I want to chat with people who say they are having a hard time finding work. Be it dev, ops or sysadmin. I want to hear about experiences they have had with interviews.
At the company I work for we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and still can't find enough people. Can anyone explain this to me?
Pic unrelated
>>55562446
All that matters is location anymore. Good programmers in "flyover country" can't get jobs, whereas shitty programmers in Silicon Valley bring everyone else down but have to be hired because there's no choice.
>>55562474
Our company, while based out of England, has a team we cannot fill based out of Minnesota.
bumping one last time to see if anyone has a perspective. I am curious. Does everyone here have a job?
>>55562446
I was out of work for 2.5 months about a year ago, I was looking for work as a system admin. I have a bachelors of science in IT, CCENT, experience administering Unix systems, systems integration and troubleshooting skills, Perl programming and SQL experience, great writing and communication skills, and I've been in the IT industry for approx. 14 years as various tech support lead, customer service rep, web developer, et cetera.
Anyway, I never found work as a system admin. Ended up in IT sales, which is fine since I enjoy working with the end user - that said, coworkers in my new job are far less qualified than I am and I feel I should be making more money.
>>55562591
Yes but not in IT/CS
>>55562446
hire me
>>55562938
You should be making more money. Are you able to learn on your own and figure out complex problems that you may have no experience in? Regardless of time, just if you are capable. Did you try a recruitment agency?
It seems like with your experience you should have been basically given a job. After an interview showing you can diagnose issues we would have given you a job.
Also, where do you live?
>>55563143
Tell me about your qualifications(less important) and tell me about times you've solved problems in your respective field. Something that you had difficulty solving.
>>55562446
I'm almost finished of my CS degree. Would it be easy for me to get a job if I'm willing to live literally anywhere?
I have no ties here, I'd be willing to pack up and go anywhere on earth. As long as there is food and internet, I will be happy. /g/ is making me paranoid that I won't be able to get a job and I'll become homeless
>>55563091
Which field are you in? Are you looking for IT/CS related jobs? At the very least I might be able to explain what we are looking for. If not, I would still like to hear about your experiences.
>>55563174
A CS degree on its own is basically worthless because they don't teach anything of any practical use. If you don't have a couple internships to pad your resume with, you are kinda fucked.
>>55562446
In my experience the people who can't find jobs fall into two groups. The first one is the kinds of people I mentioned above. They've got some kind of tech skills but are basically worthless because none of the skills they have are in demand.
The second group is people who are just bad a job searching. They'll do stuff like only apply to a couple big tech companies (Google, Apple, and Facebook for example) and when they don't get
>>55563174
Don't worry. What type of job are you looking for? If you are looking for designing CPUs then I think the market is a bit lacking. If you are looking for a general development/sysadmin type job there should be no lack of jobs.
Between sysadmin and developer, do you have a preference?
>>55563247
Accidentally hit send, continued:
The second group is people who are just bad a job searching. They'll do stuff like only apply to a couple big tech companies (Google, Apple, and Facebook for example) and when they don't get those, they just kinda give up instead of looking at other companies. A lot of these people refuse to work with a recruiter so it is almost impossible to get their resume into the right people's hands. Like OP said, lots of people are hiring, but finding those people is the trick.
>>55563247
I want to mostly agree with you except for a CS degree being worthless. Although, I am making a few assumptions. I would assume somebody who finishes that degree is capable to a certain extent. At the very least, it should get his foot in the door.
>>55563248
Yeah I was looking at more of a general kinda deal. I love working with Linux so I'm leaning toward sysadmin right now, but I could do development too
>>55563290
I was hoping this. I don't have any internships unfortunately but I do have some projects on github, that should be enough to get me an entry level job right? I'm not expecting to walk right into a 6 figure salary, just something to get me experience for a couple years
>>55563279
For sure. Maybe the problem is general job searching.
>>55563144
I didn't try a recruiter, maybe I should have. I applied to approx 60 different positions.
>where you live
Greater Seattle area.
>able to learn on your own and figure out complex problems with no experience
Yes, generally. I'm comfortable with software and hardware, mechanical things, electronics, etc.
I did a randomly-selected code challenge on the /g/ thread the other day. It took me about 3 hrs.#!/usr/bin/perl
# Syntax: ipcalc.pl <any valid IPv4 address> <netmask in CIDR format>
use strict;
use experimental 'bitwise';
my $ip_number = deconvolute($ARGV[0]);
my $mask_number = deconvolute_mask($ARGV[1]);
print "IP address: " . convolute(deconvolute($ARGV[0])) ."\n";
print "Netmask: " . convolute_mask(deconvolute_mask($ARGV[1])) ."\n";
my $network_address_number = $ip_number-(($ip_number % ($mask_number+1)));
my $first_host_number = $network_address_number+1;
my $last_host_number = $network_address_number+$mask_number-1;
my $broadcast_number = $network_address_number+$mask_number;
print "Network address: " . convolute($network_address_number) . "\n";
print "Broadcast: " . convolute($broadcast_number) . "\n";
print "First host: " . convolute($first_host_number) . "\n";
print "Last host: " . convolute($last_host_number) . "\n";
sub deconvolute {
my @ip = split(/\./,$_[0]);
return ($ip[0]*16777216 + $ip[1]*65536 + $ip[2]*256 + $ip[3]);
}
sub deconvolute_mask {
my @mask = split(/\./,$_[0]);
return (255-$mask[0])*16777216 + (255-$mask[1])*65536 + (255-$mask[2])*256 + (255-$mask[3]);
}
sub convolute {
use integer;
return join(".",($_[0]/16777216,($_[0]%16777216)/65536,(($_[0]%16777216)%65536)/256,(($_[0]%16777216)%65536)%256));
}
sub convolute_mask {
use integer;
my $i = 4294967295-$_[0];
return join(".",($i/16777216,($i%16777216)/65536,(($i%16777216)%65536)/256,(($i%16777216)%65536)%256));
}
>>55562446
nobody is technical anymore and theres no shaming allowed... and its a billion times worse if youre hiring 18-24 year olds.
