Emacs
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Pros and Cons?
pros
not using it
cons
using it
Pros:
- It's not vi
Cons:
-
>>54801491
Pros:
- Best fucking text editor ever created in the universe. - it is the piece of software that will earn us alien technology.
- Configurable
- Has a web browser built in
- It's an OS unto itself
vi > mg >>>>>>> abyss >>>>> emacs
>>54801868
This, the unlimited customization thanks to emacs lisp makes it a god tier text editor.
atom > all > russians > shit > indian > amerifat > emacs
I used to use vim but recently switched to emacs, with evil-mode it's essentially a better vim. Sure, it needs more resources, but having a built-in package manager and a real programming language (Lisp) for configuration is just so nice.
>>54801868
Cons: none
/thread
>>54802760
Atom or Sublime are the peak in text editor design.
Only an actual autist would think overengineering a fucking PLAIN TEXT EDITOR to the heights emacs or even vim gets is a good idea.
I've used ViM for 2 years and emacs for 6 years before that btw. Before that I used Sublime since I remember and now I use Atom.
>>54802761
This, was an avid vim user and fanatic. Tried out spacemacs, fell in love, made my own emacs configuration and never thought of switching back for my daily use. Still use vim over ssh though.
>>54803317
>atom
As if a whole statically linked fucking web browser could be considered a well engineered foundation for a text editor.
cons
reimplements the OS
>>54803317
>Atom
>send's usage statistics to Google Analytics by default
into the trash it goes
>>54802760
atom is fucking crap ripoff of Sublime Text.
It's unstable, slow, absolutely shit.
>pros
Can be extended to do anything
If you want something there likely is package for it already
Usually well documented
>cons
Single threaded
It's slow
There is a emacs back end implementation in guile which brings multithreading to emacs but I'm not sure if it's usable yet or if it ever will be.
>>54801491
>cons
Every plugin is unusably buggy, even the most popular ones like geyser.
The keybinds are borderline unusable and WILL give you WRSI if used for any amount of time. On the other hand, evil, which gives a very small subset of editing-only vim commands, doesn't work well with plugins and as previously stated, is beyond plain limited (cf. again shit plugins).
Concurrent*
>pros
Uses a lispy language for config and plugins
Support for multiple fonts in the same document
Support for image rendering
Concurrent*
*Concurrent is a good idea in theory but the way it's implemented it just means that a plugin that goes rogue will DoS you and your only recourse will be to terminate the emacs program. No command inside emacs will let you halt the rogue plugin, even C-c C-c C-c. Compare to vim, which has no concurrency: you're guaranteed that pressing C-c will halt the currently running plugin.
VIM!
>>54803317
>I've never used a text editor: the post
>>54803348
Why don't you use tramp?
>>54804724
Last time that I had to maintain a project with some Guile extensions it was total garbage (it's was hell to use profilers and debuggers as Guile was shitting everywhere), that's too bad if they are serious about that.
>>54805064
Guile is a piece of shit. It is great in user-facing design, but chuckfull of massive backend issues and undocumented gotchas, including stuff like literals being modifiable, but the compiler optimizing them so they all refer to the same instance even despite this. So your empty vector literal is actually a non-empty vector literal at the time of binding because some other function modified an object that was bound initially to the empty vector literal.
Not to mention that the GC is absolute ass and never actually collects the garbage on time, ending up leaking fuckloads of memory on many repeated allocation scenarios.
emacs is fucking terrible when it comes to actually getting a fullscreen session to work, it never fills up the entire screen
>>54805309
M-F11 just werks.
>>54801491
>Pros
It makes vimtards butthurt.
>Cons
It ONLY makes them butthurt and doesn't make them burst into flames.
>>54805406
it still leaves a few pixels at the bottom
maximizing also has a similar problem but it leaves even MORE pixels
Vim, because I prefer single keystrokes to chords.
Sure, I can use Vim mode in Emacs but I don't really need it for anything other than simple text editing.
>>54805449
It works for me. Also I meant just the F11 key.
