>Prof bans the use of any IDEs in the lab
>Only allows us to use vim/emacs and GCC
>I ask him why
>Laughs in my face and says IDEs promote sloppy programming and bad habits
>Says I have it easy because back when he started he used punchcards
>mfw this idiot is teaching programming
Now hundreds of fizzbuzzers will angrily post saying that a text editor and a compiler is all you need.
You don't need an IDE for C
>>54702748
He's teaching programming, yes. Unfortunately programming won't be particularly useful to you in your career of being a code monkey, where you'll just bash your face on the keyboard until the result passess the unit tests someone else wrote for you.
>>54702748
He's not wrong though.
IDEs promote not thinking about your code but just typing and using the suggestions.
For college size projects you shouldn't *need* an IDE because it will be pretty self contained.
And the refactoring stuff also suggests not thinking before working. So for a learning experience I think IDEs are actually bad. For working, things change quite a bit.
>>54702773
In theory, it IS all you need. In a real world enviroment, having an IDE helps you a lot. Teacher surely is one of those "hurr durr in my times everything was better"
>go to india
>no computers
>cs taught using pencil and paper
>10 year old textbooks
>instructors with forged certificates
You think YOUR professor has it tough
>>54702748
Are you paying to attend that class? I would ask for my money back.
>things that never happened
my prof forced us to use MS word and find a way to convert it to plaintext so we could compile it
>>54702748
Consider yourself lucky.
There emacs and vim (and maybe gedit, but it was kind of a jock) were the only editors installed on our lab computers.
And the teacher had the habit to take all the mouses.
>>54702830
No wonder Indians are so fucking bad at it
>>54702877
Did they at least give out foot pedals to the emacs users?
>>54702748
>all these people agreeing with the professor
The problem with programmers today is they fixate on what they like and shun everything else when it should be fixate on anything programming because it's fucking interesting.
Programming went from personal interest and excitement to, "what's the biggest money making app these days?"
>>54702898
emacs -nw works actually pretty well.
>baby needs his IDE to hand hold him
>>54702830
one my community college classes taught the fundamentals of Javascript in this method. To be fair though, it was a low level class worth 2 credits, and the teacher was actually a Pajeet. We then "converted" our writings to a shitty IDE like Blue J, at home.
Literally the worst experience I ever had in school. Maybe it was just Blue J though.
>>54702898
>not using evil mode for emacs
>>54702748
Question is pajeet, why do YOU need an IDE ?.
>>54702903
He's not wrong though. It forces you to think about your code more than an IDE. There's nothing wrong with either way of programming. For basic C, you should have no problem using a text editor.
That being said, I like IDEs because I can constantly compile and make sure nothing is fucked. I don't know if you can do similar in VIM because I've never used it kek.
>>54702748
>make a living writing tools and algorithms to make complex work simpler
>refuse to use tools that make your own work simpler
I'll never understand this mentality in programmers
>>54702748
>IDE
Dijkstra never used computers, and he contributed more to CS than anyone.
>Despite having invented much of the technology of software, Dijkstra eschewed the use of computers in his own work for many decades. Even after he succumbed to his UT colleagues' encouragement and acquired a Macintosh computer, he used it only for e-mail and for browsing the World Wide Web.[104] Dijkstra never wrote his articles using a computer. He preferred to rely on his typewriter and later on his Montblanc pen.[105] Dijkstra's favorite writing instrument was the Montblanc Meisterstück fountain pen. He repeatedly tried other pens, but none ever displaced the Montblanc.
>He had no use for word processors, believing that one should be able to write a letter or article without rough drafts, rewriting, or any significant editing. He would work it all out in his head before putting pen to paper, and once mentioned that when he was a physics student he would solve his homework problems in his head while walking the streets of Leiden.[15] Most of Dijkstra's publications were written by him alone. He never had a secretary and took care of all his correspondence alone.[106] When colleagues prepared a Festschrift for his sixtieth birthday, published by Springer-Verlag, he took the trouble to thank each of the 61 contributors separately, in a hand-written letter.[107]
>>54703000
I want the devops to go.
![slobodkin2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NYPwQUK.jpg "slobodkin2[1].jpg")
>>54702814
He should also ban paper and writing implements since they promote inconsistency by allowing you to erase mistakes. All note taking should be done using stone slabs and chisels.
