Ive practiced zazen sitting meditation for around 2 years.
I have read many books on the topic of meditation, including "Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy" as well as "Heart of buddhist meditation". I have also read several history books on buddhism, books written by monks, etc.
However, I have never hit a jhana (meditative state of pleasure). Occasionally I will come out of meditation with a totally refreshed and renewed mind, but I have never been absorbed in a state of intense pleasure and concentration.
Has anyone here ever hit a jhana? If so, how did you do it?
I actually had a neat thread about meditation a few months ago, I have it saved on my pc, but we never went into detail on the actual practice of meditation. I will upload the thread if people are interested and I can find a way.
>>1005270
Isn't the point the refreshment and clarity following meditation? I'm no expert but I always assumed jhana was more of a placebo effect. Or even as some zen bros call it "chasing states."
Or maybe it's like ASMR and not everyone experiences it? I know I don't.
>>1005270
How good are you at coming back, form your thoughts, to your object of meditation?
Do you have what they call a nimita?
How still physically and mentally can you be?
Muh sitting and doing nothing isn't giving me endless orgasms... waaaaaaah.
u_u
>>1005599
This
Kek
These faggots actually think that everyone in Asia is a saiyan
>>1007419
you seem smart, tell me more about you
>>1005270
Sounds like you're actually trying to achieve something in an active process
It's not like that at all. It's all about letting go.
Does letting your piss go take any effort?
Neither does achieving jhana.
>>1005270
Are you practicing under a zen teacher?
>>1005270
What's your method? Won't get jhana's unless you're doing a concentration practice, open sitting won't get you there. If concentration, are you straining? How long can you hold unbroken concentration on your object?
>>1005270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt856_nRxQk
>>1005270
You don't need to meditate to experience jhana.
>>1008014
Ive met a few teachers but none of them have been real help to me. They are all the "do nothing, just sit around" kind. They could be trying to teach me a deeper message, but I am unsure.
>>1009621
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnYDrs2ykcI
>>1009614
try noting meditation, like mahasi
did it meditating like normal, didnt even know it was a thing yet, but it was a state of pure and guitless elation that lasted a few seconds and then went. I get them sometimes if i meditate long enough, but i dont meditate often at all, so cant tell you much more
>>1009614
vipassana mediation
>a book to become a yogi in vipassana
Pa Auk Sayadaw Knowing and Seeing 4th Ed 2010.pdf
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books13/Pa-Auk-Sayadaw_Knowing-and-Seeing-4th-Ed-2010.pdf
>This Burmese method puts forth the quality that is SATI [translated as mindfulness generally]: alertness/attention to whatever we perceive, plus a constant effort to recognize the five aggregates, learnt from the dhamma and remembering it, into every phenomenon. There are other qualities to have, such as effort [in walking or standing up], tranquillity, faith in the dhamma, wisdom [little insight, not the one of the five aggregates, but wisdom on being able to make headways], but the Burmese bet that the more SATI we have, the closer we are to nibanna. SATI does not need to be done a little, to be compensated by another quality if done too much, contrary to, for instance, samadhi [=concentration, generally gotten after samatha-tranquility of the mind and body] which needs to be balanced with effort. We can never ever do enough sati.
a general pdf more about overview on buddhism through this technique
http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/books/teaching_training.pdf
Explanation of the meditation on the spheres [kilesas], relevant for the most imginative contemplators, as well as the contemplation without signs (animitta-ceto-samadhi) which is the samadhi wherein the Tathagata enterred when he was ill. The animitta-ceto-samadhi is the contemplation that people call ''pure hindsight (vipassana)'' when they think in terms of the dichotomy ''samatha-vipassana''...
>>1011456
===A GOOD WEBSITE INSTRUCTING ON THE ''VIPASSANA MEDITATION'' WITH ILLUSTRATIONS AND VIDEOS OF EACH STEP.===
>What is Vipassana or Insight Meditation?
http://www.vipassanadhura.com/whatis.htm
http://vipassanadhura.com/howto.htm
with video of a duration of 50 minutes
http://vipassanadhura.com/mindfulness.html
>Vipassana (insight meditation) is the ultimate expression of Socrates' dictum, "know thyself." The Buddha discovered that the cause of suffering can actually be erased when we see our true nature. This is a radical insight. It means that our happiness does not depend on manipulating the external world. We only have to see ourselves clearly— a much easier proposition (but in the ultimate sense, knowing oneself with clarity reveals there is no permanent self, as the Buddha taught).
>Vipassana meditation is a rational method for purifying the mind of the mental factors that cause distress and pain. This simple technique does not invoke the help of a god, spirit or any other external power, but relies on our own efforts.
