Is the Vidya-Warez-Scene dead?
yes, until it gets cracked and you suddenly must catch up to those 25 AAA title PC games you missed in the past 3 years
>>54614062
Eh. It'll get cracked eventually.
I would play DOOM if it were cracked right now. However not being able to do that won't make me go and buy it. I dare say that's the case for many "lost sales"
The only game that bothers me is Deus Ex since I prefer to wait for the GOTY edition to buy it.
It's because there's nothing worth pirating
>>54614062
Yes, for some time, maybe even for a few years. But it will get cracked one day and maybe this will be the day when you would actually have to pay for cracks. Just imagine cracks with key authorization when you have to pay monthly subscription to be able to launch your pirated gayms. Or you buy a crack for each game individually, but the crack price is like 2-3 times lower than the retailer price for normal gaym.
That being said, nobody want's to hack it for free anymore, because now it takes actual time and effort to do it. And now it's much more easier to track and sue hackers.
>>54614307
>However not being able to do that won't make me go and buy it. I dare say that's the case for many "lost sales"
I doubt Bethesda gives a fuck. DRM still increases their profits by a decent amount. The number of committed piratefags who will ONLY pirate is so small as to be insignificant. It's good business to make piracy as difficult as possible, no amount of "Well I'm not going to buy it anyway" rhetoric will change that.
The last good AAA game was released in 2011 and isn't even on PC (Red Dead Redemption).
>>54614466
I pirate because I am poor not because I want to uphold some belief. If I lived in a country where salaries aren't shit I would have bought many games or software already.
No shit it's dead? I'm and older and have money now, plus I mainly only play console game anymore, but I used to pirate everything. I don't anymore because I see it as more hassle and risky than just laying $15 for the game (I don't buy anything when it first comes out and is not on steam sale)
It's crackable, but scene rules mess everything up
>>54614529
No, they are what keep things from becoming a mess. The scene isn't a P2P group of kids.
>>54614496
Nobody only pirates except russians. The only difference is that instead of pirating medicore games and maybe buying it, I won't play it at all.
>>54614523
Well, corporations don't really care about it. Like, you cannot just enter the store and ask them to give you some shoes or jacket because you don't have money to buy it, and same goes for software and gayms.
>>54614556
>I won't play it at all
Ok? You weren't going to buy it anyway so the loss to the developer is nil, and there are plenty of people who WILL shell out for mediocre games is they can't pirate them easily, so it's still a big win for publishers and developers.
>>54614544
Well yeah, in the sense that an empty room can't be messy. Making a working crack for a good game is better than making a really clean and pure crack for Goat Simulator
>>54614603
>and maybe buying it
>>54614611
>and maybe buying it
Yeah, right. All those pirates are just 'testing' the game to see if it's good before paying full price. I believe you.
I just don't get this obsession with trying to paint pirates as anything more than a parasite on the side of the industry. Piracy has literally zero benefits for the companies producing games and yet we always see these tepid and blatantly self serving "Well if I pirate a good game I might end up buying it, so it really hurts them!" arguments. No-one believes that shit. People want free shit, who would pay full price for something you can get for free? A fucking idiot, that's who. No-one falls for the idea that people pirating games is a net boon to the industry, least of all the people crunching the numbers for those companies.
>>54614611
The fact that there isn't a single good Denuvo game aside, there are half-assed cracks by 3DM for some games, and the point of cracking a system is so you defeat the protection, not develop a mere workaround to play a game for free.
>>54614661
Maybe for single player games. But no-one plays those any more, so even cracks are just demo mode
>>54614062
3dm was the only group capable enough to battle denuvo. But I suspect that they were probably bribed. Nothing else would stop a chink from fucking with western tech.
As it looks now, nobody is bothering, nobody cares even. Its pretty much game ogre.
Thank god that I am getting bored of gaming anyhow.
>>54614603
>>54614661
You're a fag boy, fuck you. I only buy games I can pirate and I don't give a shit if anyone believes it or not. Corporations are juridical jews run by jews and they would charge an hourly fee if they could, buying a game without a crack gives you zero assurance you get to keep what you bought, they can revoke your license any time, you can't simply play an older version of a game if you want, your are bound to their will.