And they should do away with electricity and air conditioning as well. Back in my day everyone learned in a single room lit by candles. All these newfangled inventions make you soft.
>>54702879
They're mostly bad at it because they barely grasp the language of the person handing out their assignments and don't actually comprehend what's being assigned to them.
I'm sure the schools play into it, but in my experience it's really the language barrier.
>LOL WHO NEEDS SYNTAX HIGHLIGHTING FUCKING KIDS THESE DAYS
>>54703000
You're right, both sides of programming are okay, but the professor is saying that IDE's are shit when they should be embraced as their own concept instead of grouped in this ambiguous definition of programming the professor has created.
>needing an IDE for schoolwork
just drop out now.
> Syntax and error highlighting are bad and waste time
>>54703109
vim and emacs do this though
>>54702948
>converted Javascript to Blue J, a Java IDE.
Who is the real Pajeet in this story?
>>54703147
Both vim and emacs are god tier.
>>54702748
>>Laughs in my face and says IDEs promote sloppy programming and bad habits. Says I have it easy because back when he started he used punchcards
Old people today still living in his weird habits of 70s
>>54703046
>When colleagues prepared a Festschrift for his sixtieth birthday, published by Springer-Verlag, he took the trouble to thank each of the 61 contributors separately, in a hand-written letter.
He seriously must've loved that fountain pen.
>>54703147
And they are IDEs. At least Emacs is.
>>54703182
read the OP at least
>>54703066
>I'm going to type some stupid extremist strawman
If he banned things because they're too easy sure, he's being a dick. But he's banning things that generate code or fix mistakes for you which makes no sense in a class. You're not learning programming if by pressing a button in Eclipse it fixes 200 errors.
In a lab I can kind of get IDEs, but in tests they almost always restrict you to simple editors.
>>54703182
also, its a text editor, not ide
>>54703141
>>54703109
>But moooooooooooooooooooom, I need syntax and error highlighting for hello world!!!!
I see 'web development general' posting in your near future gentlemen.
>>54703221
>But he's banning things that generate code or fix mistakes for you
So they just invented an IDE that solves the halting problem. That's news to me.
>>54703229
Do you also code blindfolded with your toes only?
>>54703221
not even that. The point of an IDE is how it eases the management and organization of large projects. When you're writing fizz buzz in javascript, an ide just gets in the way
>>54703177
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD
Put it this way, he used a fountain pen to write about 500 articles
In my intro to c++ class we didn't use ides either. Pretty sure it's standard practice to only use a text editor in a class. I used notepad++ and had no issue completing assignments, that was my first time programming. So suck it up, and deal with it.
>>54703177
>fountain pen
Lol what a pussy, REAL programmers smear poo on paper with their fingers
>>54703229
> lol, all you faggots do is hello world
> I've graduated to the glorious fizz buzz
Why don't you try some professional work, kiddo?
>>54703015
I actually don't use IDEs because I feel they make the task more complex. Most seem to have a very confusing interface, and I feel like they try to hide the build system from me.
>>54702748
>GCC
>>54703353
geez it's almost like we're talking about schoolwork here or something
>>54703245
>>54703353
>I need an IDE to wipe my chin for me
>bro, but I need auto-complete
Yes. Yes. You are correct little one.
>>54703480
there is autocomplete on vim and emacs as well though.
Seems like a lot of people actually like IDE's here.
Can someone explain why?
I mean I get the appeal of the intelligent editor, but that is not what I am talking about.
Some is worse than others in this regard, but they all come with some sort of horrible tiling beast, where you get a lot of windows tiled in a way so you can't see what is on any of them.
Why?
Why aren't they just letting the window manager handle that for the users?
Because it is never done in a sensible way.
I assume that I am not the only one who wants to view the code in fullscreen, maybe I could sacrifice a small portion to show a detailed error message at the same time as I see where the error is, but anything more and it gets unusable.
Am I alone in this line of thinking?
>>54703701
It's great when you're working with a large set of files or APIs.
And a good IDE lets you put the text editor in fullscreen...
