If a website has video streaming like youtube, is it possible to detect those that download illegally through video grabber applications? I assume such downloads would leave traceable marks or something to track down culprits, or maybe detect beforehand if someone is attempting to download video to log account details (and IP?) for future apprehension?
Why am I asking this? To cut the long story short, I'm in law school and I would need info regarding this for research case. Thanks. Hope this is the proper site to ask such question.
I hope you die a painful death OP
Theoretically yes, realistically no
>>54455007
Why?
>>54455013
Thanks. Could you explain a bit more? It would help me a lot to understand this, even in laymen terms.
Not unless you use a proprietary method of streaming the video, which YouTube does not. They just use a customized HTML5 player.
>>54454999
Not unless the application was written to tag the downloaded videos like that
>>54454999
Which side of the case are you on?
>>54454999
>I'm in law school and am asking /g/ for law advice
Good luck and all, but why
>>54455052
Prosecution.
>>54455037
Does the same apply to Vimeo?
>>54455047
Is there a way to verify this?
>>54455068
I am only asking questions with technical answers, I can handle the legal matters once I have this information.
>>54455036
Streaming a video is still downloading it, if the downloader just grabs the file as it's streaming it's pretty much untraceable. Depending on the player it may even shove the whole video file into cache and you can grab it from there too (though I don't think many players do that anymore).
>>54455036
Usually, when you stream a video, you would download the pieces of the file as you needed them.
If you use something like youtube-dl, or just download the file via URL, you download the entire file in one go.
A smart firewall could be configured to detect clients that download too much of the video stream at once, and drop the connection.
However, you should look into a piece of software called RTMPdump, which inspects network traffic and looks for video streams. If it detects a video stream, it saves it into a file. This is undetectable, but you have to actually watch the stream in real time while it downloads.
>>54454999
Depends on how sophisticated the grabber program is.
A sufficiently sophisticated grabber application can always do its thing without leaving any traces. This isn't very commonly done, though; usually, such applications are as sophisticated as they need to be to get the job done and no more than that.
As a consequence, if you choose to detect grabbing (as best as you can) and then NOT blocking the people who do it but only store the fact in the logfiles somewhere for later processing, you will probably catch the great majority of people who use these tools. If you try to enforce it by blocking grabbers directly, you create an arms race in which the grabber people keep making their tools better and better; and this is a race you can't win, because as said above there is no stopping a sufficiently sophisticated grabber for pretty fundamental reasons.
>>54454999
For fuck's sake. How petty can intellectual property holders get? "You downloaded muh intellectual property to your personal folders rather than to the cache from which the HTML5 player reads it. ENJOY BANKRUPTCY"
>>54455136
The user agreement strictly prohibits downloading the videos.
>>54455109
I see. Thank you for this explanation.
>>54455100
I will look into RTMPdump. Thank you.
>>54455169
Streaming videos on the internet is downloading them.
are you fucking retarded
not possible
>>54455169
>The user agreement strictly prohibits downloading the video.
The fact that this is the only rationale you need to put a working class family on the streets shows that you're in law school because you're a sociopath.
>>54455169
>prohibits downloading
How do you suggest they watch it if they can't get it?
>>54455169
How are you going to watch the videos then? Mail it to their doorstep?
Fucking lawyers and polity don't know shit about technology, and think they do.
No you won't catch them. End of story.
>>54455169
>>54455186
Also if you put stuff out on the web, then you allow anyone who has access to it to download it. This should not be questionable under any circumstance. The web is for transmitting data. You don't get to bully people into downloading your data the way you want them to. If you're not okay with that, don't use the web.
>>54455186
>>54455188
>>54455203
>>54455175
The videos are only available through a paid subscription.
When I say download, I mean saving to their hard drive to keep even after the subscription expires.
>>54455169
(>>54455109 here)
I should add that these best-effort method of detecting grabbers are not very reliable. Even sophisticated detection techniques will have significant numbers of false negatives AND false positives. The more sophisticated the grabbing software is, the more unreliable your detection will get, in both directions.