I only pay for some games out of consideration for the developers (the publishers are usually the greedy jews, the developers won't get an additional cent regardless of sales), if you actually manage to protect your game or if you run it online only you can eat shit.
>>54614738
you can refund any game on steam before < 2 hours playtime for any reason
>>54614738
I'm sure they're really hemorrhaging money from losing the "I only buy games I can pirate because I'm a fucking idiot" demographic. I wonder why the companies havn't just relied on the honor system? Surely they'll sell a lot more games when they allow people to pirate freely then people will pay for the games out of respect! Why aren't they hiring this guy? He'll make their profits skyrocket with his brilliant business sense!
holy fuck
>>54614218
Except the anti tamper is different for each game, so impossible to anti-tamper
>>54614719
>single player games. But no-one plays those any more
retard
>>54614307
Agreed. I just add games to a list and check back every month or so. It's no skin off my back if I can't play them.
>>54614661
I wont say all but i'm one of the people that pirate before buying, i just hope this DRM doesnt fuck up the experience of the people that buy the game
>>54614496
>DRM still increases their profits by a decent amount
There has quite literally no evidence of DRM making any difference to sales. Even the big publishers who use DRM flip-flop between saying it works and saying it doesn't. The Witcher 3 sold millions of copies on PC alone, despite being available completely DRM-free and thus via piracy from day one, because CD Projekt Red don't believe DRM works (and have been proven right by their success).
>>54614967
Of course it works
>The Witcher 3 sold millions of copies on PC alone, despite being available completely DRM-free
Ok? That doesn't actually prove anything at all. A game without DRM sold a lot of copies, how do we know that it wouldn't have sold a hundred thousand more copies if it had DRM? The problem with proving it works is that you can't visit an alternate reality to see how it sold with DRM. There is no way to measure the impact. That said I think it's fairly obvious that the more easily a game is pirated the more potential customers will go that route. Like I said, only an idiot would pay money for something they can get for free, it's economics 101, assume everyone always acts rationally in their own self interest, and if you can easily pirate a game for zero cost, you must assume thats what a significant number of potential customers do
>game piracy is dead!
what is renting
what is borrowing from a friend
what is buying used
what is lets plays
>>54615156
Perfectly legal and not piracy?
>>54615175
They are not making money so it's still considered piracy to them
>>54614762
The refund system isn't to be used as a demo system, and even if it were, 2 hours are nothing. And that has nothing to do with anything I said.
>>54614806
>I'm sure they're really hemorrhaging money
Unrelated with what I said and a pointless argument on its own.
>I wonder why the companies havn't just relied on the honor system?
They have (see CDPR and its GOG store). But that's unrelated to what I said.
>Surely they'll sell a lot more games when they allow people to pirate freely then people will pay for the games out of respect! Why aren't they hiring this guy? He'll make their profits skyrocket with his brilliant business sense!
Do you even have proof of an anti-piracy measure providing non-negligible increases in profit? To the point it even covers the cost of the mechanism in the first place?
Besides, if you think you're making less because of people like me you can indeed eat shit. I have standards. I'm not buying games without any guarantee I get to keep what I bought, nor am I going to pay to play online (like Diablo 3 on PC). If that bothers you that's not my problem.
>>54614523
I know your feel.
I lived in Portugal my whole life and never had money for shit, always had to save for an entire year just to afford a decent GPU or CPU, so I never bought games unless they were like 90% on sale.
Now I bank hard in Switzerland as a Dev, and I don't bat an eye for anything that I want to buy.
Fucking hell, I bought Guitar Hero Live even though it's not even that great just because I wanted to play a bit of baby-tier guitar, that fun was worth 200 bucks and I played it like...4 times...
hue
The dawn of gaming has begun
It was fun while it lasted
>>54615233
so you went from poor to stupid?
>>54615207
>Do you even have proof of an anti-piracy measure providing non-negligible increases in profit
It's impossible to measure. That said all logic points to yes, piracy hurts sales and yes DRM claws some of those sales back.
To use an analogy, imagine if a baker set up shop and on day 1 a guy starts giving out free bread right in front of the store. The baker says the guy has to move because obviously giving out free bread right in front of his store is hurting his sales, why would someone walk past a guy giving out free bread to buy it from the store?
