>The question we now have to ask technologically is if it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there is no key, there is no door at all, then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? What mechanisms do we have available to do even simple things like tax enforcement? If, in fact, you can’t crack that all, if the government can’t get in, then everybody is walking around with a Swiss bank account in their pocket. There has to be some concession to the need to be able to get into that information somehow.
>My conclusion so far is that you cannot take an absolutist view on this. If your argument is strong encryption no matter what, and we can and should create black boxes, that, I think, does not strike the kind of balance we have lived with for 200, 300 years, and it’s fetishizing our phones above every other value. And that can’t be the right answer.
-President Obama, one week ago at SXSW
We all know that the whole Apple vs FBI thing isn't about terrorism. The U.S. government wants to be able to force companies to undermine the security of their products, and they're using the population's fear of being blown up by brown people to get what they want. Once they have this legal precedent, they'll argue that it means that they have have the legal authority to require back doors in anything, including hardware back doors.
If it were not for hardware back doors, I would think that FOSS software would be unaffected, due to the fact that requiring the maintainer of any project to undermine its quality would result in a mass exodus to a fork with the anti-features removed. With hardware, the solution is not as clear. Would there be anything that anyone could do in this situation to maintain their security, short of simply never buying new hardware again?
Even if you can manage to keep your own machines secure, would the prospect of living in a country where the government has access to all of the data stored by every bank, doctor, therapist, etc, no matter how rigorously they tried to protect the privacy and security of their customers and patients, make anyone here consider leaving the U.S.?
I am assuming that there would be some manufacturers with the sense to resist, who would be unable to do business in the U.S. as a result of legal fines or outright bans, and that the rest of the world wouldn't have it as bad where hardware is concerned. There are certain cases where this might not be the case, though. There are only two manufacturers of x86 CPUs and they are both American. Would they make special products for the domestic market, or sell insecure products world wide?
Obama is just regurgitating bullshit, but it shows that the FBI doesn't want you to be able to hide data anywhere and would probably cream their workpants if they could find a way to extract info directly from people's brains. (In before tinfoil hats, they would strap you down and saw you open if they had to)
>>53563939
There's quite a few patents out there on mind reading, shit's ogre, though that's stepping on muh tinfoil paranoid schizophrenia
>>53563888
OP, in short, this will never happen. People rely on encryption capabilities since before the US existed. Politicians have to do politician stuff and make everybody scared of their shadow is one of their favorite ways to get everyone in line. Apple has really stepped up to the plate here recently. I realize that this is somewhat a marketing strategy, but from what I've read, I believe it is more than that. This CEO and his engineers seem to hold our constitution to heart. If more CEOs and engineers would follow, then we could get this government under control. They can do nothing without us. As an engineer (RF type), I will make a vow to you /g/. I will never intentionally produce a product that will allow the government to harm or spy on you. I will not remove encryption capabilities from products that I design. I believe in the founding fathers vision. "shall not be infringed".
The US government is evil. Is this somehow a surprise?
>>53564035
>it's completely normal goys! Who cares? Everyone already knew it anyway
If I call you on your sliding, will you shitpost more?
>>53564019
Thank you, based anonymous poster
>>53564035
>rule of law allows search warrants for everything
>now considered evil
top kek
>write something on a piece of paper
>bury it in my backyard
>refuse to divulge its location or that i even wrote anything
UH OH I just did uncrackable illegal encryption!!!!
>>53564203
Delete this.
>>53564203
>dig garden
>find thing
That's not even encryption you fucking nigger
>>53564203
the FBI has the resources to dig up every inch of your backyard in order to find your piece of paper
the FBI cannot crack your truecrypt container no matter how hard they bruteforce the password
>>53564203
>>53564220
>>53564233
Nitpicking. Fine.
>secretly write something on a paper
>bury it at a remote random crossroads
>disavow any knowledge of it
It's encryption.
If the U.S. government wanted combinations and key copies to every physical lock, from padlocks and deadbolts to safes and vaults, people would surely be outraged. People would see, whether or not they could articulate the thought clearly, that in a society where you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty you should be able to go to bed at night knowing that the things in your personal safe are actually safe, and that taking that away from you because you might commit a crime one day is antithetical to American values.
