Lets face it, webdev is cancer and most 'serious' programming these days is done by Pajeet-tier code monkeys or literal street shitters, while the actual wizards go into networking.
>requires knowledge of both software and hardware
>in charge of millions of shekels worth of servers and equipment
>have to plan and set up everything based on projections and later patterns
>responsible for how millions of people access your company's services
>have to balance accessibility with security
>have to account for legacy software on thousands of user machines
>have to stay in the know about the latest vulnerabilities
>turd-world skids and ching chongs always trying to fuck with your shit
>work in realtime when something goes wrong
>can't be replaced by automation or incompetent diversity hires
How can code monkeys even compete?
>pic related, some programmer's soon to be replacement that he'll have to train
>>55307827
i've been a system admin, a network admin, a programmer, and now i study computability in academia.
every trade is retardedly easy. networking, systems administration, systems architecture. programming. it's all watered down crap. the only challenge left in the world is in academia, pushing the boundaries of the state of the science of computation.
>>55307955
oh, and i also worked as an "Intrusion Analyst" for 3 years at a major cyber security firm who's name rhymes with firefly
I'm a programmer.
I've made various attempts to understand networking and I failed miserably.
So yeah. As far as I'm concerned, it's wizard stuff.
>>55308287
Anything in particular that eludes you?
Used to work as a Network Admin,
Work in software development now.
Have degree in Systems Security.
It's all fucking easy, just find the company who requires the least effort out of you.
>>55308287
Funny, im aiming for my CCNA right now and programming seems more difficult to me.
>>55308303
The whole thing eludes me.
I read about some networking topic, any topic, and it seems easy. Then when I apply that knowledge, nothing works, and I have no idea why, and I have no idea how to figure out.
A silly example is when I bought a cheapass router to extend my WiFi range. I looked up some instructions and followed it to the letter. When I connected my stuff, the most amazing shit started happening, it was as if my phone was connected via ethernet and my computer's wired connection didn't work anymore and nothing made any sense
I gave up and my range is still shit to this day
The true wizard is good at both.
It's unfair to paint webdevs all as cancer, as it is an excellent intro into the industry and most of 4chan is mid twenties or younger.
>>55308384
same
true wizard knows most fields and shit not just one
>>55308370
Programming is absolutely piece of cake compared to this network stuff.
You can go beyond the impossible and do absolute archmage shit like network programming. I was trying to reverse engineer a phone game's network protocol the other day. Thank god they were lazy as shit and communication was via JSON. Setting up the fucking OS to capture the packets was hard enough
>>55308384
webdev is becoming this casual field though, there are some "webdevs" that are simply operators of pre-made highly customizable stuff.
>>55308377
That seems like on of the easiest things to do though. I mean, you literally only have to plug it in via Ethernet and connect with wifi for the bare minimum. Just make sure you don't have a conflicting address for both router/hub and extender.
>>55307827
>Are networkfags the ultimate wizards of tech?
considering the internet has degenerated to analogs of brick and mortar establishments, and between those and beaurocracies being your largest employers, no
I'm beginning to think MBAs, etc are more intelligent than keyboard jockeys considering they essentially program people and organizations for a few minutes of the day and spend the rest enjoying social hedonism while keyboard jockeys do the rest of the work for them then go home and bitch about it on 4chan as their guts sink into the folds of their sitting posture and their hands and eyes slowly degenerate
I'm sure you can justify that with some calivnistic attitude towards your work, but none of you actually came up with this stuff and 99% of you are pushing around algorithms and stacks other neckbeards came up with in the 70s....
>>55307827
Guess im a wizard, its not so bad but its reallyreally helpful to learn the history of networking first. You also need to practice, which is hard to do outside of schooling simply because most big business networks are already set up and maintaining makes it easy to forget. Nobody is going to let a noob build their network from scratch if they have a real business needs and not home office style.
Coding is doable solo and entirely online nowadays, webdev too, sysadmins and network admins will be around for a while, but its not a field with an easy entrypoint, which is why it probably feels so out of reach. Doctors put me on their level and are very much amazed at what I do for them, but im equally amazed at what they can do, so its all perspective.
>>55308551
if you understand the fundamentals of computation, all of those "algorithms and stuff" are just the next logical step to take from what you know. if you know x, and you can do x, and it makes sense that to get to z, you just need to do y.
>>55308632
Those doctors see you as a helping hand in an industry, same as doctors in general.
We help them do their job properly, securly and without any headaches. They know technology is now part of their every day work and they need people like us to help maintain that order.
>>55308757
that's great, but currently biology dicates our computational needs and unless there's a super sekret matrix hedon palace I've yet to discover, I'm under the impression that social manipulators are having a more fun time doing their work than electron pushers
>>55308808
Sounds about right, the value and skill of our work helps us be on the same level, our troubleshooting steps are not far off a doctors diagnosis methods at all. It makes us higher in the indusrty food chain. Janitors are important but anyone can clean, It does not take years of practice to do effectively and the value of what we deal with is very important, doctors are responsible for lives, we are responsible for the (big)money and security and data of personal information, im just as HIPA compliant (and non disclosure) as any doc, I can look at medical records when needed (almost never, but all data must go somewhere), so in a sense we really are amomg the elite in the T of STEM field.
>>55308837
ok, fuck you too, faggot
>>55307827
>>55308287
This. Networking is black magic to me. I don't know how 1s and 0s in my operating system get translated to signals in a copper coaxial cable. I can't conceptualize what ports and sockets physically are or what that has to do with the above. It seems like they're just software or files that feed data to the network adapter which translates the 1s and 0s into Wi-Fi or whatever.
>>55307827
network engineers do not do approximately half of the shit that you say they do.
