Why people here hate systemd?
>>54966589
Memes. It's the best thing to happen to Lincux in a long time.
Many linux developers have the crazy notion that an init system should only handle init tasks and that they shouldn't be forced to include hard dependencies on libsystemd in their software just to recreate functionality that used to work correctly with sysvinit and openrc.
>>54966589
One dude basically has the keys to the Linux ecosystem.
>>54966589
fuck off lennart
>>54966589
It doesn't work on FreeBSD.
Systemd is fine, the real problem is pulseaudio. I hate that piece of shit, alsa worked just fine before.
>>54966589
You just wanted to post maki, didn't you?
Kay, this needs to be fixed.
Suggested fix: just use the 'seq_printf()' interfaces, which do the
proper buffering, and allow any size reads of various packetized data.
Of course, I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it
was a good idea to read things ONE F*CKING BYTE AT A TIME with system
calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the f*ck does
idiotic things like that? How did they noty die as babies, considering
that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?
Linus
>>54966670
Yes pulseaudio is shit. How do I get rid of it?
People don't like lennart and the fact that it was deliberately made non-portable and the fact that projects are depending on it for stuff.
>>54966678
Don't we all?
stop shitposting with mai waifu, you piece of garbage
>>54966589
Fanaticism combined with the Unix philosophy meme.
>>54966589
It's a good init system. But if everything depends on it, it'll become a very vulnerable spot for Linux. If systemd is broken everything else is broken.
>>54966589
>kills a lot of software
>replace critical software that shouldn't replace
>no independent logging system
>open ports to the network during booting
>takes screenshot of your screen like windows 10
>no independent developers really know if Red Hat put backdoors
>the main developer is a jackass
pick one
>>54966765
Linux was deliberately made non portable but that didn't stop people from porting it.
"systemd is what appears to be intentionally attempting to fragment the FOSS community by inserting bloated high velocity corporate code that by design makes itself as intrusive in terms of dependencies as possible.
This is a very bad precedent for FOSS and should be addressed with concern".
Anon The Wise.
>>54966624
literally who? Linus? no he only has works with the Kernel which != systemdicks
>>54967026
Linus didn't really have other hardware for Linux to run on at the time so yes it was initially non-portable but Linus didn't really want it to remain that way he just couldn't help it. Eventually the community fixed that.
Lennart wrote systemd to take advantage of features in the linux kernel that other *nix systems simply do not have and porting these features to other systems will require a lot of effort that probably wont ever happen. But it's at least possible to imitate systemd's functionality so that applications that rely on systemd can function elsewhere.
>>54967069
systemd developers. Pottering and his ilk. Redhat has a pretty large footprint in it also.
idk but it just works for me so i won't complain about it
>>54967118
>>54966814
>>54966765
>>54966670
>>54966589
Dumb maki poster.
>>>/a/
>>54967159
There's at least two of us
Here's this post by Lennart where he tries to address some of the criticisms about systemd
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
>>54967159
dumb reddit poster
>apt-get autoremove systemd
>this will remove 274 packages
>none of them have anything to do with systemd, they just have a hard dependency to libsystemd
IT'S TOO LATE
>>54966589
>>54966670
>>54966765
>>54966814
>>54967118
>>54967207
Maki is a dirty slut like systemd is.
An init system should be just and only that.
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402
this x 1000 is why I hate systemdicks.
I don't care how fast my computer boots, I want to run the scripts that set shit up. I don't want to be running a black box that has a function taking 27 arguments as my god damn PID 1.
Same as everything else - it's a trendy meme and even "oldfags" don't want to admit they are led this hard by the nose by the same shit they hate "normies" for falling.
At one point in time there was outrage over pulseaudio being accepted, the move from grub to grub2, when distros started shipping the default with gnome3 people flipped some shit. This one just happened to get meme status.
Penny to a pound the average "anti-systemd linux purist" wouldn't even KNOW HOW TO CHECK IF IT WAS INSTALLED.
It's mostly over now but 2013 - 2014 there were 5 threads on it here today full of fud, bullshit, and scared losers spouting garbage.
>>54967023
>>>54966589 (OP)
>kills a lot of software
>replace critical software that shouldn't replace
Who cares, things always get replaced eventually
>no independent logging system
Does this matter?
>open ports to the network during booting
You can disWho cares, things always get replaced eventuallyable that
>takes screenshot of your screen like windows 10
Bullshit
>no independent developers really know if Red Hat put backdoors
It's open source
>the main developer is a jackass
Who cares
>>54968378
That has nothing to do with systemd. That is a EFI implementation problem that has no relevance to systemd.
>>54966814
No, Umi is better.