If the government opened and copied every single piece of mail that passed through any part of the U.S, and stored the copy in case they ever needed to investigate your activities, it would be seen as a civil rights violation and a violation of the U.S. constitution.
When exactly the same thing is done for communications and data storage, no one cares, even though the potential for security breaches and invasions of privacy is far greater. "I have nothing to hide", they say. Is it because people have such terrible computer literacy that they do not understand what is really happening? Do they have such a poor understanding of history that anyone who ever opposes the U.S. government is wrong? Is it because they are genuinely frightened of the U.S. governments current incarnation of the bogeyman? Some combination? Something else?
>>53564233
>the FBI cannot crack your truecrypt container no matter how hard they bruteforce the password
They probably could. It's just that devoting massive amounts of resources to things like that is insanely impractical.
>>53564257
That's not encryption. Encryption would be a cipher or something like that.
>>53564257
That's called a dead drop, not encryption, and if you're tracked you are fucked
>>53564263
Sorry, I forget that some people can't think abstractly or use metaphors.
>>53564220
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_time_pad
>destroy the key
UFBEdEFIHEJF FBI NEEDS ACCESS YOU TERRORIST
>>53564263
even if the fbi had found an exploit to break AES encryption, they're not going to waste it on some small time cp bust
The criminals who need encryption will find a way to use it, just like guns. This is just more terror against law-abiding citizens.
>>53564304
That's encryption you fucking nigger, can't you even read the first paragraph?
Also, OTP are impractical as fuck
>>53564233
>the FBI cannot crack your truecrypt container no matter how hard they bruteforce the password
except they can access it when it's unlocked.
anyway:
a judge can force you to disclose the password.
>>53564233
K E Y L O G G E R
E
L
O
G
G
E
R
>>53564328
not in the us, they can't
a contempt of court charge > whatever you're guilty of
>>53564307
They don't need an exploit. Bruteforcing your password would be a viable route. It would just require a supercomputer and a lot of time.
>>53564285
It's not really a metaphor. It's just a stupid comparison. If you buried a random bit of paper somewhere it would be inaccessible to everyone, including you. Encryption is more like a box with a nigh unbreakable lock.
>>53564328
>a judge can force you to disclose the password.
A judge can ORDER you. Just like they ordered Apple to put in a backdoor.
>>53564350
>They don't need an exploit. Bruteforcing your password would be a viable route. It would just require a supercomputer and a lot of time.
Do you even know what you're talking about?
>>53564211
Isn't the problem with the war on terror thatits purpose is really to incite terror? If it's being used to make people feel like they need to give things up to keep themselves safe, is that not itself terrorism?
>>53564359
why would the NSA shit in their own river?
they use AES encrypton, as does the us government
they backed it themselves
>>53564355
Do you? If you attempt to mount a TC container you will be asked for a password. This can be bruteforced if a computer is devoted to it.
The current FBI vs Apple shitfest is all about how the FBI wants to be able to bruteforce the passkey on the phone they have. Currently they cannot do this because the phone will nuke it's storage after 10 failed attempts.
>>53564345
>not in the us, they can't
bullshit.
5A doesn't prevent a bunch of other compelled incriminating actions, and compelled production of passwords may eventually survive 5A scrutiny at SCOTUS
>>53564297
Typical in that I wonder if people are going to start fleeing civil rights violations that the proles are oblivious to?
>>53564350
a real metaphor for encryption would be you burying the paper in your backyard and then magically scrambling ALL THE ATOMS in your backyard into a gray mush of matter that can be reconstituted back to it's original state, but only if you know the magic spell to undo it.
>>53564393
>Do you? If you attempt to mount a TC container you will be asked for a password. This can be bruteforced if a computer is devoted to it.
If it has a decent password, even using all the computers in the world to bruteforce it, the death of the universe would be happen before the password was bruteforced
>>53564379
see >>53564198
USG doesn't want any new powers, just that their existing powers based on rule of law still apply to new technology
>>53564474
If the government has a controversial interpretation of the law, it's not valid until the courts say it is. That's what Apple v FBI is all about. They obviously do not have the power to do this sort of thing right now, because we have all watched them try and fail.
