I love restoring old computers, don't you?
keyboard looks so comfy
>>55562374
I do, but the oldest thing I could lay my hands on is a k6 socket 7 system.
>>55562690
Apart from that one k6 machine, most of the stuff I could get are p4-athlon64 era components.
I do. I wish I had more money to do that, shit's expensive.
>>55562690
At least K6en are a good example of a typical '90s consumer box. Kind of want to get mine running again.
>>55562374
The online Apple II community sucks btw. These guys are all collectorfags obsessed with low serial numbers and original model Apple IIs with ROM Integer BASIC even though a later model like the IIe is far more useful. And they also get butthurt if you don't use exactly period-correct hardware on your setup. Duodisk on a II+? Blasphemy.
>>55562791
>unironically wanting the cobbled-together thrift store shitbox experience of non date-matched hardware
baka
>>55562374
Maybe
>>55562791
Yup, it's like baby's first vintage computer.
But it's not only the Apple II, most of them are not just collectorfags who don't know shit about the things they have.
>>55562791
It's slightly creepy that a lot of Apple II stuff on Ebay is from estate sales, but I assume the overall userbase was older, than, say C64fags and includes a lot of retired engineers and stuff of that nature.
The other thing is that Apple II auctions go for more money if some bigshot owned them. That IIe came from your Uncle Ed's attic? $50 for the lot. It came from a retired MIT professor's home laboratory? $500 for the lot.
>>55562374
All computers are awesome!
>>55564085
What's this led on the right?
>>55562374
>I love restoring old computers, don't you?
You know I do.
Any idea how to attach a Joystick on this machine? No MIDI port available...
>>55564229
It actually goes inside, where the empty holes are just left of the leds.
But I'm working on it so I pull the top open all the time, it's just easier to leave them out, don't have to disconnect the cable every time.
>>55564289
Ok, I understand. What are you working on, that you need to open the case that often?
>>55564337
Ordering and adding upgrades when they arrive, don't want to screw it together just to open up again 2 days latter.
>>55562791
IDK, but it does seem to me that these guys have no interest in developing demos or new homebrew games like you see for C64/Atari/ZX Spectrum fanboys. They seem more interested in hardware addons than software.
>>55564257
Man, that's a thought question
>>55564498
Apple II programming isn't all that easy or fun compared with programming a C64 or Atari 8-bit and the results are going to be pretty underwhelming against either of those. You have to be a real wizard at 6502 asm all for six colors made of NTSC artifacts and bleeper sound. Meanwhile, a C64 will be much easier to code for and you can get nice colors, sprites, and god-level sound.
t. you'll put more into coding a Apple II game/demo than you'll get out of it
I gut old computers i find on ebay, and put AMD/NVIDIA gaming builds in them. Fight me
>>55564792
dumb mouseposter
>>55564792
Who gives a shit, your loss.
>>55564755
It always nagged me that Apple IIs had at least three different major OS versions (DOS 3.2, DOS 3.3, and ProDOS) all of which are incompatible and use different disk formats. Nobody who used a C64 ever had to deal with that. Plug the disk drive in and it works. On any Commodore 8-bit (PET drives need an IEC adapter though).
>>55564498
Another thing - Applefags for some autistic reason mostly hang out on Usenet and refuse to have a proper website along the lines of Lemon64 or AtariAge.
>>55565073
68kmla, os9lives, even Nekochan has a reasonable amount of Apple collectors/enthusiasts.
Though they are definitely Mac-focused, they pick up a lot of the II crowd too I would presume.
Ebay does charge a stupid amount of money for Apple II shit, although I blame it on that time an original II sold for like $5000 so suddenly every autist got the idea of asking triple digit prices for common IIes and IIcs made in the millions.
>>55565155
How many Apple IIs were actually made? I heard the C64 was like 20 million or something.
>>55565155
Yup, that's what has happened to a lot of old tech lately.
Faggots who grew up with Pentium 4's and shit now suddenly sperg out when they get their hand on anything older, thinking its super rare and trying to sell it for ridiculous amounts.
Same time hipster faggots who have no clue about those systems just buy them for those prices because it's the cool thing to do.
>>55565202
>The Apple II was one of the longest running mass-produced home computer
Close to the C64, believe me.
>>55564257
>hit punch or kick to start game
>hit, punch or kick to start game
I think I'd be more of the "I like putting new computers in old shells" kind of guy. If I could track down like a Commodore PET or some other old all in one with an attached keyboard and put a modern MiniITX board in it with like a modest build in it and gut the screen and put like a repurposed tablet or laptop screen in there, that would be dope.
A small update in case there are people around from previous threads; I have been busy with work and haven't gotten a chance to bring more stuff, this is most of it so far.
>>55565369
Going well I see, nice.
>>55565409
Wtf, I wanted to say:
>>55565369
Find a broken one or just case, cheaper and also sell the guts.
>>55565401
Going well I see, nice.
>>55565216
>>55565202
Actually that's a myth. The total number of C64s sold between 1982 and 1994 was about 12.5 million. Also they only sold 6 million Apple IIs between 1977 and 1993.
So no, there's not nearly as many Apple IIs as there are C64s and also they only sold about 150,000 of the II/II+ which means that IIe/IIc machines account for the vast majority of that 6 million.
>>55565450
But fuck, are Apple II's popular these days, it really is like a babys first retro computer like mentioned before
>>55565448
Yeah, that's the plan, I assume it would be cheaper to do what I'm looking for than it would be to get a working old one just to play Zork or something on.