>Vipassana is an insight that cuts through conventional perception to perceive mind and matter as they actually are: impermanent, unsatisfactory, and impersonal. Insight meditation gradually purifies the mind, eliminating all forms of attachment. As attachment is cut away, desire and delusion are gradually diluted. The Buddha identified these two factors— desire and ignorance— as the roots of suffering. When they are finally removed, the mind will touch something permanent beyond the changing world. That "something" is the deathless, supramundane happiness, called "Nibbana" in Pali.
>>1011458
>Insight meditation is concerned with the present moment— with staying in the now to the most extreme degree possible. It consists of observing body (rupa) and mind (nama) with bare attention.
>The word "vipassana" has two parts. "Passana" means seeing, i.e., perceiving. The prefix "vi" has several meanings, one of which is "through." Vipassana-insight literally cuts through the curtain of delusion in the mind. "Vi" can also function as the English prefix "dis," suggesting discernment— a kind of seeing that perceives individual components separately. The idea of separation is relevant here, for insight works like a mental scalpel, differentiating conventional truth from ultimate reality. Lastly, "vi" can function as an intensive, in which case "vipassana" means intense, deep or powerful seeing. It is an immediate insight experienced before one's eyes, having nothing to do with reasoning or thinking.
Moment to Moment Mindfulness, A PICTORIAL MANUAL FOR MEDITATORS, Achan Sobin S. Namto
http://vipassanadhura.com/momenttomoment.htm
===HOW TO CONDUCT OURSELVEF DURING THE INTERVIEW AFTER A CONTEMPLATIVE CESSION===
Wayfaring: A Manual for Insight Meditation, by Bhikkhu Sobin S. Namto, Wheels No: 266 / 267
http://vipassanadhura.com/WayfaringGuideMeditators.html
>>1011747
I had it in a word doc and forgot to save it back in november. you posted it in either /his/ /x/ or /lit/
>>1011747
I am preparing the thing on pastebin
>>1009621
I'm going to say this with the best possible intentions but Jesus Christ you're a retard.
The whole cornerstone of Buddhist meditation is that if you actually try to go out and "look" for something, you're never going to find it, because "it" is a mental misconception of what it actually means to practice properly. There is no "state of mind" that you "train" towards, it's instead a process of radically letting go and allowing all phenomena to arise and pass without clinging.
When these Zen teachers say "do nothing, just sit around," then they actually fucking mean do nothing, just sit around. That's the deepest message you're going to get, because if you actually follow this practice to its logical conclusion, you'll instantly realise that these guys knew just what the fuck they were talking about.
Seriously, go back to them, spend more time speaking with them. If there initial responses frustrate you, it's for a good reason.
>>1005270
卍卍卍南无阿弥陀佛OP卐卐卐
You mustn't underestimate distractions.
And by distractions I don't mean a phone call or a family member interrupting your meditation (indeed, you don't need to sitting with your eyes closed to meditate in mindfulness -- each breath, each living moment in mindful meditation is the goal).
Distractions are the things in your life, the duties and pressures, the temptations that draw your focus and energy away from what you're trying to accomplish.
If you have the opportunity take time off, go to a retreat, to a safe place where nothing is asked of you but to meditate, whether it be for a weekend, a fortnight or a month.
卍卍卍随喜寺兄卐卐卐
>>1005270
are you searching for enlightened people .. on 4chan??
seriously?
>>1013112
Jhanas aren't enlightenment dude.
>>1013130
I know
How you call people that reach jhanas?
>>1013211
it depends if they do it in order to be awakened
>>1013211
I don't think there's a name for them. Probably just "accomplished practitioners."
>>1007775
this
>>1011852
thanks m8
you are a living buddha and saved me 100s dollars on classes and books
>>1005270
Thats easy bro, just take a hit from some really quality Nepali Ganja, and you'll be in Jhana in no time.
Unless there was another meditation thread, I think that was me.
You probably shouldn't be looking for anything when you meditate. Just be patient and maybe it will come eventually, but maybe not. It shouldn't matter.
>>1005270
I think I have experienced the type of sensation you are describing. It usually happens when I'm going to sleep and I lay down on my "bed". From what I can observe it started to happen as a consequence of my lifestyle changes.My diet, the minimalist lifestyle I started pursuing and the modification of certain harmful habits made me change my state of mind quite permanently. So now, whenever I start meditating I surpass concentration levels very quickly from when I used to. I also noticed a sensation that comes along with pleasure, it's like a vibration, similar to the one you get when you intonate the letter "m", but in silence.