>>55563316
Yes. Entry level is not hard to get into. You just need SOMETHING and at least present that you have a passion for it. We recently hired a person with no experience other than a 12 week boot camp. It should not be a problem. I suggest a recruitment agency. Its shit because they take some of the money but they WILL get you a job.
>>55563316
get a certification and ANY experience in IT
>>55563290
>I would assume somebody who finishes that degree is capable to a certain extent.
Only in a very general sense. Most CS programs don't require that much coding, a lot of subjects (and the professors themselves) are way out of date due to the pace of technology, and a lot of the other subjects are at best only tangentially related to what companies need.
>>55563316
What kinds of projects? I've definitely looked at people's GitHub profiles when interviewing and for some it actually hurt them. If its just school assignments (unless they are REALLY impressive school projects), or forked repos with little to no changes, it won't help you. However if you've actually been participating in open source projects, or developing your own projects, that could be a huge plus for you.
>>55563331
Yeah, probably
>>55563353
>I didn't try a recruiter, maybe I should have. I applied to approx 60 different positions.
THERESYOURPROBLEM.jpg
Seriously though, applying directly to companies is worthless. Your resume get's buried in with the others and then you have to survive several rounds of HR filtering before you get to a team leader or manager than can actually make an informed judgement. Recruiters typically work more directly with the manger/team leader so a smaller number of resumes ends up directly in their hands.
That said, not all recruiters are equal. Resume spam factories like Cyber Coders are useless for hiring or getting hired.
How much are you offering for the position? I wouldn't consider anything below 120k.
>>55562446
Well that's needlessly hurtful
I have no real skills or experience so I don't get interviews. Admittedly I didn't look outside where I live, where there are hardly any jobs. That wasn't very clever. I almost got a job as a web developer i.e. I got a 2nd interview.
Then I tried to join the military but I can't run, so couldn't pass the fitness test.
But I'm going back to finish my degree now. I dropped out near the end the first time because of depression.
Somehow I've managed to fail at everything despite not being particularly bad at anything. Life hates me.
>>55563353
With my limited knowledge of perl and networking I would say there is nothing wrong with this. At the very least it seems fine and fulfills its purpose. As an exercise this is great, however, many managers/techincal leads are looking for more practical problems to be solved. Contributing to open source or having your own project that solves a problem is much more valuable. I don't want to put you down though. This shows an understanding which is extremely valuable.
>>55563568
I'm going to assume this is bait.
>>55563643
What do you think would be a good kind of project to impress people with as little work as possible, and still relevant to sysadmin work?
>>55562446
USA is dead.
Shit pay due to wage pressure from visa workers and offshore.
All offshore.
First Move Jobs from Cities to Suburbs
Then
Move jobs to Near Shore in the Southern States
Then
Move Jobs Offshore.
Time to start DDOSing and Striking.
¡¡¡WE SHOULD ORGANIZE!!!
>>55563677
Tragically I am deadly serious. My life is so pathetic that it is hardly believable
>>55562446
What company/what's the pay?
Communications, Computer, and Software Workers Industrial Union 560
http://www.iww.org/unions/dept500/iu560
>>55563680
A knowledge of bash is pretty useful as its likely most of what you would deal with. Maybe write something that could automate the installation and automatic setup of something. You may need to deal with things like multiple machine communicating with each other so writing something relieve the pain of some service clustering together. Or create a diagnostic tool. for instance, submit a pull request to curl so that it supports proxy protocol. If you can do that I will personally pay you.
>>55563699
Tell me about your experience. Tell my about something you needed to solve that was difficult.
>>55563702
Cannot give company name. Pay depends on ability. Entry level is likely 40k
>>55563784
>expecting anyone decent will work for your shitty noname company for 40k
>>55563784
That's 10k less than I make. What kind of work is it and if you say development I'll stab you in the fucking balls.
>>55563725
lel
>>55563174
Fucking lol @ CS fags
Most of them end up in tech support jobs making slightly above minimum wage.
Why not get a fucking networking diploma which takes 2 years instead? Pathetic
>>55563808
Based on experience anon. Entry level like no experience and no degree. Just a interest in it. We haven't hired anyone for less than 60k. Besides, I imagine many people would like to work for that money given the circumstances.
Is this the NEET thread?
>>55562446
protip:SIGKILL doesn't always work
>>55563809
See
>>55563840
60k was for a guy with almost no experience. It was powershell scripting and we work with linux. And thats not even a tenth of the job.
However, perhaps this is the reason people can't get jobs. They are unwilling to work for less for a little while until they can build up some experience to make much more money.
>>55563886
>They are unwilling to work for less for a little while until they can build up some experience to make much more money.
That's what internships are for. If a university (not those grad program feeder schools) doesn't require an internship to graduate for a CS program, it's a shit school.
>>55562495
I'm in close(state away). Would you help me mv?
>>55563749
SOCKS?
>>55563929
Possibly, depending on your ability of course. Also I would not be able to divulge information via 4chan. I just want you to know that people WOULD be willing to do that.
>>55563912
>MIT, Harvard, and Stanford are shit schools
>>55563972
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not those grad program feeder schools
I take it you went to a shit school.
>>55563947
Sure. Not sure what the plan would be but it sounds as good as any. What can that solve for me? I often need to proxy but setting it up is sometimes a drag.
>>55563878
TRu
>>55563996
No I didn't. And less than a third of MIT undergrads go on to grad school. Same with the other colleges. They are by no means "grad program feeder schools".
>>55562495
>>55563279
How do I find the smaller tech companies that are looking for programmers/webdev/sysadmins? I only have a 2-year diploma in CIS and some retail and freelance webdev experience, not a 4-year degree in CS or any internships with tech companies.
Also, what's the best way to find US companies willing to hire and bring in someone from Canada? I want to come to the US to work but I don't even know how to begin searching for companies that would be willing to hire someone from another country. (Don't worry, I'm a cis white male and half my extended family is American anyways)
>>55563958
Degree in Mathematics/CompSci.