>>53564509
>think
It's not an opinion, friend. Americans can move wherever the hell they want. And America doesn't turn all immigrants away, just brown ones.
>>53564631
>they want the power to publicly use that power in court
That's the power I'm talking about.
>>53564595
>>53564631
Which, by the way, is a symptom of the government fear mongering that I started this thread to rail against, so you can eat shit.
>>53564595
>controversial interpretation of the law
except that's not what the controversy is about.
it's pretty uncontroversial that courts can issue search warrants for everything you own.
FBI should have just asked for Apple's existing backdoor (their signing keys) instead of wanting a forensic ramdisk from Apple, which Apple spins as being forced to write a new backdoor.
>it's not valid until the courts say it is.
except FBI did get a a court order. Apple is appealing that order.
>>53564678
In North Korea, you can't even watch videos that were produced outside. This is where the US is headed if we continue down the path of our "dear leaders".
>>53564696
This is not a subpoena or a search warrant. The government is trying to use the All Writs Act of 1789 in an unprecedented manner to compel Apple to act against its own interest.
>>53564465
>If it has a decent password, even using all the computers in the world to bruteforce it, the death of the universe would be happen before the password was bruteforced
that's not true, no one has a 256-bit password and you don't bruteforce the 256-bit aes key directly, but the password, which will be way less.
>>53563888
>everybody is walking around with a Swiss bank account in their pocket.
He says this like it's a bad thing...fucking fascist.
>>53564474
>USG doesn't want any new powers
They want the ability to investigate without a warrant. That's a new fucking power.
Encryption can't be illegal, might as well ban language.
if I create my own numerical representation for the alphabet and start writing things down in my newly created number language no one can crack the cipher, because the key isn't public knowledge.
Encryption isn't just limited to digital information, and anyone who thinks people don't have the right to privacy needs to be hung for treason.
Part of the bill of rights is to protect us from corruption within our judical and government, if you remove the rights of people then nothing but terrorism will come from freedom fighters fighting tyranny.
>>53564696
>Apple is appealing that order.
Which they can do because it's based on a controversial interpretation of the law.
>>53564884
What the government wants is to be able to force companies to do arbitrary things the help them and hurt customers.
>>53564802
exactly, but if the court would have just asked for Apple's existing signing keys, Apple hardly has any defense.
FBI could then just hire some jailbreakers for like 1 week which write them their forensic ramdisk and be done.
>>53564933
>What the government wants is to be able to force companies to do arbitrary things the help them and hurt customers.
Including but not limited to investigations that are blatant constitutional violations.
>>53564933
>What the government wants is to be able to force companies to do arbitrary things the help them and hurt customers.
FYI CALEA already is the law
>encryption is "illegal"
>people switch to universal steganography
>nobody even knows what is what anymore
>sink.jpg
I realize this is purely anecdotal, >>53564434, but once, while working for a telecommunications hardware provider, I ran onto a DOD qualification document nixing a switch with chinese ethernet PHYs because, and i quote:
'hardware security backdoors would not be easily detectable, but could possibly allow remote code execution if properly placed'.
not a conspiracy theorist, but pretty sure intel was originally a company venture, if you get my drift.
>>53564430
Dude, no.
>write down word on a piece of paper
>burn the piece of paper
>remember the word
>hypnotize yourself to forget the word
>unhypnotize yourself to remember the word
>write the word down on a piece of paper again
>hide the paper under some dirt
>put some concrete on top of the dirt
>build a shopping mall on top of the dirt
>detonate a nuclear bomb on top of the mall
>evacuate the earth
>fold space to an unknown region in the universe
>buy a hot pocket
There, encrypted. Jesus.
>>53564937
I think they went this way instead of that way because if they won that battle they'd gain nothing but if they lost it they wouldn't be able to bully the next Lavabit out of existence. If they lose this battle they lose nothing but if they win it they are more powerful.
>>53565104
you need to leave
>>53563888
This is speech is yet another Obama's intellectual marvel. Immidiatelly opening with the need for causing strong emotional reaction - pedophilia. Then proceeding further to shit all over the ideas of the free world while the audience stares at him like a modern messiah who is upgrading and not downgrading the society.