Although I have no secret to share about it, I can definitely say that your lifestyle affects your meditation practices. Since I have so little to decompress , I can get to that state almost naturally, with no effort. I hope this helps a little.
It's sounds quite bizarre, It makes me believe that "energy" exists in a tangible way, but then I look at myself and I see my flesh and get disappointed.
>>1007707
I'm about to graduate from college and I watch a lot of anime
I probably participate in class more than you do
>>1011456
>>1011852
thank you for the guides, I will be saving this thread before it 404s so I can study it all.
>>1011151
k
>>1011472
cool! I will read it soon
>>1012252
fascinating. thanks
>>1012314
hey neet buddha
>>1013112
there are religious folk who browse this place that practice their religion harder than the average believer. This goes for every religion, christianity, buddhism, etc. You wouldnt expect it, but ive read some facinating things here on /his/ and /lit/.
>>1011472
fascinating read, this dude is living his final life.
>>1016755
>>cool! I will read it soon
I think that this guy says like ajhan brham says : try to put the breath in the foreground of your consciousness: the breath is so close to your face (or you chest) that other objects of consciousness will remain in the background.
Do not really label the breath as the breath, at least at the end, since it drains you more than anything else and when you note an object you think of the noting rather than of the object itself.
so be conscious of the breath, note the other objects which disrupt your consciousness of the breath (not the objects which does not disrupt anything (at least after a while, you can note everything if you want, at the beginning, it will make you good at noting, but the goal is not to note)), which means know what it is is (a sound, a thought, a pain by touch) without detailing, then come back to the breath.
When an object of consciousness disrupt you, really feel it (and its consequences (generally you have body irritations (from subtle mental irritations) following), then drop it as soon as it is gone.
the explicit goal is to know+accept what you are conscious of, then have a fewer thoughts, in making effort to lock on the breath, which will strengthen your consciousness of the breath, which will decrease the number of thoughts.
try to do it in formal sitting and not formal sitting
try to do long formal sitting, instead of plenty of small formal sitting
Ajahn brahm call ''knowing Mara'' this knowing of the disruption (then coming back to the breath to be always more appeased)
>>1011456
I'd like to add to this: Vipassana is taught in (free) centers all over. To really learn it, the first course must be a silent 10 day. I'd encourage anyone who's interested to check into it; i attended and am glad to have done so.
To achieve jhana, one must be cool.
Daily reminder not to fall for the dry-vipassana meme.
As for Jhana: it's achieved when you completely let go. Think of it as a profound state of relaxation, both mental and physical. Only when you are completely content with the present moment do jhanic factors arise. ("There is the case where a monk, secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana").
Think of a comfy moment like playing the Sims on a rainy afternoon or something. In that there is a sort of comfort. That comfort is always inside of you. You just need to slip into it when meditating; become entirely content with the present moment.
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/81617
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1545975
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5666656
Here's some stuff on from the Dharmaoverground on how relaxation relates to meditation.
Apart from relaxation, what also kick-started my practice was continuous repetition of a mantra through out the whole day. It keeps your mind in check. Suppose you were to meditate for one hour a day, there's 15 hours a day left where your mind goes about business as usual trying to unravel your progress.
https://essenceofbuddhism.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/how-to-meditate-using-a-meditation-object-ajahn-maha-boowa-thai-buddhist-master-part-1/
Reaching Jhana really shouldn't take too long. It's an extremely simply, but extremely profound practice.
>>1019348
>Daily reminder not to fall for the dry-vipassana meme.
I do not understand how dry vipassana leads to enlightenment. is it meant to get you up to aharantship?
>>1019348
it is a smart to force the tension in some muscle then relax. I always wait to discover the tension and then relax. Some tensions come again a few minutes later: this tension is around the eyes, as if I force to follow the breath. I ti really sucks and always come back..
>>1019542
Meditating lying down?
You're just asking to fall asleep...
>>1019542
Meditating while lying down, especially in combination with relaxation practices, can be pretty nice, but it's also extremely easy to fall asleep.
Other than that it's pretty much the same.
>>1019528
The whole 'is dry-vipassana legit' question is beyond the scope of this thread, but what I can tell you is that dhyana is at the core of original Buddhist practice. This becomes clear when reading the suttas and pretty much every scholar that does research into early Buddhism (Bronkhorst et al.) agrees with that.
Dry-vipassana has some historical roots, but I wouldn't fuck with it. Jhana practice has more profound results, and has them quicker.
I keep my eyes open while lying down
>>1024212
Based Matthew brining the heat.
I am going to meditate. hoping to get 1st jhana.
