Why does /g/ look down on web developers?
It's easy compared to real programming
They can't Fizzbuzz in Haskell
>>54912421[max(show x)(concat[n|(f,n)<-[(3,"Fizz"),(5,"Buzz")],mod x f==0])|x<-[1..100]]
CSS3 & HTML5 are the future.
success breeds jealousy
>>54912400
Kind of this. There are parts of web development that can get complicated, but these days pretty much anyone can learn a bit of HTML+CSS+JS, set up a blog, and go around calling themselves a web """"engineer"""", which people who do more rigorous software development or actual engineers feel makes their work less respectable.
>>54912382
same reason why /mu/ looks down on artpop, and /co/ looks down on cal-arts.
do know why, but certain entities trigger 4ch boards
Because they're always thinking of ways to inconvenience the user intentionally. No I do not want a shitty overlay ad or disabled right click.
it's boring and most of your time is spend on crud shit, the rest is fighting terrible tools/platforms
>>54912650
That describes pretty much all programming that isn't research oriented.
>>54912682
web dev is worse. but i look down on that programming also
>>54912650
>the rest is fighting terrible tools/platforms
Why is that once something works reliably across browsers they have to add new shit and break everything again?
Did management tell to fuck everything up or are they doing it on purpose?
>>54912509
Settle down ahmed
>>54912382
>look down
1. Partly Because I'm 6'1 and she's 5'4 at best
2. Mostly be she's attempting to dev on a computer that's off
>>54912382
Just jelly of the ones who get money
>>54912382
Because web devs don't solve problems, they create problems.
>>54912509
What exactly makas a software dev an engineer? I keep hearing that word tossed around everywhere.
>>54912382
Web Developers rarely build anything from scratch and couldn't if they tried. Prepackaged CMS are the foundation of most modern websites.
>>54912461
>Firefox crashes
Oh?
web dev is pervasive, will still be here in 20 years, can make smartphone apps and sometimes takes creativity/artistic talent. it's also done by mac users and pays ridiculous amounts.
>>54914535
Most programmers don't even code their own OS or compiler. Any of them could create Windows or GNU/Linux or Visual Studio or XCode in their free time, but they're lazy.
That's you, you sound like that.
>>54912582
>Because they're always thinking of ways to inconvenience the user intentionally.
The web as we know, as we knew it, is being destroyed. It was bad enough when this shit started shitting all over desktop interfaces, but websites? Seriously?
Five more years of this and normies will abandon the web, move to even shittier apps, then forget about the whole thing. You read it here first.
>>54914496
There is already the programmer word specific to the computing field, I agree with you. Actual engineers that not only know about a bit of programming and electricity but also plenty of other shit must find it annoying.
>>54914535
wordpress is 400,000+ loc by itself. throw in plugins and themes and you'll hit 700,000, maybe 1,000,000 loc. are you honestly suggesting people write that much code just to start a blog? that doesn't include debugging and public auditing time. maybe you'd write your own http server, but sane people use apache/nginx.
>>54914644
So they studied 3 semesters of physics plus 1 semester of physics for engineers and now they're geniuses who can do anything? Please. Most engineers can't code.
all webdev jobs are about working on CRUD apps. If your IQ is above 100, you will get bored of that shit in about a week.
Unfortunately, those are also the majority of jobs available.
Because modern web design is done by graphic designers, not programmers.
It's slow and bloated with a half-dozen different JavaScript frameworks.
And now, to save money, companies are getting 1 person handle everything ("Full Stack"), rather than having 3 people that have skills in their respective areas (front-end, back-end, infrastructure), so you either end up with a nice-looking website that runs like shit or a shit-looking website that runs very well.
>>54914756
What if it's in Ruby?
>>54914697
more like a 4 year course including research and practical skills and then a few years training on the job
we learnt c,c++and matlab in my Mecheng course. We also do an algorithms unit so it shouldn't be too hard for an engineer to learn new languages.
>>54914644
I think most people know the difference between a proper accredited engineer and a web engineer so I'm not too fussed
>>54914622
Comparing something with millions of lines of code to a simple library.
Learn an actual language before you spew shit on the internet.
>>54914948
yeah, but the upper 2 years are highly focused on your specific major and usually aren't applicable outside of that field. your generic physics/calculus stuff is the only cross-over. do you think 3-4 coding courses is the same as a full degree? matlab isn't even coding, it's just equations masquerading as subroutines.
>>54914671
99% of it is for graphic design, the internal function is relatively simple.
>>54914756
>you either end up with a nice-looking website that runs like shit or a shit-looking website that runs very well.
This.
>>54915002
You were talking about prepacked CMS and I brought up Wordpress. libpcap is 55,000 loc and all it does is basic networking stuff. It's ridiculous to want people to reinvent wheels and put in all the debug time when there are mature options available. If you want to learn something and write a simple library just to get your brain wet, cool, but don't put that junk into production.
>>54914756
This. Look at the amount of optimization that goes into JavaScript engines (V8, SpiderMonkey). It's ridiculous, and web pages (pages, not games or something) are still slow and bloated.
>>54915067
>Wordpress
400,000 lines of code is obscenely bloated for a basic install. Sure, I get you might want to add functionality later but holy shit.
