What does /his/ think about the true Third Rome?
I'd like lamb with tabouli, tomato, hummus and no cheese or onions
Do you do Gyros here?
You mean Russia?
Who was the second Rome?
>>1008356
Byzantium
You mean United States?
I think you meant to upload an image of Poland.
>>1008359
Byzantium is still first Rome.
>>1008382
The ERE is still the Roman Empire, but Byzantium is most definitely not Rome.
Byzantium is the second capital of the Empire.
>>1008372
>Poland
Even Russia I can understand, but Poland?
>>1008382
>First Rome
>Doesn't have Rome within its empire
Second Rome
>>1010632
Rome hadn't been the seat of power for hundreds of years when the WRE fell. Mediolanum had the Imperial Court.
>>1011385
It doesn't matter when the WRE fell, what matters is when the Emperor moved to Constantinople.
>>1010632
the fuck are you talking about? The capital was moved to Byzantium almost 100 years before the split. Did the ERE exist without the WRE?
I love the Ottoman Empire because it causes anal devastation on three continents
Niggers, slavshits, chinks, sandniggers, errybody
>>1011420
I'm guessing you misquoted.
>>1010632
t. fritz
>mfw America puts this shit-tier """empire""" to shame
They tried to save the white race from jewish religions and feminism
>>1011428
How the hell did the Ottomans upset East Asians?
>>1011420
Tetrarchy was established only in 286 AD, it wasn't even a century or close to that.
>>1007944
>Constantinople
>1683
Get on the camel, anons. We're going back!
>>1007944
>mfw current year
>mfw le Rome meme still hasn't died
>>1011893
>says mfw
>posts no face
>>1011356
there is no Xth rome
there was a roman empire
it ended for good with the 4th crusade
>>1007944
It's hilarious how eastern europeans (especially greeks) are still butthurt over it
>>1012273
eastern europeans are mainly butthurt about the USSR
>>1011428
so does ISIS
>>1012273
see this map?
It's the literacy rate 50 years (2 generations) after the turks fucked off.
Even today, when I venture south to travel amongst my past bretheren, their shithole status holds firm.
500 years of turkish rule really did a number on them, it's understandable they're butthurt.
>>1007944
The idea that was Rome was the construction, spread and preservation of civilisation.
The Turks did none of that, they just stole other people's shit and dragged everyone they occupied down.
The only true "third Rome" would be countries like Britain and France. These countries, to a greater or lesser degree, built, spread and preserved great civilisations, they were the envy of the world and their colonies today still want to live up to them, still using the resources they gave them (everything from language and law to political structure and bureaucracy to schools and railways), just like the successor states in western Europe have always tried to emulate Rome.
The difference is that nowadays, everyone in west Africa still speaks French, and English is the standard for communication in India and much of east Africa, with countries there still operating similarly to how they did under colonial rule. Turkish is not spoken anywhere outside of Turkey and a few -tiny- enclaves in the Balkans, and Turkish law and culture was completely purged from their conquered territories countries when the Ottomans collapsed.
Basically, when the Turks left, everyone rushed to be non-Turkish as fast as they could, when the Romans left, or the British and the French, everyone continued trying to live up to their example of what they were shown they could be.
>>1012683
I highly doubt if Rome existed in post 1500s the germanic nations he subjugated would emulate it. They would cry about the roman imperialism and would disassociate themselves as soon as possible.
The only reason they had sympathy for romewas due to time gap. A dacian in 3rd century, a Celt in 1st century BC or a Briton in 1st century AD would have little love for him.
Ottomans empire fault was existing in a time where ideology of nationalism was rampant. They also did not began to forced assimilation up until it was too late (late 19th century)
It seems to trigger Byza-boos
>>1012298
and so did rome, that was kinda normal back then
>force taxes
>if they refuse, fuck them up
>force taxes to their newly raped assholes
>>1012738
>Ottomans empire fault was existing in a time where ideology of nationalism was rampant.
this, and they were not christian, if ottomans did what they did and be christian, they would be loved to death in europe right now
>>1012738
They also didn't make any technological or cultural progress, ruined the economies of nations they conquered, presided over the Balkans at a time where the population, coincidentally, I'm sure, actually decreased year after year, and held back nations even more so than the Russian and Austrian Empires. Rome, and the other hand, introduced the light of civilization, sciences, architecture, and literacy to most of Spain, Gaul, Albion, Pannonia, etc... Face it, the Ottomans were nothing like Rome, they were just a curse on all of those they occupied, to the point where every nation they conquered is still felling the effects today.
