AMD's 2017 custom win is undoubtedly for Nintendo's NX console, but what is it exactly? The NX will almost certainly have a handheld counterpart designed to be similar enough architecturally that it is easy to port to. Whatever the chip is in the console, it needs to be able to downscale into a low thermal SoC design for its eventual handheld counterpart.
But nothing in AMD's current lineup would offer this capability. The cat cores are dead, and even if they weren't dead, they're too hot. AMD's only ARM SoC is a server part. ZEN is targeted at maintream CPUs. K12 probably doesn't exist.
The most sensible thing I can think of is a bunch of ARM cores taped to Polaris. But Polaris is probably too new for a console, and AMD doesn't have a track record with Tegra-like SoCs.
What do you think AMD and Nintendo have up their sleeves?
>>54379437
>>54379442
>Processors
>Not technology
>>>/v/
>>54379421
I don't think a 14nm Puma core could fit in a handheld no matter what you did to it.
Amd is probably just doing graphics.
>>54379421
I personally think the NX is a mobile system, with the auxiliary unit being the home dock/ hub. 3DS news has been almost non-existent as of late as well.
>>54379437
no, this is /g/, the key up and to the right of 'v'
>>54379421
>The NX will almost certainly have a handheld counterpart designed to be similar enough architecturally that it is easy to port to.
what makes you think this? The WiiU and WiiU gamepad (and 3DS) are all very different architecturally. Not saying it's wrong, just wondering where it comes from
>>54379474
intel atom with AMD APU-like GPU? or just ARM for the mobile unit?
That's not what the NX will look like
>>54379503
the patent was vague about the controller shape, so all we know is it might resemble an oval.
>>54379503
Oh so you know what it looks like. Care to share?
>>54379494
Gotta be ARM now that AMD has their license back.
>>54379474
I agree. My personal reading of AMD's roadmap was that Zen was replacing Bulldozers and K12 was replacing cat cores. But K12 isn't happening and the cat cores just won't cut it.
>>54379477
It's possible the handheld "plugs in" to a home unit that has a metric ton of shader cores on it.
>>54379488
Don't wanna get to into NX rumors/speculation, but here's why:
1. Nintendo merged their handheld/console R&D departments.
2. Macronix has a bumper order of 32GB flash parts coming for Nintendo, which would work in both a console and handheld
3. Nintendo said porting console > handheld was a big challenge they wanted to eliminate
4. Nintendo needs to consolidate developer support
Maybe Nintendo's SDK will compile to both x86 and ARM?
> The most sensible thing I can think of is a bunch of ARM cores taped to Polaris. But Polaris is probably too new for a console, and AMD doesn't have a track record with Tegra-like SoCs.
A Tegraish SoC is the only thing that could possibly work in a handheld. Four ARM Cortex-A35 cores and something with like ~300 shader cores tops.
It's honestly pretty difficult to get decent hardware in a handheld, unless Nintendo decides to take the resolution all the way down to 480p to cut down on the need for shaders.
If you weren't sure /g/ was filled with /v/tards from all of the PC part threads, this thread should convince you.
>>54379584
Sounds like magic. But I have serious reservations that Nintendo is capable of doing something Apple would go gangbusters for.
>>54379437
>>54379458
>>54379565
can we get this flaming samefag banned already?
>>54379598
Ok, let's try it.
4 Cortex-A35 Cores
AMD Radeon R5 M230 successor optimized for power efficiency
1GB HBM
How hot are we running?
I'm not sure exactly, but I'm thinking "too hot." Maybe if the handheld releases in 2018 at 10nm. Which would require TSMC's roadmap to be at least mildly accurate.
The Core M lineup from Intel is actually fairly powerful. Maybe AMD will be putting something similar out with Ninty being the first to know.
>>54379421
THERE'S NO CONSOLE, retard
is clearly just a handheld that can stream to a big screen. they practically spell it.
>>54379607
I'll take a thread about a console's specs over arch autism and overpriced mobiles any day of the week
I'm really want to see a AMD ambidextrous SoC in use.
A high-ish powered part for the TV and a low-power ARM core that handles the handheld.
Also having a arm core will make the Wii (U) backwards compatibility a little bit easier since all the DRM and Wii (U) UI is handled on a arm SoC.
>>54379849
Very unlikely. Power efficiency of handhelds are not at a place where they can drive four player local multiplayer at 720p.
>>54380259
they have an interesting patent on cloud computing being rewarded with store currency.
I'm thinking it uses the handheld combined with a more powerful home console "hub" to play on the big screen, and each new local splitscreen player contributes power to the system from their controller.
if they can scale it to 4 devices, it could be huge.
Zen is scalable like Core, there should be a <5-8W design for it exclusive to Nintendo.
>>54380313
How would that even work? links to any similar examples?