>>54968574
I fucked up a paste in this, shit
>>54967069
lennart poettering
before this he was the lead on pulseaudio which was pretty notorious for being bad
I don't like Lennart Poettering. I don't see why I should use software by a guy who thinks I'm an asshole.
>>54968777
Trips tells the truth.
/thread
>>54968615
Don't worry nobody reads shitposts here.
>>54966670
Alsa didn't before hence pulse tried and failed to solve the problem. Alsa got better and just werks for the most part but audio on linux still sucks if you have to fuck with it.
http://skarnet.org/software/s6/systemd.html
http://ewontfix.com/14/
>>54967234
You can mark libsystemd manually installed (just apt install should do it) then it should stay when roving m removing systemd
Why does everyone hate Maki?
>>54966589
MAKI
>>54970933
She's a disgusting whore
>>54966624
this pretty much.
and that he is forcing his shitware through the power of money. Just because it's redhat, a giant in the server industry, other distros are adopting it completely disregarding their users. It's mainly their imposing attitude which I dislike mostly because the're pretty much trying to get rid of the whole idea of choice that defines the linux community.
This also stems from the fact that while once you could change the daemons that would run in your computer if they didn't behave the way you wanted, now they come bundled with the systemd (which is no longer an init system but a monolith) and you have to suck it up.
The fact that it is not actually modular because it doesn't define interfaces for it's components, makes it spaghetti. Software should be that complex because then it becomes a bug nest, a huge attack surface.
But above all, it's the imposition, which is absorbing the whole of linux, not because it's a good solution (because it isn't and it's splitting the community), but because RedJew enterprise....
It defeats the point of linux where you can put together the kernel with a libc implementation, a userspace, a package manager and an init system of your choice and have the community experiment with the different implementations and variations
>>54970933
I LOVE MAKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Casual Linux user for the past couple of years here.
I have literally no problem with systemd. The beauty of the GNU Linux system is that it's a free and open platform. If you don't like centralization and big programs, you don't have to use a distro with that shit.
I choose to because I have no problem with that.
>>54966589
Hisa Takei > Maki Nishikino
Good thread.
>>54972852
Fuck off.
>>54971241
Why should a user have to bother with systemd? Users shouldn't be messing around with the init system.
Systemd is modular because the interfaces are stable and easy to replace. All you have to do is interpret the files in the same way systemd defines and you too can have a compatible system.
>>54972864
No, you should fuck off. This is a weeb site
>>54966621
Forever this. Change for the sake of change, but not knowing when to stop.
Because one day something better than systemd will come to the block as it inevitably happens with all software, and the Linux ecosystem will then be thrown into a limbo due to the inability to replace systemd.
And then OS X users and Windows users will laugh their asses off at Linux.
>>54966741
Yeah i installed pulse audio as a dependency and it took over my shit and now my audio doesn't work with out it. I too would like to know how to remove pulse audio cancer.
>>54966670
you think pulseaudio is bad
>implying xorg isn't a shit
>>54966589
because its too cozy for them
>>54972889
>Users shouldn't be messing wih the init system
And that is exactly why people dislike systemd
Unix has always been about having access to the whole system. You can choose not to deal with it, but if you ever feel you need to, there it is, it doesn't obscure away things to "protect" (read cripple) you.
This is what makes unix systems different from windows, which is effectively a black box. Systemd runs under a whole different philosophy: that you shouldn't mess with your system, no access, zero, nada, fuck you. Ask the devs for a feature and pray that they'll listen to you.
>>54966589
I hate weaboos more than systemd
>>54969654
fuck how the s6 name is annoying
the archive is polluted with smartphone shit cluttering up results
>>54966589
It's pretty much against the linux philosophy of "doing one thing well".
If you read "the cathedral and the bazar" you should know what I'm talking about, systemd is turning linux slowly into a monolithic system.
Also from a security point of view you create a single point of failure.
Also the devellopers are just "unfriendly" to put it nicely.
Also we had a startup process that worked perfectly fine.
Also systemd is not that mature and does a lot of wierd stuff.
Also it creates adependance, if someone writes a "better systemd" in a few years he will have a very hard time replacing it, because it's already ingrained so much.
Quite a few reasons:
>Main developer is a prat previously known for a bad replacement made for something that worked worked really well
>Extreme feature creep, developers keep adding in features nobody except they themselves ever wanted a bootloader to do
Which is made worse by:
>Horrendously monolithic structure (if anything goes wrong the whole thing goes wrong)
>Developers known to have a who-gives-a-fuck attitude to bugs being reported
>Single massive point of failure due to how much this one monolithic piece of software tries to do
Which is pretty bad when:
>Developers known to be completely careless about security
>>54970933
I love Maki!!!!!
>>54966589
I hate systemd but I LOVE MAKI!!