Though I do see some a bit of the scrollbar in the minibuffer after I unmaximize.
pros:
it's really, really good with evil-mode
org-mode is amazing
it's so easy to customize and develop for
cons:
some plugins are really, really bad. Like, emacs users that don't actually use a plugin try to port it and the result is unusable.
web-mode is an abomination.
>using a text editor on steroids instead of a proper IDE
>>54801868
Cons:
- Has a web browser built in
- It's an OS unto itself
I just want a text editor.
>>54804724
>Single threaded
99% of the time you can solve this problem by delegating computationally heavy work to subprocesses.
>It's slow
Compared to what? Atom? Eclipse?
>>54805626
>I just want a text editor.
Try Notepad.
"but I want syntax highlighting and lots of plugins!"
So you actually do want a powerful program like Emacs after all?
>>54805857
Emacs has stuff like a Tetris clone and a file archiver. Vim does not have that.
If I wanted a Tetris clone, I would install it with apt-get.
Pros
>>54801868
Magit
Cons
Most people, like the following dimwits, can't understand it.
>>54801573
>>54802629
>>54802760
>>54803317
>>54804057
>>54805893
If that bothers your autism, just delete it. Unlike Vim which comes with a file manage compiled into it, almost everything in Emacs is shipped as separate files that you can delete if you don't want and aren't loaded if you don't use them.
But you have to load Vim's Python, Lua, Ruby support, spell checking, netrw, and all that junk compiled into the binary every time you start Vim, even if you don't use them.
>>54805827
>99% of the time you can solve this problem by delegating computationally heavy work to subprocesses.
This
Emacs 25 is going to have better support for native submodules, which will make this type of thing a whole lot easier
>using Emacs
Ouch, ouch, ouch!
I've been using emacs for about a year for C and python development, and it has been excellent so far.
How is emacs for Java development, though? Is it any better than a few years ago?
emacs-eclim is dog slow because of eclipse and has its own hacked-together error reporting system instead of using standard flycheck
Are there any better alternatives yet?
>>54805107
Was this experience Guile 2.0 or earlier? 2.0 fixed a lot of problems.
>>54806033
> Not remapping caps lock as control.
>>54806036
For Java it is not especially competitive with specialized editors like eclipse. The kind of people who like using emacs would rather use a language that does not require the level of editor support that Java needs.
>>54806033
>>54806052
i kind of want one of those "hacking keyboards" that have the control key there
>>54806052
shitty solution IMO
It is a MUCH better idea to learn how to properly use the left/right ctrl keys together, there is a reason why all non-shit keyboards have both a right ctrl and right alt.
Curl your pinkie to hit the ctrl key on the OPPOSITE side of the key that goes with it.
For example, if you want to hit Ctrl-C, press ctrl with your right hand's curled pinkie.
>>54806119
Works poorly with large hands.
When emacs was designed, popular keyboard layouts had control very where caps lock is today.
>2030
>programming is a required K-12 course
"Dad, I passed Emacs class today! I got an A+!"
>>54806148
>When emacs was designed, popular keyboard layouts had control very where caps lock is today.
I was under the impression that the keyboards of that time simply had ctrl and alt switched around
>>54806150
Computer science was required course at my HS.
What does that mean, exactly? Put together a shitty Hypercard stack on a bunch of old iMacs running OS 9.
Do you think a mandatory CS class for a general population will ever be better than this?
>>54806083
Yeah, I agree.
I don't want to, but I'll have to work with Java for some time now. Is there any other way of getting decent java support onto emacs, or will I have to learn to use something like eclipse or intellij?
>>54806176
>rub out
>>54806176
>>54806197
Other way: write it yourself, if you are fluent in emacs lisp.
>>54806236
Emacs wasn't designed for that keyboard. Lisp Machines used space cadet.
The pinky is literally the weakest finger, why would you move the control key from being pressed with your pinky to... being pressed with your pinky?
Under the thumb is logically the best place to put it.
>>54806197
>Is there any other way of getting decent java support onto emacs, or will I have to learn to use something like eclipse or intellij?