>>54380506
>>54380313
The cloud computing sounds pretty interesting. It would probably be like Folding@home and the like. Whether it would be actually "profitable" for the electricity cost is another story. It really damn well better be.
The multiplayer thing seems absolutely trivial, really. Apart from battery problems.
>>54380313
But how do these computing devices talk to each other? Wireless N isn't fast enough for that level of complexity.
>>54380503
If you're including the GPU in that estimate, great.
But no handheld is gonna make room for a 5W CPU. Most of the power needs to be in the GPU.
And in any case you're probably still better off using ARM and putting the power savings into more shader cores.
The most likely solution I can see for split screen play is that each player requires an NX (no wiimotes etc). The hub will then simply display the p1-p4 screens on the larger screen in their appropriate positions.
>>54380833
Of course it's gonna be an APU, that was obvious.
>>54380833
If they go down the ARM route and try to make it compatible with an x86 console I can only see it ending like the failure that was Windows RT. Granted they'll have more dedicated support but 3rd party developers will nope the fuck out if they're told to port it to ARM too.
If Zen delivers on its IPC promises and is scalable, then why couldn't AMD make an Atom spec (>5W) CPU? In fact they might do that anyway now that Intel are pulling out of that market.
You can't possibly know what kind of SoC AMD was paid to make, it could be Zen, it could be Puma, it might not even be Polaris.
We still got the Xbone and PS4 APUs, and there's nothing like that on the market to buy.
>plebs ITT actually think Jaguar cores in 14nm silicon are too hot and power hungry for a handheld
The A10 Micro 6700 T says hi, faggots.
>>54381044
What a rude APU.
>>54381044
Maybe. It needs a lot more than 128 shader cores if it's going to happily play console ports in HD, especially if it's a 2 screen device. At least some of that power could come from the die shrink. But it's still running hot.
The 3DS XL with a much larger battery and some impressive thermal engineering could probably handle it for four hours or so.
But Vita used PowerVR for a reason.
>Video game thread on /g/ is pure specification speculation
Jesus christ, it's refreshing as fuck coming from AMD vs Nvidia consolewars
First thing's first, is it a 14nm SoC or not? It being a 28nm SoC limits AMD's options severely.
>>54380952
Agree that trying to match x86 with ARM is a fool's errand. But I see no problem putting ARM cores in a console at this point. Current consoles are weighted heavily towards their GPUs; four Cortex-A72s would serve just fine as a CPU.
As for the <5W zen, sure. It's possible. And maybe they are actively considering that after K12 fell through. But the truth is we really haven't seen an x86 with powerful graphics in a device the size of a 3DS, and AMD probably isn't going to be able to change that with Zen. The focus for Zen wasn't power efficiency like the cat cores; it may be scaleable but again Zen was never intended to replace the cat cores. That was K12.
Why go this route when ARM v8 cores save so much power (and money)? Since it would allow room for a beefier GPU, it would actually result in better performance in the handheld SoC.
>>54381690
2017 release makes me a little less concerned Nintendo would shoot themselves in the foot with a 28nm SoC. But it is possible.
At this point, 28nm is where dreams go to die.
Is there any solid information that isn't rumors and speculations about the NX hardware or is it so tightly locked down not even a fart can escape from a Nintendo engineer?
>>54381715
ARM highend cores are pretty power hungry themselves, they barely ever run at their burst clock and are running under 700Mhz most of the time.
Even Steamroller cores can underclock themselves so they run under a watt, and if SR can, Zen certainly can.
>>54381715
The problem is Nintendo already has a huge void of 3rd party support, which isn't going to improve much if they choose to make an ARM console.
While it may give them more developers for mobile/casual games, it won't give them the big 3rd part support for AAA games. They NEED to go to x86 for that.
If they're going to deliver on their promise their handheld will need to be x86 also, the devs won't go for it otherwise.
Which means they it is likely that Ninten have gone to AMD (and x86) for both systems. Whether it's going to be a low power Zen or updated cat is anyone's guess, but it's probably going to be one of the two paired with a next gen GPU architecture.
They might do something along the lines of a >10W APU for the handheld with a 720p resolution, then just scale it up to a 75W 1080p+ chip for the console.
>>54381814
They are. I should've specified, while I mentioned A72 for the console, my recommendation for the handheld would be quad core A35.
The biggest problem with the handheld is, if we're porting console games to it, it needs to have considerable graphics power. It's probably a dual-screen design with 720p up top. We're practically trying to shove Wii U performance levels into this thing. So we want to make as much room for extra shader cores as we possibly can, and a cooler CPU will do exactly that.
The difference between a scaled down Zen CPU and a Cortex A35 SoC probably comes down to just a handful of watts, but that handful of watts is huge on a portable. Keep in mind we also can't do nearly as much with power scaling as a tablet or ultrabook could since maintaining a consistent FPS is top priority. Moreover, the Cortex is proven technology, while our scaled down Zen is very hypothetical. It's not hard to imagine AMD failing to meet a target TDP.