>>55565460
>baby's first retro computer
Heavens to bitsy, no. It takes a hell of a lot more to get an Apple II up and running than a C64 and it's not as good at gaming. You'd have to be _considerably_ more neckbeardish to want to bother with that shit.
>>55565583
>baby neckbeards first retro computer
Fine. But just look on youtube at all those idiots with Apple II's
>>55565401
every time
I see you have a new PS/2 5x with no drives, what's the story on that?
I want one of pic related
>>55565650
3B2s in general sound cool as fuck.
I've always wanted a piece of micro big iron. I almost want to pick up one of those $99 microVAXen on ebay right now.
>>55565624
No idea, pulled out of a government office so it doesnt have a hard drive. All the model 60s and 80s had their drives removed too, going to look into getting a CF or SD card replacement for them eventually but I've just been busy.
>>55565695
that's a shame, those 80s especially had bitchin' 5.25'' FH ESDI disks.
explains the lack of drives on that thing though, maybe it was a diskless workstation? those things were all the rage back then during the first or second time cloud computing was going to revolutionize everything
>>55565695
>No idea, pulled out of a government office so it doesnt have a hard drive. All the model 60s and 80s had their drives removed too
The hell. Did they have CIA dox on there or something?
>going to look into getting a CF or SD card replacement for them eventually but I've just been busy
Beware, son. Those PS/2 drives are all proprietary. Chances are that said CF/SD card replacements are designed for standard IDE interfaces.
>>55565667
Holy mother of niggers, is my Internet connection fucking itself today. It took about 25 seconds to load this 75k image.
>>55565708
I think they were removed and destroyed for security since they looked like they were auctioned off at one point. I was looking forward to using all original hardware on some of this stuff, but all i've done so far is musical floppy drives with some of the spares I have.
>>55565727
If no drive replacements exist I may have to look into making some as a project some time later on.
>>55565727
>>55565695
Those PS/2s were used to store Hillary Clinton's emails. :^)
>>55565773
>I think they were removed and destroyed for security
They can't just reformat them instead of destroying a rare proprietary hard disk type?
>>55565727
It's pretty standard procedure for government stuff, unfortunately.
I don't think the big-box PS/2s have proprietary drives, though I don't think there are any CF solutions for ESDI either.
you can always fit them with a microchannel SCSI controller though, might even have IDE controllers as well
>>55565773
probably, I had a similar thing going to what you have a couple years back with an old pawn shop (but all the good shit had already been dumped, RIP 9 tons of DEC/IBM big iron) and that's pretty much all the guy did was hang around at surplus auctions
I like smashing **broken** old computers that were worth thousands of dollars in the 90's. Currently using a May 31st, 1994 IBM Model M and I like it, but it's only cleaned and un-restored. $150 in South Ontario if anyone here wants it.
>>55565800
I think you're expecting a little too much out of the government. Why do you think all the smart people go into the private sector? Government employees are mostly welfare babbies who want a job with totally 100% guaranteed security+pension+retirement at like 50 and they don't have to actually do any work. :^)
>>55565800
They were probably destroyed in the early 2000's and thought they were trash. Not worth the time to zero it when they can just send them off to someone to take care of.
The Model 60 and 80 had MFM hard disks which may not have been proprietary. Some PS/2s had ESDI and SCSI drives with proprietary form factors/cable types, but I don't think these did.
>>55565814
>Not worth the time to zero it
Geez, all you gotta do is boot up a DOS floppy and run FORMAT C:. It's not hard.
>>55565800
>>55565811
>>55565814
it takes too damn long to do that kind of work for something that will end up going for pennies at auction anyway
besides, they really weren't all that rare at the time they were auctioned, PS/2s were very successful as fleet systems and you could find disks with that strange ESDI implementation pretty easily and relatively cheaply (even now)
>>55565833
as I recall only the 60s ran MFM disks, 80s were all ESDI (standard cabling) and some later ones were SCSI as well I believe
>>55564792
Can't say no to those old style cases.
>>55565804
>>55565833
>>55565848
Thanks for the info, that backs up the little bit of reading I had done. It appears model 80s had SCSI or ESDI drives and thats about as far as I got. I know some people who could maybe help me find some drives.
>>55565810
No thanks, got a few cheaper locally
>>55565846
>>55565814
By law, they have to destroy them, still do.
Not just format.
>>55565833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_System/2
The original Model 80 did have an MFM drive.
>>55565886
Yeah, mine still has the $7.99 sticker on it from whatever thrift store it came from. How much is this thing really worth? I've seen people dumping similar condition ones for almost $80 on Kijiji while others are above $100 on Ebay
>>55565846
Think of it this way: You're a corporate or government IT employee tasked with disposing of a fleet of 50-100 Pentium 4-based Optiplexes and ThinkCentres. They'll likely fetch jack shit at auction because there will be so fucking many of them, and they potentially have some very sensitive or even classified information on them that could endanger a lot of livelihoods (including your own) if you fucked up.
Now imagine they all weigh about 40-80 pounds each and run proprietary disk controllers and other supporting hardware that you have to prepare a boot disk specifically for, search engines are shit and your network connection is ass anyway.
That's what it felt like to be in charge of a decommissioned PS/2 fleet in the '90s. They were the P4 Optiplexes of their day in the corporate realm, fucking sucks and I'm not even trying to shit on them, I'm just saying that you can't really blame them.
>>55565908
Eugh, I think I remember that now, those first-run PS/2s were ass.
>>55565935
Never underestimate the purchasing power of /mkg/ types, especially those on the Model M hype train.