>>54702948
Using Blue J in Java course at uni, can confirm for pajeet-poo-in-the-loo tier ide. Wish i don't have to take the course, but is obligatory for the degree
Because this is America <3 And IDEs are never the answer ;(
Because this is America <3 And IDEs are never the answer ;( Please give up life and try suicide Sorry bud
>>54703701
no makefiles
>>54703789
what?
>>54702748
You can use an IDE later if you get a programming job, OP. Try to learn something from this instead of whining on a listserv for Lithuanian recipes. And have some respect for yourself and for history.
>>54703789
Most people use cmake or qmake anyway, that is not something that is exclusive to an IDE.
it is a good idea to have a strong foundation before using an IDE. You are learning to program, not be a code monkey.
>>54703229
>dissing on /wdg/
C'mon man, we're the future of computing.
R-right?
>>54702748
>forcing GCC
I'd leave just for that alone
>>54702748
IMHO, feel free to debate on this, but i think for cs101/102 you should only be able to use a text editor and your compiler. It helps you truly understand why things work at first rather than your ide doing them for you. Maybe its just because thats how my uni was.
emacs is worth learning though
>>54703984
what autistic compiler would you choose and why would it matter
>>54704023
That's also the right way to do it because IDEs are totally useless at that level
>>54704117
It's just a shill, don't reply.
>>54703326
Pajeet pls
>>54704137
yep exactly! if you're learning basic control flow you don't need an IDE, but people still use them because they have build in error checking, but then they fail the tests because tehy can't write basic shit out by hand. Oh well, more jobs for us.
>>54702748
That's the right way. You can use an ide after you've learned it the hard way. Using vim and similar forces you to actually think about what you're programming rather than shitting out code quickly.
>>54704420
>forces you to actually think about what you're programming
>spend two hours of googling trying to find the keyboard combination to refactor a block of code
>>54704500
if you have to refactor anything that's not search and replace in a school size "learn how to program" project, you didn't think about your code and are the reason that statemant is valid.
>>54703326
you can fuck right off to reddit with a pathetic sense of humor like that.
>>54704535
>school size "learn how to program" project
Is the most complex program you wrote in school fizzbuzz?
>you didn't think about your code
In the real world, specifications change. In the real world, you need to change other people's shitty code.
If you don't learn the functionality of at least 1 IDE, you're setup to fail in the real world.
>>54703243
stop spouting popsci shit, code generation is not impossible
>>54704686
complexity =/= size
>>54704686
And I'm pretty sure you don't need to go to school to learn how to use an IDE
>>54704725
>being pedantic
>conveniently skipping over all of the important points
>>54702748
What does he think of sublime text?
>>54702773
I use VS2013 with ReSharper at work and no, I don't think it's better than a properly extended vim.
It does use 200x as much memory though.
I honestly can't go back to a bloated IDE after using sublime
>>54704753
You don't need to go to school to learn about anything. But if you're going to school to learn how to program professionally, then you shouldn't waste your time learning the hard way before the easy and realistic way.
>>54704849
uh, no.
You don't learn how to code by learning how to use an IDE. That's two different things
>dumbass professor says we have to use Eclipse
>do everything in vim
>have the highest grade in the class
who /smug/ here?
The only thing I like about IDEs is the ability to press a button and have the compiler check for errors / do a quick test run and figure out runtime errors. For home programming I always just used a text editor. I do like my mouse support though; I dislike using the keyboard as text input AND control device. Maybe that will change in the future but not for now.
At work I use Eclipse because the program I'm maintaining is fuckhuge and simple interpreter and subversion integration is convenient.
>>54703757
>working with large files or APIs
>APIs
Ohoho, the ugly head of the hipster 'programmers' rears it ugly head once again.
whats the matter baby cant code without an IDE to hold his wittle hand?
>>54704882
You went to a shit school.
>>54704899
The point is that using something like Vim will get in your way when you're still learning to program. An IDE simplifies the process and if you have the patience, you can learn Vim later. If you're not programming something large enough to require an IDE, then you are going to a shit school.
>>54703789
>no makefiles
What do you think these IDEs do in the backend? Wow, these neo-programmers are babby tier.
>>54704967
>not writing your code directly to disc using pins
>professor allows us to use whatever IDE or editor we want
>it doesn't matter as long as the program is good
i know it's a strange and confusing idea, /g/
>>54703958
Of course you are, even if you aren't you'll still get a participation trophy.