Look, Java isn't really a programming language. When you need that level of IDE support, you're really working with something like assembly or machine code. You aren't looking for a text editor, you're looking for a "Java machine code" editor.
Emacs >Atom > Nano > Zile > Cat > Shit > Russian > Notepad.exe > VI > Vim
>pros
You'll want to do everything inside Emacs
>cons
You'll want to do evlerything inside Emacs
Now for real: you'll find out you can carry most of your tasks inside emacs and so you'll be able to use it for nearly everything, switching between buffers with uniform keybindings. You'll browse the manuals in it, you'll even have a shell, irc client, and if you want you can use dired to browse through directories. There's also magit and org-mode.
But you might get too hyped about this and forget it's a text editor. So you'll go and try to use emacs for browsing the web.
Which is not a good move. Emacs is text-oriented. While it can draw pictures, browsing the web in it is just impractical.
There is also other software that you might be used to that won't work in emacs properly. reading pdfs in emacs is awkward and a resource hog. And using tools such as top(1) doesn't work with regular buffers and should be done with a special ansi-term emulator (namely M-x ansi-term).
But it is highly configurable so there's a lot that can be configured if you want to. Elisp is way better than VimL (or so I heard) though it is too an ancient lisp in itself.
>>54806307
Oh come on, let's at least agree that emacs and vi(m) are the top of the food chain.
>not just having a fullscreen X terminal with vi/mg and tmux
>>54801491
Emac is the Google Chrome of text editors.
>>54806268
Pinky, with no reach, is better than pinky, with a big reach.
My thumbs sit in the middle of the space bar.
>>54806037
I'm >>54805064
Migrated to Guile 2, still experiencing this kind of stuff.
>>54806424
> some Guile extensions
Guile to extend some C program, rather than some C libraries to extend Guile? This is undoubtedly part of the problem. I know the manual explicitly suggests this, but it is a stupid suggestion.
Continuing >>54806462
This is something the Python folks get right.
>>54801491
> pros
it does everything
>cons
badly
>>54806291
wat
>>54806409
Your fault for using a keyboard with a giant wasted space bar. Even worse than two inch bezels around your screen.
Another pro
AucTeX + auto-fill-mode + reftex + flyspell-mode
The shit my collaborators do without these things is fucking awful when you're editing the .tex file. First step is always to apply these things to clean it up.
Is it worth learning if I know vim pretty well already?
>>54806550
Who makes a keyboard with reasonable short spacebar? Very interested.
>>54806554
You can combine some of the stuff you like about vim with evil-mode
>>54806317
>browsing the web in it is just impractical
That may be the case right now, but Emacs 25 is going to get a full-fledged webkit-based graphical browser that fully supports javascript.
If you are interested, compile emacs yourself from the current git version, and enable xwidgets support. Then, you can browse the web graphically from emacs with xwidget-webkit-browse-url
>>54806577
>Emacs 25 is going to get a full-fledged webkit-based graphical browser that fully supports javascript.
you can't be serious
good god what the fuck
>>54806609
As a nice side effect, you also get to embed GTK gui widgets right inside a regular buffer
>>54806566
The Japanese, and split keyboards.
>>54806609
Basically Emacs is getting an Atom emulator.
That's actually kind of smart, it means that Emacs will be able to do anything Atom can do, seeing as how Atom is taking off with normalfags lately.
>>54806462
I did not choose this solution.
I'm now looking forward to remove all this cruft, I honestly think there wasn't any real need in the first place.
By the way, do you know some other nice embeddable languages (other than the well known Lua, Python, JavaScript, ...)? Looking for something lightweight that I may have missed.
>>54806236
Lisp machine keyboards had ctrl/meta/super/hyper keys at bottom of keyboard next to space bar, same general location as they are on PC's today. They were just more sanely arranged than current PC keyboards, ctrl was right next to space so you used your thumbs. Ctrl next to a is merely second best option.
>>54806609
How else are the guys that run emacs as their window manager gonna get full web browsing?