>>55565583
Are they really that bad? Back when I was like 12 or so my dad brought in a couple old IIes (one normal, one Platinum) with an Apple III monitor, a couple floppy drives, and a bunch of floppies because a a school was throwing them all out.
I had less-than-nil programming ability (the peak of my accomplishments was an angelfire page) and wasn't all that amazing technically at that point (I mean fuck, I was 12) but I still figured out how to get shit running off the floppies. Just seemed like a more annoying version of DOS, which I had played with trying to get emulated 98se up and running on my PPC mac. Granted, I didn't try networking the things or anything but they didn't seem THAT difficult to figure out.
>>55565650
>>55565667
Awwwww yeah that's the good shit right there!
PS/2s are a hunk of shit anyway. Every last goddamn thing in them is proprietary: floppy drives, hard disks, power supplies, memory, you name it.
And here's the truly wonderful part: There's no onboard BIOS setup and you instead need a boot floppy which is specific to each model. It gets even better because each MCA card also has its own setup disk that you have to add to your main configuration floppy.
MCA cards are also hard to find and pricey (except for Token Ring adapters which every PS/2 appears to have shipped with).
t. good doorstop, not good for a lot else
>>55565952
>Are they really that bad?
>Apple
We both know the answer to that question.
>>55565952
>>55564898
This for starters. If you want to use the entire gamut of Apple II software, you'd need DOS 3.2 (for the old original 13 sector disk format), DOS 3.3 (for 16 sector disks) and ProDOS for most all IIe/IIc software. And of course they don't use the same disk formats.
>>55565949
Should I just shill my Kijiji ad on there until some autist sends their mom to buy it?
>>55565998
For comparison, an Atari 8-bit has exactly two disk formats (90k 810 disks and 130k 1050 disks) and the 1050 can read the 810's disks. A Commodore 64, the drives have the DOS in ROM, you just plug them in and turn on the power.
PCs? The last DOS-based version of Windows (ME) can still run DOS 1.x software from 1982.
>>55565952
I'm with you, I bought a II+ for $25 from a highschool classmate way back (okay around 2k9ish) and had no problem using it, it was my first really usable 8-bit system, wasn't a bad runner at all. Mostly just used it for playing games and playing with random number generators in BASIC though.
>>55565973
I find the proprietary nature of the PS/2 rather exciting, they felt like very modern, serious pieces of engineering and PS/2 hardware was top-notch when you didn't have to load in the reference disk every time you booted it. Those disks aren't even really hard to find either, they're archived to hell and back and don't need anything super special to write them.
The only thing I really dislike about my Model 70 is the 60 MB ESDI disk that leaves a little to be desired, any version of OS/2 worth a shit pretty much eats the entire thing, and it can't even run a minimal installation of AIX/386.
The floppy drives in the PS/2s also have reliability issues because they use an all-in-one cable with power and data lines and having the power lines in that close proximity led to overheating and component failure. From the anecdotal evidence I could find online, it seems that PS/2s with busted floppy drives are rather common.
>>55565450
That's also interesting considering the Apple II was mostly relevant in the early 80s and by Reagan's second term, software support was dropping off, yet they sold far more of them in the IIe era than the II+ era.
>>55566225
I think most of the later Apple II sales were to schools rather than private customers.
>>55566250
Yeah, but once they became obsolete there was a big stash of them on the market, sold from places like old schools.
>>55566134
Those were good (but very anecdotal) counterpoints maybe in 1988, but in 2016? IBM parts are no more difficult or expensive to source than third-party alternatives, and most common PSU/mainboard failures are usually cap-related anyway and not really as hard to fix.
>games
PS/2s were never intended for this use case, so it's not all that surprising that XGA isn't well supported. VGA and the 8514 however were, so you wouldn't really be hurting that much.
>>55566186
Not surprised, I've got a Model 30 in storage with a busted drive and I generally have fantastic luck with that kind of stuff.
I remember back when I got a 386 from a flea market (AMD 386/SX board in a generic AT-style case) and they also had a PS/2 Model 50 there. I knew to just keep on walking.
>>55566292
>286 microchannel systems
>>55566186
The Osbornes used this setup and apparently they also had reliability issues with the floppy drives, though some were also due to poor quality control (the controller boards on the drives were plagued by bad solder joints).
Any good places to get or sell old computer parts where actual enthusiasts are? I've got a couple older ones as projects in progress and a couple boxes of misc. parts that I have no need for.
>>55566319
I mean, what the hell. You might as well just stick ISA slots in there and call it a day. It probably would have cost less money to manufacture as well.
>>55566330
Forums for those related systems that parts you have.
>>55566364
Yeah, exactly, that's what they did for the rest of the 286es, I can't remember what the fuck compelled them to stick it on the 50 and 60 though, I think it was supply issues or just an attempt to be competitive in the mid range?
Either way, fucking retarded, especially since it totally gimped the shit out of OS/2 1.x.
A lot of people's only experience with Apple IIs was in the school computer lab where they didn't let you do anything but play Reader Rabbit and Oregon Trail.
>>55566386
The only PS/2s with ISA slots are the Model 25, 30, 35, and 40 and the latter two are really rare and hard to find.
>>55566401
The Apple II did have a disproportionate amount of educational software, most of which hasn't been properly preserved/archived.
>>55566456
Wonder why.
>>55566484
>>55566456
Back in the day, cracker/pirate groups who cracked kiddie eduware were ridiculed by the Apple pirate community. You got a huge stigma for doing that, so most crackers didn't bother.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/reader-rabbit/screenshots
There's no screenshots of the Apple version on here.