So what you can do is have a pretty good idea of who is grabbing your stuff; certainly good enough for rough statistics. Any particular single-person detection result will not be very reliable, though. How relevant this is from a legal point of view is something I cannot guess.
>>54455230
>When I say
What does the user agreement say?
>>54455230
What website?
>download video
>upload somewhere else
>download from their
Lol loopholes
>>54455075
I'm just describing the general notion of a honeypot, as in a downloader written specifically to catch people copying videos. If someone writes a program the copies the chunks of buffered data as they are received from the server, it would be undetectable. The only way someone could be caught in a case like this is if that person hosted the copied video himself and the original video was in a proprietary format or had some kind of signature proving it could have only come from one place.
>>54455253
That wouldn't work even without the user agreement saying not to.
Not him btw.
>>54455136
It's all about advertising revenue.
If I download the video and save it I can watch it without ads, where on the website there will be ads galore.
>>54455272
>not using uBlock origin
>>54455238
http://www.newmastersacademy.org/terms-and-conditions/
In short, it seems like it will be nearly impossible for me to have a successful prosecution based on evidence, correct?
>>54454999
>is it possible to detect those that download illegally through video grabber applications?
no, unless you wanna dont mind barring/stopping legit web clients (wither by limiting speeds or by cutting the connection)
and let me warn you, more than half of the web is composed of regular folks that make mistakes almost on purpose, implementing such a system would kill the business in a heart beat (if something breaks a couple of times people lose interest pretty fast and dump it)
downloading the content to view it or downloading the content to store it locally is the same thing in practice, even if the law says otherwise. no system that uses the internet to deliver content can implement this in any other way (gateway caches/proxies have local copies of your content, do you wanna target them to with subpoenas?)
gl in law school, btw will you take care of copyright law cases specifically or any other case like most lawyers (doing some pre-research in preparation)?
>>54454999
Short answer - no
Please die
>>54455322
Copyright cases are my specialization.
>>54455349
This case in particular seems more contract/tort law (though correct me if I'm wrong, my current legal experience is "checked out 7 books on law from the library and barely cracked one of them open")
>>54455349
Oh great. We need more copyright lawyers in the world. Thank you for contribution to a more just and fair world by making sure every person who records a football match is in jail or in crippling debt.
>>54455169
>>54455186
Lol, I accept the terms and fuck that shit.
Here's one OP:
How can the media industry profit from restricting content to its intended extent?
I can guarantee you I'd buy MUCH more of my content if the following things were true:
>I have access to it (bullshit like the iTunes Store and Amazon Music have regional restrictions. Well, how in THE FUCK do you expect me to spend my hard-earned sheckels on something international that has a regional block? ANSWER: You don't!)
>You SELL IT (Several things I download are not available AT ALL, so that's bullshit!)
>You OFFER MY DESIRED VERSION (I likes the animus, y'know? But, I's hates da DUBBA DUB DUBS, y'also know? iTunes, MS Store, and Amazon store ain't sell me the SUBBED DL videos; I normally would NOT consider pirating these, though; I just stream on illegitimate sites. I downloaded like 3-4 seasons in dubs, and I regret it as a waste of money...)
>You... wait for it... make me AWARE OF YOUR GODDAMN CONTENT (Believe it or not, a LOT of the songs and videos I legally downloaded were ORIGINALLY watched on a bullshit site, but because the above 3 were active, I expended a few GP to trade up for some Digital Items; AS SUCH, here's a good one for you, OP. How about THIS case: DOES PIRACY ACTUALLY HARM THE MEDIA INDUSTRY, OR DOES IT PROMOTE CONTENT TO OTHERWISE UNKNOWN AUDIENCES?)* more on this later...
Finally, though, before that tangential argument:
>Don't make it 2-3 times as expensive as it's WORTH. (I will GLADLY buy anime at a rate of $1-3/episode. I will NOT buy 24 episodes for $90, though. And IF you COULD convince me, I GUARANTEE you I will NOT buy it as a HALF-season! I will buy your 24 episodes for $40-70 gladly. If I got a bit extra, you MIGHT be able to convince me to buy it for $90 IF it's a FUCKING MASTERPIECE. But don't you fucking insult me with "Season 1, Episodes 1-12" and then "Season 1, Episodes 13-24" FUCK YOU.)