>>53565013
CALEA applies only to telecom. If they are able to use the All Writs Act in this way, they will have expanded the power granted by CALEA to all electronics manufacturers, as the All Writs Act does not say anything about telecom.
Copy and pasted from Wikipedia:
>In court filings, Apple has argued that Congress has established guidelines for what is required of private entities in such circumstances in the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1992 (CALEA).[13] The DOJ has argued, both in October in Brooklyn and in filings on February 19, 2016, against Apple that CALEA does not apply to these cases, which involve "data at rest rather than in transit", an important distinction for determining whether CALEA applies, nor does it alter the authority granted the courts under the All Writs Act.
>>53563888
>If your argument is strong encryption no matter what, and we can and should create black boxes, that, I think, does not strike the kind of balance we have lived with for 200, 300 years
Except that ability has existed for that long. Various ciphers and simply using codewords have existed for thousands of years. What you see today is simply the ability of to encrypt things advancing with the abilities of those who would wish to break the encryption, like it has for thousands of years.
>>53564019
>RF engineer
Were you that guy on /out/?
>>53565137
>then how do we apprehend the child pornographer?
>How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot?
>What mechanisms do we have available to do even simple things like tax enforcement?
You'd better be afraid, Anon! Encryption will make these things LITERALLY impossible to detect and police! A terrorist is going to rape your kids in his tax shelter with LITERALLY no way to stop or prevent it!
>>53565252
>tfw FBI is too lazy and new to figure out traditional methods used for the past 100 years
>>53564019
spaghetti?
>>53565297
They don't need to prove that you're not just storing random data? They don't consider it possible that you've forgotten the key? You are legally obligated to remember they keys to the things you encrypt?
>>53565297
Australia police state.
>>53564867
>no one has a 256-bit password
do you even paranoia anon?
>>53565447
That is horrifying.
>>53565363
It's very vague.
They can order a specified person to provide any information or assistance that is reasonable and necessary to allow the officer to" access computer data that is "evidential material"
>>53565447
So Australia is off my list of possible places to live.
>>53565503
Can't be a Five Eyes country
Can't be the EU with their US data sharing deal
Can't be China or Russia
Where is safe
>>53565515
Third world. Actually as long as you're working for a western company you'll live like a king.
>>53565478
I would say that the use of the word IS implies that the cops have to have evidence that there is something illegal stored there, and that "reasonable" means that you could reasonably be expected to remember the key, for example if they have evidence that you used it recently.
If that's a valid interpretation, then the U.S. can do that too, and did it to Lavabit.
>>53564261
>If the government opened and copied every single piece of mail that passed through any part of the U.S, and stored the copy in case they ever needed to investigate your activities
They do that already, don't they? For email I mean?
>>53565515
>Can't be China or Russia
Russia is better than the US and China is better than Russia:
https://www.dlapiperdataprotection.com/index.html#handbook/world-map-section/c1_US/c2_RU
Brazil would be ideal, scientists move there to get around US laws regarding their research.
>>53564220
>guess the private key on a piece of encrypted data
OH WOW, guess like encryption isn't real anyways. am i right?
that's you. that's how dumb you sound.
>>53565515
Pretty sure that the only developed country you haven't eliminated is Japan. I don't know much about their politics.
All this crap with the shit internet rights in america sounds fucking horrible.
>no choice between ISPs
>and the only ISPs fuck you over with fucking astronomical prices. You pay 50 fucking dollars for less than 1/3rd of the cheapest romanian internet
>spying out of the wazoo
This country sounds worse and worse with time.
How long until Tor use is banned because pedos and others use it?
![img_52711-e1333741456914[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a4MHsDe.jpg "img_52711-e1333741456914[1].jpg")
>>53565515
India, my boy.
>>53563888
>>The question we now have to ask technologically is if it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there is no key, there is no door at all, then how do we apprehend the child pornographer?
By the testimony of the children he raped.
>How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot?
By not letting the terrorists into the country in the first place.
>What mechanisms do we have available to do even simple things like tax enforcement?
Have a single, simple tax. Income or national sales tax. The information can't be encrypted because it will be part of living and doing business. A bank will turn over a ledger if presented with a warrant.