>>54702814
How do IDE's promote not thinking about my code?
I use an IDE on a daily basis and have since starting to program.
The most important feature is it makes me type faster. That's it. I can use descriptive variable names because ANameLikeThis auto completes after ana and I don't have to explicitly remember variable names.
Of course, something catching errors as you type must be bad compared to writing everything out and then getting 100 errors at the end and not realizing they all are happening because the 1 error and getting discouraged because that's "real" programming.
>>54705019
er, the other way around actually. Vim is a clean straightforward application whereas an IDE provides a bunch of unnecessary cruft and abstraction that provides no benefit to the beginner programmer.
If you can't be bothered to learn how to issue commands from an command line then you don't have enough time to learn what the output directory structure is of the IDE either...
![1463482533379[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JcsAlUu.jpg "1463482533379[1].jpg")
>>54705067
woah looks like you answered your own question there, buddy
>an IDE is just a text editor with an “execute compile batch script” button
>implying you will ever need this
>>54703000
If you are asking if you can turn VIM or Emacs into a pseudo IDE then the answer is yes you can, but then what the fuck is the point of not just letting people use IDE's?
>>54704500
I don't understand new programmers trying to force people to do it their way, instead of learning how its actually done properly.
Its like a basketball novice telling people to shoot underhanded from 2 feet away, just cause its easier for them, instead of learning to shoot the ball properly from anywhere on the court.
>>54705019
There is no reason to work on something that large outside of some final year project
The only thing an IDE is good for is code completion and a search function if you organize your code using modules/namespaces. But the same can be achieved with a good editor and some plugins. So there is no need for all the other bloat. A good light/responsive editor will make you much more productive and less annoying.
I was forced to use Eclipse at work and that was hell. IntelliJ improved the experience a bit when we switched over, but it is still bloated. The only thing that made it run decently is giving it 2GB of RAM and disabling a bunch of shit, which renders it as useful as a text editor with plugins.
>2GB ram just to view and edit code
>2016
>>54705114
They take too long to load for starters
>>54704686
>If you don't learn the functionality of at least 1 IDE, you're setup to fail in the real world.
Wow this is almost like those facebook post that people laugh at here.
>>54703229
Implement a hash table in your 4chan comment in C++ and then let's all compile it and see if it actually works with no mistakes :^)
>>54705074
You are objectively wrong. An IDE has discoverability while Vim doesn't.
>>54702748
>professor is right
>anon gets mad
How is this not in the news?
>>54705067
>Of course, something catching errors as you type must be bad compared to writing everything out and then getting 100 errors at the end and not realizing they all are happening because the 1 error and getting discouraged because that's "real" programming
>>54704686
>Is the most complex program you wrote in school fizzbuzz?
No, but if you need something to help you think with everything >fizzbuzz you are set up to fail
>In the real world, specifications change. In the real world, you need to change other people's shitty code.
Which is a completely different skill to producing *good* code.
I agree with you an the difference to "real world" use cases, but if you uni is shitting out workers and not academics it's doing things wrong.
>>54705067
>The most important feature is it makes me type faster. That's it
Vim is orders of magnitude faster than any IDE could ever be.
>>54702830
the thing is there are computers.
people don't use it because it will affect studying about computers.
rote learning is why they are roting
>>54705185
what does that even mean?
You're going to school for fuck sake, if you can't be bothered to even read up on how to use applications that will save you time in the future, then why even bother?
>>54705121
>learning how it's done properly
>implying >10% of professional programmers don't use an IDE
>>54705121
An IDE is fundamentally a text editor with a debugger, compiler and sometimes code generation tools.
If I download all these, I didn't learn anything more than if I had just used an IDE.
Furthermore, I was forced to learn on some shitty text editor, so when I went into my first internship and was printing shit out for bugs, my boss laughed at me and then had to teach me how to actually use a debugger and step through code, because this stupid "ONLY USE A TEXT EDITOR OR YOU CAN'T PROGRAM" meme made me think things like that didn't even exist.
So fuck off faggot. There is no reason not to use an IDE if you actually want to function in reality and don't care about being a "purist" for the sake of it, considering there is fundamentally no difference between being a purist and not being a purist here.
clang's error messages are much more meaningful than GCC's and emacs' plugin is much better.