In my mind ARM is just the smarter bet all-around for the CPU. It's not going to give you the same performance as Zen would, but it will allow you to put it in a beefier GPU. That's like trading silver for platinum.
>>54382068
If you pair a bunch of anemic A35 cores with a beefy GPU you're bottlenecking and forcing it to wait.
Nothing is wrong with a Core M like SoC for the NX, decent GPU and CPU performance, besides the price I guess, but AMD most certainly won't charge $400 for it.
>>54382050
This is also a good point. x86 allows developers to move their PS4 and X1 projects over to the NX easily. But you might be thinking about it backwards.
Nintendo already has great 3rd party support--on the 3DS. That support largely comes from Japanese developers, which is no surprise given that handheld gaming systems are more popular than consoles in Nintendo's native land.
So I see them trying to scale that success up, rather than mimicking the PS4 and X1 and trying to scale that down. X1 and PS4 are a crowded field, and this would be a late time for Nintendo to jump in just to get the latest Call of Duty or NBA2K game. Not to undersell the value of those franchises, it's just not how I expect Nintendo to go. Instead, I see them building up from the handheld side, bringing franchises like Monster Hunter with them.
I hope they stay on PowerPC for the main CPU.
>>54382213
You should know they already said they are not.
>>54382373
If it's ARM or x86-64, then dropped.
>>54382213
>>54382389
Why do you want this? This would literally only provide backwards compatibility with the Wii U. Nintendo needs to look forward.
>>54382151
You've got a point there. So long as both systems support Vulkan, you could just switch hardware profiles going from console to handheld. The only issue with that is the true cross-platform games are going to be designed around a likely weak CPU due to the handheld.
While I'm sure following that design would be successful in Japan, I'm not sure how much it will help them in US and EU markets. Though really, to just be more successful than the Wii U, all they'd have to do is tell people they can play the next-gen console version of their 1st party games (smash, zelda etc.) on the handheld, no internet needed. They could achieve that with either ARM or x86 really.
I think it's going to come down to what AMD is going to do for them. Intel and nvidia are a no-go for x86, and Quallcomm/Samsung/MediaTek aren't really viable for a home console system, so in the end they're probably going to have to play the hand AMD deals them, which is liekly to be x86 on both the the console and handheld.
>>54382426
I'm sure AMD would be happy to build them an ARM SoC if that's what they wanted. They probably contacted Nintendo the day they got their license back. But if they told Nintendo the cost for the CPU wouldn't be much more, and they were confident they could get it down to however many watts, Nintendo might have been willing to bite.
As >>54382133 also pointed out, the Cortex A35s I mentioned are probably too weak. But most games only use a single large thread and lots of little ones. So you could jam one big core along with three LITTLE cores--not using ARM's big.LITTLE scaling at all, mind you, but taking advantage of all these cores at once.
Honestly I could see them going with 480p - Nintendo handhelds have always had shit resolutions relative to their time period and it hasn't seemed to matter yet.
High-resolution, 3-hr pocketfires have always been the sony (and before them sega) niche, nintendo has almost always opted for crappy, cheap hardware with good battery life and the market has rewarded them for this.
This would also allow them to directly port GC/Wii 480i/p games with no scaling required, as well as obviously matching up well with their 240p catalog. 540p is also an obvious option, but doesn't scale up as well.
I think the handheld will be the actual console, sold relatively close to cost, with the eGPU/dock thing targeted at "enthusiasts" (and they'll try to make corresponding "enthusiast" margins on it).
Everything they've written so far seems to me to indicate that games will be compiled once, with playing on the handheld vs the dock simply a matter of flipping the graphics/enemies on screen etc switch from "low" to "ultra" etc.
/uniformed speculation, jej
>>54379421
that's not stopping the Steamboy from running amd
>>54382790
>480p
Forgot to mention that the "dock" or whatever they want to call it will obviously not run at 480p, I'm guessing they'll go with 1080p, even if they fake it with 1080p for 2d, overlay text etc and the actual game resolution at an upscaled 720p.
>>54381277
underrated post
>>54382790
> 480p
It would actually solve a lot of problems from a design standpoint for the handheld. You can drop a whole mess of shader cores off at the last station if you aren't bothering with HD.
I am honestly still amazed at what Sony and PowerVR pulled off to get 720p on the Vita. They didn't get enough credit for that technological marvel.
>>54382907
Yeah, they did it, but it wasn't too pretty. resolution isn't everything.
Yeah, I don't see highres happening. Nintendo has very strong opinions on what an acceptable experience for mobile is, and it doesn't heavily depend on resolution.
Whether that clashes with their convergence idea is a good question, though.
>>54383017
True. They cut literally every other to make 720p happen. Pretty much what was necessary to make HD a reality.
>>54380777
WiGig. Do you even future wireless?
