What does /g think about DAC amplifiers, especially portable USB ones. How do they compare to a dedicated sound card?
>>54622619
Literally better because less electronic interference from internal PC components.
/thread
Placebos designed to extract jewgolds from you.
>90% of gee has fell for the DAC meme
My motherboard literally cannon power my headphones, so I need it.
>>54622745
This.
I cringe so hard when I see people post their DACs with like ATH-50x headphones.
>/g
>>54622772
Would HD558s benefit? I don't hear any interference from my onboard so I never bothered
>>54622619
it depends on the quality of your sound card, and if you have a decent audio interface. I personally have an RME Fireface UC (pic related), and no way in hell is there a need of a DAC amplifier.
Also, you only need a DAC amplifier if your motherboard cannot power your headphones like in the case of >>54622754, and in the case your dedicated soundcard generates a very strong noise.
>>54622674
>>54622842
>interference
>digital
pls be b8
>>54622619
>DAC amplifier
>>54622867
You must have never used studio or professional equipment
Interference is negligible in consumer electronics but it becomes a problem in professional grade stuff.
>>54622867
>DAC
>Digital Audio Converter
What the fuck do you think a sound card does?
>>54622619
Better or worse, depends on the design.
>>54622867
I can assure you that there are some sound cards that generate very strong static noise, and to some people it can be very disturbing. Personally, on my laptop I have a bit of this static noise, but when I plug my audio interface, I don’t have it anymore.
But of course, you shouldn’t buy ultra-expansive audio interfaces just for the sake of making this noise disappear, I bought mine for work (I’m an audio engineer), but otherwise a DAC amplifier is seldom needed outside of the professionnal world of audio processing.
>>54622619
usb=software processing which is shit
but yes a proper dac is better than a soundcard
>>54622842
wouldn't you also need a dac or amp if you're using bookshelf speakers? I can't see a mobo having the juice to power those
It's all placebo.
>>54622619
What's the resolution of an external DAC vs the onbard DAC on your motherboard?
I imagine in either case it's 24-bit and you won't see any real world benefit from using an external DAC. The only benefit you'd get from using an external DAC would not be from the DAC at all but would be from the class A amplifier included with it which would easily outperform any amplifier on the motherboard. It won't make the sound quality better but it will allow you to crank your music louder without distortion.
>>54622973
B u l l s h I t
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>>54623027
nice argument bruh
>>54622619
>How do they compare to a dedicated sound card?
Sound cards have different purposes. Unless you mean gaymer audio cards.
>>54622973
>Software processing is shit
How's that tape treating you, grandpa?
>My sound sounds better with a DAC
>The frequencies being exactly the same doesn't mean anything
>G-Guys you just don't get it, dumb plebs
>>54623041
don't go getting all uppity with me you whippersnapper I'll send you out back to cut me a switch
>>54623038
What is this "software processing" you speak of ?
Post link to some cheap DAC's
>>54623104
it's literally just exactly what it sounds like, all usb sound uses software processing, that's why /g/ and /hpg/ give people shit about usb headphones
>>54623004
as regards bookshelf speakers, it is true you might need amplifiers, I was mainly talking about headphones here~
They're good but the high latency (up to 500ms) kills it for people who play games such as cs go
>>54623142
don't have any specific links but fiio is pretty good and has some reasonably priced stuff, for like fiddy sixddy bucks
>>54623053
>I don't know how many bits digital volume control needs
>>54623146
USB cable just transmits 1's and 0's you stupid fuck. Pure bitstream. It's Bluetooth you must be confused with
>>54623208
>has no clue what he's talking about
>calls others dumbfucks
ok kid
>>54623208
On my old toaster there was a audible hiss in headphones when I moved my mouse.
>>54623266
>toaster
did it run gentoo?
>>54623053
I think most of you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what all this stuff actually is.
Soundcard = blanket term for sometimes multifunctional internal audio components. Useless, if you have a decent modern motherboard. Only acceptable, if you're going for a home theatre setup, and your motherboard lacks the connections needed, or doesn't support (number) channel surround
DAC = Digital Audio Converter
Converts digital signal into listenable analog audio. Essentially, a USB > 3.5mm converter. Most "DAC's" primary function is headphone amplifiers, but DAC sounds sexier.
Amplifier
A device that amplifies audio signal, especially useful for high impedance (need more "power" to achieve listenable volume) headphones. DAC/ Amps that "color", or alter the audio as little as possible are the most useful, especially for audio engineering, but some casual listeners prefer less accurate, "warmer" tones, provided by glass tube amplifiers. These are useless for DAW (Digital Audio Workstation: ie Protools/ Audacity) work, and mostly about elitist aesthetic, but tubes genuinely alter sound in a pleasant way. Tube guitar amps are still popular today, for blues and country, etc.
