What if Apple File System (APFS) becomes the main file system for Linux, replacing ext4?
APFS contains most of the good features in ZFS, and is specifically designed for SSDs.
In addition, Apple promised to release detailed specification for others to write their own drivers for APFS.
autists won't switch from ext4 until the next best thing has been in production for a decade
also
>trusting apple to make a coherent filessystem
>>55128242
>implying that the choice of any MODERN file system matters
Just don't use fat32 or something like that and you're fine.
>>55128321
lol wincucks btfo
Microsoft isn't making ReFS (NTFS successor containing most of the innovative ZFS features) spec open while Apple has promised to open the specs.
Apple has yet to make their position clear on patent issues (will Apple sue OSS vendors for patent infringement if their distro ships with APFS drivers?), but I imagine they will be pressed on it sooner or later.
>>55128740
APFS will have open source aspects.
It's not confirmed yet if it's going to be fully open source or just parts of it.
>>55128242
> What if
Never. It is non-free and patented by Apple.
> to write their own drivers for APFS.
Okay, what if NTFS will be the main Linux FS? It's not going to happen.
>>55128318
> >trusting apple to make a coherent filessystem
This.
>>55128572
He's right. If anything, btrfs have more chances to crash an entire virtualization server with its snapshots feature (happened with my coworker).
>>55128763
HFS+'s obvious issues aside, it has run on billions of devices and never caused any wide spread issue.
>>55128242
>not knowing about btrfs
/thread
>>55128242
With HFS+ in their track record? I have zero confidence it'll be better than ZFS. And if it's not strictly BETTER than ZFS I can't think of a single reason to give it any attention. Licensing (a.k.a. the only reason btrfs is a thing) won't be more compatible, feature set won't be better, and it hasn't spent the time in production machines proving its trustworthiness. APFS will be interesting to see in the scope of OSX, but is completely irrelevant outside that.
>>55128947
brtfs is still very unstable if you use storage pool.
Everyone hating HFS+, what exactly are your complaints? I have used it for numerous years with zero issue.
>>55128904
This.
The filesystem has never been and never will be an issue on facebooking toddler toy machines.
>>55129251
>m-muh anecdotal evidence
>>55129270
epik memes, summerfag
>>55129302
>uses dumbed down toddler toys on a technology board
>calls someone else summer
>>55129251
They are just repeating what other people said. I'm serious, >90% of the people here saying that HFS+ is shit have no fucking clue why or about file systems in general. They will probably say some generic shit like "It corrupts files!" without any more insights. It's just yet another thing they remembered to shit on Apple like every other retard on /g/.
>>55129191
FUD. The news company I work for is utilizing a large (≈3-4 petabytes) btrfs array for it's deep but liquid media archive.
>>55129341
2 rupees have been deposited in your shit wiping hands Rajeesh.
>>55129331
The meme machine just won't quit! He can't even come up with an original let alone legitimate complaint for Apple devices.
>>55129369
Come on, you know it's true.
>>55129374
The meme machine just won't quit! He can't even come up with an original let alone useful purpose for Applel toys.
>>55128242
>What if Apple File System (APFS) becomes the main file system for Linux, replacing ext4?
Not sure if troll
ZFS license is incompatible with GPL, there has been a shitstorm ongoing because Ubuntu started offering native Linux support for it
Now, if you said btrfs I'd agree as a superior choice
>>55129402
See you can't do anything but spam the same age old nonsense and reuse people's arguments against them. You're fucking pathetic.
>>55129275
you're going to regurgitate Linus's post
then someone (let's say me) will ask if these data corruption issues are super common (e.g. happening very regularly) or simply guaranteed in the same way that the sun is guaranteed to explode someday.
then you're going to say it's guaranteed to happen somewhat often, but not constantly
then i'll ask why the millions of MBP users out there aren't dealing with OS X falling apart like it was made of sand, or all of their files getting corrupted, if it's supposed to happen somewhat often
then you'll stop replying because you've apparently got better things to do than follow through with an argument.
okay so let's just skip to the last bit: why is OS X not coming apart at the seams if HFS+ is sort of corrupting files on an ongoing basis? or are you going to walk it back to earlier and say that it's actually not happening that often?
basically my question is why does this matter if it's not empirically affecting OS X users.
>>55129275
there's a difference between anecdotal vs ????, and empirical vs rational. HFS+ might rationally corrupt files, and we might agree that's bad, but if empirically the rate at which it corrupts files is so low as to have no effect on users over as many as 5+ years, then who cares?
>>55129444
See you can't do anything but spam the same age old nonsense and reuse Pajeet's shills for them. You're fucking pathetic.
>>55129460
>why the millions of MBP users out there aren't dealing with OS X falling apart like it was made of sand, or all of their files getting corrupted
Not like anyone would notice on a machine dedicated to browsing and updating facebook.
>>55129468
My point exactly. Come back when you're not only old enough to post here but capable of arguing like an adult.
>>55128242
>In addition, Apple promised to release detailed specification for others to write their own drivers for APFS.
Unless they release it under the GPL or a BSD license, it has zero chances of happening >>55129270
It has corrupted the few things they have on their machines, more than once
>>55129460
>then i'll ask why the millions of MBP users out there aren't dealing with OS X falling apart like it was made of sand, or all of their files getting corrupted, if it's supposed to happen somewhat often
A lot of them are, a cursory google search will show this
I have a hard drive that's been going strong since 1999, a lot of anons report having even older hard drives still working, it doesn't mean all hard drives will go strong after 17 years
>>55129468
>>55129444
when autism finds two mirrors.
>>55129490
Well, they would.
>>55129027
>With HFS+ in their track record?
HFS is an impressive bodge. They weren't really in a position to just start developing a new file system from scratch at the time and then it just stuck around too long after the ZFS deal collapsed.
>>55129515
epik
>>55129353
Enjoy your imminent data loss.
>>55129251
Pretty much everything APFS is supposed to have, HFS+ didn't. Sparse file support, no more byte swapping, higher time resolution, etc.
>>55129431
APFS has fully open spec.
You can build fully GPL implementation of APFL drivers, allowing Linux to have kernel-level support for it without breaking GPL.
>>55129431
>ZFS license is incompatible with GPL,
So?