Can use Pythn/Linux/Java/Some SQL
Been around Comps. and Sciences all my life.
Chat more over another medium /g/ent?
>>55564069
No one wants to pay for your H1B Zhang.
>>55562446
although my job has nothing to do with porgramming or whatever really, we're in a similar boat. Its funny, I keep hearing about how shitty the job market is, but we've had an incredibly hard time finding and holding onto employees.
and before people say its because we're a shitty company, we're one of the largest for what we do in north america (if not the largest, depending what metric for "large" you use), fully unionized, full benefits, unlimited time off (if you want to take a month off to go to the bahamas, you can, albeit not all of it will be paid), tons of travel/relocation options, we're totally willing to train you from the ground up with no prior experience or training, but if you have experience/training we'll pay higher than anyone in the industry and offer tons of room for advancement, etc etc, etc. I see tons of people on facebook bitching about not being able to find jobs, but its like fuck, do you just not wanna work or find a job paying 150k/year doing absolutely nothing? I dont get it
I also see tons of young people coming in an expecting to be a supervisor within a year, and are shocked when they find out it doesn't work like that. Where does this entitlement come from? You can't just start sprinting before you can even crawl. And before anyone says I sound like an angry old boomer or whatever, I'm only 23, but I just cant understand my generation's attitude
>>55562446
I'm not unemployed, but two years ago I was looking for a new job (while still employed) and I experienced a lot of hostility during the interviews. I suppose my age and experience may have had something to do with it. There were multiple times where it was obvious I was talking over the level of the person interviewing me. Some interviews felt like going through a list and if ONE thing was not absolute perfect, it was over. One pair of interviewers would use company specific lingo and look at each other with the "what a dumbass" look when I didn't already know what the term meant.
>>55564069
Again, a recruitment company. They can figure stuff out. Remember to do some research on it before you commit. Some of them are absolutely horrible. Some are great. Also, coming from another country, I have heard that you get screwed horribly. You need "sponsorship" which costs a lot of money but not as much money as they will take from you. Need to be careful. I can't give any more advice than that. Sorry
>>55562446
look through HR pile of stuff they throw away.
Probably throws away or filters away 95% of the applications.
I am not even in tech and i was doing 30-40 job applications a day. Tons of my applications would be denied with in the hour which i thought was odd seeing the companies where local time zoned, and I would get rejection letters at 10 pm
>>55564113
Baby boomers were also entitled. They are just sour about millennials replacing them. The best companies are the ones that listen to employees and when they say they want more responsibility -- they GIVE IT TO THEM. Guess what -- if they fail, you can just get rid of them or put them back in a different role. If they succeed, CONGRATS!
>>55564155
Thanks, do you know if I should be looking for a Canadian recruitment company and telling them I'm interested in US jobs? Or talking to a US recruitment company?
>>55564084
I've made a temp email [email protected]
I don't believe I will be able to help you though, especially tonight as I have started drinking.
>>55564118
>company specific lingo
That sounds terrible and completely irrelevant. I wouldn't bother with a place that treats you like that, assuming it was really company specific.
As far as what we have experienced right now, being "absolutely perfect" was far from what we were looking for. We were looking for any spark that told us you knew what you were doing. As i've mentioned before, we are not being picky
>>55564113
I only want to respond to agree with this.
>>55564202
that's pretty much how my company works, they'll keep giving you more and more responsibility/raises until you crack then they'll loosen up the reins a bit to find out where you fall.
And ya I see tons of old farts getting upset about the young guys getting advanced in the company. But like, they're all so shitty at their jobs and so resistant to changing or incorporating any new tech into how they work, so they do everything shittier and slower. I kind of envy the guys in their 30s right now, they're in the sweet spot of having enough experience to do stuff well, old enough to know the value of hard work, but young enough to still absorb information
>>55564211
I don't have that level of knowledge, sorry. Do some research. I would suggest calling a few Canadian companies and get a baseline for how something like that would work.
>>55564113
Like i said in >>55564164
I mean I have gone to interviews where the 2-4 people interviewing me 3 hrs into a 1 hour interview saying we need to stop here because we have other interviewees and stuff to do today. Then drop " I look forward to working with you", 2 weeks later I get a this position has already been filled.
So either, there is a glut of over qualified people applying to entry level recent grad listings or there is another issue here.
Enjoy your diversity hires and O but this guy/girl graduated from X university.
>>55564564
This seems very foreign to me. Where do you live (generally), what type of job were you going for, and what type of pay range were you going for?
>>55564290
Well it is Minnesota... Make sure you can entice people to move there.
>>55564604
>chicago
>entry level finance anything ( accounting, analyst, junior compliance, lock box admin, loan opener )
>pay range 35-45k
the most recent rejection letter was a secretary at a metals company, they took me for a impromptu tour of the facility, introduced me to the entire office staff, and had me interview with the regional director. It was a listed 30-45 minute interview, i was there for 2 hours.
Greatest part why I thought I had the job was, as I was leaving " we will call you end of next week or early week after to set up your paper work "
currently doing PhD because I couldn't find entry-level job while tutoring undergrads
Give us a job, OP! I actually already have a job in a warehouse, and I'd probably be completely unqualified for what you've got, plus I'd probably need a visa/work permit for your country, but I'm a diligent employee and learn quickly!
I handled hiring for an MSP in my area. We near the middle of California, but about a couple hour drive from Silicon Valley. The time I put out for hires I was inundated with stupid-qualified and insanely under-qualified.
The usual stack of resumes would look like this:
A) The old computer guy who has had a million years working on old shit that isn't remotely relevant. Is entirely too cocky for his own good. Phone interviews usually end with "Does this non-relevant even want the job, because he sure as hell has a fuckass attitude"
B) The guy who wants to pivot from working in minor-scale wiring to IT. Knows nothing about computers, but likes attics and running wire and usually smells like old clothing and methamphetamine. He thinks he can do the job because he put some ethernet in walls as a once-off contract gig. Phone interview goes OK, but you definitely aren't expecting anything exciting from him. Usually ends in a "I swear to god if this is the best option I have I'm going to quit and move."