(cont)
>>54455380
>copyright lawyers are always on the bad guy's side
Who do you think tries to defend the little guy when they get hit with an unjustified copyright infringement claim? Protip, it's not a traffic lawyer.
>>54455344
>>54455380
I do not understand this hostility? I have been called a sociopath and have been told to die multiple times.
I am just upholding the law.
>>54454999
Oh hey HBO, find any hot streams tonight?
>>54455422
You are trying to uphold an outrageously unjust law, hence the hostility.
>>54455422
/g/ is generally on the side of fewer copyright restrictions (myself included), and mostly made up of otherwise typical 4chan users.
>>54455422
shirou.png
>>54455430
Are you a software pirate? Can you explain to me why you steal things, yet expect no repercussions for it?
I have seen many cases where the defendant was very shocked at the fact that legal action was taken.
>>54455397
I am simply hired by companies to prosecute, their business model is not my concern outside the legal realm. Profit is their issue.
>>54455430
Stealing is reprehensible. I detest thieves.
>>54455349
noice, do u lurk any boards in here or is this ur cherry pop? it would be kinda nice to have "one of you" on "our side" for a couple of "free tips" every now and then (could prevent some stuff going down)
btw in which country will you be operating?
as a side note, dont most copyright laws try to stop people from sharing the content and not exactly from obtaining it? (on my country its not a crime to download stuff [even if pirated] as long as there is no intention of sharing it [for free or not], under the pretense of testing/deleting-later-on)
>>54455397
Now onto this part. It's nothing more than logic. And I studied fucking business, so I know.
*If I am NOT aware of the content, you can count me as a LOSS. If you lose a sale to pirates, you can ALSO count that as a LOSS.
But, you ready? With the magic of LOGIC, if you lose 200,000 sales to piracy, but you expand awareness to 1,000,000 new people, of which say... 300,000 BUY it, 250,000 more PIRATE it, and the rest watch it once and don't do jack SHIT, you are...
wait...
for..
it...
ONE-HUNDRED THOUSAND sales AHEAD of expectations!
Because 200K pirated copies expanded viewership to 1M people, you are now 100K x (sale price) in the fucking green! (or black)
Furthermore, these new fans won't always just be temporary one-shotters! Many of them will be NEW LOYAL customers!
Do NOT consider pirated copies OUTSIDE your target market a loss; SALES OUTSIDE your target are a profit! And so long as the OUTSIDER sales equal or exceed your INTERNAL pirated copies, you ACTUALLY come out even or ahead.
As a FINAL note, if you are ONLY considering internal losses due to piracy, then EVERY SINGLE SALE, whether it fully covers losses or NOT, from outside the target market, ACTUALLY CUTS LOSSES.
ER-fucking-GO: Piracy has helped to float the media industry. NOT destroy it.
Oh yes, another point: Sites that try to prohibit the distribution of copyrighted pictures from shows ALSO generate losses, because I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many series I found because of a funny animated gif of part of the episode.
>>54455472
ps: or using it for profit
forgot to add
>>54455463
I'd just like to interject for a moment. The supporters of a too-strict, repressive form of copyright often use words like "stolen" and "theft" to refer to copyright infringement. This is spin, but they would like you to take it for objective truth.
Under the US legal system, copyright infringement is not theft. Laws about theft are not applicable to copyright infringement. The supporters of repressive copyright are making an appeal to authority—and misrepresenting what authority says.
To refute them, you can point to this real case which shows what can properly be described as "copyright theft." http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/may/04/harper-lee-kill-mockingbird-copyright
Unauthorized copying is forbidden by copyright law in many circumstances (not all!), but being forbidden doesn't make it wrong. In general, laws don't define right and wrong. Laws, at their best, attempt to implement justice. If the laws (the implementation) don't fit our ideas of right and wrong (the spec), the laws are what should change.