>>1012514
>blaming the boogeyman
if germans could lost 2 world wars and still come up on top
if japs can get nuked 2 times and loses ww2 but still can come up on top
not to mention the yugoslav civil war that lasted 10 fuckign years
it was less than two decades ago
i think ottoman's 500 years of mostly stable rule was less of a problem than a recent 10 year civil war and authoritarian communism rule for nearly a century
not saying they were perfect, they were the standard imperialist power in their day but no its not understandable that they are still butthurt
pic related is from a croatian middle school textbook, basically infidel turks run away from the light of mary, if people keep teaching this and teach to blame their misery on turks ofc they will continue to be butthurt
>>1012791
one would wonder, being so barbaric, without technologies, archtiecture, illeterate, uncivilized beast
how could they be so successfull and survive for so many years...
or maybe what i hear is sound of the biased butthurt.
got nothing against them but they still seems to make some people buttpained after of hundred years they ceased to exist so they must be pretty dank
>>1007944
I think Rome is dead and that the musselman is naught but a barbarous brigand who should be shot on sight on account of his barbarism.
"I think Rome is dead and that the musselman is naught but a barbarous brigand who should be shot on sight on account of his barbarism"
>>1012843
>implying any "sons of ottoman" woman would be without hijab
they are all sexually frustrated wrapped headed retards, ottoman empire was a great civilization at its time but neo-ottomans are completely retarded
>>1012836
>>1012791
>other hand, introduced the light of civilization, sciences, architecture, and literacy to most of Spain, Gaul, Albion, Pannonia, etc... Face it, the Ottomans were nothing like Rome, they were just a curse on all of those they occupied, to the point where every nation they conquered is still felling the effects today.
Rome surely had one positive over ottomans, they were less obsessed about one city. Ottomans were Romans on steroids, all roads-wealth-anything flow into Constantinople.
However Rome was not considered to be "a bringer of civilization light and peace to savage barbarians" Even Roman authors accept it. Read Tacitus Agricola where a british chieft crticizes romans for "making places desert and calling it peace" mind you this was written by a roman in other words they knew what they were doing to people.
Ottoman empire just as Roman empire was a pro loot pro slavery society. Again it was merely luck that Roman Empire existed 2000 years ago where there were plenty of barbarians around.
Had they existed in 1500 you woul talk about how they taxed you heavily, enslaved your people and brought nothing that previous empires had not brought (given the fact people were already civilized by 1500)
I'm not saying Ottomans dindu nuffin, but you should also accept that a slavery-loot based empire would fare far better in 1st ad then 16th ad. Eastern Roman Empire would have been labeled as a boogeyman enslaving the pure germanics to the west.
>>1012836
>how could they be so successfull and survive for so many years.
Because they were not illterate civilized beasts? Ottomans had many influences from Roman-Persian and Arabic civilizaiton they also come up with their own original shit.
Occidentalism is retarded I'm not saying love your enemy but at least hate it with some form of rationality
>>1012901
>but you should also accept that a slavery-loot based empire would fare far better in 1st ad then 16th ad
it worked pretty well in 16th and 17th century actually, the nationalism cancer only started from 18th century i think
>>1012913
>second rome
stop this meme, the ERE was still the Roman Empire
if the whole empire had died in the 5th century (east & west) and then be resurrected I could understand this retarded claim, but since it didn't I don't
>>1012913
>They can't be called Second Rome if they are Christian.
lol, fair enough. I guess religion alone isn't the key. But the Ottomans were foreign conquerors who took over Roman territory, they can't really claim to be "the Third Rome" any more than Spain could have claimed to be "the Second Inca".
>>1012924
>>1012913
>>1012901
But in defense of People who Hate Ottomans, Ottoman Empire acted like an archaic empire of 1-4th century wihle living in early modern era.
Romans did had an advantage easy assmiliation. It is one thing to build baths-theaters etc to already hellenized east or to people who never see them before in north but it is a whole different thing to try to asimilate people who have hundreds of years of Christian etc culture. Maybe, just maybe had Rome existed in 15th century they would be more apathethic giving the cost-benefit of imposing your culture on others. That I don't know
anyways I have no intention to findmyself in a fight between t*rks and balkan folk so I'll shove myself out
>>1012913
The original shift to Christianity was made by a Roman Emperor, though. If Justinian or Heraclius or some other Emperor had formally ordered the Empire to convert to Islam, then maybe you could argue that the Ottomans were the 2nd/3rd Rome. But they didn't. And Islam was Rome's enemy right from the beginning anyway.
>>1012938
>Ottoman Empire acted like an archaic empire of 1-4th century wihle living in early modern era.
how so? their government system was pretty advanced during their time, and only went to shit when the jannisaries started getting too much power and rejected reform
The one thing I respect about the Ottoman Empire was its origins via Osman. The dude's whole life was like a campaign in MTW 2 or AOE 2 set in hard mode. His petty statelet grew from 400 horsemen to capturing the last vestiges of Byzantine cities in Anatolia and eventually a major power.