C) The guy who worked at a mom-and-pop shop fixing computers. Thinks he knows computers, but only knows consumer-level side of computers. This is the guy who knows what a hard drive is, how it works, what RAM is and how it works, and when asked "Can you work with networks?" he'll reply "Yeah I set up my parent's linksys router for them". Active directory, powershell, bash, bat, DNS, OSI mean nothing and are met with blank stares.
D) The Silicon Valley wannabe. This is a dude in expert fluff. Lists edgy new high-level programming languages in his resume for a SysAdmin job. Throws in every word he knows how to pronounce into his resume. He can't help it, he just wants the job. I get it, but if you say you know "Cisco", you better be able to tell me what the blue cable does in relation to the console port. First comes off as a promising resume, but crashes and burns in the interview.
Comment got too long, so I'll end it here. It's about spending a shitload of time.
I'm not unemployed anymore, but I did have quite a bit of trouble for a while. One thing that took me some time to get over was the fact that the job descriptions sucked because they were written by people who didn't know anything about programming.
It would say shit like
"5 years experience minimum" for a junior role when they didn't actually mean it.
"Must have experience with [library I could probably learn most of in a week by fucking around with it]"
"Must be expert in [language I feel comfortable with but don't consider myself an expert in]" etc.
Eventually I realized that I had to ignore most of it, and I found a job easily after that.
>>55564816
Continued.
It's about spending a shitload of time, but most importantly it's about designing a proper ad. You need to advertise just as much as the candidate needs to get the attention of the one pulling in candidates. If I'm looking for an entry SysAdmin, I'm not going to throw out any requirements. No 4+ years on the job and two degrees. No requirement for huge knowledge on mundane or exotic technologies. It's going to be "You like computers and learning? Work for us. You'll be badass."
I like to make my personal ads as open as humanly possible so I can gather as many candidates as possible and shift through them. It's better to collect ten pounds of bullshit than to miss an ounce of potential, because those guys are massive to building an amazing team of professionals. This is my technique.
If I'm looking for experienced IT guys, I'm going to add a "Bonus points if:" section. Still no "Required:" section. If I need someone to know AD and Group Policy and Powershell, I'm going to ask for it, and I'm not going to throw in fifteen thousand different minor skills I'm looking for. Don't hunt the Unicorns. Find the horse and stick the horn on it's head. With the right candidate, they'll quickly turn into a unicorn.
>>55564113
>we're totally willing to train you from the ground up with no prior experience or training
What is this company, I'm in school part time for math and computer science, and this type of job would be a great opportunity.
>>55564964
It's a company the 209 area code, if that helps. I no longer work there, but I'm close with those guys. I moved on to in-house IT for a large company and they definitely don't do it the way I've described. When I was there, I would have definitely hired someone in your position if you had some kind of connection to the IT world. Home lab, tinkering with computers, something. It was better than type A,B and D.
>>55562446
Because people who say they can't find work aren't trying hard enough
>>55562446
Do you require a degree, 3+ years of experience, willingness to move across the country at the drop of a pin, and 24/7 on call availability, yet offer a salary that works out to barely over minimum wage?
>>55562474
Think you have that backwards bro. There's a bigger talent shortage in flyover country because everyone wants to live in Meme Valley.
>>55565009
This is the type of company I want to work for. I know to apply to ads even if I don't "fit" exactly but it seems a little insane to ask for a Bachelor's degree and 3-5yrs experience for Tier 1 helpdesk or NOC technician job.
>>55565009
>It's a company the 209 area code, if that helps.
but 209 is a huge area. can you give the first 3 letters of the company at least
also, why so secretive about it?
>>55565178
Because one could rationally deduce his identity if they were adamant...especially if he's on LinkedIn.
>>55563495
Haha, how old are you and what was your last salary?
Also, are you working now?
>>55565009
>209 area code
Lel, what kind of a respected company can be headquartered in the drug infested shithole that is 209?
>>55565266
Why do any of those things matter? What my current company pays me is not an indication of what my worth would be to another company.
>>55565195
Bingo.
>>55565175
I appreciate that. When I started with the company a number of years ago I was in a position that I had viable job skills and didn't have a way to prove it outside of demonstrating. When I got into a position where I could make things happen I didn't want to lead the company's hiring efforts down the path that so many have gone. I wanted to hire good people, with good skills, who might not be able to say "I have a million certs and credentials". Those are the best types, as they usually are much more tenacious and hungry than people who are fully certified up and just coasting for the best pay. I've seen certified dudes run circles around teams of certified "IT professionals".
>>55565283
You'd be surprised the amount of money that is to be made. The service requirements are low (Email and file sharing? Great. We're happy. Oh, backups? That sounds amazing!), labor is somewhat low, and the valley is largely neglected.
With all that said, I'm going to be launching a competing company in the 209 here in the near future. I'll be stopping by /g/ to grab some of my brethren for the adventure, if any are close by.
Nobody will even give me a first glance let alone a second because I don't have any certs or real work experience.
Fuck me all I want is a part time tech job trouble shooting.
>>55565459
Have you considered getting a cert?
>>55565469
Getting one does nothing, they want like 6, and I have to pay for them.
>>55565459
Getting a cert. You have a best buy nearby? Geek Squad sucks but it gives you SOME experience. Also look at your local school systems. They'll hire many times with basic knowledge and maybe an A+.
>>55563725
commies can burn in hell
>>55565483
If you don't want to be employed, you can just say that. For what you described, the absolute max cert you would need is an A+ and it's not that expensive.
Stop lying to yourself. You don't want to be employed.
>>55565483
your job should pay for your certs. only idiots pay for their own certs
>>55565498
I am employed though, just want to work with computers too.
>>55565556
Then you have even less reason to complain. You can probably afford the A+ exam cost and it's a joke to take if you have a vague idea of what you're doing.