Used to play Astro Grover on the C64, but Youtube only has video of the Atari version. Also curiously enough this game is not on the Apple II at all.
IBM also had a rather high amount of 286-based PS/2s even as competitors were switching to 386s. Most likely this was out of fear of stealing minicomputer sales.
>>55562374
I still need to clean the case on my IIE and fix the sticky keyboard
Was in an antique shop a while ago and they had a complete //e system with disk drives, printer, and monochrome monitor. It was plugged in and fully working and I typed a few BASIC commands but I couldn't recall enough of Applesoft to do anything but type a HELLO WORLD program and I think set a pixel on the screen in HGR mode.
Also they wanted $200 for it. Sorry.
>>55562374
I met a bitch named maivs and crossed an oregon trail on that motherfucker. And this is pre-tinder and google maps
>>55566681
Also if you didn't know, Apple IIs will on power up just spin the disk drive endlessly (if there's no disk present) until you hit Ctrl-Reset to drop it into BASIC. If someone else had played with that //e and didn't know that, they'd think it was broken.
I got a shitty Dell mini 10 that has 1.4ghz with a single core and it runs like shit above windows XP, and it's annoying with windows XP.
I wanted to know if I could put windows 2000 on it, but I'm afraid the wifi might not work.
Any ideas? Perhaps a lightweight, non demanding linux distro? Or will the windows 2000 work?
>>55564085
I thought the same thing. Forever. I was nearly what you'd call "troubled youth". The one thing I always appreciated was the honesty of a CPU. Nowadays, the sjw clan is fucking everything up, with their anti meritocracy bullshit. Either you have it or you don't. Computers don't lie. They don't care about your race or creed. Why are sjw groups suchnfucking idiots? I suspect that they're mostly composed of apologetic, spineless whites. Thoughts?
>all the poor bastards who had Apple IIs with green monochrome monitors and never even knew the things can display color
>>55566782
kek
>>55566782
Also Stockholm Syndrome. I remember this time I saw a Usenet post where some autist was complaining that Apple II emulators just display the normal colors and don't let you set it to green because "hurr I used to play X game on the school computer lab with a monochrome monitor I need that feel".
Freaky thing, isn't it? But you can still buy a new Z80 or 65C02 for embedded systems.
>>55566850
Damn. I remember people actually cutting VGA wires blue and red lines to get authentic green screens.
>>55566869
Geez, a modern ARM processor is going to be way easier and more efficient to use, plus 3.3V power instead of 5V.
(Very) Poorfag here but I still want to start a collection. or atleast have a vintage computer. All I have is a 2001 Satellite and a 2005 Thinkpad. How do I start collecting?
>>55566884
This is true and the most likely persistence of Mesozoic-era CPUs like that is because a lot of crap like washing machines and cash registers still uses PCBs designed decades ago and nobody's ever bothered updating them. I mean, how many major advances in cash register tech are there?
>>55566926
find a dump or recycling center that will let you in, and get more money. this isn't a good poor man's hobby unless you luck out.
>>55565973
>Every last goddamn thing in them is proprietary: floppy drives, hard disks, power supplies, memory, you name it.
And there's more: IBM also separated the low, mid-range, and high-end models so all of them have different parts. This was apparently to prevent you from buying cheaper parts meant for a Model 30 or something and installing them in a Model 80.
How expensive are Pre 2000 compatible parts?
>>55565985
anon is no longer 12, but it appears you are.
>>55565450
The Apple II was expensive, up to $2000 in the early 80s ($5000 in 2016 dollars). Apple always charged a disgusting amount for their hardware.
>Steve Wozniak comes up with all these l33t hax0r tricks to get color graphics and whatnot as cheaply as possible
>none of it translates into the purchase price.
Even better was the original Mac 128 which cost $2500 for a computer that was little more than a 68000 with RAM and a couple of TTLs. On top of having single sided floppy drives, monochrome graphics, and 128k of memory. Oh, and not even a numeric keypad.
>>55567062
We all know Apple fucked up with the Mac line, they should have concentrated on the Apple II, like II GS
>>55567148
At least until Steve Jobs was fired and they gave the Mac a hard disk and a usable amount of memory. The Apple II proved harder to kill than Apple thought and it finally took simple technological obsolescence to retire it.
>>55566991
1990-2000 aren't really expensive at all, if that's what you're after. Only the most obscure terminals command any kind of price, but anything pre-1985 had really gone up.
$150 is common for a basic IBM 5150, and from there into the thousands for terminals and earlier machines like the Displaywriter. Forget about most things from the 70s. Even keyboards go for $200 - 500.
>>55567062
Yeah I don't understand either why Apple always charged premium prices and never even once attempted the low end market. The handful of times they did release low end models, it was strictly to bolster sales of the higher end ones.
>>55567169
Yeah yeah I know. Ebay scalpers need to all die in a fire.
>>55567199
Amen.
>>55567199
At least Commodore, TI and Sinclair stuff is somewhat "sane" pricing there.
I get the feeling that won't last long, either.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRS-80-Model-III-Micro-Computer-Radio-Shack-/282093629693?hash=item41ae1730fd:g:mGkAAOSwRQlXfsx8
"Sold as-is, no returns vintage Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3 MicroComputer. When powered on one red light turns on and then turns off. The power cord's prong looks like it was cut and replaced. Does come with cover with a slight rip. Please look at pics before buying. I do not know if it can be fixed but it can be used as parts."
This TRS-80 is probably fully functional and that's normal behavior. If you don't have a bootable disk, it will just sit there at a blank screen until you hit Break+Reset to drop it into BASIC.