>>54806176
>>54806268
The original Emacs ran on PDP-10 ITS. You can tell it wasn't designed for the Lisp machine because its meta was handled as a prefix rather than a real modifier ("M- M-" was used for what M-x is today).
Even if we're talking about the Lisp Machine, that keyboard had directional keys, so the ctrl keys were not nearly as significant.
>>54806743
Well, strictly speaking, Emacs was designed for ttys, not keyboards.
The fact that you were only able to send two dozen control characters plus escape ("meta") limited how you could design an interactive program. IMO vi's approach of making regular letters commands is better.
Thankfully, GNU/Emacs has a superior design which makes it trivial to redesign it with vi style controls (Evil mode).
emacs is a system, its not just an editor, anyone who only knows the vim level of cursor movement and file opening hotkeys does not know emacs. A lot of the hotkeys handle IDE related things that people in vim never dreamed of. In vim all functionality is in the .vimrc file or plugins, it takes a package manager to handle vim plugins and you still end up with key binding clashes. It takes a huge investment in time to learn emacs which is only worth it in certain kinds of programming languages and programming environments. For me its not worth the investment in time to learn emacs only because I cant stand how Richard Stallman spams his free software slogans everywhere, including the command buffer when you start emacs. When Stallman dies (hopefully soon) emacs might turn into a more professional project.
>>54801491
>pros
faster than typing in notepad
>cons
most bloated piece of software every written
forget about using "someone else's emacs"
you have to learn a programming langauge for a tex editor
made by stallcuck
spend days to make a configuration that suits all your needs, once you install it somwhere else you have to sdo the same shit again
a fuckzillion of commands
not vim
>>54806679
>Hyper super meta
>>54806577
>webkit
no please no, don't rape emacs please
+
It's a nice OS
-
It lacks a good text editor
>>54801491
+ has a nice web browser
+ tetris
+ very extendable
- defaults aren't sane
- text editor is pretty shit
- bloated
>>54806671
Some of the other scheme solutions (tiny scheme, etc.) are not bad, but are not (bytecode) compiled like Guile.
Python should not ever be embedded. Even the Python fans will not be grateful.
Did Lua once. It's ok, but you'll get sick of the stack really, really fast.
>>54806633
Does this mean I can write browser-AddOns in Elisp? Think of the possibilities!
reminder to install vim keybindings onto your browser, vimium for chrome
It has a builtin psychiatrist you can talk to about your problems
Emacs is 95% cons though, since it's all elisp and built with cons-cells
>>54807792
kek
>>54806866
>Richard Stallman spams his free software slogans everywhere, including the command buffer when you start emacs.
lmao
(cons nil nil)
> op = btfo
>>54808023
idgi, it just returns a vagina
Pros:
Just werks
Versatile
Cons:
Complex
>>54806866
>Richard Stallman spams his free software slogans everywhere
Even though I love emacs, I highly dislike this trait from rms
I watched a TED talk given by stallman, guess what it was about. Yeah you guessed.
And afaik (at least what I've picked up statistically) the point of TED talks is about useful insighful stuff you can put to use or whatever, and it is largely undependant of the talker's occupation. rms just used it to push his agenda
>>54809085
>that one presentation where he suddenly implies how butthurt he is because linus programmed linux
>>54806835
>Well, strictly speaking, Emacs was designed for ttys, not keyboards.
True, but the space cadet keyboards were designed for emacs.
>>54805983
Vim's python, lua, ruby, and racket systems are all separate from vim itself. Nice try, macfag.
>>54806037
That was with guile 2.0, yes.
Just use an IDE you contrarian edgelords
>>54807460
>>>/tumblr/
>his emacs init file isn't written in org mode
>>54809085
>I watched a TED talk given by stallman, guess what it was about. Yeah you guessed.
He declared himself that he had stopped doing anything technical years ago in favor of full time activism. I don't know what you were expecting.
>>54801491
Pros:
- It's a pretty good operating system
Cons:
- It's still missing a text editor
>>54811892
it has a good text editor, it's called evil
the problem is i dont like the operating system itself so i just use vi or vim