>I'm a sysadmin
>>55308010
I know a guy who was really smart that worked at fire eye, he used to work for my dad somewhere else. He recently quit because he said they were all idiots.
>>55308377
That isn't even close to enterprise stuff.
>while the actual wizards go into networking.
Nice try, Cisco
>>55307827
Im a programmer, networking was so fucking easy i couldnt avoid to cringe over the fact i had to take networking curriculum to fullfill computer engeneering degree
I think devops pays more until you get to the tippy toppest of CCIE CCAr networking.
>>55311928
You are probably only talking about the most basest networking shit. Networks get very complex when you start factoring in multiple sites across and enterprise.
We just bought a company that had their network setup by one of their engineers, used a bunch of daisy chains and shit like that, they never figured out why they always had broadcast storms.
>>55311928
Evaluations were done in pair because it was allegedly way too complex and time consuming for one person in the given time, turns out i refused to work with a partner, finished finals first and with a+
Can I just mess with sockets or do I have to go full wizard?
>>55307827
Networking is only hard because of artificial difficult introduced by shitty Cisco/Fortinet/CheckPoint/Juniper gear that sucks ass and has you do everything *their way* instead of just following common networking protocols. TCP/IP is pretty goddamn straightforward once you get down to it. The difficulty is in the management of these shit-tier devices that always exist in enterprise environments.
>>55308423
>Setting up the fucking OS to capture the packets was hard enough
Nigga waht? I don't think you get to talk about how "hard" things are when you could barely figure out how to set up a simple phone proxy
>>55308423
>Thank god they were lazy as shit and communication was via JSON
And that they didn't encrypt the packets.
>>55307827
>requires knowledge of both software and hardware
Fuck no it doesn't require knowledge of hardware outside of how radios work, the rest is all theory about protocols. Anyone employed in a network field is making money from their certs and ability to configure Cisco gear (ios is the shittiest thing every created).
>in charge of millions of shekels worth of servers and equipment
Overpriced gear.
>have to plan and set up everything based on projections and later patterns
True for the most part.
>responsible for how millions of people access your company's services
Meaningless; you could say the same thing about roadwork.
>have to balance accessibility with security
Not as hard as it sounds, and not unique to newtorking.
>have to account for legacy software on thousands of user machines
Core wise that's not a concern, and it relates more the the above then anything else.
>have to stay in the know about the latest vulnerabilities
Not at all. Depending on what you're actually responsible for, the most you'd ever do is change some firewall rules (which is handled by your vendor if you're a huge company anyway).
>turd-world skids and ching chongs always trying to fuck with your shit
Same applies to anyone with a public address.
>work in realtime when something goes wrong
True, but not unique to networking.
>can't be replaced by automation or incompetent diversity hires
Half true. The certification system is entrenched, and the system management intentionally obtuse (you get the certs for job security, and Cisco overprices everything because they have a cert system). You could be replaced if it wasn't intentionally setup to make you irreplaceable.
Essentially, CCNA / CCIE etc are the Italian mechanics of yesteryear. One day SDN will overtake local network management, only the core providers will remain recognizable as they are today (HE, AT&T, Cogent, Bell, etc).
Also, there's no wizardry to it aside from playing golf with your Cisco sales rep.
>>55308287
Implement a TCP/IP stack and things will become more clear.
>>55308287
This, I pass the networking module every semester by the skin of my teeth.
My last exam was thankfully only five questions, each question worth 10% of my overall grade.
The first problem to solve was one of the machine had an incorrect IP address, the rest of the problems were complex and wizardy.
That first question was a godsend, I needed 10% to pass.
I know a ton of people got it wrong even though it was pretty much right clicking the device, and changing one number of the IP address.
>>55308010
whose*
>>55308303
not him but, i've tried getting into networking, especially winserver side.
Fucking shit just won't work randomly, office power trips, server is disconnected. IP stays the same client stays the same, few more restarts and it fixes itself.
Another was the recent hell in a new company i just went it. They all had win7 or win8 by default then the previous IT admin fuck didnt even bothered to disable auto updates, and users just accepts all kind of shit that includes win10.
The company's printer no longer works, the network configuration is fucked upside down, the server no longer detects the other PC, the products we have no longer supports it. Client keeps calling about windows10 when i'm just the guy who is supposed to handle the internal IT stuff.
>>55312989
FYI, those aren't networking issues, those are Windows issues.
>>55312989
I honestly think you need some form of autism or something that will make you love networking.
Thats the vibe I get from all my lecturers and all my classmates who are good at it.
Theres one Arab fella who never attends classes or lecturers yet when there is an exam he aces it.
He also makes a killing doing peoples projects for them.
I am jelly, I wish I could understand networking.
>>55313030
which is why i "tried".
Should i get a cert or just keep trying out "network" without touching anything windows stuff ?
>>55313034
b..but...from what i see its the network autism that brings da cash. I guess i can't get that attention strength unless i'm taught from young.
>>55313053
Oh you'll know what's going on if you get a CCNA, but it's likely more trouble than it's worth if you don't plan to be involved heavily in "networking" for at least 5 years. You best quick fix is to do some reading (try TCP/IP The Protocols 2nd Edition, or any Linux networking books) and run wireshark. If things are good and truly fucked on a single location network it's probably a bad switch config (maybe spanning tree issues it's a big multi switch network).
>>55313159
>likely more trouble than it's worth if you don't plan to be involved heavily in "networking" for at least 5 years
whoa man, so my "trying" is pretty light then.
Well looks like i shuld at least keep trying on unix based network. Ironically working in an environment using windows only, win network just makes me mad all the time.
>>55311879
who does your dad work for?