Someone needs to drop this poor sod an email explaining that he has to hit Break+Reset.
I notice that TRS-80 CoCos seem to be magically free of scalping and the average price of them on Ebay is only $30-$50.
>>55567247
Wait, if he thinks it's broken and only good for parts, how does he justify charging $90?
>>55567265
I like CoCos but the software library for them sucks. There's very little decent commercial software and it's 90% homebrew junk some neckbeard did in his basement.
>>55567247
Yeah right, tell him how to make it work, then he will charge $250 for it
>>55567247
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38999-TRS-80-Model-III
Per this thread. If you power the computer on and hold Break down, it will go into BASIC. If there's no disk present, it just sits there with a blank screen. If there's a disk in the drive and it's not a bootable one, you'll get a DISKETTE? prompt.
>>55567247
There was another Model III on Ebay, a cassette model, where the seller said "Powers up to CASS? prompt. I assume this is asking for a cassette to boot from. No further testing has been done. $300."
Seriously? Just tap Enter twice to go into BASIC. How hard can it be to figure that out?
Another favorite of mine was a TRS-80 where the seller had a pic of it running with DOSPlus and said "Computer appears to work, there's a disk in the drive (blank?). No further testing done."
>blank disk
>after he just bloody witnessed it booting into DOSPlus
>>55567412
Yeah, I remember that one!
Fucking kek
And the best of all was a Model III with a blown CRT that probably fried the entire innards of the thing. The phosphor on the tube was all charred and stuff. Amazingly, someone bought it (it was $50) because apparently it had a low serial number.
>>55567422
I mean, come on. You turned it on and you heard the disk drive working, you dumb idiot.
>>55567430
That I don't get either. What's the attraction of low serial numbers? How does a low serial number make the thing somehow "better"?
Seriously, /g/, the fuck do I do with these?
>>55567062
There was nothing wrong with a monochrome GUI system in 1984, that was pretty much the standard, and I would take a Mac's crisp, clean and resolution-efficient interface over some horrifyingly blotchy four-color garbage any day of the week.
The floppy disk and RAM however were definitely inexcusable for a 68k system. The Mac could have been something long before the Plus (and the Macintosh II) finally brought some real capability to it.
>>55567148
>Apple fucked up with the Mac line
The Mac line was all that kept them alive, 8-bits were on the way out by the late '80s, and rightfully so, because they were garbage that only had popularity because they were affordable, nobody who could afford not to was sticking with that shit when PCs, Macs, Amigas et al. beat the ever living shit out of them for everything but games.
It also didn't help that the II didn't have a real niche by then, it was just a fleet shitbox for schools, while a Macintosh and a LaserWriter was one of the best mass-market desktop publishing solutions around.
>>55567191
55 or die. They didn't care about the low end where the margins were thin and the buyers were stingy, they wanted business customers.
And you're also forgetting that they did have low-end offerings like the IIc plus, Macintosh Classic, and the entire Performa range.
>>55567393
This one btw was an estate sale from a deceased NASA engineer. Which is funny that it'd be a cassette model since a NASA engineer sure better be able to afford disk drives. It did also have the original sales info written on the case with marker saying it was purchased in Fredericksburg, VA in December 1982 and a description of some software and other peripherals he bought with it along with the purchase price (about $1300).
Actually the fact that the seller only wanted $300 for it is quite reasonable since if this were an Apple II, he'd be asking like $3000 for it solely on the grounds that a NASA engineer owned it and it had the sales info preserved.
>>55562374
>I love restoring old computers, don't you?
yes but i don't enjoy looking for drivers for the old computers
I love put old outdated drives in and fooling around.
Like when my IDE drive died and i used a mini_SD card to get it working again shit was great when it rebooting into my sd card.
:D
>>55567456
>but but it was one of the first
fucking sperglords
>>55567457
Well, it's time you start development on your x86 clone
went into a thrift store they had an apple 2 with a $200 price tag on it i really hate these faggots overpricing everything
>>55567456
>>55567542
>being this mad about people liking something you don't
Maybe they're in it for the history, maybe they like the idea of having the absolute latest and greatest of a particular time, maybe they just don't give a shit and want dick waving cred, if they've got the money, who gives a shit? The purpose of disposable income is happiness.
>>55567593
>being this mad about people liking something you don't
Mad? kek, they amuse me and I find them stupid
>>55567593
>maybe they like the idea of having the absolute latest and greatest of a particular time
They are collector faggots who don't know shit about the hardware and don't even use it, just collect it. Ruining it for everyone else, with stupid prices and stocks of machines in boxes for nobody else to use. Greatest? You would want a latter revision to have the greatest of a particular model.
>>55567567
What was it? A II+? IIe? IIc?
>>55567462
>It also didn't help that the II didn't have a real niche by then, it was just a fleet shitbox for schools
Fairly accurate. The Apple II's golden age was in 1980-83 after which sales and software support gradually tapered off.
>>55567729
>they amuse me and I find them stupid
Some would say the same about us for running old trashy shitboxes somebody threw out twenty years ago when you can buy Core 2 hardware for pocket change that can emulate all of it faster than the original hardware.
>>55567803
How in any way does wanting some early examples of a particular piece of equipment imply that at all?
>>55567887
>Some would say the same about us for running old trashy shitboxes somebody threw out twenty years ago
Do I look like I'm advocating running a Packard Bell 486 PC? :^)
>>55567898
Well, you are in an old hardware thread.
>>55567902
Well, he didn't specify what shitboxes he meant so I assume he meant a Packard Bell since that's the definition of shitbox.