>>1013263
The Osmanlis were an accident of history. On paper, they shouldn't have amounted to much, but they had the good fortune to be bordering Byzantium and having a leader like Osman to integrate the disenfranchised Christian Greek peasants and soldiers to his Turkic followers.
>>1012957
>pretty advanced
>institutionalized fratricide and civil war as legitimate means of transferring power
pick one.
>>1012957
>In the Ottoman Empire a policy of judicial royal fratricide was introduced by Sultan Mehmet II whose grandfather Mehmet I had to fight a long and bloody civil war against his brothers (which brought the empire near to destruction) to take the throne. When a new Sultan ascended to the throne he would imprison all of his surviving brothers and kill them by strangulation with a silk cord as soon as he had produced his first male heir. The largest killing took place on the succession of Mehmet III when 19 of his brothers were killed and buried with their father. The aim was to prevent civil war. Reflecting public disapproval, his successor Ahmed I abandoned the practice, replacing it with life imprisonment in the Kafes, a section of the Ottoman palace.
>>1012275
They are butthurt about every empire that fucked them in the ass.
Be it Austria-Hungary, Russia, the USSR or the Ottomans.
>>1012812
Thats weird because mary is also holy for us muslims we call her mother meryem which is mary in arabic/persian.
>>1013793
It's not really weird, the Quran makes no secret of the fact that it's ripping off Christianity and Judaism
>>1013735
>19 of his brothers
Wouldn't the solution to this problem be "have fewer kids"? If you only have 4 or 5 sons, the odds of a civil war go down significantly because they're more likely to be satisfied with their positions
>>1007944
Stop this meme now.
>>1011905
I know that feel too anon. I fucking hate it when people do that.
>>1013799
Christianity is a rip-off in and of itself.
And Judaism is a rip-off, but at least it rips off multiple different things. Took a story from Gilgamesh for example.
>>1013263
look at Baibars of Mamluke
>born a pagan Kipchak in euroasian steppes
>beaten by Mongols, sold into slavery to Arabs
>becames a slave soldier for Arabs
>then ends up becoming the ruler of Egypt, frees all his fellow slave soldiers
>beats and permenantly stops the Mongols for the first time in history, who were once sold him into slavery
>pretty much purges much of the crusader kingdoms in middle east
dude was a badass
pic related, a mamluke nobleman, baibars probably lookes kinda liked him, sources say he was very tall, pale, blonde and had diffrent eye colours because one of his eyes had cataract
>>1013799
Quran= old+new testemant + muhammed's sex life
no im seirous quran talks about the women muhammed can take as wife and only muhammed can take more wifes than common man etc. etc.
>>1013735
Kafes was basically a super luxorious place where you can fuck any woman you want, eat anythign you want, do anything you want
but you can rarely leave it, and if you pregnate a woman they were killed because of fear of a civil war
Kafes literally means "cage", sometiems refered as "a golden cage"
>>1013883
Indo-Arian Paganism -> Zoroastrianism
(Mesopotamian + Jewish) Paganism + Zoroastrianism -> Judaism
Judaism + (Greek + Roman + German) Paganism -> Christianity
Judaism + Christianity + Zoroastrianism + Arab Paganism -> Islam
>>1012901
>Occidentalism is retarded I'm not saying love your enemy but at least hate it with some form of rationality
mate it was sarcasm, ofc it werent accidental they were so successful, they were advanced obviously
actally let me educate people who think ottomans didnt care about schoolars, arts and science
pic related is inside of a "medrese", basically a university of Ottomans, a close community of schoolars, students who were bright would be given to the retired schoolars in those medreses, be it poetry, science, military arts, architecture
the goverment would compansate all their expenses so they could pursue their interest, and ofc in return they would work for the empire
the brigthes of brightes ones would be sent to the royal palace school -enderun- and would be given exceptional education and many of them woul become a part of royal court and even marry princeses
and it didnt matter if you were a peasant, if you would be accepted if u met the criterias, a lot of devsirmes were part of those schools
but you had to be a muslim to take advantages of those privilages, christians were second-class citizens
The map on my original comment was drawn by piri-reis, that is the most accurate map ever drawn without modern means, he was an ottoman admiral, he probbaly had his education in a medresei tho he was executed for failing a military conflict lol.
btw, pic related is a Seljuk medrese, tho Ottomans are basically continuation of Seljuks, im posting that cuz the tiles look nice.
>>1013981
but quran has flying, talking donkey in it!
and muho flew to the moon and split it in half
true story!
>>1007944
*turd rome
>>1012514
>blaming ottomans for something that ended 200 years ago
lmao
>>1007944
>Roman empire
>Muslim empire
Pick one
>>1017656
>Roman Empire
>Christian Empire
Pick one.
