like Chinese Opera or Georges Melies in Film.
Also the backgrounds of actors in early film. In the west, they were theater actors while in China and Japan, they were circus performers. It is ridiculous how the Chinese pioneered some stunt methods thanks to the background of their actors: like reverse takes of actors jumping from a high platform to simulate heroes jumping high to clear off a wall.
Not to mention having the first female action stars anywhere. Pic related.
>>1028811
>Unlimited Poweeer.jpg
>>1028648
>>1028446
I agree with this essentially, the staging worked in the 90s to better represent the current day problems then, but overall the traditional staging found in the 60s and 80s revival are better fit for a more timeless show, since they are more liable to take history into account.
And if we're talking purely cast albums: The 1968 London Cast is probably the best recording of Cabaret in my opinion, with Barry Dennen as the Emcee and Judi Dench as Sally Bowles. It unfortunately lacks Lotte Lenya, but it has more songs and soul than the original Broadway album while still preserving the original orchestration compared to the 1998 album. (Also Barry Dennen can do character singing a lot better than Alan Cumming imo, and gives a better account than Joel Grey did in either of his recordings of the role.)
Also; Have some Bootlegs
Here is a Cabaret performance from the 1987 revival with Joel Grey as the Emcee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNGeN41ycNw
And here's a recording of Sweeney Todd on opening night from the soundboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pA6VgiLgo
>>1016742
TFW this statement, while true, hinges on the fact that reactions-to "cultural logic of the power elite" can be semantically cast as manifestations-of, as well, and that being a manifestation of the cultural logic of the power elite does not necessarily preclude support of the cultural logic of the power elite.
>>1028589
Forgot the writer, friend.
Writers certainly engage in more documentation, changing of hands, and industrial-style teamwork but I still think they fundamentally count as artists since any real decisions they make about the content of the narrative is artistic in nature. Maybe also political, but still artistic.
>>1029575
I've never listened to the 1968 London cast, I'll give it a listen.
I love the revival recording for Cumming singing I Don't Care Much. I wish they hadn't cut that song, I'd love to hear Grey singing it even though it wouldn't really fit his version of the Emcee.
Sweet sweet soundboards! What would we do without them.
>>1030291
I think Joel Grey sings I dont care much in the bootleg I linked to. The 1987 revival is kind of a Cabaret Deluxe or XL to me, because it incorporates the songs made for the movie with all the numbers of the original production including Joel Grey on top of all that.
>>1030298
Oh wow, I thought the first time they added it back was the '93 London revival. It's at the beginning of the second part, for anyone interested.
Speaking of that song, here's Ciara Renee singing it at '54 Below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5FYyL7F_Kc
>>1030326
Yeah, the '93/98 revival was a lot more of a case of them taking things out of the show to try and make it cleaner and shorter.
Which speaks for how things have changed in the theater: In 1916 shows would have curtain raisers and curtain ends at the beginnings and ends of a piece to create a full evening's entertainment while in 2016 the intermission is shorter and they cut anything that might be too fun.
>>1032112
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEvECpumo4
>>1019215
Is that Bronislava? How come her bro was so awkward cute but she was so ugly.
And yes, pancake and platter tutus look ridiculous.
>>1019333
Have you seen The Red Poppy? I found it terribly boring, but it's got this awesome piece of music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tBz8Z8Vrk
>>1032465
Yep. She had a very odd lower jaw, always makes her look pouty but not in a cute way, more like a chewing cud way.
Speaking of... her role in the '21 The Sleeping Princess ballet is called the Humming Bird Fairy. Does anyone know if that is the equivalent of Canary or Violente in a modern production? The little antennas were used for Violente in the Ratmansky version.
>Ballerinas can't jump as high but have better fundamentals
>more interesting to watch
You're killing me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnoJO2KxxvA
Who are the best male dancers? What are the best variations/pieces for men?
>>1032796
>>Ballerinas can't jump as high but have better fundamentals
>>more interesting to watch
>You're killing me
What?
>>1032896
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7tkK-1-fFM
Musicals are garbage and are not real plays. Theatre could be a vehicle for great dramas about serious themes, which a bunch of loud assholes waving their hands and wearing obnoxious bullshit =/=.
>>1032983
Nice opinion! Can I quote it on my blog?
>>1032796
I really enjoyed Connor Walsh from the Houston Ballet as Albrecht. His performance was so intense (huge jumps, over and over, lots of crazy cross legwork) that I thought he might really collapse during the second Act "Giselle is kinda trying to murder him but also not" pas de deux.
You can see a bit of him here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X9bbC4nNbo
>faggot tier liberal arts shit.
and that's saying something.
>>1033297
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8NCzqIK0_Y
Go back to your map drawing general cocksucking thread, shitlord.