>>55128242
>Apple
>file system
Good joke.
>>55129649
You forgot that most of these Linux autists don't have an actual job or gf; so they need to find meaning in life elsewhere. So they place it in GPL and other licensing and "muh freedom" software.
>>55129649
Limited adoption due to inability to integrate into Linux kernel.
>>55129490
here's your (You). if you actually want someone to respond to you, say something worth answering.
>>55129514
>A lot of them are, a cursory google search will show this
then i'll wait whatever feels like a long enough time for you to do a cursory google search.
googling "OS X corrupt" yields 700k results, while "Windows corrupt" yields 15.4m results. without knowing the proportional rates of usage, I have no idea whether that's more OS X users dealing with corruption than there should be, but at first glance it doesn't look that convincing.
You're also conflating hard drive lifespan and data corruption pretty badly. The hard drive platters might continue to work for decades; we're not talking about the spinning plates here. We're talking about the filesystem arbitrarily flipping bits and corrupting data over time. The question is how much time corrupts how much data.
>>55129353
>living dangerously
>zfs is cddl
How the hell do you license a file system? I thought it was only possible to license driver code.
>>55129674
Uh...Not technically. It still has nothing to do with APFS, however.
>>55129701
The code is CDDL, not GPL.
Linus won't accept patches that aren't GPL.
>>55129666
>OS X has all versions lumped together
>the number's higher
Holy shit can you even math?
>>55129666
Windows from XP until now represents all of the operating systems that have overlapped with what is holistically referred to as "Mac OS X" in your image.
A quick add-up of all the windows operating systems since 2001 is...
155+151+149+147+146+139+138+135+53 or...
1213
>>55129695
>How the hell do you license a file system?
By creating it.
>>55129695
>I thought it was only possible to license driver code.
I honestly can't even wrap my head around how stupid you would have to be for this to be serious.
>>55129716
Good for him, that still has nothing to do with APFS.
>>55129716
If the code is cddl, can't you just create your own driver without copying any code whatsoever?
>>55129757
No, there's patents that can cover the filesystem, just like LAME can't (or couldn't) be distributed in binary form due to patents, same with x264
Unless Apple secures the patents and promises to cover any submarine patents that could come out, there's no way it would be accepted into the kernel
The fuck does a file system do?
>>55129818
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=file+system&l=1
>>55129719
>>55129717
>mactoddler pretending to know how to do math
ayylmao
>>55129869
so are you going to acknowledge that you just moved the goalpost or do you just need us to chase after you?
i guess here's your (You). you can tell your mom you did it!
A reminder that ZFS cucks never tell anybody about the added memory overhead and performance cliff when you reach 80% disk utilization.
>>55129869
>safari alone has more vulnerabilities than the entire windows product line
>>55129904
If you're hitting 80% usage it's time to add another drive anyway, you're going to run out soon.
>>55129869
>The message I am trying to get across is that all software products have vulnerabilities
>anon posts this with "mactoddlers ayylmao"
oh man reading is hard.
>>55129928
How do I add another hard drive to my laptop, anon?
Admit it, ZFS was designed for large file servers with ECC memory, not general desktop/portable computing.
>>55129869
>percentage of linux vulnerabilites patched: 100%
>percentage of ms vulnerabilies patched: 100%
>percentage of applel vulnerabilites patched: 0%
>maccucks will defend this
>>55129961
I never told you to use ZFS on your laptop
Also there are HDD caddies for 5.25" bays and mSATA SSDs
>>55129962
This is the real issue. Apple is a fucking joke.
Only a total moron would use macintrash to try and do any real work much less store or access any data of importance on it
>>55129928
Sure, because I love not being able to use 20% of my drive because of filesystem limitations.
>>55129882
How is that even a moving of the goalposts? As stated many of the vulnerabilities in Windows duplicate across versions but there are vulnerabilities specific to each version.
If you split OSX up into different versions as well then things aren't going to look any better for it. If anything the way it is presented right now is the best it is going to look.
>>55130029
I'm not defending filesystem limitations and don't even use ZFS. All I'm saying is that if you're coming that close to full, it's time to upgrade.
>>55128242
>Applel
>file system
>>55129869
>5% marketshare
>70%+ of the vulnerabilites
>applel
MACKUCKS
KUCKED
AGAIN
>>55130042
>How is that even moving the goalposts?
You first brought up that OS X has more vulnerabilities.
We brought up that OS X starts in 2001 and continues all the way to 2016, whereas Windows versions (which share roughly the same proportion of code across that timespan) are listed as discrete versions
Then you changed the metric from number to severity.
If we kept humoring you, maybe we'd keep refining on the definition of shitty software until it was some computed score determined by the number, severity, freshness, etc... of bugs in the most current operating system with more than N months post mainstream release (since it's not fair to evaluate something that got released yesterday, or something that's still in beta).
If you want to state at the outset what criteria matters to you, rather than add a new criterion every time we have an exchange, then go for it. I'm not going to waste my time chasing after zealots though.
>>55129341
Actually I know why it's shit.
Until not too long ago it had no case sensitivity, and even now it's insensitive by default. It has no sparse file support, it creates a new file every time you make a hard link, the time sensitivity in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ of 2016 is 1 second. It uses big endian byte code on little endian processors, so every. single. register. has to be byte swapped.
Even now you could think "wow, they're building something new and better" - yes, from an open-source FS that's been around for ages, since they could not come up with a decent FS on their own, and if they did it would probably suck. It's much easier to copy something that's already done. But hey, at least they're not completely stealing a kernel from BSD this time, right?
Hope we cleared up why Apple sucks donkey dick at designing anything more complex than a dock.
>>55129460
>then i'll ask why the millions of MBP users out there aren't dealing with OS X falling apart like it was made of sand, or all of their files getting corrupted, if it's supposed to happen somewhat often
Because they use their macbooks for fucking facebook and php coding, of course for trivial usecases you can always make a flaw seem meaningless.
>an Atom is a weak CPU? Then why can I read pdfs just fine on my chink Cherry Trail tablet?
If you want to compare filesystems use a context where the filesystem actually means anything, because a macbook with FAT32 would be just as good for what it's used for: office work. Of course we can't do that comparison because no critical system in the world uses HFS because, you know, it sucks.