You argue that there is no way to prove that the guy is hurting sales so he should be left alone.
What is more likely? Well it's almost a certainty that the guy handing out free bread is hurting the bakers sales. All logic points to that conclusion. The ONLY fact that can be used to argue the opposite is that we have no history of bread sales without the guy there to make a comparison with.
The exact same logic follows with piracy and DRM. We can't prove that less piracy would lead to more sales because we can't compare different games and we can't release a game with AND without DRM, no comparison is possible. But we can say, almost for certain, that removing the guy in front of the story (DRM stopping piracy) would increase the bakers (developer/publishers) sales. Because logic dictates there were a percentage of people who otherwise would've bought their bread getting it for free. And sure there will be some people who had zero intention of buying their bread caught in the crossfire, but fuck them, if they don't want to pay they shouldn't get bread to eat.
I still pirate things that come out because DLC.
If you're gonna release a legitimate expansion pack to a gayme, do so and call it as such. But I'm not paying an extra $20 on release day for a long list of trinkets, single characters and single maps that should be in the game already. There are already so few gaymes actually worth buying and playing these days, it's no surprise that the warez scene is piddling out.
>>>/v/
>>54614062
I haven't pirated a game in two years and I will probably never buy anything that ships with Denuvo
DRM is a gangrene
>>54614062
>download via official link
>download is choppy
>use installer from torrents
>90% uptime
poorfag here i try to buy games when they are cheap but denvuo isnt that bad i havent had any trouble with it at least on mad max
the 'cracks' for the early versions run like dogshit
until vmprotect is cracked windows store/uwp and denvuo will reign supremem
>>54615253
I'm a collector, so I guess neither of those.
Completed the entire NES and N64 library, SNES is about 70%, Gamecube is almost done, Wii is far from done, WiiU is so far 100%.
>>54615309
>But we can say, almost for certain, that removing the guy in front of the story (DRM stopping piracy) would increase the bakers (developer/publishers) sales.
But once you subtract the people who can't afford (literally can't, or can't because it would be an excessive burden on their income) AND the people who aren't buying no matter what, AND the people who won't buy it because they're against DRM, can you prove that gain is non-negligible?
No, you can't, it's obvious. So all you're left with is nothing but a conjecture, and one that is FAR from obvious. The video gaming industry has grown tremendously with less elaborate mechanisms, and even no DRM at all.
The kernel of your idea is based on the presumption that ease of piracy would necessarily impair sales of games to the point it would be no longer viable (as if someone were giving bread in front of a bakery). This is very clearly wrong, and this is proven by observing the growth of the market itself.
You're then left with the notion that this stricter protection would noticeably increase profit. This is unproven as of now, and may remain so forever.
>>54615409
>WiiU is so far 100%.
poor soul
>>54615490
Why?
>>54615448
I'll concede that. Ultimately measuring the impact of DRM on sales is nigh impossible. My point is though that piracy isn't a noble endeavor that helps the industry in roundabout ways. People want free stuff, if you can get something for free you'd be an idiot not to. It's 100% pure self interest, and throwing a few shekels in the direction of your favourite devs now and then doesn't justify it.
No-one blames pirates for acting in their own self interest, but the whole "They're going to hurt themselves more than they hurt me" schtick and pretending they're not just parasites who contribute nothing gets old.
>>54614218
I don't think anything worthwhile came out with Denuvo apart from MGS5 and maybe MAYBE Mad Max.
>>54615630
>My point is though that piracy isn't a noble endeavor that helps the industry in roundabout ways.
It may have no benefit for the industry, but to say it has no benefit to mankind is bullshit. If all you do is play the latest AAA shooters, sure, but how many games out there aren't being kept alive, from consoles, old computers, and even PC games, that are only made possible thanks to emulators and ROMs (which everyone downloads anyway).
>if you can get something for free you'd be an idiot not to
If every human thought with reddit-tier fedora capitalism ideals, sure, but it doesn't so who the fuck are you to claim someone is an idiot for not getting something for free instead of buying? How is it "not justifiable" to not agree with your shit opinions on what the ethics and politics of commercial and cultural relations of intellectual property should be? Who declared so, you?