Forcing students to use inferior compiler is just stupid.
>>54705248
most of those programmers are maintaining and working with a large codebase
>>54705218
I don't even use an IDE to write code, I use sublime text. Visual Studio is always open for debugging though.
>>54705126
You went to a shit school.
>>54705151
>autistic NEET programmers actually believe this
>>54705250
If you know how to use GDB then you should be able to quickly learn how to insert breakpoints in any IDE
>>54705290
Waterloo isn't bad
>>54705265
I'm all for never exposing people to tools for arbitrary reasons like "only professionals use it" when their goal generally is to become a professional, just so they can "learn" something.
People go to school for a CS degree. Not a "learn what it was like programming in the 70's" degree. They don't want to be "hip 70's styled hackers." They want to learn about data structures and algorithms and implement them and they should do that in the environment most comfortable to them.
>>54702748
>but mooom, the teacher is making us write with pencils, says touching smartphone keyboards doesn't count...
>>54704647
fuck off pajeet
>>54703595
but they are optional, only if your a faggot
>>54705067
>I don't have to explicitly remember variable names
And this is why millenials are shit. They can't even be bothered to memorize the 3 variables in their shitty fizzbuzz 'app'.
>>54705312
and most people going for a CS degree are smart enough to learn how to use an IDE on their own time
>>54705342
I work on large code bases professionally. Keep throwing out baseless attacks though, it will get you far.
>>54705342
You only need one in fizzbuzz though.
>>54705344
So then they are smart enough to learn how to use something but too dumb to learn how to program unless they explicitly only do it in a text editor?
>>54705342
jesus christ so condescending. you've obviously never worked on anything more complex than fizzbuzz or some shitty hobby program.
>>54705163
>implying anon even knows what a hash table is
>>54705200
An IDE lets you spend more time focusing on how to program than using a text editor.
>>54705226
You're going to school to learn how to program professionally. You don't need to waste time learning a fancy text editor.
>>54705226
Now I understand why people fail to do simple programs on a whiteboard - they can't even program without auto-complete.
>>54705342
>3 variables for fizz buzz
Kek
>>54705379
They're smart enough not to waste their time dicking around with an IDE to pump out a simple BST traversal algorithim
>>54703763
Oh fuck me I remember Blue J, I had repressed those memories you fucking cunt.
>>54705425
>IDE already installed
>Open it
>New Project
>Write code in Program.c/.java/.cs/whatever
>Press green arrow at top
>It works
>send this file to teacher
I don't think you are smart enough to even ponder about the mind of an intelligent individual.
>>54705250
So you're saying you don't even know how to use a debugger? Just cause you were 'using a text editor instead of an IDE'?
Thats. Just. Sad.
>>54704686
>If you don't learn the functionality of at least 1 IDE
>learn the functionality of 1 IDE
>learn the IDE
Great job pahjeet, you require a class to learn a fucking IDE.
>>54705460
Meanwhile I've already finished it in the time it took to load the application and initialize the project ;^)
>>54703015
>use tools that make your own work simpler
There's nothing wrong with using tools that make your work simpler, but there is something wrong with being at the mercy of blackbox tools.
If you don't know how to do any work on a project if the IDE's "Compile" button doesn't work, you really need to do something about it.
This is not ivory tower purism, but to allow continuous integration, automated testing, deployment and rollback.
>>54705460
>>Press green arrow at top
>>It works
You forgot something
>It doesn't work
>Uses autocorrect functions
>Learns nothing
Great job, now you're ready to move to India!
>>54705484
>functionality of an IDE
>debugging
>refactoring
>project management
>>54705502
It takes literally 10 seconds to load an application unless your computer is also a toaster.
>>54705464
I didn't even know debuggers existed because we were taught to debug using print statements. I didn't learn about their existence until I graduated high school. I thought programming was always done in notepad, then compiling then going back to notepad and putting in print statements until you find what is wrong.
Regardless of that shit, I did pass the AP computer science test, which was done entirely on paper and about algorithms and data structures.
I still don't see how learning in an extremely hard method made me any better at programming though. In college I used whatever I wanted even if told not to because who cares.