>>55130155
>Until not too long ago it had no case sensitivity
It's had case sensitivity since at least 10.5, pretty sure it always has though
>But hey, at least they're not completely stealing a kernel from BSD this time, right?
It's not theft if the license allows it and they abide by the terms you fucking dumbass.
>>55130216
>It's had case sensitivity since at least 10.5, pretty sure it always has though
It hasn't.
>It's not theft if the license allows it and they abide by the terms you fucking dumbass.
Don't give two shits what you call it: Apple can't code anything that's actually important. They stole/took/copied a kernel from someone else and when they tried making a filesystem it made FAT look good.
>>55130213
see earlier. too lazy to link, but literally someone else made the same facebook joke. you're not even being creative.
as for the atom/cherry trail example, this just illustrates that describing a CPU as "weak" without context is meaningless. if the context in which people are using it is such that the CPU is fast enough, or the filesystem is sufficiently robust, then what are you complaining about?
and we know that people are using MBPs to do more than read PDFs, browse facebook, and code in PHP (honestly why coding in PHP registers to your brain as less computationally intensive is mysterious, but if it's something more substantive than you being autistic please don't lay it on us. half the fun is in you insistently making a little of your claim apparent as possible so you can slither out when we reply with facts that corner your idiocy).
>>55130248
>Apple can't code anything that's actually important.
what's "important" now? what are you two even talking about?
>>55130122
The fact clearly remains that if you break down to unique vulnerabilities per platform, Windows vs OSX, then OSX is much higher.
The likely reasoning for having the Windows versions separated is that (at the time) all these systems would be fully patched and you could have a fully patched Windows 7 machine with no patches available for it and a Windows 8 machine, while with OSX if you fully patched it you would be on the latest version.
To some degree it wouldn't be fair to have split OSX up into different versions the same as windows because you wouldn't be able to patch the older versions up to fix vulnerabilities without installing one of the newer versions.
So basically you're just hugely assmad and can't even logically into the breakdown.
>>55130248
>Apple writes the kernel itself
APPLE SHOULD JUST USE A REAL KERNEL DEVELOPED BY REAL KERNEL DEVELOPERS
>Apple uses a free kernel
APPLE SHOULD STOP STEALING AND START PROGRAMMING ON THEIR OWN
Freetards
>>55130279
>see earlier. too lazy to link, but literally someone else made the same facebook joke. you're not even being creative.
Because it's true. I'm not using a meme, I LITERALLY MEAN they're used for browsing, writing text/code and reading PDFs. I'm not pulling up "le facebook machine maymay" because I know you can do actual work on a macbook, but it's still not work where the filesystem is of any relevance. You could run OS X on FAT32 and it would run exactly as well. That's not because FAT32 is good, it's because the type of work done on laptops is a shitty evaluation for filesystems. And NO server runs on HFS, so the cases where the FS is relevant can't be compared.
>honestly why coding in PHP registers to your brain as less computationally intensive is mysterious,
I'll try again: you could be coding a fucking app to save cancer with a success rate of 100% and that shit would still run just as fine on FAT32. The importance of a task doesn't mean it taxes the FS. Writing on PHP could be the most glorious task known to man, and it still has no relevance on the filesystem. Also "computationally intensive" isn't an actual metric.
>more substantive than you being autistic
And of course, in lack of points, the epic meme insults start flinging. I'm sorry you lost.
>>55130317
>Apple writes the kernel itself
Let me know when that happens.
>>55130291
>I'm going to pretend like I don't understand anything
>>55128242
APFS won't be substantially better than btrfs or LVM+ext4 so nobody will devote significant amount of time to actually implement driver for it. And it will never be in mainline kernel because >>55129810
So it would be just another obscure FS that nobody cares about. Seriously through, macfags are better off using minixfs.
>>55130307
your histrionics would be less retarded if we didn't literally just drag you over the coals and have to explain to you what moving the goalposts is.
and your rationalization is retarded. Windows has shared much of the same codebase since the early 90s. The NT kernel is at the heart of it all. Trying to spin Microsoft's inability to comprehensively patch various operating systems into a strength is absolute madness
you're a credit to other brand zealots, but that's like saying you give retards inspiration to be better.
>>55130370
>they're used for browsing, writing text/code and reading PDFs
that's typically called work. i guess if you're saying that OS X isn't good for Crysis, then... yeah, kiddo.
>>55130370
No I'm asking why you used the word "important". Like what's the meaning in this case. "Important" just gets thrown around by idiots who want to add weight to what they're saying without really meaning anything, and I want to make sure you're not accidentally doing that. Or intentionally.
So what's the important thing Apple should be coding that they're not? What determines importance? Throw us a fucking bone.
>>55130370
>Let me know when that happens.
It happens right now. How else do you think are they doing it? They are still using the unchanged Mach kernel from a thousand years ago? Of course they are doing kernel development of some sorts.
>>55130410
>that's typically called work.
You can't be this stupid.
For the third time, that's the sort of work where the filesystem is irrelevant. That shit would get done in ANY filesystem. If you're comparing filesystems find a case like a server where uptime and data integrity is important where atomic transactions happen, except you can't because no system where the filesystem is relevant runs HFS. No server, no cluster, nothing. Just consumer machines. HFS is a filesystem that only runs on machines where the filesystem doesn't matter at all.
>>55130026
Bruh, basically every single tech company uses macs. Nearly every single Silicon Valley company is all Apple except for their accounting teams or whatever.
>>55130478
>For the third time, that's the sort of work where the filesystem is irrelevant.
that's been THE point since the beginning of this conversation; that HFS+ being bad according to Linus doesn't seem to matter in practice. I don't know why you felt the need to argue with me and repeat my argument this many times, but if you needed it, then do it more times on your own in the corner of your room or something. Please just stop posting in this or any other thread.
>Apple promised to release detailed specification for others to write their own drivers for APFS.
Just like Microsoft released detailed specification for OOXML that had like 6000 pages to make sure noone but Microsoft will be able to implement it properly?
>>55130487
So you agree with him.
>>55130394
I don't think I ever tried to spin it as a strength. The fact simply remains that at the time each of those operating systems was a distinctly separate OS that shared the majority of the code and was each actively supported by MS and could each be fully patched without shifting to another version.