Not even arguing for illegitimacy of the ERE, just pointing out that which desert religion they adopted has absolutely nothing to do with it.
>>1017761
Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire. Meanwhile, Islam was its enemy since the beginning
>>1018508
>Christianity was adopted by the Roman Empire. Meanwhile, Islam was its enemy since the beginning
retarded.
Islam didn't exist until centuries after the fall of the WRE.
>>1018537
He obviously meant since the beginning of Islam.
>>1018537
And why specify "WRE"? When Islam was founded and the Arab conquests began, the Roman Empire still existed, and Rome was still part of it.
>>1012275
> USSR
Terrified, not butthurt. And not Eastern Europeans as such: their government are.
>>1011428
That just shows you how shit it was in general.
Even empires held to be shit traditionally (like Russian or Austrian) still have a lot of people who will say something positive.
Not that case with OE. At best Muslims in Balkans love it (but that's because they were privileged class), and maybe "peaceful Middle East" and "they built some nice bridges".
That's literally it though. Besides Turks there is little or no support for it. Not even many Turks like it.
>>1018564
Who thinks the Austrian empire was shit besides Serbs acting like cockroaches
>>1007944
i'll take one with everything, put extra spicy sauce
>>1018574
Historians. It was basically a bit more refined Russian Empire.
>>1018581
Proofs
>>1018564
Turks are probably a bit mixed on the subject, since the Ottoman empire was obviously a cool bit of their history yet Ataturk hated the Ottomans
>>1018585
What proofs dude?
It was economic backwater, pretty feudal even in 19th century, had much internal instability and was comically bad at warfare at it's last period.
>>1018594
Maybe the Slavs should've germanized or maygarized
>>1018611
Maybe this board should be about discussion of history instead of being infested by 15 year old shitposting kids from /pol/ and /int/.
>>1018620
Listen Serbs were literally invited to live in habsburg domains. They should've asslimated
>>1018647
Why do you keep talking about Serbs, are you implying it collapsed because of Serbs? Serbs were barely 5% of population and plenty of Serbs served the Hapsburg dynasty.
It collapsed because it was feudal construct from bygone era, which somehow survived into an age of nationalism.
>>1018655
Serbs are just one example
>>1018664
Everyone except Germans was an ''example''.
Even in 1848 only reason minorities mostly stood by Hapsburgs is because Magyars were worse.
>>1018677
thats why your reward were our punishment
stay mad dumbos
>>1018677
Proofs. They controlled Croatia for years and i don't recall any major problems
>>1018688
Whatever man I'm not even sure what are you trying to say.
>stay mad
Only one mad here is you for some reason.
>>1018694
Most supported a reform of sorts which would turn the state into a loose federation. Some wanted a South Slavic state on the other hand. In the end even if reform occurred, it would still dissolve in the end.
WW1 happened however so it dissolved quicker.
It was an archaic entity.
In 1848 and 1849, however, the Hungarians were supported by most Slovaks, Germans,RusynsandHungarian Slovenes,[30][31][32]theHungarian Jews, and many[quantify]Polish, Austrian and Italian volunteers.[33]On 28 July 1849, the Hungarian Revolutionary Parliament proclaimed and enacted the first[34][35]laws on ethnic and minority rights in Europe, but these were overturned after the Russian and Austrian armies crushed the Hungarian Revolution.[36][37][38]Occasionally, the Austrian throne would overplay their hand in their tactics of divide and conquer in Hungary– with some quite unintended results. This happened in the case of the Slovaks who had begun the war as at least indifferent if not positively anti-Magyar, but came to support the Hungarian Government against the Dynasty.[39]But in another case, the Austrians' double-dealing brought some even more surprising new allies to the Hungarian cause during the war in 1849
>>1018508
And Christianity was the enemy of Rome at the beginning too until Christians managed to trick the Emperor into converting.
Religion has nothing to do with what makes Rome Roman.
>>1019915
>t. fedora pagan
Christianity was never brought by the sword in Rome, hell even Roman governors chose to become Christians themselves before Constantine embraced it. Not to mention that later on being Roman also meant being Christian
>>1019939
>hell even Roman governors chose to become Christians themselves before Constantine embraced it.
Because their wives cucked them into doing it.
>>1019939
>pagan
I don't need silly superstitions, thank you.
>Christianity was never brought by the sword in Rome, hell even Roman governors chose to become Christians themselves before Constantine embraced it.
Yeah, the soft conversion. The same way every leader in the developed world turned to the religion of SJWism and will probably end up turning to Islam in the end. They had a great example to follow, after all.
>Not to mention that later on being Roman also meant being Christian
And then it could have meant been Muslim. Religion has nothing to do with it. The reason the Ottoman Empire is not a legitimate successor or Rome is that it's a conqueror, not a successor. It has nothing to do with the fact that they were Muslims.
>>1012514
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