>>55565360
Damn. Why can't more dudes like you be in DFW area. Do you have any recommendations on labs or things to do at home to become an admin? Any good resources? I'm up in the air between Network and Systems.
>>55565483
You will need something to start off. But even with an A+ it's just going to get you the lowest level of jobs. That's just how it is, that's where you can start.
Also there's no point in getting further advanced certs if you don't have work experience. So just get an A+ or the basic Microsoft cert if that's what you want, and you'll get the entry level job. It's never going to get to a point where it's "easy" as even when you get that first job, you'll have to keep working to learn more and not get stuck in a dead-end position.
IT is saturated now, there's no easy path to success but hard work and gaining knowledge and valuable skills.. but you can still do it.
>>55565575
Just wait. The next generation of business leaders are turning the whole hiring process on it's head. We'll have our time to fix this bullshit.
I'd suggest you lean heavily on your in-home lab to learn. You have all knowledge at your fingertips, so utilize it.
Network guys are going to slowly be replaced by systems. Systems guys are going to turn into operations guys. If you want advice that'll have you positioned squarely on the next wave coming: Learn soft skills and scripting. Automation is going to radically transform our landscape, so you need to be ahead of the curve. It's coming, and it's here, but it's integration is slow.
If I could express it in just a few words: Powershell. If I had one piece of advice for someone, it would be to learn powershell as deeply as humanly possible. This doesn't mean entirely too much until you understand what powershell does and how it interacts with other aspects of the windows ecosystem, but once you've learned the basics (Torrent CBT Nuggets. Old shit is fine, you're just trying to learn, not pass a test. Download Packet Tracer to learn enterprise networking concepts and implementation.) you can start digging into powershell.
Contributing to the Microsoft script center would definitely be something I would highlight on a resume once you feel comfortable writing some useful utilities that do... Whatever.
Also, Microsoft has some outstanding learning resources. Spun-up environments for fucking around. Check out Microsoft Virtual Academy and go to town. Linux is good, but start with Microsoft's stuff first, as it's an easy way to stabilize yourself into the market and move into Linux at a later date.
>>55565754
Thanks man. Are you saying the CBT Nuggets for scripting or for the network side? Are there any good tutorials on powershell?
>>55562446
>Can anyone explain this to me?
You realize how much bullshit you have put up with a interview, and screening process for getting a job these days? It's a miracle if you are able to find a job, and nevermind one that is fucking stable. You have to fill online application, pass tests, have perfect cloths, perfect social skills, perfect technical knowledge to these people. That's not even getting into the bullshit about how employers see people who are over six month unemployed, unhireable. You get fired or layoff for shit that you cannot
Companies do not hire people off of the street. They want people who have experience, so that they do not have train them. Most college grad struggle to get job because they lack on the job experience. If you don't get a related field, a decade of worth experence you are considered unemployedable in this market.
I have temp job, but I probably going be unemployed in the next few months. I'm going to applying like crazy for half decent job.
>>At the company I work for we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and still can't find enough people.
I don't trust company who say this bullshit. They either have qualitification that are too high. Or they have high turnover so they need to hire as many as possible. Because the last time I work for a company who was hiring like crazy, they laid me off in 3 months. Most of the companies who hire people like crazy have shitty management that cannot attain their workers.
I blame HR departments. Where I work the only place jobs get posted are on the website's careers page. Which is buried in a way that almost nobody knows it exists. So the only people that see open positions are people already working for us.
There is also a lack of willingness to train new hires these days. They'll require 5-10 years experience in a technology instead of getting someone competent and training them. It results in weird extremes, like OP saying they're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Why the fuck would you do that? Make your job posting requirements more generic instead of vendor specific so you can reach more people. If you find someone decent enough that doesn't have the exact qualifications, teach them. This shit isn't hard. It's only when you see stupid shit like "Required proficiency in niche proprietary application that only exists in our market segment" that it becomes difficult to find people.
>>55568117
this
>>55564084
move to shithole, australia, get paid half the salary you're worth and come work at my startup :^)
>>55565068
Welcome to globalism, where you compete against the entire world. It's just a lot of them don't need as much money as you to live. :^)
>>55563247
>A CS degree on its own is basically worthless because they don't teach anything of any practical use. If you don't have a couple internships to pad your resume with, you are kinda fucked.
>In my experience the people who can't find jobs fall into two groups. The first one is the kinds of people I mentioned above. They've got some kind of tech skills but are basically worthless because none of the skills they have are in demand.
OH America! What exactly is it that you do in your colleges again? Because here in Germany, when you are getting a CS degree, you are learning everything you need to know, including a bunch of programming languages. You have enough knowledge to successfully start through in your new job.
>The second group is people who are just bad a job searching. They'll do stuff like only apply to a couple big tech companies (Google, Apple, and Facebook for example) and when they don't get
Who in the right mind would do that?
>>55569063
You dont understand. There's enough candidates with both a degree and experience, that they don't have to take someone with just a degree (i.e. unproven in the field).
>>55569092
As far as I have heard in ANY kind of profession in Germany, you always need the degree AND the experience. That is work experience. Now this is where it gets tricky. How is someone who has just finished University/eduction/training with no work experience supposed to find a job that requires work experience? All jobs require experience here in Germany. ALL of them. But you can't gain job experience if you don't get a job. It's paradox
This is why im currently rooting for the "Dual study". There you have to apply in a company for a job, and they basically mix your time with parttime working and parttime university. You also get some good money too. This why you'll have the experience you need to apply for a job. Bad thing is you literally have 0 freetime
>>55569142
Just apply to Volkswagen and replace tyres
>>55569509
Working for car companies always pays off well. Not sure about the replacing tyres parts though
>>55562446
Did you try searching for people who would work remotely? I think there are enough people who would prefer to work from home even for lower pay.
>>55564679
I can't speak to other job markets. Only have heard it is tough if you are not in IT.
>>55564809
Sans the visa requirement (sponsorship costs) I think we would consider somebody like this.