>>1005270
I was almost kicked out of university because I spent the first two semesters meditating and going to a local buddhist centre.
One day, about six months into full hermit mode, I was reading a book when I felt my mind blossom. Something snapped into place, some kind of alignment for clarity.
I stayed awake in this state, effortlessly, for 38 hours. I had zero social anxiety, zero stress. I was purely happy, and had the full, easy smile of a child. It was like I had surfaced after being underwater. I meditated, talked to strangers, listened to music and generally savored what I was experiencing.
It is by far the most precious and memorable event of my life. It never happened again. I never tried to make it happen again.
I would not trade those two semesters for anything. But I can't go back to that. I can't sincerely meditate again for long stretches of time. Not yet.
I have spent the last five years preparing a self-employed lifestyle that I hope will allow me to maintain that state of mind. I'm ten months away from achieving this goal.
I've been depressed ever since I gave up meditating, first for school, and then for work. Meditating once per day, or once in a while, is simply not the same. I really do not want to go back to deep meditation only to be forced to stop again. It's heartbreaking.
>>1025522
Interesting story. It seems that some people just have a natural facility for meditation. I think I screwed up because I read far too many books about the subject instead of just sitting and meditating. I have spent a good deal of time trying to meditate the "right" way.
Over the last few days I have tried this >>1011472 method and I have to say that I have become more focused because of it. I will try it out for an extended period of time tomorrow.
it is good to here the success of others; it motivates me.
When I focus on the breath, I try to put it in the foreground, but at the end of the out-breath, there is nothing happening , so thoughts creep in easily. To counter this, I choose to unconscious of the body, until the in breath begins.
there is thus
-foreground = breath
-middle ground = body (which is still and relaxed)
-background = whatever remains and do not disrupt the first too
if something disrupt the first two grounds, then I am conscious of it,understand that it is a disruption and go back to the first two grounds.
At some point the body is relaxed and I do not wish to move it. I imagine that it will be the same with the breath. Once I would be still with respect to the breath, I would be too at ease to move mentally from it, which re-enforce the stillness.
>>1005520
the book is
The_Mind_Illuminated_A_Complete_Meditation_Guide_Integrating_Buddhist_Wisdom_and_Brain_Science_-_Yates,_Culadasa_John
>>1027679
How long do you sit for?
Try letting go, if you have yet to.
Also, have you read 'The Way of Zen' by Alan Watts?
>>1027891
>How long do you sit for?
30 minutes minimum.
>The Way of Zen
I have read a good portion of it. Personally Im not too fond of Alan's prose, it makes me fall asleep.
>>1027891
To add a bit more...
I myself have been practicing meditation for just over a year. When I began, I thought the 'goal' was to achieve a clear mind and to focus on the world as I perceive it through my perceptions.
Recently, I finished that book I mentioned (pic related), which changed my view on meditation entirely.
If one has an end-goal in mind when attempting to practice Zen/meditation, then one is missing the point. One must let go and Be.
Student of Zen: "What is Zen?"
Zen Master: "The sun is shining."
"to do is to be"
...this phrase motivates me to practice 'meditation' throughout my day.
>>1027902
Yeah, his writing is so...circular, which is almost in-line with his message. There's so much to Zen, and yet so little.
I found that when I started sitting the 19 minute mark is when I would finally settle into what I was doing, and accept it for what it was.
Have you ever had difficult feelings surface while sitting? If so, did you let them flow through you (continuing to sit), try and suppress them, or...?
Also, what is your 'goal' with meditation/sitting?
what is the difference between meditation and me closing my eyes for half an hour getting home after work. i'm serious.
>>1027942
meditation is active focus
>>1027937
>Have you ever had difficult feelings surface while sitting? If so, did you let them flow through you (continuing to sit), try and suppress them, or...?
If im having a bad day I often avoid meditating, it just makes my day worse because I am face to face with my problems.
>Also, what is your 'goal' with meditation/sitting?
"Zen, in my view, philosophy or mysticism. It is simply a practice of readjustment of nervous activity." - Katsuki Sekida.
>>1028041
>If im having a bad day I often avoid meditating, it just makes my day worse because I am face to face with my problems.
You're doing it wrong. The idea is to face the way your mind works and let that go. How can one grow if they don't face their personal downfalls?
>>1028041
>If im having a bad day I often avoid meditating, it just makes my day worse because I am face to face with my problems.
if anything, you must meditate even more if you are sad
>>1005270
because you're a whiteboy twat who thinks pretending to be asian makes him deep.