MAKI MAKI GIMMI SUM FAKI
>>54966589
It's literally the next X11 mess in the making. Adding a shitty designed feature to systemd takes Poettering 1 week, getting it back out of the Linux ecosystem will take people 30 years.
>>54980890
How? She's the least likeable out of that shit anime
>>54968562
I still don't use pulseaudio or gnome, they're still fucking shit
>>54981091
Op is keeping the thread alive by bumping it every few hours, Just stop posting. He only wants to keep a maki thread on g, he's a piece of shit.
STOP REPLYING TO THIS THREAD
>>54981091
Because she's CUTE!
>>54982587
Fuck you I'm not OP.
>paid MS shills working overtime
The fuck happened? Is Microsoft mad over all the fucking bad press over Win10 and reacting not by FIXING THEIR GODDAMN SHIT but attacking GNU again?
FUCK OFF, MICROSOFT. WE KNOW IT'S YOU MAKING THESE POSTS.
FUCKING 4CHAN, GO TO YOUR FUCKING IP BLOCK LISTS AND ADD EVERY MICROSOFT-OWNED IP. NOW.
https://github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428
>>54982778
>>54982785
Stop bumping this thread you fucks.
bump for interest
>>54966670
What really annoys me about PulseAudio is that it affects me even though I don't even use it.
Tons of software now jumps on PulseAudio and alsa support suffers or is completely dropped (see bluez for example)
>>54982778
systemd is not GNU
>>54976952
I'm pretty good at recognising Maki, and only because of you idiots. But I have no idea if this is it?
People that use systemd seem to like maki. What does this mean?
>>54983189
that Arch-loving weeb ricers defend systemd because their distro happens to use it and they're too dumb to do anything about it or even understand the problems with it?
using debian in my VMs whole life
suddenly jessie have this systemd crap.
system suddenly starts to behave differently
dhclient ethX -> systemctl now complains about fucking samba
just fuck my shit up senpai
>>54971241
you said it very well anon.
>>54966589
I love maki! Sexiest tomato!!!
>>54983791
:^)
>>54983439
DELETE THIS
Maki is best girl, lain is shit.
>>54966589
POO
>>54966589
Because it's a non-solution to a non-problem and is bug-ridden compared to the alternative/s.
t. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11782364
Systemd is shit, but there are distros that don't use it, such as Gentoo and Slackware. There's also the BSDs. Vote with your feet.
Maki
If all the maki threads keep getting deleted why is this one still here?
>>54985918
One of the other Maki threads just got bonked. I don't expect this one to be around for long.
I do hope it's not deleted, though. There has been some good discussion on systemd.
>>54985963
But maki threads have been spammed all morning and last night and this one is still here?
Wtf mods...
>>54985978
This is a good thread, I guess?
This is now a thread about how to use Linux without systemd malware.
http://without-systemd.org has a list of distros that don't use systemd.
It seems that it's possible to modify Debian, or move to our good friend Gentoo.
Also, (when) will systemd finally be removed from mainstream distros?
>>54966589
>Why people here hate systemd?
Complete lack of simplicity. Code is unauditable. Adds complexity. Removes a few low-level choices. Some software that depends on it now won't run on "similar" platforms. Log files are a joke. The list goes on and on.
>>54967042
There is a half-truth in there that makes people uncomfortable.
>>54968562
>Penny to a pound the average "anti-systemd linux purist" wouldn't even KNOW HOW TO CHECK IF IT WAS INSTALLED.
Not a purist here, just someone that wants things done their way. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out - that is, if I had a system that was running it.
>>54968777
There's some of this too, but while he's a raging/flaming asshole, the software design is still overkill.
>>54980962
You could leave anyday. Only those who are too afraid would stick with what came out of the box.
>>54987274
>http://without-systemd.org has a list of distros that don't use systemd.
Useful, but only partially so.
>It seems that it's possible to modify Debian, or move to our good friend Gentoo.
You could try installing runit, and get a real education about how service management and daemons work. Or just stick with bliss and not give a shit.
Gentoo needs to work on their manual. Yes, there's a bazillion steps, but do I really give two shits about manually partitioning my drive (which I'm sick of doing anyways, even with cfdisk?)
>Also, (when) will systemd finally be removed from mainstream distros?
Never. Gnome3 & Co. will make sure of that, only because there are too many fucking retards that are still stuck in "must copy the popular kid" mode. We saw this before '00 with all the Windows 95 lookalike desktops, with OS X suddenly it's "let's make a poor man's aqua, and make it suck even more than OS X does". People want to look cool. They don't give two shits about actual work or play, which is what I use my machines for.
tldr People are too stuck on how it looks and not on how it can get shit done.