Interface
Usually provides the functions of all of the above, plus, provides a way for your equipment to communicate with your DAW for recording. Usually features 1/4" and XLR inputs/ outputs, and works via USB/ firewire/ thunderbolt port
>>54623266
Is there a DAC in your headphones?
>>54623146
>/hpg/ give people shit about usb headphones
>usb headphones
You mean gaming headsets? We don't care about the interface much. In fact, one of the usually recommended DAC/amp combo, the e10k, connects via USB. It's the idiotic gaming EXTREME BASS 7.1 surround sound gaming headsets we frown upon whether they have a USB or 4 pole jack.
>>54623299
God no, I was a good kid on Win 98 SE
>>54623332
FUCK, you got me. I just remembered they were wireless
>>54623347
Who the fuck has a USB headphones?
The anons that use them must not realize USB is a really good method to connect your DAC to your computer I guess.
>>54623321
DAC is a digital to analog converter not digital to audio converter.
You take a digital bitstream and turn it into a set of quantized discrete values which you then put through a filter on the output to retrieve an analog signal out.
>>54623401
>Who the fuck has a USB headphones?
Victims of marketing.
>>54623426
Most don't realize different DAC chips sound different also. It's always "hurr Durr audiophile snake oil"
>>54623426
Its exactly the same definition, either way, anon. Audio, just implies that its meant specifically to convert digital audio to analog audio, and not your Casio into a grandfather clock
A DAC converts the sound into an analogue signal, than amplifies the sound using tube amps or amplifies it digitally if it doesn't have a tube amp. When sound is played through tubes, the tubes slightly edit the sound to give it a softer feel to it.
>>54623495
Hahaha. Wrong.
>>54622867
Don't be a retard, the interference happens in the analog output stage
>>54623451
They shouldn't sound different. The only reason they would is if one DAC is a lower resolution than another. A 16-bit DAC should sound different to a 24-bit DAC but there should be no difference between two 24-bit DACs.
With a 16-bit DAC 65,536 discrete voltage values can be represented. With a 24-bit DAC the number is 16,777,216 discrete voltage values. The higher the resolution the closer the quantized digital approximation will be to the true analog after filtering.
24-bit DAC A and 24-bit DAC B should not sound different because in either case you will always have 16,777,216 discrete voltage values that can be represented by the DAC.
>>54623623
Go back and look at that diagram that kind anon posted. Notice all the filters?
Oh and digital volume control takes about 12 of those 16/24 bits, BTW.
>>54623518
Saying that the tubes edit the sound, probably wasn't the right way to say what would have been better, would have been to say that playing sound through a tube gives a distinctly different sound than if you would keep it flat, and some people like this sound.
>>54623747
Its not the tubes that triggered me. A dac can only output current or voltage. You cant amplify digitally. Thats like saying you are making 1's and zeros bigger. Output from a dac either goes to transistors or tubes. The correct term is "distortion." Some distortion sounds good eg Hendrix. Most sounds like shit. But tubes color the sound, giving it a bit of warmth that some people like.
>>54622934
It's digital to analog converter you illiterate
>>54623875
Technically, it's digital to analog audio converter
>>54622808
What?
>>54623623
>A 16-bit DAC should sound different to a 24-bit DAC but there should be no difference between two 24-bit DACs.
Replace the word sound with perform. 24 bit precision theoretically lowers the noise floor because less quantization noise and that's it. 16 bit has such massive dynamic range for any kind of listening use that the two will not sound any different unless the other one is simply flawed or broken.
>>54623868
Thanks for your reply. As you can see I still have alot to learn in the topic of audio tech. I'm more a lightingfag desu, but I do love the sound of some analogue DACs
>>54623935
You dumb fucks still don't realize digital volume control takes bits away. 12 bits for the volume, 4 for your music. Ever wonder why music sounds better when you turn it up? Ever wonder why 32 bit DACs are a thing? But just stay ignorant, memeing away, thinking you are so superior with your inside knowledge that is woefully incomplete
>>54623875
>>54623426
>digital to analog converter
Does that mean my printer is a DAC?
>>54624018
>digital to analog converter
Means you take a digital signal (serial or parallel) and directly convert it to an analog one (voltage).
Old matrix printers were. Newer ones are not, as you send instructions to the printer and not just signals.
>>54624058
Way to ruin a joke, anon...
>>54624132
I'm semi-autistic, sorry.
>>54624018
>sansposting
>>54624170
Its okay, anon. I forgive you.
>>54624181
If it's any consolation, I like Undertale, but I hate Undertale fans.
>>54624202
You hate yourself?
>>54624228
Now, you're getting the picture!
>>54623915
>Technically, it's digital to analog audio converter
Is it?
I thought it was a simple device that doesn't care what the signals represent.
ie: digital number goes in, corresponding voltage comes out. - nothing more.