>>55562474
Is that so? I've heard of companies in the Midwest and south struggling hard to find talent. The jobs tend to pay less, but the cost of living is way lower
>>55564830
No kidding. I see this all the time. Then we have this culture of "just lie about yourself a little" like act overly confident because your competition will be too. Completely pointless. I no longer play that game
>>55564871
Come to think of it, I haven't even looked at our posting. We told some people about what we were looking for and they made the posting. I will have to look into this. Thanks
>>55562446
>the left image is literally how your immune system tries to kill cancer
>>55565068
As I've mentioned, we don't really require anything. We want to hire smart people who can learn. The salary is based off ability. I make 120 but we hired a guy who basically did tech support because he was interested and screwed around with stuff on the side. For 60
>>55562446
>Hiring for entry level position
>$10 an hour
>>5 years of experience REQUIRED
This is why.
>>55562446
How much would someone with Help Desk - Jr. Sysadmin skill level make at your company?
Think CCNA, MCSA, RHCSA
>>55570377
>Turns out Windows is a living being
Shittt
>tfw need 5 year experience for an entry level job
>tfw need a job to gain experience
Even though I'm unemployed atmosphere I never had problems with interviews. Got invited to 2/3 of the companies I applied at, got the job every time I went to an interview.
Based knowledge and the ability to pretend to be socially functional for half an hour can get anyone a job.
![Oreimo S2 - 11.mkv_snapshot_19.17_[2016.06.24_15.12.35].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NcqZtRV.jpg "Oreimo S2 - 11.mkv_snapshot_19.17_[2016.06.24_15.12.35].jpg")
>>55563690
>USA is dead.
If that were true, why am I pulling 10 grand a month after taxes for doing fuckall in my IT jerb? Why is it we can't find anyone to fill shoes?
>>55562446
this image is so untrue
>>55564830
>"5 years experience minimum" for a junior role when they didn't actually mean it.
>"Must have experience with [library I could probably learn most of in a week by fucking around with it]"
>"Must be expert in [language I feel comfortable with but don't consider myself an expert in]" etc.
Every single fucking posting has this shit.
Like, god damn. I have a degree from a reputable school. I've PROVED that I can learn quickly. Don't tell me I had to have used some obscure tech that I could easily learn on the job.
>>55562446
I'm a DBA + BI dev.
I applied for a tier-1 helpdesk position, but got picked out of the interview process to do DBA/Sysadmin stuff. I ended up creating our entire BI infrastructure over the last 2 years.
Interview was more about who I am and how capable I am with new things. It was very relaxed, but I remember being super nervous because it was 5 of them and one of me.
Frankly, I can't remember them asking many technical things in the interview.
>>55565754
>Automation is going to radically transform our landscape, so you need to be ahead of the curve. It's coming, and it's here, but it's integration is slow.
This.
Most everything is automated in various ways these days, whether through an RMM tool like LabTech, or using that tool to deploy VBScript, C#/Python/whatever scripts, etc.
>>55571961
Enjoy it while it lasts. Hope you're saving or investing a good amount of it.
>>55562446
>can't find enough people
>expect everyone to have 10 years work experience
>everyone else expects the same, meaning no entry level jobs
What did you expect? You are being forced to lower your standards now and do like your previous businessmen: look for people willing to work and learn and don't expect any previous degree since said degrees does not offer you anything at this point.
I would be willing to join as a janitor (and progressively grow in the company by learning a needed skill set) at this point but not everyone shares my willingness, which makes things difficult for you. Guess that both of us are fucked, friend.
When an entry level job requires 3+ years of experience, do you really think all the people with 3+ years of experience are going to apply for it? Fuck no. They put that on the job description to discourage people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing from applying. Makes it easier on hr. If you feel that you're competitive, apply anyway.
>>55562446
Im only a sophmore in college ( comp sci ). Companys want graduates with degrees. Even though i lack experience I can python program and would honestly work for $12/hr which is a good deal for them imo.
If I publish app on android market, can I use it as resume for getting job?
>>55574074
You can certainly link to it on your resume.
>>55574281
Ok thank.
>>55572293
Not the same guy but I am studying Informatics with a focus in cyber security right now and I am very hopeful for my career future. I really think you are being too cynical.
Tech jobs are everywhere and the pay is incredible for doing bitch work.
/g/ thinks they're worth more than they are. They want a six digit salary for code monkey shit despite having no experience.
>>55565754
Can attest to this. Not powers he'll but automation is becoming huge. It's actually what our team does.
>>55566932
Read the thread. We don't fire. We have hired people who did a 12 week boot camp and a guy who had 6 months of powershell experience.
I must have gotten lucky. I turn down jobs almost daily from recruiters and I have never really had these problems during interviews.
>>55568117
This is the last time I plan to respond to this type of statement. Read the thread
>>55570202
We said it's an option on the posting.
>>55570669
60k maybe? Anything related to Windows is not really useful to us. The rest is great, very useful. More important than that is if you are able to learn on your own and if you have problem solving skills. I assume most people do to a certain extent.
>>55572195
Sounds like that company did well to place you in that then. This is the type of thing we want to happen
My problem solving skills are what consistently gets me hired.
OP it sounds like your 'company' is looking for a certain type of individual. I am that type of individual.
I am physically, emotionally, and mentally fit for the job. How do I get in contact with you?
>>55573466
Read thread
>>55573755
What area?
>>55577424
This guy gets it although I would be a bit wary of meeting and hiring from 4chan. What area you live,in?
Have no experience outside of fixing computers via craigslist ad, A+ Net+ Sec+, 2 years of cyber security education. Recruiters got me many interviews but never a job. 2 years ago applied to work at new microsoft store opening in town, group interview had somebody with 10 years in the field vying for essentially a minimum wage job.
I work from home doing grunt work while friend i went to school with is pulling 6 figures because his dad got him a job right out of school and it snowballed from there.
I just got my Bachelors in CE. Most positions seem to require 3 years experience. I'm thinking of ignoring all of those requirements and try to apply anyways.