>>55567887
>How in any way does wanting some early examples of a particular piece of equipment imply that at all?
Years of experience with people like that.
>can emulate all of it faster than the original hardware
Yes and no.
All in all, people using the hardware are getting at least experience, collectors just get boners for their delusion
>>55567890
That's interesting because it shows that the Commodore 64 was the only non-PC/Mac to ever crack the 1 million annual sales mark.
>>55567912
kek'd
>>55567879
>>55567462
In fact a lot of game devs like Origin, SSI, and EA actively supported the Apple II right up to the end of the 80s.
>>55567945
As you would expect, considering they were still a reasonably large user base. Games are not enough to save a platform though, as the Amiga shows.
>>55567945
That doesn't mean it was still relevant though. As the graph indicates, C64 sales were always at least 50% higher than the Apple II even in the late 80s when both platforms were declining in importance.
>>55567961
That graph is slightly misleading because it shows Apple II sales as having gone up to 1993, however the only "Apple II" left at that point was the IIe card for the Mac LC.
>>55567961
True BUT Commodore also had the huge European market which kept the computer alive years longer. Amazingly, it took Commodore's bankruptcy in the spring of 94 to finally put the C64 to rest.
>>55567932
Yeah the Apple II only reached 1 million units for one year, in 1983, while the C64 sold 1.3 million-1.5 million units for four straight years.
>>55568003
Again though, the C64 had a major European presence. Apple basically just had the US market. Few Apple IIs were sold in Europe and those that were were strictly business computers.
>>55567890
I notice this chart doesn't list the Atari 8-bits and when it says "TRS-80", there's no specification of what TRS-80 line it's referring to. Model 1/3/4? Model II/16/6000? CoCo?
>>55567973
>Wikipedia
>>55567890
This is bullshit
I have a box I want to use as my ancient media rescue machine. It has a 3.5" floppy, Zip, and optical drive, but I would like to add a 5.25" internal floppy because I have have a few boxes of them. My dad sold our dual 5.25" floppy drive a long time ago. I'm sure most of the 5.25" floppies I have are toast, but it seems like a good thing to have around. I've seen used internal 5.25" floppy drives on Fleabay. Should I go with Mitsumi or Teac? They're both similarly priced.
>>55567803
>You would want a latter revision to have the greatest of a particular model
In that vein, a Platinum IIe would be the best Apple II to have. All the bells and whistles are there: 65C02, bug fixed ROMs, built-in numeric keypad, 128k of memory, etc. Yet they're not worth near as much as an original II/II+ which are far more limited machines.
>>55568026
Right, when it says the IIe was discontinued in November 93 that's an asspull because they're counting the IIe card for the Mac when the real IIe would have been dropped some time before that (not sure when, but I guess 1990-91).
>>55568050
But anon, the IIe is the final revision, aka latest revision available. Exactly as stated.
>>55568050
Well, the II+ does have more sentimental appeal for having been out when the Apple II was at the peak of its powers. Platinum IIes were just a fleet computer for the local elementary school to run Reader Rabbit on.
One of the last commercial Apple II games released was Centauri Alliance from Broderbund, programmed by the great Michael Cranford. This huge six-disk space RPG (also on the C64) was sadly ignored due to having come out in 1990.
>>55567923
But I guess what I'm saying is that you can collect and still actually use hardware, sometimes it's nice to have something rare or otherwise of historical interest to go along with it.
I don't really give much of a shit on that level personally though, but I do tend to check date codes since I'm into high-end shit, kind of takes the wind out of the "five figure experience" when you've got some cheapo later revision that lived in the shadow of something greater.
>>55568093
Well, the later short board C64Cs are definitely better to have than the breadbox (less power consumption, cooler, and more reliable) but lack the same sentimental quality.
>>55568093
>cheapo later revision
Topkek, you know what revisions are, right?
Most Apple II games also exist for the Atari 8-bit and C64 and if you do play them, you'll be pretty underwhelmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcyBlxTzhYs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Psw6C9g4Hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDwjctkF5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxLPuND19uY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeZ0Jbv0tCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-XjaYvt6G0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yss_vCX6IG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlQXceCpMqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atEug-jQ9zk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfSq94Kj0oI
>>55568093
That's exactly collector logic, they don't use their hardware, so they don't care if it's a shitty revision what fails easily or is worse than the latter, even performance wise.
>>55562374
I sure do, anon
Now, there was only a very short window in which the Apple II was the best gaming computer and by 1983 the C64 had definitely overtaken it. In fact it would have ended earlier since the Atari 8-bits came out in 1979, but Atari were Jews and didn't release any programming info for the first 2-1/2 years so nobody could program them except in BASIC.
Original Apple II games also seem to be hard to find and expensive while C64 games are plentiful on Ebay and cheap. I'm paying $500 for Scott Adams Pirate Adventure? No I'm not.
>>55568211
It does seem that Scott Adams adventures bring good money. Not all of them of course, but original Apple II and TRS-80 copies always sell for $$$.
>>55568211
There were only half as many Apple IIs in existence as C64s so I can assume the sales of its games would follow proportionately.
>>55568176
Nothing "special" but I do like the O2 and Indy
>>55568283
Fuck, I just choked,
Blimey-o-crikey-O'Riley...