Because of this adding their vulnerabilities and lumping them together wouldn't be fair because some vulnerabilities are specific to versions and when a shared vulnerability is patched it would be patched in multiple versions, so one fix would mean a reduction of several vulnerabilities in total instead of just one.
There are only two sensible ways of displaying Windows vulnerabilities; the way it is now or by unique vulnerabilities. Either way does not make OSX look any better.
>>55130370
Apple X Servers and any Mac run in OS X server uses hfs+ anon. You should have said "no Linux or Windows server used it" which then would mean that Microsoft is in the wrong as well, because no server running anything other than a Microsoft OS runs NTFS
Im really questions what you define as real work? If word processing, pdfs, email, etc isn't work, what is? What computer related field is defined as real work? Programming? Because plenty of developers program on macs so they can target every platform.
If you mean real work as by a server or data center, any server running OS X server does real work, and hfs hasn't blown up that they need to switch to Windows server or Linux
>>55128242
>facebook filesystem
For what purpose?
>>55130438
>No I'm asking why you used the word "important".
Well I meant important as in more essential. For example, I can run an OS just fine without a dock, so it's not important. I can run an OS with a window manager, but it's not very usable, so it's sort of important. I can't run an OS at all without a kernel, so it's very important.
>>55130560
ebin
>>55130556
>need to switch to Windows server
lol could you imagine being a tech employee and getting this email?
>>55128242
What if mactards fucked off back to macrumors where they belong?
>>55130626
>waah stop discussing technology on a technology board
>>55130574
usability is something determined by the user. i went looking for a way to drastically ratchet down my battery usage and limiting my computer to just the zsh shell in my terminal (no graphical desktop environment). what you consider not very usable i would tend to consider just fine.
if you acknowledge that you and i have different definitions of usable (and thus "important"), then you have to see that somewhere further along the novice user spectrum finds the dock necessary to usability and therefore important.
but "important" is so clearly the wrong word here, and even if you added the caveat of "important TO ME" it would still probably be wrong.
and this is saying nothing of the fact that, aside from pkill'ing processes, i'm not sure you could get by without the dock as readily as you seem to think.
>>55130496
>that's been THE point since the beginning of this conversation; that HFS+ being bad according to Linus doesn't seem to matter in practice.
First, I never brought up Linus nor did the post I originally replied to.
Second, when I'm talking about filesystems I usually like to use a context where they're relevant. The fact that Apple confined HFS to machines where it's not relevant at all does not make it a good filesystem. Golf carts are "just fine" to carry around fat old golfers, they're still bad cars in all the metrics a car has. As a filesystem it's not good, and the only reason you say it's fine is because the work you do and most people do has a huge tolerance over its flaws.
>>55130556
>Im really questions what you define as real work?
Since I have explained this 3 times by now, you'll excuse me if I simply assume you're not really all there. It's not at all about real work and I don't didn't even use that expression. It's about work where the filesystem is relevant.
>any server running OS X server does real work, and hfs hasn't blown up that they need to switch to Windows server or Linux
I'm actually interested in this, what servers run OS X? I know you said above the Apple X servers, but what do those do? Package hosting or the Apple websites? Basically, does the whole Apple backend run on HFS?
>>55130585
I'm a tech employee and one of my clients just did this
His turbo autist IT guy set him up on a clusterfuck of interconnected loonix VMs arguing that it's "better"
Nothing worked right so after six months they backed up everything and moved to Windows
>>55130662
>blah blah our uses are different so everything is subjective
I was talking about filesystems and kernels. Can you run an OS with a filesystem or a kernel? No? Then I'd say it's pretty important.
>but "important" is so clearly the wrong word here, and even if you added the caveat of "important TO ME"
But that's not what I mean at all.
>>55130729
*without
My bad.
>not writing your own filesystem
>>55130892
>computer
>not technology
Pick one.
>>>/global/rules/2
>>55130702
The second time reading over this thread, and no you didn't define it. Please do so at you're leisure.
Apples backend is closed, but seeing as up until a year ago when the chips fried, I used a gen 5 Mac quad (two dual core ppc chips) as a server for a image host, not to mention the thousands of Xserve machines that got sold, and the hundreds of schools that use iPads/macs for students use apple made servers for the App Store and to push updates, all use OS X and the HFS+ filessystem, there are people that use OS X for their servers.
>>55130965
>I don't like it so it's a toy
It's a fucking computer whether you like it or not, and as worthy of discussion here as muh gahnoo plus linux
>lol xD he's discussing something I don't like so he's a shill
You should really read the rule I linked you to, you're without a doubt violating it.
>>55130702
Left out the part about X servers. The X servers were apples line of servers that they sold, wonderful machines, they discontinued them when they started focusing on the iPhone and macbooks
>>55129649
>>55129669
So it can't be used as a Linux kernel module because it isn't GPL, and this extends to APFS (even if it gets open source licensing it will not be GPL compatible for sure)
Nothing to do with preferring one license over the other, it's just how GPL works
>>55130560
facebook would be offended, they use and even contribute to BTRFS
>>55131021
>It's a fucking toddler toy whether you like it or not
No it's not, you goddamned moron.
>You should really read the rule I linked you to, you're without a doubt violating it.
I'm not shilling anything, just arguing with some twelve year old dumbass who thinks he gets to decide that technology isn't technology.
>>55128242
>Apple promised to release detailed specification for others to write their own drivers for APFS.
if that actually happens then I'm on board
>>55130987
>You didn't define an expression you didn't use.
Well damn.
Also I don't fully understand what you mean, you said their backend is closed, as in they don't disclose the stack?
The schools part is nice, but it's hardly what I'm looking for. I meant an actual large cluster with lots of concurrency running OS X. If Apple itself ran their backend on it I'd retract my statement.
Why do Windows users continue to pretend like they're not running the #1 toy OS on the planet?
Windows is literally VidyaOS and nothing else.
>>55130729
god damn it dude are you for real?
>>55131088
As far as I know they haven't disclosed what their backend is, pure assumption points to in house and they're products, they make their own datacenters, hardware and chips. If I had that much money and already developed software, and control over hardware, I'd use my own stuff.