>>55577625
Yes. Do it
>>55562446
I'm Finnish and the last developer position applied said they had received "a dozen" applications. That and Microsoft just booted like 1400 mostly senior developers onto work market by shutting down its mobile operations here. I'm almost fluent in German and have seriously considered flipping the bird at this hellhole for a year or two and moving to Switzerland for work before finishing my masters. I fucking hate not getting hired with my insane skills stack.
>>55577654
Will do!
Also, does anyone itt have any experience with LinkedIn? Should I register? There's tons of services that are like it, should I register to everything?
I'm struggling to find a job right now. I got my BS in CS in 2013. I worked for about 3 years doing tech support at my uni for 21/hr but I left that job to move to Raleigh NC about two weeks ago. I've been applying to jobs here for months now in anticipation of moving but I've only had a few callbacks and haven't had any interviews in ages now. I apply to entry level help desk, sys admin, programming, anything I think I can do, or learn to do quickly. I've tried a few different recruiters and they've all been useless.
>>55577729
I think LinkedIn is great for networking. Most of the jobs I got through somebody I had previously worked with. Beware of recruiter requests, they will all want to connect with you. It's not a bad thing necessarily but will become annoying after you are already established
>>55577508
North East Florida
>>55577761
Cool thanks!
>Beware of recruiter requests, they will all want to connect with you. It's not a bad thing necessarily but will become annoying after you are already established
That seems pretty convenient for someone like me who just got a degree. It might get annoying but it's a good problem to have if you ask me.
I've had almost a dozen different interviews for a engineering position.
Turned down on 2.
okay thats cool
Had 7 tell me they want me bad, but wont hire me because of the oncoming US election.
3 haven't gotten back with me, and i'm waiting on 2 more.
>>55577927
>Had 7 tell me they want me bad, but wont hire me because of the oncoming US election.
What? I'm a youropoor, what has the election to do with them not hiring you?
I hate my costumer support job. I wish I could apply more to programming.
>>55577980
Honestly, I have no idea.
Probably just worried about the potential market.
A few jobs were military, so I guess that is another thing.
But oddly enough they are the few I'm still waiting and have hopes for.
>>55570296
Tbh, I would love to live and work in such a situation....
But I also want to be able to visit my parents or home country once a time.....
And who knows how the health and risk can be managed in such countries.
Can I really fit in?
Can İ stand these people?
Can they stand me?
Will I ever find a stable live there?
These are my questions when I think about working somewhere where the pay is low and the living expenses even much lower.
>>55570296
this.
but come start of next year. everything is in a freeze atm.
its not so bad in some areas. very tech friendly.
Tomorrow I'm starting my first job ever, well actually it's an internship. I'm 23 and I didn't really start looking for a job till a year ago. It's a .NET internship, I barely know any of that stuff, but they chose me based on a technical interview where I did the tasks in C++. I'm nervous as fuck, how does a codemonkey's day at work even look like?
>>55562446
You have to be lazy or stubborn to move to not get a job with a CS degree in the US. I had three job offers before I graduated (no internships, live in MN). I just created some pizza website with an api in a weekend and showed it to the interviewers.
>>55577602
Wow same bro
>>55565360
What's a good place sysadmin stuff?
>>55565490
don't bet the farm on this
I have a recent A+ but I've been rejected twice after interviews because they expect you to have relevant job experience. The job also lists that they prefer their minimum wage workers to have an associates degree.
a y y l m a o
>>55578608
Based on my experience: you will need to get set up with a development environment (set up tools and such) then spend time understanding the product and then figuring out requirements for a task/suite of tasks(sometimes called a story). You will get into the code and be slow at first (this is expected). You will try to code it and get help from others. You will submit it for code review. Many things will be wrong, don't get discouraged. You will fix them and everything will continue like that. I am leaving out the fun parts which is problem solving and discussions about design. This is the majority of the job.
Depending on methodology you may have several other meeting including planning and retrospective. Retrospective is trying to figure out what went wrong and how to improve it.
>>55568709
where to look for startup jobs in shithole australia? sydney preferably
>>55577187
I already read the thread, senpai. Just because you are hiring doesn't mean the entire market is hiring for jobs. Every company has a different hiring process different rules . It's a hypercompetive, and proactive market these days.
>I have never really had these problems during interview
Anecdote evidence, senpai. Just because there is a lot of luck, and timing in these market these day.
I don't expect 100k in my first attempt. I'd be happy to get 35k to be honest.
Can a computer crash from not having enough ram alone? Literally turn off
>>55562446
Where is your company located, what type of software you do make, and what kind of skill level are you talking about when you say "bottom of the barrel" exactly?
How could a hobbyist programmer apply for a dev position? I dont have anything to add to my resume but since i got bored of playing vidya all day, i started learning how to write in Lua and Java.
I am on the way to make a game for the PC but im already stuck on the art asset hell.
Sort of related.
Got laid off from an MSP in NYC (they merged, cut out about 25% of staff from every level, dependent on seniority)
Decided to start my own small MSP/Consulting firm. Reached out to some clients I used to deal with, signed on four offices within the first six months.
I'm still running the MSP now. We're small (3 staff) but maintain about 1300 users total.
>>55563457
>I suggest a recruitment agency. Its shit because they take some of the money but they WILL get you a job.
Are there any in particular you can recommend?
Someone come to Chicago and hire me!
>>55585314
Do you have
>Bachelor's degree, Master's preferred
>3-5 years experience giving blowjobs
>experience with the following technologies: condoms, dildos, buttplugs, strapons
>ability to be on call 24/7 for peggings
>willing to swallow, every time
>willing to work for $30k/yr, non negotiable
>>55585366
IM NOT YOUR WHORE ANON!
My problem is that I'm not productive at all.
Not even a ton of money can make me want to work.
Not sure why.
Also no idea how the hell I'm going to survive like this.
>>55584962
>We're small (3 staff) but maintain about 1300 users total.
Jesus christ.
I work for an MSP pushing into the mid-market and we've got about 4500 endpoints at almost 30 employees.
