Where did the
>you don't need calculus for CS
meme originate?
You don't need it for writing your Ruby on Rails app doesn't mean it isn't fucking useful for real work
k
>>54491344
>muh Fourier
You don't need it for databases, operating systems, programming languages, automata, or computability theory either.
It's not as critical as it used to be, because all the available frameworks and libraries have already implemented all the crazy magical math we need in our daily lives
So yes it's important to know, but you can live without it.. unless you're working on some crazy algorithms or creating a physics engine
>>54491344
what is the majority of this real work you speak of
>>54491687
Video, image and audio manipulation and compression
Networking
Feature extraction so that voice recognition, face recognition etc. can be implemented
And calculus in more general:
Anything statistics, which includes anything machine learning
Anything that is scientific computation or simulation
Physics engines
Graphics engines
Limits are useful for defining asymptotic complexity
Series are useful in combinatorics
Robotics
>>54491727
and what exactly makes that work more real than >>54491591
>>54491344
what level of calculus are you talking about?
>>54491762
Lots of people complain about the Calc I-III sequence already, which is just dumbed-down analysis
>>54491344
you don't though
CS and programming are pathetic pajeet tier disciplines, modern day equivalent of mining coal. CS is nothing at all like EE which actually does use math.
>>54491782
Not in Europe
It sure isn't necessary for posting on /g/.
I wish google would make something like captcha but requiring to solve simple calculus problems... Wait, that's actually a decent idea, and completely doable.
>>54491747
the salaries
>>54491782
>EE
Just take physics and maths, the rest is easy.
protip: most of the engineering jobs don't require calculus 99% of time. But it's the 1% that counts. Like when you have to read a paper on something, deal with something problematic or unusual for which there is no ready solution, or just to have a "feeling" about how certain things work.
OP, where did the "writing Ruby on Rails apps is not real work" meme originate?
>>54491776
Lies. Math major here.
Calc 1-3 covers the big three: derivatives, integrals, and vector spaces. As it has always done. Analysis topics are somewhat presented, but indirectly and weakly.
Tldr; Stop spreading bullshit.
>>54491344
because calculus is only used to prove the theory behind algorithims that are implemented discreetly because computer.
Like, foruier is only used to show how the FFT works
>>54491344
>>54491591
>>54492566
Calculus includes integrals, which is needed in electrical/computer engineering, and in complexity theory. Not every computer scientist wants to be a sys admin or a programmer.
It's also used to weed out idiots who study CS because they think it will make them rich fast. Unfortunately, those idiots went and created new ways to get "education" in the form of coding camps.
>>54492630
>integrals in complexity theory
uh, no. And electrical/computer engineering are not CS...
>>54492679
>electrical/computer engineering are not CS...
>>54492848
That's right, that's why they are separate college programmes.
>>54492630
>Not every computer scientist wants to be a sys admin or a programmer.
Gas those who equate the 3
>>54492848
>hardware isn't software...
>>54492889
>>54492977
Lmaoing at your lives right now, guess you live in a shitty country if your CS program doesn't offer any computer engineering classes.
Also,
>hardware isn't software
What does this have to do with anything? You think computer science is about writing software?
>>54493024
My program offers some assembly/architecture for CS but not as much as say, computer engineering.
>What does this have to do with anything? You think computer science is about writing software?
I didn't say that
I have been a developer for 7 years, and I have only ever used "meme math" once, to make an aimbot. I literally just Google trigonometry and finished what I was doing and forgot it all because it's not important.
>>54492977
correct
>>54493068
>I've been a pajeet for 7 years
>>54493124
>I've been a master memester for 7 years
>>54493068
Pajeet, BTFO
>>54493124
I mean if being as white as clouds in the sky makes me a pajeet because I can program and you can't im okay with sir.
NOW HAVE I ANSWERED YOU QUESTIONS IN A PROPER MANNER AND ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR SERCVICE.
>>54492679
>what is analytical combinatorics
>what is that generalization of the master theorem
>>54493922
still discreet
>>54491727
>Video, image and audio manipulation and compression
unless you are one of the 5 people that work on the actual algorithms, no. And at that point you're probably a mathematician by training rather than a CS anyways.
>Networking
objectively not true
>Feature extraction so that voice recognition, face recognition etc. can be implemented
explain
>>54494036
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_component_analysis
>>54494086
ok where are the integrals
>>54493024
Congratulations anon for proving you're 12. CS is all software with no engineering whatsoever while Computer Engineering is a mix between software and hardware, requiring physics, higher level calculus, a few EE and hardware-based Computer classes, but lacking tough software-based classes like algorithms that CS majors need.
You not knowing this at all makes you 12
>>54494316
CS isn't a programming degree.
>>54494858
Right. Companies hire CS majors for their calculus abilities.