>>54703015
simpler to use the terminal and globbing for small projects though
>>54703046
I know some old people who can handwrite at pretty fast pace. Also having nice cursive handwriting is nice too.
>>54705342
>Needing 3 variables for fizzbuzz
>>54705460
>send this file to teacher
>teacher can't compile it because it's missing flags, steps and dependencies that the IDE did without you being aware of it
>teacher has to spend 20 minutes trying to get it to compile
>has to do this for 150 assignments
>gets fed up and requires you to work out how to compile your own god damn code
>OP posts this thread
>>54705519
IDE's do not auto correct broken algorithms. They also just tell you where syntax errors are that would cause you to fail at compile time, and they do so while you type.
Sometimes they give you suggestions, but suggestions are not automatic either.
If I don't specify a return type for example the IDE will tell me "A function like this expects a return type" or if I don't return in the function it tells me "all paths don't specify a return value, fix that."
Of course you are a purist so you don't use a fucking IDE so you don't even know what it does and doesn't do.
Even if the method you use doesn't exist and the IDE makes it, it will literally return an exception with the auto generated code in most IDE's so everything would break still.
>>54705535
Same thing with me. Wait until you learn about unit testing.
>>54705559
Things that never happen for a thousand UNLESS you're using ruby on rails and gems.
>>54705530
>debugging
One of the things you should have learned understanding compiler errors.
>refactoring
This should be part of your course anyway.
>project management
At least one course dedicated to this.
This isn't something you learn because you're using an IDE fucktard.
>>54705600
I use an IDE when I program but I learned in VIM.
>>54705612
If you're of the mindset that compilation = pressing the green arrow and you're too busy to learn the underlying mechanics of it, then, yeah, it's going to happen a lot
>>54705559
God you guys are fucking dense.
Do YOU know how this shit works?
If you create a blank project in some IDE and then program your entire project and take out the files, how is the IDE going to magically inject text into a plain text file when you aren't looking that will cause it not to compile?
How do you even think make systems work? IDE's don't mess with the plain text files you fucking retard unless you explicitly do so.
If some retard wants to make a console application and then opens Visual Studio and makes a Windows Form application that does his assignment and tries to send it in, it's not the IDE's fault or anybody in the worlds fault for him being retarded besides himself and he deserves his F and he'll learn not to be a retard after that or quit.
It's better to be a retard like this in school anyway than in the real world.
>>54705635
Compiling without an IDE is literally just as easy as pressing a green arrow if you don't think terminals are magic, and you can do it very easily without understanding the process of what is happening so your point is moot.
>>54705635
I wasn't that same anon, but I agree with what you're saying. However, I also agree that an IDE isn't the devil.
>>54705612
>what is a Gemfile
>>54705612
What if the teacher doesn't use your IDE, thus your project files are worthless, and can't be arsed to install your shitty IDE?
Are you gonna be competent enough to be able to generate a makefile?
>>54702748
>forces you to learn an outdated program and a program known to give you carpel tunnel just to program
Use an IDE or Sublime. Don't pussy out just cause your professor is a faggot.
>>54705612
This happened in my data structures class. The professor would compile people's work using the course's stated IDE. People who used something like Vim instead got a 0 because the IDE requires a package to be imported and a text editor doesn't know to do that.
>>54705658
right, it's not like the gnu make manual is over 150 pages long or anything...
>>54705678
what if your teacher doesn't want to use your makefile?
>>54702748
>vim/emacs
You got lucky there familia. We are forced to use pure vi and pure gcc in our lab. Also only command line, no graphical interface.
>>54705704
>Implying you have to read that to be able to compile things
>Implying there isn't long manuals for every make system including ones in IDE's
>>54705704
150?!!!! Oh shit, I better jsut stick with the magic green button!!
>>54705717
>pure vi
o shit whaddup
>>54705704
You must not drive given the manual for each of its components can be well over 300 pages.
>>54702748
shit like this is why I'm majoring in math and not CS
>>54705678
I would use the same IDE as my teacher?
I use sublime with repl
>>54705717
Vi is barely worse than stock Vim
>>54705732
>manuals for every make system including ones in IDE's
you mean make?
>>54705746
I'm sure the same thing happens in math too.
>oh shit my prof makes us use chalk
>>54705770
I mean build system.