>>55131110
if you think it's not technology, then report the thread. shitposting about a thread that rustles you is the most retarded faggatronic thing you can possibly do.
if you're too much of a fucking cowardly bitch to risk getting banned for reporting threads that shouldn't be reported, then fuck off.
>>55131110
>Yes, it is.
No, it is not. You can't just make claims and pretend they're undeniable fact. You need to back them up with evidence, which we both know you can't because you're just pulling shit out of your ass.
>Yes, you are.
Disagreeing with you is not shilling, you fucking twat.
>>55131109
It's time you leave the basement and enter the real world.
Windows is everywhere.
>>55131170
Oh, and I forgot to add, there's no need to samefag.
>>55131170
>>>/global/rules/7
>>55131114
I meant WITHOUT a filesystem or a kernel.
>>55131178
This is true, but not really because it's good.
>>55131137
>risk getting banned for reporting threads that shouldn't be reported
Que?
>>55131194
Good, you have the link, now read the whole stuff.
>>55131226
I've violated no rules. You have though.
>>55131241
I haven't, if I did, then why am I still here?
>>55131208
pic. read the rules at some point before the end of your first month here.
>>55131186
>no need to samefag
the posts are 8 seconds apart. i just chimed in to tell you to report the thread and move on, or just move on. you being a fucking faggot is fucking retarded of you.
also, i don't honestly believe that you would waste your time posting in a thread you had reported. it would disappear abruptly and then how would you get the last word in during that argument where you role played as the retarded zealot?
>>55131178
Windows is everywhere only because it's sold with the cheapest, shittiest bargain bin niggerputers.
>>55131226
what whole stuff? about posting that you reported the thread? nobody has called for that here. all i've said is that you should report the thread and move on.
if you think the only things one can do are
>post in the thread
and
>report the thread and then post antagonistically about it
then try option #3 and
>fucking leave
>>55131262
You have, multiple rules actually
>submitting false reports
>announcing reports
>using 4chan while being a 12 year old
>why am I still here
Mods are people, they don't work instantaneously.
>>55131226
>now read the whole stuff.
>babby's first post
>>55131283
>the posts are 8 seconds apart
No need to get mad, Pajeet, is this your first week at work? I'll give you an advice, to samefag, even if you know how to post within under a minute, you should try to change the way you express yourself, if you don't people will tell anyways.
>>55131334
I don't shill anything, dipshit.
>>55131310
>submitting false reports
I haven't
>announcing reports
Did I anounce it? or did I just answered a question?
>using 4chan while being a 12 year old
Why are you projecting this hard?
And stop samefagging.
>>55131334
>Windows user unironically using "muh games" as an argument
Fuck off back to your Steam collection, kiddo.
>>55131356
>I haven't
You reported a technology thread on a technology board
>Did I anounce it? or did I just answered a question?
By answering the question the way you did you announced that you submitted a report.
>Why are you projecting this hard?
Because we both know it's true. There is no way you're an adult, and if you are, you're literally retarded.
>And stop samefagging.
I'm not. You apparently are though >>55131334
>>55130538
But, you're wrong.
You can apply security patches Yosemite without moving to ElCap.
Go back and find research that breaks them out.
Good Luck.
>>55130059
> Linus said it was bad.
> I have no idea what he's talking about, but he's smaaart.
> I will parrot him now.
>>55131452
>> Apel said it was gud.
>> I have no idea what they's talking about, but they's apel.
>> I will parrot they's now.
>>55131393
>You reported a technology thread on a technology board
I haven't
>By answering the question the way you did you announced that you submitted a report.
Not really
>Because we both know it's true. There is no way you're an adult, and if you are, you're literally retarded.
Again, why are you projecting this hard?
>I'm not. You apparently are though >>55131334 #
>no u
Come in kid,I'm not. You apparently are though >>55131334 #
>no u
Come on kiddo, you know better than that, that's the saddest defense you could make up.
>>55131498
i fucking hate apple fans. the other day i heard some old dude ask this lady "is that the new surface?" "no, it's apple"
it was an ipad with a keyboard
an ipad... WITH A KEYBOARD
>>55128836
>snapshots feature
seriously, fuck snapper. i don't need a snapshot every 15 fucking minutes along with 50 thin provisioned logical volumes
>>55131526
>I haven't
Filesystem discussion isn't technology board worthy?
>Not really
Yes really
>projecting
Because you act like the edgy 12 year old we all were at one point
>lol applel iz bad becuz it is xDDD
>lol their stuff iz 4 babies I'm such a grown up
>lmao I'm the almighty decider of what is technology
>>55131533
iPads are Apple products, dipshit, and the new Pro models have first-party keyboard accessories. (Not to mention third-party ones have been around for years.)
>>55131498
> Shit, I don't know what to say, I'll just say the same thing back to him.
Nice work, Ace.
>>55128242
>autistic users ever accepting an "iToy AppFag" anything
>in any year ever
But then we wouldn't look cool and unique! We wouldn't be able to say how much better we are than macfags!
>>55131498
Truly disgusting. Why are macfag subhumans allowed to live?
>>55131421
But the patch to move to ElCap includes security patches that you can't patch separately.
Before Windows 10 you couldn't patch to Windows 8 from 7 and even if you could, doing so wouldn't inherently include patches for unpatched vulnerabilities in Windows 7.
Looking through Apple's Security updates ( https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 ) they have been releasing security patches for Yosemite up to March of this year, but the most recent security patch is listed as El Capitan only (though some portions of it appear to affect Yosemite as well).
In fact, I looked up some of the CVEs for portions of the patch that are only available for ElCapitan and they affected all versions prior to that patch level, so choosing not to install the latest OSX would be like choosing not to install a Windows service pack than not installing a newer Windows version (as long as your Windows version is still being supported, looking at you XP).
>>55129191
facebook uses btrfs
>>55131714
>Apple
>Security updates
Good joke.
>>55131714
Right, but that would either justify looking at both families as one block, or breaking either out into versions.
Neither company is bothering to push patches to older versions. (like XP or Leopard)
>>55131926
Microsoft pushes updates for as long as they officially support versions, which they do until they announce they are ending support.
The reason the table doesn't show XP but still shows Vista, for example, would probably be due to this, XP is no longer getting any security updates (publicly at least) while Vista is still under support.
>>55130702
Apple no longer uses the Xserves because the newest ones are 7 years old.