>>54494887
CS majors weren't taught calculus so they could solve differential equations for a living, but so they wouldn't panic when they saw an integral.
>>54491792
Elaborate please. I wanna do CS/CE in Denmark.
>>54495469
Should they also teach biology so CS majors aren't squeamish around blood?
Dumbass. I go to college to learn shit I can actually use, not for intellectual masturbation.
For the theory used in most CS programs, you will pretty much never need to do an integral or derivative.
The same kind of discussion can be conducted about "why would I need to know how to program?".
Well, you don't really need to. It's one of those things which you can function without perfectly in life. Many people learn how to program but still they can't do anything useful with that ability. It's up to you to find a way to use it.
For people who are good at calculus it's a viable tool because applying it comes to them naturally, just like programming for us.
>>54495651
>Dumbass. I go to college to learn shit I can actually use, not for intellectual masturbation.
If you go to a college for that, then the joke is on you. College is not a vocational school.
>>54491344
Calculus isn't nearly as important as number theory and abstract algebra. Most CS people work with subsets of the reals, not the reals.
>>54492630
Number theory is a better weedout tool than calculus.
>>54495856
>hurr durr it's a place of higher leearning
No it's a place of fuck you I paid thousands.
>>54495944
>>54491792
I'm 6 hours late but this is true. I'm currently in europe on our CS equivalent and it actually has an "engineer" there in the major name. Nothing from what I read on /g/ about these "liberal" colleges where you need to find what's wrong with gender options in video games
>>54495745
It's certainly useful for games.
Imagine a WoW-like spell where you need a total damage dealt over time in a non linear manner, you need basic calc to know how much damage to apply on each tick.
Let's say you want to blend normal maps. You need to grab a normal vector, rotate it and blend the new map. You need to know quaternions to do that, which require linear algebra to understand.
Small problems like these come up all the time, and you can spend hours researching the solutions if you're mathematically impaired or get them done in minutes if you know bothered to learn math.
ITT: CS majors who never took calculus cause it was too hard.
What happened to the math minor you were going to get?
>>54495992
Reminds me of this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root
http://h14s.p5r.org/2012/09/0x5f3759df.html
>>54495856
You go to college to network.
>>54495913
Well, If the argument was about which one is more important in CS, then I would agree.
Generally, if you look at the kind of math they teach in schools you'll come to a conclusion that they could teach you more interesting and useful stuff. Anyone who took part in math competition would agree. The math topics they teach is cropped just to the bare minimum required to learn calculus, because people agreed, that if anything people should know calculus.
>>54491843
Yeah, thats a great idea. Bots would never be able to solve simple calculus problems.
>>54496169
It's not to weed out the bots. But still - wolfram.
>>54495856
>I went to college to learn frameworks I could have learned by myself
lmao when will the CS == pajeet trainer meme die?
>daily reminder there are people who won't consider you an adult unless you know calculus
>CS isn't a programming degree
>my CS degree isn't being made worthless by pajeet and meme kids at coding camps
HAHAHA
Calculus shows up in asymptotic complexity. Real Analysis makes the study if asymptotic complexity more rigorous but this is far more detailed than most CS majors will delve into.
>>54496483
>CS degree (...) being made worthless by pajeet and meme kids at coding camps
That's like an EE complaining about kids in Technical HS learning to be electricians.
>>54494887
Aside from intro courses, many schools don't teach you how to program. They teach abstract concepts/methodologies and it's up to you to learn marketable skills/techs.
>>54496560
Sounds like you went to a shit school. Mine taught be Python, Java, C, C++ and C#.
>>54491591
>you don't need Fourier analysis for databases
>>54496580
>thinks that makes his school good
>>54496580
the sad thing is i know u arent even trolling
>>54496614
>school teaches employable skills
>lmao what a shit school
>>54496607
>you don't need college for databases
ftfy
Every Computer Science major should be required to take:
Calculus I
Calculus II
Calculus III
Linear Algebra
Introduction to Mathematical Proofs
Real Analysis
Abstract Algebra
Probability/Statistics
Advanced Math Logic Course
Data Structures
Algorithms
Bare minimum
>>54496645
lmao no
every CS major should be able to write his own kernel everything else is bonus
>>54496637
>you don't need college for databases
>>54496635
>knowing a multitude of languages with C-based syntax
>employable skills
if you think programming is about writing code then u dont know shit
>>54496645
>Real Analysis
>Abstract Algebra
>Advanced Math Logic Course
Definitely no.
>>54491591
but for digital signal processing is absolutely necessary.
>>54496666
>tfw you have already written your own kernel
>tfw you wrote your kernel in Pascal
>>54496549
Are you really so delusional as to think that 95%+ of CS graduates don't get "software engineering" aka programming jobs?