>>54705668
Clearly you've never worked on a ruby project with git among a group of dumb niggers who don't know what .gitignore is.
>>54702816
Emacs is more powerful than any IDE.
>>54705745
I guess manual is just as difficult as automatic right?
>>54705818
ur a nob m8
>>54702773
If you are learning you should not have anything to hold your hand except a fucking tutor, retard
Though limiting students to editors that reduce productivity and induce delusions until the user is done customizing and acclimating (years later, and in the case of emacs, never) is fucking stupid. Learn to program, not to vim. Vim is practically two different programming languages and people don't think it's bloated because vi wasn't bloated. Emacs is even more of a programming language, and you have to use it extensively because the defaults are inconvenient and useless.
>>54702814
That's not "not thinking about your code." The worst you're doing is offloading the burden of remembering hundreds of often arbitrary names. An IDE isn't solving programming problems for you, and it's not protecting you from having to understand the architecture of your code to solve those problems. You might as well say a debugger is "cheating" because it makes finding bugs easier, even if you still have to do the problem solving yourself.
>>54705818
Too bad it's GNU shit.
mg is much superior.
>>54705102
Typos and problem solving are unrelated issues
>>54702925
Uh no. Emacs without the mouse is hell. Your best bet to make it usable is to use it as crippled acme (read the docs about the mouse actions) or use evilaggy-mode.
Vim was a clone of vi, which was designed from the ground up to be usable on text mode terminals.
Emacs was a hack on top of teco. It was a collection of macros, and teco was hacked so typing control codes executed macros stored in registers, which is basically still how emacs operates.
>>54705784
lol, everything in math is latex and it's wonderful
>>54702748
>IDEs promote sloppy programming and bad habits
He's not wrong, Bumesh.
>>54705791
>working with dumb niggers
>using software wrong makes it bad
rm is objectively bad. You can just rm something important and never get it back! :(
>>54705874
emacs' IDE characteristics are entirely because of elisp, and you can do everything you can do in emacs using vim because of vimscript and python bindings
mg is just a text editor.
>lol use emacs
>without the sole good part
>>54705766
no visual mode lol
you should at least be able to work without an IDE and learn how to do all the simple things it automates for you.
>>54705459
I go to the uni that develops Blue J
It's actually a nice starter IDE. It has a nice decent debugger
>>54705638
For simple projects, you're right: you just rungcc -o myfile *.cand the files compile. Therefore, you reason, you just need those source files and you're good to go.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way for nontrivial projects. For even a basic graphical homework assignment, you might needgcc -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -lz -lSDL -pthread.
You didn't know that, though. You just checked the "libsdl" box in your IDE, causing this to be written to some xml files in the IDE's project file.
You then sent the .c file, to the professor, thinking they could just compile it with gcc, which is not the case. The file can't be compiled without either 1. the project files that you thought were irrelevant and that don't work outside the IDE, or 2. patiently figuring out which flags are required to compile your particular homework.
>>54705925
>anything related to lisp
>good
>>54702748
spit on his face and use nano
>>54702748
did you reply “vim and emacs are IDEs”?
>>54705312
The less dependent you're on tools the better you're going to be as a programmer. No beginner needs anything but the most ascetic platform to learn on.
Its good to use text editors in the learning phase of a language, but after when you will work at a company. Its not about how autist are you its about productivity and speed.
Is my loonix teacher a /g/entoman?
>owns a thinkpad
>loves linux to death and use it everyday (he told us the newer version of windows are simply awful and linux is clearly superior)
>strong open source supporter
>looks a bit like scatman
What do you think /g/?
>>54705067
>getting 100 errors at the end and not realizing they all are happening because the 1 error
It's like someone has no idea what compilers are and how error checking works.
Also
>GCC
>>54706123
I honestly don't know how GCC and glibc got so popular. They're both terrible pieces of software.
>>54706190
gcc is ok and didn't have a major contestant until llvm with clang got big.
glibc is pretty terrible but is still one of the few fully featured usable libcs.
>>54705874
There's not even much of a point to use mg unless you physically can't run a decent version of Emacs on your hardware.
If you're so scared of GNU there's XEmacs. Never tried it myself, but it's pretty easy to be better than mg.