>>55568283
free shipping though
>>55568224
Apple II adventures and RPGs always seem to sell for grossly inflated prices.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xapple+ii+ultima.TRS0&_nkw=apple+ii+ultima&_sacat=0
>>55568283
Mother of God... I would sell him my II's for half the price if he thinks they are worth 30k, he will think he can get them sold with profit, kek
>>55568283
>84 watching
WTF
>>55568283
>>55568301
The Rev 0 I think was the one that would just power on to a screen full of garbage and you have to push Reset to put it in the machine language monitor. They also had a toggle power switch instead of a rocker switch.
They also had a case made with a slightly different plastic molding process than used later and it had no vent holes which caused them to sag from overheating. But this is obviously the later case and I can assume virtually all of them were replaced.
>>55568344
They probably just want to see if it actually sells.
>>55568283
>using Google Chrome
>>55567462
>The Mac line was all that kept them alive
Learn about some Apple II's before you shitpost, there were not just 8bit's, also the Mac lacked all kinds of expansions, the Mac was exactly a dumb user machine, useless for anyone actually wanting a computer.
Probably one of the most boring threads in a long time zzzzz
>>55562374
No I hate it.
[spoiler]But I hate the emptiness I get inside after I succeed even more[/spoiler]
>>55568166
>they don't use their hardware, so they don't care if it's a shitty revision what fails easily or is worse than the latter
Have you ever considered that for most it really just isn't that big a deal and they'd rather have a more fun or authentic experience than stress over some inconsequential additions or tweaks that have no meaningful impact on what they want to do?
>performance
It's ancient shit. Unless you've got an edge case title you're absolutely itching to play that won't emulate correctly, chances are you're buying old hardware for the experience, not the performance, especially with fucking 8-bits of all things.
>>55568350
>>55568283
There were only about 30,000 of the original Apple IIs and the Rev 0 accounts for about 6000 of those. They'd been discontinued before Apple introduced the Disk II.
>>55568464
>they'd rather have a more fun or authentic experience than stress over some inconsequential additions or tweaks that have no meaningful impact on what they want to do
Exactly, so why the fuck are they looking for just low serial models?
>chances are you're buying old hardware for the experience
Exactly, so why the fuck are they looking for just low serial models?
In the end, they are collector fags and don't care or know better, they don't want use the hardware, they collect it.
>>55568503
>>55568350
The Revision 0 boards also can display just four colors, but later modifications allowed them to display 16 colors in low-res mode. Hi-res graphics mode was still four colors until the II+. They also have a raised instead of a flat power light on the keyboard. As one other note, the NTSC burst on Rev 0 boards is active all the time while later boards added a color killer circuit to disable it in text mode which eliminates color fringing.
>>55568350
I think only the first maybe 100-200 production Apple IIs had the ventless case.
>>55568091
It's also puzzling why a game released in friggin' 1990 was only on the Apple II and C64.
>>55568383
> there were not just 8bit's
The only non-8-bit II was the 16-bit IIgs, which was a budget system that spent its lifetime in the shadow of the far more powerful and expandable (and fully 32-bit) Mac II.
>also the Mac lacked all kinds of expansions
And the II lacked PageMaker, the LaserWriter and a graphical operating system that didn't look like the twisted product of a child vomiting chunky pastel paint and simultaneously shitting all over the screen. The 128k and 512k were indeed far from what they could have been, but the Plus and NuBus Macs closed that gap with ease.
>the Mac was exactly a dumb user machine, useless for anyone actually wanting a computer.
Yeah, fuck all those dumb publishers and artists and accountants and developers and all the other professionals that bought into that stupid macshit, the II has expansion slots! And a decade-old chip that was a toy even when it was new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfrYOWlKJ_g
>>55568707
Ah, ah, ah, ah. The IIgs was more powerful than the Mac when it came out in 86...except that they purposely kneecapped it with a 2Mhz CPU to not steal Mac sales.
Having said that, the IIgs was not a major marketplace factor and they were hardly seen anywhere outside of school computer labs.
>>55568224
They also released Scott Adams adventures on cartridge for the VIC-20 (five of them). The ROMs of these will work on any Commodore 8-bit (perhaps being adjusted a bit for different memory locations) because they're text adventures and they also use entirely the kernal routines for all keyboard/screen/disk/tape access.
>>55568721
>The IIgs was more powerful than the Mac when it came out in 86
The only real advantage it had was color and expansion, an edge it had for maybe a couple months before the Mac II absolutely destroyed it on both of those fronts. There's also no real way that little 16-bit chip could hold a candle to the much more advanced 32-bit (though still 16-bit externally) 68000, it simply wasn't happening. This isn't even taking into account the peripheral advantages of the Plus, especially hard disks, something which would have required an additional and likely expensive card to match with a IIgs.
However, there's a good, and important thing you can definitely say about it, and that's that it was cheap. A Plus was not, a Mac II or SE was especially not.
No, don't really give a shit desu. I'd rather build new stuff with microcontroller.
>>55568707
>Yeah, fuck all those dumb publishers and artists and accountants and developers and all the other professionals that bought into that stupid macshit
Yeah, because those people where using different machines at the time and not Macs
>>55568801
The IIgs was more powerful when the Mac it came out, you can't deny that.
>>55568907
Like...? PCs weren't very good for publishing, neither was the Amiga. High-end solutions from the likes of Sun and Xerox were prohibitively expensive for all but the biggest companies. You couldn't really beat a Plus/512k and a LaserWriter at the price point.
Number crunching is a stretch, but there was a lot of office productivity software around in the early years, pretty logical to assume there was a market for it.
>>55568918
The 68000 was in a league of its own, that hotted-up 6502 isn't going to come near it.
>>55569014
>The 68000 was in a league of its own, that hotted-up 6502 isn't going to come near it.