A US judge, presiding over a trial for copyright infringement, recognized that "piracy" and "theft" are smear-words. http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-theft-terms-in-hotfile-trial-131129/
>>54455463
>Stealing is reprehensible. I detest thieves.
Trying to restrict what I can do with information available to me is reprehensible. I detest intellectual property fascists.
>>54455169
>The user agreement strictly prohibits downloading the videos.
When you view a stream the video is downloaded and stored either in RAM or temporary files. You can't avoid downloading or you wouldn't be able to watch a stream to begin with. This isn't a TV you're using, it's a computer.
>>54455463
>I am simply hired by companies to prosecute, their business model is not my concern outside the legal realm. Profit is their issue.
>I am simply hired by companies to prosecute
As stated above, you're a sociopath.
>their business model is not my concern outside the legal realm
I do suppose if people were less retarded and understood a healthy dose of piracy actually benefits their companies, you WOULD be out of a job (or at least many cases)
>Profit is their issue
And they're idiots for not realizing what I've been saying:
>>54455477
I'm a Business with Information Technology major. I know the in and outs of businesses, and I can write the code to make those business goals a reality.
I see so many of these organizations as stupid as fuck, especially ones that try to block gameplay footage.
>>54455463
Usually if someone pirates a software is because they could not afford to buy it. So whether they abstrain from getting it altogether or they pirate it has absolutely no negative impact on the intellectual property holder.
You are coming down on people who are too poor to afford stuff for comitting a victimless crime.
>Stealing is reprehensible. I detest thieves.
A thief takes something you own away from you. Piracy is not taking something you own away. It is copying something you made publicly available without purchasing the license for it. The thing in question is still in possession of the intellectual property holder.
>>54455472
I come here now and then. I don't post often. What do you mean on "our side"? If you are hoping that I will help you circumvent copyright laws you are mistaken.
>>54455477
Again, I am not a business man. Profit is not my concern. I prosecute criminals as directed.
>>54455495
That will not hold up in court.
>>54455494
I understand where you are coming from, however, from a deontological standpoint of ethics, these people are guilty, and I must do my job.
>>54455534
If everyone thought like you, no business could ever profit. Businesses and their employees work hard to make profit, I am protecting them from those who would take it unjustly.
>>54455463
>Can you explain to me why you steal things
There's a parable from the New Testament where Jesus duplicates bread and fish to feed people. Copying on the internet does not necessarily equal stealing, otherwise the word "copying" wouldn't exist to begin with.
>>54455554
>That will not hold up in court.
And? Were we discussing morality, not legality. I called it an "unjust law", remember? That's not me denying it is a law.
>>54454999
>download illegally
please learn how HTTP works
>>54455534
>block gameplay footage
if for instance the folks posting said gameplay are doing it to get more subs/ad/view counts thats fine by me, i wouldnt want no camwhore barely playing my game just so she could rake in thousands of $5 kid subs
if said gameplay is shared by a person that does not have ads nor subscriptions active on it i woulldn't mind getting some free advertisement (god or bad)
wouldnt it be better if the law actually functioned like this?
come on op, be on "our side" for once, enjoying content, available for free, without profiting from it should be a crime
>>54455576
Laws are just by definition.
>>54455554
>If everyone thought like you, no business could ever profit. Businesses and their employees work hard to make profit, I am protecting them from those who would take it unjustly.
But not everyone thinks like me. People who can afford to pay for intellectual property usually pay for it. It's easier on the system, on them, and on their conscience. People who pirate are people who can not afford the intellectual property in the first place. They wouldn't benefit to the business because if they didn't pirate, they couldn't purchase anyway.
You are upholding a system that is squeezing money out of poor people out of pure greed. The system is already getting all the money it needs and much, much more from the paying customers. To strike people down for more is nothing short of sadistic.
>>54455554
>walmart would be unable to profit were it not for copyright law
>ford would be unable to profit were it not for copyright law
>time warner would be unable to profit were it not for copyright law
>mcdonalds would be unable to profit were it not for copyright law
>>54455593
You have some messed up definitions, anon.
>>54455554
>Again, I am not a business man. Profit is not my concern. I prosecute criminals as directed.