>>54614062
Reloaded completely removed Arxan from GTAV the other day, so hopefully they can remove Denuvo from existing games as well
>>54615747
>to say it has no benefit to mankind is bullshit
Pic related
Not sure why you took offense to the self interest part. If pirates put ethics ahead of base self interest they wouldn't be pirates. People pirate exactly because their personal self interest trumps ethical concerns, that's kind of why people steal shit.
>>54615409
You lied about being poor then, the cheapest collection you own is the N64 library, but even that current goes for around 10k. If you legitimately owned every SNES and NES game you would be sitting on over 500k.
>>54615940
I see, you only read 2 paragraphs of what I wrote in my first post.
That's cool.
>>54615939
It is legal to backup a product you legally purchased, and there is this wonderful legal right called the first sales doctrine. DRM and lobbying are fucking over basic consumer rights, which in itself is unethical. If a company doesn't act ethically and respect your rights, what obligation should you have to do the same?
>>54615939
I wouldn't say piracy is ethically correct per se, the logic in these scene groups, for example, is aligned with the hacker ethics. Copyright infringement of something you can afford is often unethical, but the mechanisms that make it possible aren't.
In fact, while I wouldn't go so far as to say the IP system itself is bad, I would say that the current system IS an affront to people. Remember that IP is a make-believe system of artificial scarcity, in the beginning you had 14 years on your work, and you could extend it for 14 years.
But lifetime + 70/120, fuck that. But that's another subject.
>>54614661
reminder
>>54616914
Factually incorrect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
Do you people really still pirate games? Sure, I did it when I was younger and had no job and shit. It's 2016 now though. If you can't afford to buy video games you need to re-evaluate your life.
>>54616941
So what's the alternative here? If a person is not planning to buy it either way, pirating it costs the company nothing.
>>54616941
So in other words, if piracy wasn't a possibility, these chucklefucks would pay to waste their time?
>>54617005
Believe it or not there are people who would've bought the game who choose to get it for free instead. Crazy, I know.That's where the cost is incurred.
>>54616941
This only applies if the alternative to the pirate getting the game for free was him buying it.
If the only two outcomes are either pirate the game for free, or never buy it, then pirating it makes literally no difference to the developer.
Fortunately not a problem. I only play games that are on gog (oldfag who likes his dos and scummvm games). Some newer games I pirates. But when they appeared on gog I bought them (darksiders is one example of many)
I only play old stuff on emulators up to NDS so i don't give a fuck about the latest AAA scam game.
>>54617020
>If a person is not planning to buy it either way
that reading comprehension
>>54617048
Here we go again, desperately trying to portray pirates as harmless innocents who the mean old companies are unfairly targeting. C'mon. The whole 'pirate who has no intention of purchasing the game even if that's the only option' is a strawman, and a blatantly transparent one too. The only people who really fall into that catagory are people who are literally too poor to buy the game. They're a minority, a tiny one. A much larger proportion of pirates are people who have the means to buy the game, and would, if they didn't have the ability to get the game for free.
Also it literally doesn't matter what the intentions of the pirate are anyway. It's a dumb, transparent, self serving "Hey, c'mon man, I wasn't hurting you, I wasn't going to buy it anyway!" defense that doesn't even hold water in the greater discussion of should companies defend their IP and protect it from piracy?
If you're a shareholder, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
>>54617193
Im not saying pirates are helpful, or trying to justify them.
I'm just saying that that kind of pirate doesn't negatively impact a developer in any way.
>>54617193
>They're a minority, a tiny one.
Every country except 1st world ones.
And then a big percentage of people from 1st world.
>>54617182
I don't get what you're saying. Yes, there are people who pirate who never had any intention of buying the game. Are you saying publishers should simply ignore all piracy because those particular pirates don't hurt the bottom line, when there are pirates who definitely WOULD have bought the game had piracy not been an available option? Explain to me what your point is, that the rights of the pirates who had no intention to buy outweighs the right of the company to protect it's IP? What exactly are you saying, that because SOME pirates don't affect the bottom line ALL piracy is harmless? Whatever it is, your point has been addressed already.