>>55131566
Filesystem discussion isn't technology board worthy?
Except, that's what the thread was about, that's not what you were discussing.
>Yes really
Not really
>Because you act like the edgy 12 year old we all were at one point
Nah, 12 year olds discuss with everyone and samefag to try to prove their point instead of bring actual facts to the table, and 12 year olds also project really hard to try to convince that the other part of the argument is 12 years old.
>>55132136
>that's not what you were discussing.
Yes it was.
>Not really
Yes really.
>the rest of that bullshit
ebin, you're the one that made the claims, back them up or shut up.
>>55132136
No one cares what filesystem Fisher Price uses for their toy laptops.
>>55131566
That's not really discussing is it? What are you? 12?
>>55132201
What's not really discussing what?
>>55132023
Just because they pushed that update for Yosemite yet, doesn't mean they won't. I remember them pushing Leopard updates for a long time for the non-64-bit machines.
You may be right, though. Even so, that doesn't mean they've abandoned those users -- you have to remember the closed ecosystem that the machines run on.
Anything that could run Mavericks could run ElCap, and Applel knows that. That might be their thinking in requiring the system update that you are pointing out. I'd have to check to be sure, but I *think* that any thing that worked with Snow Leopard (first full 64-bit) could run El Cap.
Not every system that can run Vista, or WIn 7, can run win 10. They MS has to support in a different way. (Especially when corporations won't upgrade due to their legacy in-house apps.)
>>55132230
>Not every system that can run Vista, or WIn 7, can run win 10
Bull-fucking-shit.
>>55132271
You really are retarded, aren't you?
>>55132271
My parent's computer runs Win8 but can't install Win10 because it believes there is no driver for their onboard graphics.
>>55132271
My laptop has no GPU driver for any version past Windows 7
>>55129251
filenames aren't case sensitive.
>>55132441
>waah defaults
Quit acting like you can't change it.
What are the pros and cons of moving from ext4 to btrfs or ZFS ?
>>55132165
>Yes it was.
Saddly, it wasn't
>Yes really.
Not really
>ebin, you're the one that made the claims, back them up or shut up.
First of all, no, I'm not the one making claims without a backup, I invite you read again the posts to see that. Then again, and I'm getting tired of repeating myself, you still haven't backed up yours.
>>55132454
Can you change it on the drive OSX is installed on?
>>55132476
Yes
>>55132476
No.
>>55132504
Quit lying you piece of shit.
>>55132454
no one uses changes it to be case-sensitive because applications magically start breaking because of it. creative suite was the one famous for it.
>>55132523
You just need to create a case insensitive dmg for the few programs you encounter that break because of such retarded shit, it's a bit tedious to set up but once you're done it's fine.
>>55128242
won't happen because it is a proprietary lock-in file format.
>>55132523
Hmmm ... Adobe's shit programming once again ... that's a shock. Though I'm sure others are shitty as well.
>>55132570
The only non-Adobe program I've had an issue with case sensitivity is Steam
>>55132487
Quit lying you piece of shit.
>>55132699
I'm not you dumbass
Journaling filesystems suck anyway. UFFS for life
>>55132795
>no journaling
Brave soul.
>>55131707
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
>>55129563
there's still no particularly good reason for it to have been the standard filesystem for OSX
in the OS8-9 days, sure, they needed something while their plans to replace classic Mac OS fell through, but the fact that HFS+ continued to be used beyond that is embarassing
>>55132931
>Maddox
>>55132720
Quit lying you piece of shit.
>>55132931
kek
>>55132992
>there's still no particularly good reason for it to have been the standard filesystem for OSX
Do you not remember how in the shit late early 2000s Apple was? They needed to do some quick changes, a filesystem is not a quick change. Could they have used something else? Yea, probably if they wanted to wait a little bit longer to hash out licensing. I don't think they thought they had that time and so OS X shipped with it.
>>55131018
>and this extends to APFS
How? Licensing information hasn't been released, APFS has nothing to do with ZFS.
>>55132931
My god that brings back memories.
I'm surprised that guy is still going. Is there an older private website still on the Internet?
>>55132931
What podcast will he unexpectedly end next!
>>55128321
>ntfs
kys
>>55132931
Why do PC/Android users hate apple with such passion?
Its just another brand at the end of the day? Why do they go out of their way just to insult Apple users/products?
>>55131742
with cassandra aka 2000 redundant backups of everything
>>55133402
insecurity
Why the fuck would you compare APFS to ZFS
do macs even have ECC ram?
>>55128242
Did apple already bail on HFS+
>>55128242
Yes because people will unironically start using a toy fs made for a toy OS when there are mature existing alternatives used on enterprise grade operating systems
>>55133508
Mac Pros do.
>>55133402
Why do Apple users hate PC/Android users with such passion?
Its just another brand at the end of the day? Why do they go out of their way just to insult non-Apple users/products?
>>55128242
It's more likely BtrFS will become the norm.
>>55129353
>news company
Based out of the UK but international?
>>55134204
It performs like shit, though - poor enough to make up for its nice feature set.
BtrFS is the FS of the future, and it always will be.
>>55130487
>Silicon Valley
You mean new age startup....
They start a company using Macs programming in Ruby.
>>55134251
>You mean new age startup....
Try Google, HP, IBM, etc.
>>55129341
Performance:
Timestamps only have a resolution down to seconds, NOT miliseconds or lower.
Thats ok though because thanks to being globaly locked only one opperation can do done at time anyways.
Shit is so old it was designed for 16 bit. And still mostly works that way. Exept the bits that where "upgraded" to 32bit
Oh yeah and the fuckig thing is not even little endian. Its big endian from back in the time when Apple was all big endian.
That means copious amounts of byte swapping just to store HFS metadata....
Retardation:
It is not actually full UTF-16 but it mashes together characters to be as close as possible. It's realy weired. Something called normalisation which ends you up with what should be 1 character actualy is two characters and naturally needs the space of both.
Designed as case insensitive, case sensitivity is bolten on and considered not stable enough to be OS drive. (Just call Apple with some file level problems, they will tell you to format and start over again )
It is not actually a file system designed for UNIX features. All of this was bolted on.
HFS+ cant into hard links
What you think are hard links is a hidden from everything directory containing files that keeps track of these links.