>If, in fact, you can’t crack that all, if the government can’t get in, then everybody is walking around with a Swiss bank account in their pocket.
But that's not how banking works you imbecile of a president.
>There has to be some concession to the need to be able to get into that information somehow.
No, there does not. Further more: any decent programmer can implement strong encryption whether you like it or not. No law is going to change that.
>>My conclusion so far is that you cannot take an absolutist view on this.
Yes I can. Watch me.
>>53565704
One of the only countries I hate more than Mexico.
>>53563888
This is a ridiculous argument.
If Obama had practiced any law before he started teaching it he'd know courts both criminal and civil can compel suspects or witnesses to provide they key to their encrypted or locked away documents or evidence. Similar to making people open a safe or safety deposit box when it might contain evidence of tax evasion. Now if the suspect is capable of providing the keys and doesn't comply then they get locked away for contempt of court.
So yeah he's just butthurt he can't go through people's email and stuff without a warrant.
>>53564019
Hmmm...I'm thinking "shall not infringe" upon encryption should become part of FOSS license agreements.
>>53565252
In a tax shelter?
Fuck me let's just burn our Constitution!!!
If I write down a message on a piece of paper in a language that only I know, can a US court force me to translate the paper?
>>53565730
Yeah, but you will probably be able to to all kinds of things that would be illegal in the states.
I don't think that the police there cares much about online crimes. Besides, there are over 1 billion and 300 million hundred people. Even a shitty place like india has its' benefits.
>>53565781
I think the only way to know is to try.
>>53565749
Citation? I thought that a person could not be compelled to give up a password in the U.S.
I was under the impression that if you have a physical key, or the key is bio metric, then you can be compelled to turn it over or allow the bio metric scan to take place. But if it's a password in your head then you can't be forced to reveal it because of the 5th amendment.
>>53565783
>Yeah, but you will probably be able to to all kinds of things that would be illegal in the states.
So I could legally massacre Indian tech support?
>>53565799
The password is treated as a key. With a warrant you can be forced to turn it over.
>>53565807
as long as you do it stealthily
>>53565821
Not trying to be a dick, but again: citation? I recall reading (not on a forum) that the password can be treated as incriminating speech and covered by the 5th.
I seem to remember several articles about this when Apple introduced Touch ID. They all said the danger with Touch ID is that you can be compelled to touch the phone, but you cannot be compelled to speak (or write) a passcode.
>>53565826
It's not like India has video surveillance, this won't be a problem.
>>53565656
>the fact that you refuse to decrypt the data is reason enough for them to believe you're hiding something
This is definitely how cops think in the U.S, but luckily I don't think it holds up in court.
>>53565865
>I don't think it holds up in court.
It doesn't, doing that is the same as the cops demanding to search your car with no indication of anything illegal.
>>53565821
>>53565842
For example: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/features-issue-sections/11071/police-force-password-cellphone/
Based on this it seems to be up in the air, though the 11th circuit did side with defendants and the 5th:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_States
>>53563888
Encryption is useless when things like foxacid and other malware exist. There's your backdoor, now quit telling me I shouldn't use math.
>>53565799
>But if it's a password in your head then you can't be forced to reveal it because of the 5th amendment.
The fifth protects persons from being compelled to provide testimony to any agents of the government that may incriminate themselves. There is no protection from ordering a person to provide access to a place where evidence of a crime is known to have or has a reasonable possibility to exists. If it's a HDD with encryption, a locked shed or even a coat pocket it doesn't matter the format or medium.
If it incriminates the person or not is not a valid argument since it's evidence and not testimony.
>>53565877
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_States
Interesting info. There's no actual law regarding it but there are precedents that have been set. If the knowledge of wrongdoing was already present the person has to unlock the device. Otherwise they are in no way obligated to.
>>53565874
>having a car
>>53565921
Is having a car unusual outside the US?
>>53565874
Yeah, but pedophiles use encryption. You just can't make the same argument for my windowless van.
>>53565929
Plumbers use windowless vans. Cops aren't allowed to assume your van contains children unless they have other evidence suggesting it.
>>53565947
>search your car without indication of anything illegal, they do it all the time just because they can.