If I used my photo camera's raw file as input, and hooked the output to a CRT I should (theoretically) be able to get picture, right?
>>54624006
>4 bits
>anywhere near enough for music
lol what? That's only 16 discrete voltage values. That would sound like total ass.
>>54624006
Am I being baited or are you a genuinely this full of shit?
>digital volume control takes bits away
Sure it does affect it once you start fiddling with it. 16 bit precision with digital volume at 0 dBfs is exactly 16 bits.
>12 bits for the volume, 4 for your music
Doesn't work like this.
>Ever wonder why music sounds better when you turn it up?
I know exactly why music tends to sound better when you turn it up and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's a psychoacoustical thing that has to do with ears' sensitivity to frequencies as a function of SPL. Look up equal loudness contour and read a bit on auditory characteristics of our hearing. Heck try the same with a fully analog setup: all of which has precision far lower than any digital format used for storing full band stereo audio. The effect of music subjectively sounding better with higher volume remains.
>Ever wonder why 32 bit DACs are a thing?
I also happen to know why 32 bit floating point is used and it has absolutely nothing to do with audible benefits during listening. It's a production format just like the higher sampling rates than 44.1/48 kHz are.
Precision defines the noise performance of a system and nothing more.
>HURR LE DAC IS NO AMPLIFIER
give me an amplifier then fags, I need one
less than 100 euros
>>54624366
Build one yourself. You can find class A amplifier schematics all over the internet.
>>54624366
>AMPLIFIER
what kind of shit motherboard do you have that doesn't output enough volume?
>>54622674
Good motherboard designs and using the rear line out gets around this.
My external card sounds worse and picks up more interference than the realtek in my computer
>>54624299
Lol. Yep. That's assuming you have the volume all the way down. Just go research digital volume control and you might understand why it's problematic
>>54622674
a dac doesn't stop interference
>>54623426
>Low Pass Filters are now anti aliasing filters and anti imaging filters
>>54624414
As opposed to what? Analog volume control which increases the signal's noise and distortion when cranked up? Which exhibits channel imbalance with commonly used dual gang pots at high attenuation?
>>54623401
>Who the fuck has a USB headphones?
Soon, everyone, if Apple and Intel get their way.
>>54624300
It's about dynamic range, fucko. Yes, you get 16 bits if you have no volume control, or set it to max.
>>54624506
To clarify: they want to send an ANALOG signal over USB, not put a DAC in the headphones.
>>54624520
Why would you set the digital signal to anything but 100%?
>>54624531
I can't be arsed to look up, but Apple has patent on putting DAC and amp inside the headphone and connecting them to iPhone over Lightining.
Intel's USB-C Digital Audio spec calls for DAC inside the headphone.
>>54624469
Usually the volume control can be implemented in the DAC + amplifier combo in two methods
Method 1: The volume control is implemented into the digital stage. The major drawback is that 1 bit of the D/A conversion is lost in every 6DB volume reduction. So, even though the built-in DA chip is 32 bit, in fact, only 16 bit may be left at low volume level.
Method 2: The volume control is implemented in the analog amplifier input stage through a volume pot to reduce the signal level. However, the volume pot affects the sound quality adversely. A low grade volume pot loses the details and creates channels imbalance resulting into soundstage distortion. Even a high grade volume pot inevitably loses the details. Both methods degrade the sound quality.
A better method applies the I/V conversion volume control, the volume control is just a variable passive I/V conversion being placed at the ACSS amplifier output, where the output is current signal but not voltage signal. I/V conversion is to change the volume level from the current (I) signal to the voltage (V) signal. (Like R-2R D/A chips output passive I/V conversion) It can keep the signal frequency band flat while not losing any detail. It does not degrade the sound quality in every volume level. In front of the volume control, there should be four groups of diamond non-feedback buffer output stages that offer very low output impedance.
>>54624380
lel no thanks
>>54624380
it's a good motherboard
O2/ODAC is all you will ever need.
>>54624366
Twistedpear or hypex
You are welcome
>dac stack with $400 headphones or speakers
ok
>with anything less
end yourself
>>54622754
What headphones do you havw? Mine can drive hd800 without problem.
>>54622867
The sound needs to go back to analog before going to your headphones you mongrel, that's when it's fucked up by all the interfences
>>54626324
Not him but I have a DT880 in 600omh.
>bought cheap shitty motherboard
>the sound on it sucks and is tinny as fuck
>treble distorts and is heavily emphasised
>buy DAC
>Music sounds like music again
I'm not sure, maybe it's just placebo like buying headphones that are worth more than $20.
Or maybe the placebo talk is the meme in the first place.
upgrade your PC's power supply for best audio results
reasonably good sound can be had in the $300-$350 range for an audiophile-grade power supply
the best ones are made in Nordic countries because they use a different specification for electron thickness