But its all good because that means we can also hard link directories ....
Extended atributes ? nope its an alternate stream just like allmost everything that HFS was not designed for. Just make it a named for yo.
In summary its a retarded file system that thanks to it being upgraded so much over the years breaks much easyer than anything else curently in high volume use and it needs to be replaced years ago.
Might install it once I get my new SSD
>>55134562
>ase sensitivity is bolten on and considered not stable enough to be OS drive.
That's not true, but a lot of software written for OS X can have issues with a case sensitive filesystem.
Time machine back ups, a thin layer of hardlinks, hidden folders and inode fuckery smeared over a 30 year old file format....
They had ZFS for years and paid to have Sun engineers come down to cupertino to help build ZFS on MacOs. Which is based on BSD so how hard could that be. Then Larry Eliston Accidentley mentioned ZFS on macos before Jobs did so the whole project was shit canned. So now the entire Mac community has to live with AFS for ever, the last fs went for 30 years so enjoy your AFS until 2046.
No wonder Apple latest os' market share is less then win 8.1
>>55129353
Nigga if you just check the internet people and companies have lost shitload of data due to btrfs.
It is NOT production safe.
Use ZFS if anything.
>Not using reiserFS
>>55134562
unicode normalization is not weird. There shouldn't be an entry called "my vp poképorn collection" that is distinct from "my /vp/ poképorn collection"
>>55128242
>>55128740
>Taking features from ZFS
Why not just literally outright implant ZFS into both OS's and tell everyone to fuck off.
>>55138651
ignore the slashes
>>55138584
>using reiserFS
>>55136117
>They had ZFS for years and paid to have Sun engineers come down to cupertino to help build ZFS on MacOs. Which is based on BSD so how hard could that be. Then Larry Eliston Accidentley mentioned ZFS on macos before Jobs did so the whole project was shit canned. So now the entire Mac community has to live with AFS for ever, the last fs went for 30 years so enjoy your AFS until 2046.
That's not what happened at all, what are you talking about? Apple has its own team working on the ZFS port and the project was canned because Sun was purchased by Oracle.
>>55138677
Because ZFS doesn't belong on PCs.
>>55136117
http://dtrace.org/blogs/ahl/2016/06/15/apple_and_zfs/
>>55128318
>trusting apple to make a coherent filessystem
This, also BTRFS is a thing.
>>55139731
Yeah they paid for sun guys to go help them out Brian Cantrill, who worked there at the time on ZFS, spoke about it.
You never mentioned a product before Jobs.....or hell came after you.
>>55132535
Windows 10 doesn't need any of that.
JUST WORKS
U
S
T
W
O
R
K
S
>>55141165
Windows 10's also a steaming pile of horse shit. Besides it's not the operating system's fault the programmers for 3rd party programs are incompetent.
>>55141180
Why the fuck was it not case sensitive to begin with. Who the fuck asked for that? Is it too hard for macfags to differentiate between upper- and lowercase characters. And why is win10 a 'steaming pile of shit', been using it since November '15 without an antivirus at that, watching fhd porn on sites with pop-up ads, no back-ups, being able to hot-swap HDDs with different projects for work, without any slow downs since day 0. I also have checked whether there's data being sent to microsoft that autistic faggots here wouldn't want to, and I couldn't find anything other than data about the system specs, the number of system process crashes, info about those crashes and windows defender data (shitty built-in antivirus that doesn't bother you until it incorrectly detects something, after which you can whitelist whatever it detects if it's not a virus and disable it until next boot) if windows defender detected something that could've caused the crashes being sent to microsoft. I run mbam every once in a while and adwkiller if I feel like there's adware on my pc.
In other words
>works on my machine™
>>55141336
You are a complete fucktard
Enjoy your shitty ass, barely working steaming pile of shit.
I would literally rather do everything I need to do on a computer on a fucking 68000 Mac than on a Win 10 PC.
>>55141336
>Why the fuck was it not case sensitive to begin with. Who the fuck asked for that?
Who knows
>And why is win10 a 'steaming pile of shit'
Forced updates
Datamining
Clusterfuck of a UI
Have fun shilling for Microsoft
>>55141382
>Forced updates
That don't break anything unless you're using pre-built shit that came with lots of bloat
>Datamining
I've literally seen that's not true, the internet is filled with datamining shit though, so unless you're completely off-grid your data is being 'mined'.
>Clusterfuck of a UI
Well, that's kinda true, but it's good for tech illiterate babbies that there's a dumbed down version of most things, it takes on extra click to get to where you can adjust the settings like you'd like to, it's also not much different than windows 8.1.
>>55141379
Nice argument, just like >>55141180 was a nice argument. You've proven that neckbeards are smarter than macfags, though I already knew that, as there are a few neckbeards and a good amount of macfags where I work, the neckbeards help the macfags when they can't connect their macbooks to the secured network. The neckbeards also discuss games while they eat McDonald's before heading home after work, I know as I have been there a few times, I didn't eat with them though, I just took my burgers and Belgian fries and ate them in my car while driving as I wouldn't eat McDonald's unless I am in a hurry.
>>55141336
>been using it since November '15 without an antivirus at that
No you haven't .....
>>55141566
>using win 10
>neckbeard
No, you are just a fucking retard.
Seriously, even most winfags prefer Macs to Win 10
Win10 is fucking cancer and if you post on /g/ and use it unironically you are fucking cancer too.
>>55141566
>That don't break anything unless you're using pre-built shit that came with lots of bloat
Where did I say they break anything? I just think it's bullshit that my OS decides when I can and can't use my computer.
>I've literally seen that's not true
Yeah, okay shill.
>the internet is filled with datamining shit though
And I do everything I can to avoid it, I'm not going to willingly use DataminerOS.
>Well, that's kinda true
Exactly
>but it's good for tech illiterate babbies that there's a dumbed down version of most things
I'm not a tech illiteraye babby.
>it takes on extra click to get to where you can adjust the settings like you'd like to
So you're telling me the first thing I need to do after installing Windows 10 is spend time making it usable? Fuck that noise.
>it's also not much different than windows 8.1
Windows 8 had an absolutely amazing UI compared to the utter cancer that is Windows 10.