>>54914671
Wordpress is designed to handle all types of scenarios. Your own blog won't need all the features that Wordpress offers.
>>54915032
it takes a lot of code to implement all the functionality you see in ajax/php/mysql web apps. e.g. the wordpress post editor is very complex code (not in the difficult to understand sense) and you could easily mistake actual functions for graphic design.
>>54915139
>>54915150
Joomla is 333,000+ LoC. Drupal is 700,000+ LoC. Neither of those include plugins or themes. Modern CMSes are complex beasts with lots of features. You can call it feature bloat, but everyone else just likes being able to do stuff.
>>54914496
Nothing. Programmer =/= Software Developer =/= Software Engineer
>>54915300
Could you enlighten us about those differences?
>>54915024
Obviously we don't learn about data structures and other stuff computer science teaches but it's definitely more mathematically rigorous and we definitely learn more about real life models and error checking.
I don't know why people shit over MATLAB, it's good for data manipulation and making something work fast. Their packages are great for engineering purposes.
They are jealous that web developers have high paying jobs while /g/ can't get employed no matter how many obscure languages they can write FizzBuzz in.
>>54915330
Programmer: Is handed a detailed program design with all the "parts" of the program and their interactions lain out, and then writes code to turn those designs into something that runs
>Software Developer: Gets or creates software requirements, creates detailed designs from those requirements, and then hands those off to a programmer or does the programming themselves. May also function in project management roles too (risk analysis, resource planning, etc.) All Software Developers are also programmers by nature.
Software Engineer: Develops, tests, and creates new and unique software solutions to solve problems or increase efficiency over current methods. They use experimental data to determine optimal practices for software/hardware combinations and set technical standards for Developers and Programmers (obviously industry standards are effectively set by the devs and programmers in the field, often based on the standards provided by S. Engineers. Examples of this group would include Stroustrup et al, Stallman et al, and Linus Torvalds).
>>54915369
data structures, context free grammars, compiler design, os internals, networking protocols, database fundamentals, circuit logic and plenty of other things. a cs major could pick up some applied physics books and they do learn error checking, but only a few focus on stress testing.
>>54913194
I'm just explaining how /g/ feels about it from what I've seen, desu I don't really care much that it happens since I'm just in it for the money and don't even really think STEM careers are "goat tier" or whatever /g/ and /sci/ are calling it now.
>>54912509
Using a server side language is literally the same"normal programming".
>>54915933
NO!
If you can run it in a browser, it's WEB development aka pleb tier
If it's hello world in cmd, it's REAL software development
>>54916061
<?php
echo "WAKE ME UP"
?>
>> ITT neet`s
>>54912382
Envy.
Not because web development is insanely easy in itself (it is easier than "real" programming for various reasons), but because there are so many tools out there that automatically do shit, faggots who know fuck-all can make a good-looking website and claim they're some kind of developer
>>54912382
This is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my whole life.
>>54912400
>php
>javascript
>easy
Im currently doing computer engineering. At the end of my degree can I expect to be a software engineer, software developer or programmer? Or perhaps all of them?
>>54912702
This. I basically look down at all programming. If it ain't purely functional fizzbuzz it's shit.
>>54916305
that's only because you're intellectually inferior. you probably fancy yourselves similar to the social elite who didn't need to read or write around the time that literacy skyrocketed.
>>54914671
>wordpress is 400,000+ loc by itself
That's only if you include the 500MB of shitty Javascript dependencies node pulls in. Most of it being the same packages duplicated dozens of times because NPM is shit.
The core PHP app is much, much smaller.
>>54916191
Php was my first language. I'm doing python now and Php feels like cake walk imo.
>>54916321
> being this much of an autist
>>54916277
do you even know what CE is?
>>54912382
Because they deserve it
>>54916277
probably none of them unless you pick up extra skills, lgpcb.
>>54916344
I think PHP's retardedness has just permanently warped your brain
>>54916388
lol okay buddy, everyone who points out that you're literally too stupid to code must be autistic. keep up that martyr complex
>>54916389
yeah it's a combination of EE and CS
>>54916341
are you implying the javascript isn't part of the app or that the app will function normally without all that javascript?
>>54916411
Python isn't much better in terms of "retardedness."
>>54916436
are you naive about php or just naive about programming in general?
>>54916397
You deserve to die in a car fire
>>54916436
are you stating that theoretical computer science is more important than solving real world problems and getting business done?
>>54916447
They're both shit and Python is "better" in fairly insignificant ways.
>>54916458
The vast majority of business programming that solves real world problems is done in statically typed languages.
Dynamically typed languages are basically unused outside of shitty web development and exploratory data science programming.
>>54916173
she looks russian/slavic
>>54916492
you clearly have no idea how much glue code is out there.
>>54916492
>real world problems
this sounds like a pretty retarded value judgment that you've haplessly tucked into your post. anything that someone is willing to pay you money to fix/do is a valid real world problem in our society. that's how our economy works.
we're well past the point where most of us are ensuring food harvests work out and diseases don't kill us all, so it's fair to say that 99% of the work humanity does is not geared toward *real* problems as much as ones that are contrived through various hoops we've made up.
Because we actually have a jobs instead of rewriting fizzbuzz for 439th time in a new autistic language