Pajeet and coding academy meme kids are taking over these jobs, thereby diminishing the value of a CS degree. Vocational school electricians aren't taking jobs from people with engineering degrees.
>>54496635
My school taught me things that will keep me employable in 5 years
>>54496699
C has been in use since the 70s. Meme busted.
>>54496698
>Are you really so delusional as to think that 95%+ of CS graduates don't get "software engineering" aka programming jobs?
in reality most CS graduates get code monkey jobs not "software engineering" jobs.
they don't engineer anything because they just glue shit together like their professors told them how.
>>54496717
>CS graduates
>engineer
pick one
>>54496717
yes, but the term "software engineering" has become a buzzword replacement for programming position.
>>54496698
They are taking their jobs because we don't need so fucking many CS graduates. It's a bubble that was supposed to burst. Same thing happened with EE in the past.
>>54496738
Newp. Software Engineering is not just about being able to program, it's about being able to manage software projects, estimating development times, estimating amount of defects in software, configuration management, etc. etc. etc....
>>54491344
I think everyone (who can) should learn Calculus. It changes the way you think.
That said, I've never even come close to needing Calculus for any software work I've done.
I'd say basic algebra and trig have been very useful to me, and differential equations is extremely important to a lot of games programming. But for the vast, vast majority of software jobs, you're never going to need any of this.
Then again, every dipshit local CRUD-app development company thinks it needs "Google-quality engineer!" and cargo-cults the same interview questions, so whatever. In the future, I guess you'll "need" particular skills solely to pass interviews.
>>54491344
front end
/thread
>>54496715
As well as C#, Java and Python?
Actually, I had C and C++ too for that reason.
>myth sustained
>>54496788
You learn present technologies to get a job in the present instead of learning some obscure language like Go or Erlang and hoping it catches on later. Meme obliterated.
>>54496759
>it's about being able to manage software projects,
No, it isn't. That's project management. Yeah, in a SE-focused CS course you'll probably learn basic document stuff, development models, but you sure as shit don't learn to "manage software projects".
> estimating development times,
Eh, how's that? Software estimates are notoriously inaccurate, and only become more accurate when repeating similar tasks. So, how can one learn estimation when one has near-zero experience?
> estimating amount of defects in software,
Uh. Double what?
> configuration management, etc. etc. etc....
No idea what you're even talking about now.
>>54496580
Started with CPP, transferred and learned Java and some C for compiler design. Aside from my first 2 courses, they still didn't teach how to program. They just used the languages.
>>54496828
Yes, and everyone else is doing that on their own.
>>54496841
YOU have no idea what YOU'RE talking about. Software Engineering I and II taught exactly what >>54496759 said.
>>54496828
Or you can learn skills that you can translate into any language you want. Myth forcefield.
>>54491782
Lol pursuing EE literally means you're on the spectrum.
>>54496770
>I think everyone (who can) should learn Calculus. It changes the way you think.
uh wut
>>54496964
And they can use their skills to find where on the spectrum their wavelength is
Autism: the thread.
I'm not even kidding when I say that /g/ is the worst board on 4chan.
>>54497099
That's why I think people should only be able to post here if they can solve a captcha involving a calculus problem.
>>54497129
>copy paste problem into wolfram alpha
gg easy
>>54497149
I know. But one can dream, right?
>>54497129
But then you'll only get the high functioning 'tists. They're the ones you gotta watch out for
>>54497149
>computational time exceeded
>>54496828
>obscure languages like Go or Erlang
wew now i know ur trolling
>>54496841
>No, it isn't. That's project management.
Project management is a part of software engineering.
>Software estimates are notoriously inaccurate
Because people don't know how to make them. There is proper technique.
>Uh. Double what?
You'd be surprised what modern math can do.
>No idea what you're even talking about now.
Literally 5 seconds on Google will bring up the Wikipedia page on configuration management.
Seriously, try reading a book once in your life.
>>54491344
In all honesty, I had more difficulties to understand the complete Rails ecosystem that to learn calculus..
>>54497837
half this shit you wrote and the person you replied to wrote is made up managerial terms for managing code monkeys.
>>54494036
Wait... image identification algorithms are very matrix based operations, plus learning algorithms, i'd say it's not that essential but you will eventually have to know what you are doing
>>54494036
You definitely need math to know what you are doing with audio, i mean how else would know what filter do you need to keep only the voice frequency? You could google it, but it results in you learning calculus.. so... it's definitely a must learn...
>>54498127
And that's exactly what separates software engineers from mere programmers, aka code monkeys, aka pajeets.
>>54496645
>no combinatorics
>no graph theory
>no fourier series
>no stochastic processes
>no information theory
>no optimization
>but definitely do real analysis
>>54496689
Abstract algebra is kinda useful but honestly, you only need a very basic knowledge of lattices, group theory and finite fields
>>54496781
Web devs are plebeians