But the IIgs was still more powerful, you're forgetting the IIgs's design. Where the Mac was just a CPU with RAM.
>>55569014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h4tepFbMso
>>55569055
What design, exactly?
>>55569080
Pretty sure I never really praised the original Compacts.
>>55569178
>>55569138
Kek, sure. You even mentioned the Plus and 512k, except memory they have the same specs as the original Compacts, no difference there.
>>55569217
I mentioned the 512k in the context of the LaserWriter.
The Plus is not identical to the 128/512k, the most important difference being the addition of a SCSI bus to give it the mass storage options the first compacts so desperately needed to be truly competitive as a business system.
>>55568624
Quick look at Cranford's history, looks like he developed primarily on the C64 and Apple II; (it appears the Bard's Tale didn't even get an Atari 8bit port.) So he was probably able to port between the two easily. Broderbund probably didn't see it worthwhile to port to anything else, even IBM clones.
>>55567890
Looking at this chart, which line is Amiga? The purple line goes back to 1975 ... is that Other? (then what is the thick blue line?) Dashed appears to be C64.
>>55567462
Wasn't the Lisa a 16-bit or semi 32-bit computer?
>>55569683
The Amiga has to be the green one. It starts at 1985. Looks like the labelling is a bit off.
>>55569815
Yeah, they both end at the same time with the C64
>>55567890
Android is an OS and can Installed in different platforms. Macintosh nowadays is a standard x64 System and where is x86? PC isn't a platform, it's a category. Aren't iPhone and iPad sharing the same platform? What happens with Amiga and others?
Not a good chart...
>>55569884
I agree, its a fairly stupid chart
>>55565401
LGR?
>>55570050
Kek'd, no way it's Clint
It isn't beige enough
>>55569884
>>55569901
how can platforms be defined? by CPU architecture? So it should be:
Z80, MOS-6502, MOS-6510, 8080, 8088, 80286, 80x86(32-bit), x64, Motorola 68000, PowerPC, DEC Alpha, ARM... and some more... did i miss something significant?
>>55569815
I figured Green is the Atari ST.
I suppose the Amiga can be the second purple line. Looking closer, it appears to emerge where the thick blue line ends. (I originally thought it overlapped with it.) the first purple I suppose might be Other, ending around 1983. Still don't know what the thick blue one is.
>>55570270
No, by compatibility.
>>55570297
Compatibility of what? Hardware components? Software?
>>55570281
think you're right. That nose-dive around 1991 is depressing.
>>55570374
a tear running down my face... my ST was in daily use till 97, then i jumped on the windows train, only to leave it instantly for linux.
>>55567457
looks neet
>>55569815
>>55569880
I think Amiga is purple from 85 onwards, C64 is the dotted line, Atari ST geen and thick blue or first purple is other.
>>55570478
Missed the photo.
Yes, I do but not old ancient shit like that. I like restoring early thousands Dell type of shit.
>>55570478
>>55570622
They were fairly underpowered machines, topped easily by the Macs and Amigas at the time.
Only actually good Atari was the Falcon.
>>55570662
Indeed. But I loved GEM and it did a great job for what I mainly used it. Writing, CAD and some simple Basic programming. The big plus was, the disks are full compatible with x86, so it was easy to share and collaborate.
>>55570778
GEM/TOS was a seriously pussy OS. Maybe OK for BASIC programming, also didn't Amiga support PC floppies too?
>>55570829
Yes, I think it was part of later versions of Workbench as standard. Before that you could use 3rd party software to do it. You could use 720k MS-DOS floppies on standard DD drives at 1.44mb ones on HD drives.
>>55570829
Amiga was fantastic, but Workbench looked something childish to me... bottom line: I simply followed Jack...
>>55570980
>Workbench looked something childish to me
I don't think there was another that powerful OS at the time except the Unix family itself.
You could actually run an entire Unix subsystem inside Workbench, not to mention it hard a powerful DOS/Shell itself.
But yeah, not judging you for following Tramiel
>>55570980
GEM looked like puke though.
>>55571530
kek
>>55571530
It was a clean GUI, that worked perfect with the flicker free monochrome monitor in high resolution. But yeah, the green in color mode is awful.
My computer pretty much belongs in a museum, and I still use it as my main machine.
>core 2 duo
>>55571702
if it works, why not...? what OS do you use?
>>55571733
gantuuuu
>>55571733
Arch, because I don't want to pay for a Windows license, and it uses much less RAM than what windows would use.
It's pretty comfy with openbox, and Chrome works well on it.
>>55571765
Linux is always a good choice. for me it was mainly suse linux until i found lmde2 since then, i use both.
But in respect to this thread, you should try corel linux, dld or caldera openlinux. if hardcore, try to find and install LST.
>>55571043
holy shit thats pretty, and to think it was even before windows 95
>>55572069
It's a user-designed set of icons and backgrounds. I think MagicWB first appeared around 1994 or so. There were others such as NewIcons which were a lot more colourful and actually not a million miles away from the simplified style today.
>>55572267
Actually 1992, you can see it on the picture too, top right.
>>55568801
>an edge it had for maybe a couple months before the Mac II absolutely destroyed it on both of those fronts
If you wanted to pay $7000.
>>55571043
>that Egyptian icon thingie
Remember in the 90s when ancient Egypt was cool?
>>55572954
Kek'd, yeah, now I remember those 10k machines. Could have told him that before.
>>55573048
Those were the times.
The first low cost color Mac was the LC in 1991.
>>55567462
The Mac 128 was so basic that there's no way the cost of parts and assembly justified charging $2500.