We do professional services, though, so those projects bring in tons of dosh. Network architectures, business intelligence, etc.
>>55585854
How old are you?
I'd definitely be like that if I didn't come from a background of part-time jobs while I was in high school.
Honestly, that crushing depression you get when you know you have to do something like a research paper in 2 days gets 10x worse when it's IRL things like paying a bill or having a disgusting room.
Eventually you just have to realize that money solves almost every problem.
>>55582530
That's my point though. If it's hyper competitive and the market is saturated we ought to be able to find all sorts of people. Why then are we having so much trouble.
And yes anecdotal. I said I must be lucky. Although I could say the same thing about your view of the market.
>>55586122
>If it's hyper competitive and the market is saturated we ought to be able to find all sorts of people. Why then are we having so much trouble.
Because most of the people who 'can't find jobs' are really just sitting at home living on someone else's dime while submitting a half-assed resume to GE, Google, or Apple once a month or so.
Millennials apply to companies they've heard of on the internet, rather than companies a block away looking for their exact skills.
>>55584962
I like this story
>>55585095
Depends on location. Have heard bad things about teksystems and a few others I am having trouble name.
An update from OP: based on this thread it sounds like there is a problem with the company doing the presenting of candidates. Possibly they are vetting too heavily (though that doesn't explain the last two hires). We will get in contact with them and see what the deal is.
Thanks for giving feedback guys
>>55586122
>If it's hyper competitive and the market is saturated we ought to be able to find all sorts of people. Why then are we having so much trouble.
Probably because HR doesn't know how to attract or find the people that they are looking for. HR department will sometimes exaggerate and scare people from applying for the jobs. There was really good video on youtube that discuss the topic of how job description scare people from jobs that they are fully capable.
>>55586167
>LE MILLIENALS ARE STUPID MEME.
Most people are this board are millennials. You basically making fun of yourselves when say this. Anywho, Applying for jobs these day is a full-time job itself in terms of the dedication required to find another.
Even if you do put in that time, there is many factor that cause somebody to struggle more then other to find a job. A lot of times Unemployed people may never truly understand why they are unemployed. There is no self-feedback in the market, company don't tell people why are they not chosen. So job hunter never figure out the problems that causing are them to worse candidates.
.
>>55586958
I AM a millennial. I'm 23. Most of the people my age are fucking morons, and sometimes I think that I'm not much better off.
I did the same thing. My first few applications were big tech companies. Luckily, I was advised to look into local options, and now I'm making bank at a comfy job.
I can still express my discontent with millennials as a whole, much the same as a black person saying how much they hate black people.
>>55565754
>Network guys are going to slowly be replaced by systems
I'm going into studying networking, how the hell is it going to be automated?
>>55587502
It's not.
That guy is talking out of his ass.
Networking is guaranteed cash.
>>55562446
Yeah so I worked with python and elaaticsearch and MySQL doing everything you can with those systems. I did that for 2.5 years and left in january. I don't have a degree yet so I went back to take a few classes to get a little closer. Now I miss the money and am trying to go back but no one is interested in me. Can't even get an interview, I don't get it. But yeah that's my story for now. I'm in Dallas
>>55562446
I applied to several code monkey position 3 weeks ago (with cover letter, resume, link to my github account, ...). 0 answer. What bothers me is that my resume should be OK (several internship, graduated with honors, several projects I've done alone/in team, ...). Hell, I've even noticed several unreferred views on my git repos (which probably mean some HR guy clicked on the links I put in my resume).
>>55562446
>I want to chat with people who say they are having a hard time finding work. Be it dev, ops or sysadmin. I want to hear about experiences they have had with interviews.
>At the company I work for we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and still can't find enough people. Can anyone explain this to me?
>Pic unrelated
I put in a hundred resumes, not a single response :((
>>55569063
>OH America! What exactly is it that you do in your colleges again? Because here in Germany, when you are getting a CS degree, you are learning everything you need to know, including a bunch of programming languages. You have enough knowledge to successfully start through in your new job.
I learned Java, C, C#, a little bit of C++, Scheme, and SQL at my uni. A degree by itself just isn't good enough. You need to have (usually professional) experience beyond academic stuff.
>>55564816
I would pick option D, as he most likely has the most ability/drive to learn. You'd have to put up with his personality for a while, but soon he would understand the bigger picture.
A: Thinks he's the hottest shit since he's been around for a while, and probably won't listen
B: Has the work-ethic and attitude, but probably not the ability.
C: I have mixed feelings about this guy... he probably just never got the chance to be exposed to those technologies, but you'd think people would know what they're getting into when they apply for real sysadmin positions.
>>55577750
Why did you move to Raleigh before securing a job?
>>55578784
Pizza.net
>>55578784
What exactly did this website feature?
>>55589083
My fiancee got a great job here and I moved here with her.
>>55586999
>bawww why can't all kids my age get lucky like I did
kys
>>55586958
Not an HR department but,comparable. It's a recruitment agency are going through. We have already determined that our job posting is shit which we took steps to fix today.
Could you recommend a good video?
>>55587593
Get a recruiter. Do some research and try to figure out if they are screwing you. Some are very good. While you are probably relatively new to those technologies it's a good set to,have. People ARE looking for,people like you. This sounds like you are having trouble connecting with those people
>>55562446
Never have any hard time looking for IT related jobs, shit is so large its even larger than some few industries combined.
Personally i lost interests in IT related field, fucking around like building systems and troubleshooting for friend's company is fun and games. I cant seem to want to make money out of it anymore.
>Apply for several good government positions.
>literally silver spoon sucking jobs that pay 70,000-80,000 a year times the locality incentives for work that I can do part time, and then startup a business alongside.
>Takes them 6 months to interview me
>They call me to say they missed the deadline and can't hire me, so I have to reapply again with the new posting
This happened yesterday.
I'm beyond fucking mad.
>>55594510
>Not an HR department but,comparable. It's a recruitment agency are going through. We have already determined that our job posting is shit which we took steps to fix today.
For starters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ
Maybe your company just sucks LOL