>just like >>55141180 (You) was a nice argument
I'm not going to bother giving a Windows 10 shill good arguments unless they ask. You're actually putting up a (pathetic) fight, so here I am giving you real answers. Now quit your bitching.
>the rest
Running out of arguments doesn't mean it's time for projecting and ad hominem, it means it's time to shut up and leave.
>>55141599
Yes I have. I know as I got windows 10 free from work and upgraded my pc in November '15.
>>55141607
Nice argument, even though 'most winfags' you use there is the 2poor4macbook type of consumerist normies that haven't ever seen what a horrible experience it is to use a mac. Also macos is fucking cancer and if you're a macfag and post on /g/ you are fucking cancer too.
>>55141698
If you don't configure your os (any os) as soon as you install it you're a retard. Even though you technically don't need to, you should still do it unless you're a tech illiterate babby.
>>55141742
>If you don't configure your os (any os) as soon as you install it you're a retard.
I agree. What you don't seem to understand is that there's a difference between making your OS usable and configuring your OS to your liking.
>>55141165
>>55141180
>>55141336
>>55141379
>>55141382
>>55141566
>>55141599
>>55141607
>>55141698
>>55141742
/g/ in a nutshell. Never change plox.
>>55141742
>you use there is the 2poor4macbook type of consumerist normies that haven't ever seen what a horrible experience it is to use a mac
That is like 70% of average consumers you fucking spoon, and most dual users prefer using a Mac to using a PC.
>if you're a macfag and post on /g/ you are fucking cancer too.
I'm writing this on a fucking PC you fucking illiterate mug
>>55141758
It is usable without configuring if the one using it doesn't know anything about tech. I on the other hand usually need to unplug an hdd and plug another one in using the extra long sata cable I have routed from behind my pc to the outside so I don't have to bare with usb speeds as the company only has usb 2.0 hdd enclosures and I'm not looking to get a usb 3.0 enclosure and spend extra money to do my work.
>>55141807
I'm done. I'm not going to waste my day arguing with some Windows 10 fanboy who will pull anything he possibly can out of his ass to justify his OS being horse shit.
>>55141804
That doesn't make win10 shitty, it's just that 70% of average consumers only use facebook, instagram and occasionally a tech site that's paid by apple to promote the newest iPhone 6s' 1334 x 750 screen (yes the 4.7 iPhone literally is not much more than a 720p budget android phone) and how retina it is.
>>55141835
You're not even arguing with me, you're just doing the stereotypical macfag shit: osx is better, windows is shit, over and over again.
>>55141858
>You're not even arguing with me, you're just doing the stereotypical macfag shit: osx is better, windows is shit, over and over again.
Are you fucking kidding me? I never said anything about OS X being better. You're just pulling shit out of your ass because you know you have no valid argument.
For the record though, literally anything is better than Windows 10.
>>55141858
>That doesn't make win10 shitty
YES IT DOES
If your operating system is only used because its cheap then you have fucking failed, especially when low-end PCs won't be a large thing in like 10-20 years and will have been replaced by tablets/phones entirely. If your OS is bad at browsing the web even, as Win 10 is due to its massively sluggish performance on most PCs, then it is useless for 70%+ of consumers.
Again, dual users prefer Macs thats a fact you fucking 12 year old edgelord
You are a FUCKING SPOON
>yes the 4.7 iPhone literally is not much more than a 720p budget android phone
Yes, but people buy them for the OS and the brand. That does mean that they are successful products.
>>55141742
>Also macos is fucking cancer and if you're a macfag and post on /g/ you are fucking cancer too
Windows is the only cancerous OS. Everything else is acceptable.
>>55138677
Several years ago (around the release of OS X 10.5/10.6 if I recall), Apple was going to do just that. They had very serious plans to move to ZFS, and had even created a reasonably stable port of ZFS for OS X that was distributed to developers at WWDC that year. Sun was on board with it too, giving Apple patent indemnification.
It was all looking peachy until Oracle bought Sun, when Oracle revoked the indemnification previously granted by Sun. At that point, Apple's legal team deemed it too risky to proceed with and as a result Mac users have been stuck with HFS+ ever since.
Fuck Oracle.
>>55141909
Windows has a reputation for being slow thanks to OEMs who shit it up before putting it on their machines (pre-built desktops and laptops) I built my own pc (I didn't even get a get windows 10 notification or anything) and I use fedora on my laptop. You can also reinstall windows on a bloated up pc, which'll make it work, as all the oem garbage will be gone. Dual users (kek why do you keep saying that dumb shit) prefer macs because the animations and muh status.
>Yes, ... products.
That's literally the reason why /g/ exists in the first place, we hated such shit back when this place wasn't an nvidia/amd, intel/amd, ios/android, leftie/rightie shithole.
>>55141936
Please leave, osx is unacceptable in /g/ (or at least what it used to be). Windows can't be unacceptable as /g/'s favourite way of spending time unproductively is gayming, and it's a fact that windows is THE gaming platform.
>>55142053
>osx is unacceptable in /g/
Why? Because it's not open source? This is a technology board, not a freetard board.
>>55142053
Are you fucking serious you fucking spoon? I have never seen an OS as terrible as Win 10 since fucking Vista, which is fucking godly in comparison.
If even the OEMs, who 99% of people rely on, can't make it work then it is yes shit.
>You can also reinstall windows on a bloated up pc, which'll make it work, as all the oem garbage will be gone.
K, here's where this is wrong. Some family member installed Win 10 on their laptop. It got rid off mountains of shit programs but now it actually runs worse. Programs randomly crash or never load, it takes fucking years to load webpages...
>prefer macs because the animations and muh status.
Or because the OS is optimized for the hardware, meaning that performance is generally better. Plus Apple support is usually better, less viruses are written for Macs, great backwards compatibility, less issues due to hardware coming from one source etc.
>>55141063
They used Sun guys for consultancy but they had their own team working on it. It's literally in the articles. They're the ones who did the port later on that they sold.
>>55128242
How is Apple even relevant anymore? It's not like they even make computers. Their products are basically jewelry for short-dicked nobodies that think being seen with Apple shit makes them look cool. Pro-tip: it does not, it makes them look retarded. Apple shills and shitskins fuck right off.
>>55142709
>look mom I'm shitposting again