>I prosecute criminals as directed.
K, then prosecute a few of the assholes attacking small-time offenders and freaking over ridiculous bullshit, because it's a crime against their own company. By some twisted logic, like you lawyers like to use, they're furthering their own goals (vengeance) at the cost of the company (embezzlement), and further, misrepresenting the company's interests that such an expense is a good idea (possibly fraud).
If you became a lawyer to uphold ethics, you're in the wrong business. Law isn't ethics.
>>54455554
>I am protecting them from those who would take it unjustly.
And again, you're wording it as if people were taking money away from companies. They're just not giving them money.
If your take on copyright laws had the least amount of moral fibre, you'd rather be standing for causes like artists who get a few dollars for hundreds of thousands of hits on Spotify or shit like that. That's a lot closer to hard work being stolen than a multi-bilion industry losing profit by bits of $5 to $10 because some people are downloading movies they already paid to watch so that they can watch it once or twice more later.
>>54455612
I do not understand. I prosecute those guilty of copyright infringement. I uphold the law and protect businesses from cyber criminals.
>>54455611
Nobody would hire me to do this.
>>54455642
Starting to be a bit too obvious fampai
>>54455642
>I do not understand.
Again. Law is not ethics.
>>54455640
How will they hire me if they only have a few hundred dollars? I do not work for free.
>>.54455554
>If you are hoping that I will help you circumvent copyright laws you are mistaken.
see >>54455591
also you are coming on a bit harsh now, how is it circumvent a law when the content is readily available for free?
thatke a look at youtube, what stops me from saving all content available on youtube onto my hdd? nothing (as long as i have the space for it). does it matter that i have said content stored locally as long as i dont profit from it or re-share it? i dont think so.
its not we that are trying to circunvent anything, idiotic copyright laws put in place by moronic persons that dont understand how computer work (this thread is prof of that) that are hindering the internet
>hey take a look at this thing! view it good! and all the ads in it!
>if you store a memory of this on your brain or retell how this looks to anyone else i'll fking sue u!
thats basically it
>>54455672
pro bono publico since you're so morally upright, or should I say uptight
Isn't it funny how unphased OP is by all the negative attention he's getting? There is truly an emotional handicap in the equation here.
>>54455672
You should have thought of that before getting in Copyright law? Obviously you are in a system that is made to defend the rich and bully the poor. You decided to make your career about making profit for it on your own accord. Therefore, you are an asshole.
>>54455689
how did that old quote go again? something about "first, we kill all the lawyers"
You people have no understanding of law, and how the world works.
I thank you for your advice, however; I implore you to do some research.
As for this case, my only hope is to illicit a confession. This criminal will most likely not be convicted.
>>54455689
I have had families scream at me in court. If I cannot handle negative emotions, I cannot do my job. You should Youtube court outbursts, they can be very dramatic.
Having said that, I am tired of people attacking me for doing my job,
>>54455642
Hmmm, actually... I should try that. After a few of my things get going, I should hire the best of the best to revert some copyright laws to something more logical.
Be a fun idea. Just fuck society and its retardedness, ha!
>>54455665
And he's right you know.
>>54455672
Damn, you're a fucking stingy bastard.
Don't a lot of lawyers also take pro bono cases, you know, because it's the right thing to do?
But, you're clearly a troll, anyway, so fuck it
>>54455725
Thank you for making this thread, genuinely. Sorry you hadn't expected the responses to be as hostile as they were, but I suggest lurking moar next time.
>>54455725
The problem is not that we don't know the law. We know that the law makes whatever they did illegal. We just think that the law is wrong. We think it's disgusting that you're actively working to enforce it. You are morally handicapped for not understanding that upholding the law is not always right, especially considering your personal bias in the matter since you make a salary the people you prosecute could never even dream of by bankrupting them.
>I have had families scream at me in court. If I cannot handle negative emotions, I cannot do my job. You should Youtube court outbursts, they can be very dramatic.
Yeah, you're a sociopath. I am genuinely sick to my stomach.