Hey OP, I've been meditating and practicing the dharma for a few years and I've experienced first jhana, possibly the second in one occasion. Some tips:
Continuity of practice is important, you have to do it every day and keep at it. If have the chance to practice with a group, do it, it is very encouraging. If you can do a retreat, definitely do it, it is very helpful, and I can personally vouch that there is a great difference between 30 minutes of meditation a day than 6 hours or more during a multiple day retreat.
You can't expect to make progress solely in one area without working on the other parts of the path. Read up on the eightfold path, on dharma and on other elements of the teaching. Maintain the five precepts, if you are doing morally questionable stuff and not being a good person, it is hard for the mind to calm. Also with drugs and alcohol (fifth precept). Also basic health stuff like be moderate in food intake, get enough sleep.
I found that reading the suttas is very helpful, the satipatthana sutta and anapanasati sutta are the closest thing we have to meditation instructions straight from the Buddha's mouth. Analayo's book called 'The satipatthana sutta, the direct path to liberation' is excellent.
Finally, I know this is not a popular thing to mention, but developing your faith (saddha) is important too. This is not a christian like faith, but a certain kind of trust that the teachings will have good effects and bring about change in your life. You do this by surrounding yourself with people who practice dharma, by filling your life with dharma instead of distracting thoughts and sensual pleasures, by focusing on the goal and learning about it from those who have gone before us. Most importantly you do it by practicing the path and noticing the results.
>>1005270
>Has anyone here ever hit a jhana? If so, how did you do it?
Yeah, when I was a kid and meditated a lot.
I used to just focus on breathing, and from there just let go of the focus.
>>1015278
>I probably participate in class more than you do
that's basically my entire life
>>1009135
>>1005270
Have you ordered yours yet?
>>1007775
>Does letting your piss go take any effort?
i-if i know p-people can hear the tinkle
I hit jhana today.
>>1028358
pics or GTFO
>>1011472
Holy shit. That dude has a good technique but he made me cringe going into his second post. He started talking about karate kid catching flies out of the air himself and remembering coming out of his mother's womb. Fucking retarded. Technique overall sounds good
>>1028382
let's just say Daniel Ingram is a special person and he makes some pretty out there claims (such as being an arhat, a perfectly enlightened being - even though he still lives a lay life and is married and presumably continues to enjoy the sense pleasures all that entails - he also claims to have supernormal powers).
In Traditional Buddhism, this kind of braggadocio is not accepted.
>>1027926
that is dope as shit
>>1029946
>I never thought of combining both vipassana and breath meditation into one.
But that's what Buddhist meditation is.
>>1030034
yeah but every scholar out there has a slanted opinion on which is the "best." I always read about how one scholar states that vipassana is what buddhism is all about, while another one states that jhana is more important. Its hard to filter through all of the bias. But when reading the suttas themselves, it is clear that both are equally important. "A swift pair of messengers."
>>1030046
And it makes far more sense when I practice them back and forth, one after the next. I gained a lot of insight from this thread.
>>1030046
Yeah it's true that you might get contradictory explanations depending on where you look. I'm really grateful to bhikku Sujato for History of Mindfulness, it cleared up a lot of questions about this divide that arose after I had realized that the practice must be an integration of both. Now if someone produced a similar work that did the same amount of clearing up for Pure Land practice within the scope of the entirety of Buddhism...
>>1005270
>Ive practiced zazen sitting meditation
Stop practising.
p.s.: We have enough stone buddhas.
>>1030104
hey, I have that book on my pc. I should read it.
>>1019528
>is it meant to get you up to aharantship?
Arahantship is enlightenment and vice-versa.
Read "A History of Mindfulness" for some deep research on "dry vipassana" and jhana.
>>1024212
Pretty good replies at the end, but why would anyone take any claims to arahantship seriously and theorycraft about attainments in the first place? There's a reason why monks are forbidden from claiming anything about these.
I think you guys are making complicated what is simple. Some of you seem to be approaching it as scholars, or scientists. There is one method.
>>1010262
I enjoy gay bdsm as much as the next man, but what does this have to do with buddha nature?
When I meditate with the breath, I feel either tired or excited and in the end, I do not meditate. I hate this.
I am going to try again now.
>>1030217
The Buddha is no Christ
>>1030146
>>1030146
easy for you to say but there is a bewildering number of buddhist texts, schools and practices out there. We don't live in 2400 bc during the Buddha's dispensation, so applying rational scholarly analysis to the texts and traditions we have now is the best way to find out what the Buddha's true teaching was
>>1030104
I'd say that Bhikkhu Sujato, Analayo, Bodhi and Thanissaro are some of the best Buddhists writing in english at the moment. Serious scholarship, serious dharma, no bullshit and no watering down of dharma.