American cops try to do this, the key is knowing that they legally can't and then denying them access. If they proceed, you get a lawyer and have the case thrown out for misconduct.
>>53565945
I know. Sometimes I forget that irony doesn't work on the Internet.
>>53565620
In Japan the police can hold you for 10 days without charge and interrogate you and deprive you of sleep constantly in that time until you confess to crimes that you didn't commit.
>>53563888
In theory encryption is no different as compared to storing any other data, I don't see how they can legally implement this
>>53563939
>In before tinfoil hats,
not like its anything new.
mkultra and all that.
>>53565972
doesn't staying up for 10 days literally kill you?
>>53565972
Japan is literally run by the Yakuza.
>>53565979
Yes but our body has a defence mechanism against that by inducing microsleep episodes.
Still I imagine it would be very painful
>>53565877
Eh, I think if the courts have something more substantial than circumstantial evidence, they should be able to hold them in contempt of the court.
However, if they only lack an alibi, or if they only have an IP, they should require more substantial evidence for a warrant of this nature. (IPs are half-useless for determining who was where, just look at all the articles for retarded SWAT team raids that came from determining an IP)
Or in other words, the defendant or his lawyer should be given fair opportunity to dispute the order. If after due process, the defendant refuses, then they should be held in contempt for refusal.
>>53565979
You've never been around meth-heads have you? Consider yourself lucky, it only takes about 3 days without sleep before they won't shut up about weird shit like the cops hiding in the trees and it's only downhill from there. A lot of the crazies you see on the American news or Liveleak were probably somewhere on week 2+ of sleep deprivation.
>>53563888
that quote makes it sound like encryption is some magic that lets you do anything without being detected.
>>53563888
>everybody is walking around with a Swiss bank account in their pocket
Hahaha
Can't have poor people have swiss bank accounts too!
>>53565972
What about South Korea? It is also a developed country that is not EU, five eyes, or China & Russia. I would guess that it's worse than Japan in most ways, but I don't really know.
>>53566034
If I remember correctly, South Koreans pretty much hate anyone who isn't South Korean, even when they aren't in South Korea. Supposedly businesses run by people from South Korea will always favor other Koreans for promotions even if other candidates are better. From my understanding, expect to be treated like a black person in the South when Jim Crow laws were still a thing if you aren't Korean.
>>53566085
To be fair, that attitude is why the country is good and not swamped in niggers.
>>53566034
South Korea's going through it's own totalitarianism crisis right now: http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/01/04/460647346/civil-rights-at-issue-in-korea-but-not-the-korea-youd-expect
keep in mind that it was pretty much a US-backed military dictatorship until fairly recently and still hasn't fully embraced all of our democratic traditions
>>53564509
>>53564617
>>53564678
America doesn't turn any immigrants away, even illegal ones. That's the fucking problem.
White Americans can emigrate anywhere because they follow the laws and are a net gain for whatever country they enter.
>>53566085
>>53566119
Then it seems that non-Five Eyes E.U. is the least oppressive part of the developed world, even if it's not perfect. That's my second favorite part, anyway, after U.S./Canada. I am not seriously considering a move, but in this political climate it's nice to know what your options are.
>>53566206
What about one of the non-EU, non-warzone Eastern European countries, or maybe even one of the EU ones? I think VC ended up in Romania.
>>53566142
>America doesn't turn any immigrants away
lol bullshit. If they're already here we don't go to a lot of trouble to deport them, it's true. But why do you think people immigrate illegally? Do you think if every Mexican immigrant applied for an immigrant visa they would all be accepted? Nope. Canada, on the other hand, is a different story.
>>53564261
Can this be the new copy pasta on the subject?
>>53566220
Never been to Eastern Europe, but my general impression is that it's a pretty stark difference in terms of quality of life.
>>53564261
That's pretty good, anon.
Someone should spread this around the web (especially on american websites)
>>53566298
The last paragraph needs a bit of revision:
When exactly the same thing is done for electronic communications and data storage, no one cares, even though the potential for security breaches and privacy invasions is far greater. "I have nothing to hide", they say. Is it because people have such terrible computer literacy that they do not understand what is really happening? Do they have such a poor understanding of history that they think anyone who ever opposes the U.S. government must be wrong? Is it because they are genuinely frightened of the U.S. government's current incarnation of the bogeyman? Some combination? Something else?