>>54617209
>I'm just saying that that kind of pirate doesn't negatively impact a developer in any way
Doesn't really seem to matter when piracy as a whole is enormously damaging to the industry. Ask any indie dev how they feel when their game has 100k downloads on a torrent site and only 10k people have bought their game. Happened with Game Dev Story, 93% of the users of their game pirated it. Pretty soul crushing.
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/
>>54617292
If a game is good and not a piece of shit who's only selling point is PR and trailers with pre-rendered footage, it's gonna sell well regardless of piracy. Witcher 3 is a good example.
>>54617368
>it's gonna sell well regardless of piracy
That's not really a justification for piracy though, seems like you're just stating a fact. It will sell well regardless of piracy. Odds are it would have sold even better without piracy. The whole Robin Hood idea where it's alright because the game is successful anyway is once again another fallacy used to smokescreen and pretend piracy isn't just people wanting free shit.
Bottom line is piracy is bad for the companies that create games. They want to stop it, and with good reason.
You want free shit so you pirate. Cool. Don't pretend it's some noble endeavor, you're just stealing. If you can get something for free only a sucker would pay for it, it's pure rational self interest nothing more. At least have the self awareness to realize that
God I love anti-pirate tears. Salty as fuck. I haven't even pirated anything for years, but I love the button blast that piracy generates in the rectums of corporate white knights.
I hope they get paid at least.
Wow, this is full of shills
I wonder how disgusting it is to be paid to promote denuvo?
>>54617561
These days I just pirate out of spite. I download fucking everything from public trackers to help seed, I don't even watch most of that shit, especially CAM and TS releases, but what else would I do with 100Mbps+ of upload, uncapped, untracked and with a beef with the jews?
Just wait.
In this industry all the manufacturer wants from expensive DRM systems is to buy some time to release, sell and ship as many copies as possible to people who want to play it and will pay it.
They don't give a shit if a year after the release someone's cracked it, they shipped massive amounts of copies of it, they made their money back, they made profit on top of it and they're already working on another title.
If the game is worth it - it will be cracked sooner or later.
If it's not worth it - nothing of value was lost.
>>54617193
I can't say that I'm a straight-up poorfag, but being able to afford games isn't something I can often do, especially when I have a shitty computer that can barely run them as-is. Why would I pay full price for a game I can't truly enjoy because I have to run it in loony toons graphics mode just for playable frame rates? And even if I did upgrade my system, that would set me back even more on the idea of spending more than I already have on the hardware. A lot of people barely have enough money for hardware, nevermind the software; literally nothing installed on my PC is legit except for one program I helped develop.
>>54615048
>Of course it works
The only games using denuvo that have sold well are extremely high profile games that would have sold well with just steam DRM like the tomb raider reboots.
Everything else sold like shit, and you need to keep in mind that these AAA publishers need at least 2x their budget in sales for them to consider it anything but a glaring failure.
>>54617354
>Game Dev Story
And Game Dev Story get hell lot of free advertising by their "anti piracy system". Would you even knew that game without these "baww, piracy"-news?
I don't mind it when implemented well.
I bought MGSV, finished it and never noticed it had denuvo at all.
2 friends of mine played and finished the game and play multiplayer regularly with my own copy for free, so I don't complain.
>>54617701
>And Game Dev Story get hell lot of free advertising by their "anti piracy system"
So....DRM sells more games?
>>54617764
You have to get people talking of your game, or it will be forgotten under other "my X indie games".
For example people preordered Goat Simulator even it doesn't have any plot, and people started buying "Game Dev Story" AFTER it was on every gaming news-website.
http://www.pcgamer.com/median-game-sales-on-steam-are-down-dramatically-steamspy-says/
And explanation for that can't be piracy, there are just too many (shitty) indie games available.
>>54618162
It's pretty ironic. Everyone remembers when Gabe said that if you wanted to fight piracy, you should come out with good content and now with the brilliant idea they had by allowing everyone to publish a game for a really low price and turning Steam into the Play Store on google the majority of titles on Steam are pure garbage that doesn't deserve to be bought.
But hey, this is also the same people who once used to publish decent games and cared about the community modding shit into them, and now run on microtransactions and stupid ideas like the fucking steam boxes.
God almighty. Only reasons I chose PC as a platform is because I could always use it for something else than games, online is free and I don't enjoy blurry shit.