> Having said that, I am tired of people attacking me for doing my job,
Well return to your safespace where you can pretend it's okay that you're destroying lives then by watching your home teather you literal turd stuck under a shoe. I'm just hoping there's a growing tumor somewhere in your body.
>>54455764
It is alright. It was somewhat amusing.
Goodbye everyone.
>>54455725
>how the world works
An otter kills a salmon to feed its kits. They feast on the caviar, also known as fish eggs.
You're in a world where children eat children.
Who's ready to burn the Jew cunt? Lawyers are the scum of the earth.
>>54455785
No, no. We're not done yet, Shekelstein. Keep your Jew nose out of muh internet.
>>54455798
well, c'mon, /g/uy, I have a lwyer in my family, and this person doesn't do this disgusting filth shit.
It's mostly copyright lawyers and lawyers associated with governmental shit.
The person I know deals with real estate and such.
>>54455809
those usb sticks get me every time
>>54455797
Tasty AF, famm
>>54455725
if there is anything to take from this thread i suggest these:
>viewing content available online (like a video), even if its copyrighted one behind a paywall, requires the client to be in possession of said content (why do you think you have "loading" on videos/streams?)
and
>ignore those that just call al lawyers crooks, lawyers have their place, they just dont know any better on some subjects (and neither does the judge nor the jury)
so yeah op, once lawyers stop labeling computer savvy ppl as thieves maybe ppl will stop calling lawyers fuckheads
>tfw i was really expecting ops would read the info i kept posting in the thread and try to look at it "our" way for once
>tfw al i got was another salty lawyer that ignored me over some insults from yet another salty ppl
well it was still better than most /g/ threads, gl op, also take a look at rtp protocol and learn out to code a streaming service, maybe you will start to look things our way (bandwidth limits, weird limitation only hinder functionality and accomplish nothing)
>>54455829
No, Goldstein Shekel-Hoarder just called anyone who streams videos "theives". I'd say he falls under "Outlandish Jewery" in the lawyers category.
>>54455912
No, I'm not talking about the OP. He is a piece of dogshit covered in Ebola-infested blood vomit.
I was referring to the comment
>Lawyers are the scum of the earth.
I said that not ALL lawyers are the scum of the Earth, and that I know at least one who's actually a real nice person.
It's a /lot/ of copyright lawyers and ones who dog for the govt. that are scummy shits (like THIS OP).
That's what I meant.
>>54455295
>>>54455238
>http://www.newmastersacademy.org/terms-and-conditions/
>In short, it seems like it will be nearly impossible for me to have a successful prosecution based on evidence, correct?
This is what happens when you get tech illiterate nut jobs that just copy and paste terms and conditions and believe that they will be able to just enforce them at will without understanding the implications of what they are asking for.
This is why /g/ hates normies so much
I deal with copyright lawyers every day, none of them know shit about how things work, even ones from big copyright protection companies. Hope everyone who has done a dmca takedown, dies a slow painful death.
>>54456004
Would getting into copyright law be easier then if you do actually know, considering the competition wouldn't?
>>54456035
Not him, but I doubt it. Copyright lawyers are just expected to behead the defense, according to OP.
If you go around explaining shit and why it's not actually doable, they probably won't hire you
>>54456068
What about being a copyright lawyer for the defense?
>>54456102
As OP said, those guys don't have thousands of dollars to hire him with.
Ironically their employer wants to get thousands of dollars from these same people.
>>54456126
kek, that's irony at its finest
>this fucking retard in a shit tier law school comes to /g/ for advice
MY FUCKING SIDES
enjoy being in debt for the rest of your life chasing ambulances and doing other shit work
you do realize that 99% of law schools are an objectively bad idea, right?
>>54455169
>The user agreement strictly prohibits downloading the videos.
This won't hold up in court, under the same law that allows us to use VCRs to record live TV. Q.E.D. idiot lawyer.
>>54454999
Literally end yourself my man
>>54454999
This is why lawyers are universally hated
>>54455097
>though I don't think many players do that anymore
PVStar on Android does this. I typically use it with VLC to listen to songs grabbed from youtube out of cache.