>>53565104
Cancerous post.
>>53564261
That's sweet but the US government already x-rays all postal mail. Or rather, photos it all with various light wavelengths to see what is in it.
>>53566459
The do so in order to circumvent civil rights that people like to think they have.
>>53566459
Did this render the silk road unusable in the U.S? I never used it, but I was under the impression that it worked, and hence the problem. Can they read text? Surely X-Rays cannot sense ink? What happens if you mail something inside of a sealed, lead-lined container?
>>53565723
The "Swiss bank account" is storing your wealth in an electronic commodity (namely Bitcoin).
>>53564220
Wow u cabbagede'r
>>53566553
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-roman-scrolls-x-ray-vesuvius-20150120-story.html
They can, not that it would be economically feasible.
As a tax lawyer I'm pretty sure 95% of the criminal tax and pedo cases get solved by looking at bank transactions. And I have never seen a case where encryption was problematic to an extend the person couldnt be convicted.
>>53566844
At least, when we follow a digital trail.
>>53565647
The government uses a lot of Tor, and a lot of nodes are hosted in the U.S.
I don't see Tor being banned.
>>53565515
iceland
Trump will make matters even worse and I don't even hate the guy.
>>53563888
Obama doesnt know what he's talking about. You cannot NOT take an absolutist view in this. There is no nuance. Encryption is all or nothing. If it's not 100% you may as well not encrypt at all. And since our our society depends heavily on encrypted communication, it would be very unwise to fuck with that.
>>53566844
As a tax lawyer I'd be surprised if you saw anything as not boiling down to bank transactions.
But you are more or less on the right track- pedos and terrorists get caught by work on the ground. Children telling their teachers or showing signs of abuse, terrorists being grassed on by members of their community, stuff like that.
When the france terrorist attack happened it was revealed that the terrorists organised themselves by solely unencrypted communication.
And the reaction of politicians?
"We need to be able to break encryption to stop attacks like this"
Load of shit
>>53568740
I tend to not blame obama. Think about what obama's life is like. He's managing this, that, and then today he's like 'okay encryption? Good or bad'
He relied on advisers. These advisers are made from people who work in the FBI and NSA, or even worse, those that just simply get paid by various interests to feed the president a load of crap. Head of the NSA cries to obama: "We need to read people's email or there will be another 9/11"
And that's the information obama gets.
Which also means that no matter what president is in office, they'll all be anti-encryption.
>>53563888
Terrorist plans can be interrupted by going on Facebook and reading discussions there. At least the Paris attacks were planned there out in the open. And, at the end of the day, you do need to let your people speak, even if terrorism was the only way they knew.
With CP, your need to lower the demand instead of lowering the supply. That is possible assuming that pedophilia is a mental disorder. If it's not, then you're fighting against human nature and abound just give up and find a peaceful way to deal with the problem.
Previously you'd have to protect your private info from criminals and the like, nowadays you need to protect your private info from your government.
And god damn if Obama doesn't have one of those Swiss bank accounts. His personal problem is on the 'everyone' part, not on the 'Swiss bank account' part.
>>535664>>53566424
Do they come in any bigger???
Child porn and terrorism are the boogie men arguments that have been used to gain control over the populace for decades. If you want to try and get something passed by congress/parliament etc just throw in some scare tactic shit like that and it's a done deal. This is what the SJW world has led us to. BTW I was watching the movie 'Big' the other day. Tom Hanks is a 13 year old in a adults body. He gets laid in the movie in his adult body. That would never get past the scripting stage in today's society of fear mongering and moralfaggotry.
>>53565976
MKULTRA was mind control, not mind reading.
>>53568753
When pedos get caught online it's usually because they used their credit card to purchase cp.
But you also have kids with signs of abuse and pedos who print their pictures and so on yeah.
>>53564198
Nsa whole Internet harvesting and global spying is the rule of law?
>>53564198
>>53564474
4th says they have permission to search if they have a warrant it doesn't state that everyone is obligated to help them.