>>1033297
(You)
>>1032983
>implying musicals can't be about serious themes
>thinking you, a clown, are the arbiter of what is and isn't serious
You need to see more than a highschool production of RENT or fucking Lion King before your opinion on musicals matters.
Evolution of Pointe Work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=510WnZQUgac
Anyone planning on seeing Marin Mazzie in The King and I?
>>1035396
That whole series is great
>>1010432
>20th Century music.... What's your opinion?
There's real merit in much of it, though it can be dominated by memery, especially after the '70s.
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
In general, yes.
>>1014030
>Anastasia
>Hunchback of Notre Dame
>taking a property associated with a family film and making it too dark for general audiences
Dude, like, wat? The fact that either of those things were made into 'family films' in the first place is strange as hell.
>>1016244
The Sailor Moon musicals are better than all of those.
>>1020372
Wow, ok, I'd never heard much of anything about it.
>>1022702
>A Doll's House
Ok, what good performances of this are there, in any language? What I've come across have mostly been dreadful dramatic/feminist interpretations that tend to pose the dialog and conversation in either one-sided and overacted or otherwise just dry ways.
Tannhauser
The Ring Cycle
>>1037634
That doesnt change the fact that a stage show based on the animated family friendly properties will invariably be connected to them, leading to many parents (aka prime target ticket buyers) to feel shocked at the darker elements.
>>1037637
Am I the only one that prefers the old musicals to the new ones? Yes the costumes are better and I can dig takarazuka style casting and there are some great moments (god it was good to see the Prince Demand arc without Sailor Moon being played by a 12 year old ) but the music is so bland and tuneless, and the choreography is barely there. They just aren't as strong, structurally and musically.
>>1010432
I wish the performance arts weren't so inaccessible.
Crappy seats at my country's major ballet company will set you back at least $50. An insane amount of money to spend on a few hours of entertainment. Opera performances are similar in cost.
It's all a plaything of the upper middle classes, something which makes me immensely sad.
>>1037732
>Am I the only one that prefers the old musicals to the new ones?
>the music is so bland and tuneless, and the choreography is barely there. They just aren't as strong, structurally and musically.
That's pretty much the standard opinion. I've yet to encounter anyone who would disagree with this or who actually prefers the recent musicals.
>>1037746
In my experience it's the people who didn't know about the musicals until Miss Dream released the newest one, watched La Reconqista, then watched the older ones and basically shat on them for the wigs/costumes.
I remember when the only Western access to the musicals were Ken Yuen's fansubs of varying quality (his miyuki moon translations, hooooo boy, makes Miss Dream look like a professional)and Setsuna Kou's retrospectively illegal but helpful VHS copy service.
Vienna production of Elisabeth is the best modern musical.
>>1037773
Sorry that doesn't sound like 1991 Miss Saigon
>>1037781
Why 1991?
>>1038900
That was the original Broadway cast
>>1039699
Why not London?
>>1037773
Is that the one they ended up filming? I didn't like the understudy they had for Rudolf on the filming day, but otherwise it's great.
>>1010432
>Are super modern stagings of opera cancer?
In a way, yes. Why do they need to advertise them as the original opera? Just say that you, the author, wanna make your own personal interpretation, don't just ride the fame of your predecessors just to pervert their works you spiteful little cunt.
>>1042222
???
Any staging of an opera is almost always the original music with the original libretto, just sometimes with modernized or modernist stagings and costume. The difference is mainly in direction, makeup, costume, lighting, stage design, ballet choreography, etc. So it really is the original work, just with a different appearance.
In stage work, those listed things are expected to be different performance to performance anyway, so it's not like the original work is perverted by not using exactly the same costumes worn in the original premiere.
Most composers and librettists had (and have) limited input into how operas were staged, it's mostly controversial with Wagner works, although the big people in modernist stagings were actually his grandchildren, which put most of those objections to bed.
What's /his/'s opinion of musicals? I find the overwhelming differences in the popularity of musicals to other forms of performing arts to be baffling. Is it just a more accesible form of theatre? Has it always been this way!
>>1042656
>In stage work, those listed things are expected to be different performance to performance anyway
This. One thing that is really worth pointing out is that sometimes it's necessary to change certain aspects of a performance. For example, what might look good on a skinny little soprano might not be... er... appropriate for a larger lady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6d8wacBjPQ
this some good shit
>>1042708
This is not the Joffrey reconstruction... what is it?
>>1042719
It's the 1987 Hodson reconstruction, so yes, it is. Not the full version of the ballet, if that's that's what you meant.
And here's a vintage article I just found: http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/25/arts/the-joffrey-ballet-restores-nijinsky-s-rite-of-spring.html?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=ls&utm_campaign=PPkX79/c*b0&utm_content=357585&utm_term=177&siteID=PPkX79_c.b0-GhEtt9ZZOG0tNYguSzJ2gA
