GTK vs QT
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Why does GTK still exist? QT is so superior.
>>54298469
Lots of sponsors who are paying the developers, and a lot of retards using GNOME and Unity shit, which is why the sponsor are throwing money their way.
all the qt applications I use are somehow really hideous
>>54298469
Because qt wasn't free until recently you fucking faggot. You think all software changes over night?
>>54298490
Why not just rewrite GNOME and Unity in Qt? It's open source so it wouldn't be that hard to do. I use GNOME and KDE and I really don't care either way, but it's obvious which framework is superior.
>>54298502
So you think KDE plasma is hideous?
>>54298469
GTK emerged at the right time in the right place in open source form. QT is superior, but was not open-source friendly until later. Anyway, choice is good.
Qt doesn't work in C
>>54298490
>retards using GNOME
>>54298522
How long has it been LGPL?
>>54298534
C is like playing tennis with a hand grenade.
>>54298523
>So you think KDE plasma is hideous?
Yes. I thought this was obvious.
>>54298553
C++ is doing that with a nuke with some sort or safety feature, but you're not really sure if it works
Yes why don't you start to rewrite hundreds of existing GTK programs.
Why not use motif?
>>54298553
>C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg.
>– Bjarne Stroustrup
Because GTK btfo qt in every single way.
>>54298583
it ugly
>>54298590
*Mind Blown*
>>54298469
you can program GTK stuff with C.
But whatever. As a programmer that did both, I don't really care using one or another, they are almost the same when you code.
>>54298595
CDE says hi.
>>54298573
Assembly is doing that with some sort of neutron star. Safety is not something invented yet. You will die, but it feels good man.
GTK is just more consistent
>>54298469
>QT is so superior.
In what way?
>>54298610
VOMIT.webm
>>54298627
You have to be joking with that one...
>>54298469
No good DE uses Qt.
>>54298706
There is no good gtk based DE actually
>is good
>is bad
How about actual arguments?
>>54298668
It works on more platforms.
>>54298746
How about you eat a bag of dicks, faggot.
>>54298553
sounds fun
>>54298757
I doubt free software developers care about non-free platforms.
>>54298733
>Gnome flashback.
>>54298733
>Xfce
>MATE
>Cinnamon
>Unity
>>54298804
The point of free software is that it's free for other platforms to adopt and use.
Because it has a history of being free software from the very beginning
Freetards would rather use it, even if the GNOME project exercises all control and is ran by batshit insane hipsters that got fired from apple
>patch it yourself
>PATCH REJECTED NOT RELEVANT TO GNOME DESIGN GOALS
>>54298565
I also dislike the default huge and oversized look, but it doesn't take long to customize.
For example Calibre looks HORRIBLE by default, just huge and ugly. But it's easy to adjust the button size and install a different icon theme, and then it looks acceptable.
>>54298827
The point of free software is:
The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1).
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3).
Nothing about having to care about non-free platforms. You may, then choose Qt. But many don't, so they choose GTK.
>>54298469
Qt is really weird in a good way. I was dabbling in it some time ago and it didn't feel like I was programming in C++ at all, more like Java
>>54298902
It's because the framework is not just a GUI framework, it's more like a systems framework. It has so many non-directly GUI realted libraries, async HTTP, XML, configuration file-handling etc. etc. all cross-platform.
>>54298894
>The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish
That is inline with what I said. It doesn't matter if someone cares about a non-free platform or not, the nonfree platform can still adapt their code for use in their nonfree OS.
>>54298902
Fucking million times better than Java FX for making simple and usable UIs. Qt is indeed weird, but I personally found it much more usable than any other gigantic framework or library.
>>54298936
Sure but that's no reason to choose Qt over GTK per se.
>>54298952
And why not? Both are free software.
>>54298857
Someone should just fork gtk2
>>54298894
You don't need the source code for any of this.
Stallman is a commie by his own four rules, and needs to make up additional bullshit to justify the GPL
The real point of free software is to ensure that all code is available for entitled hackers to easily fuck with. Keyword: easily. Anything else is bullshit. Say it with me! Bull. Shit.
The fact that stallman makes huge exceptions for art should tip you off
>oh, it's your data, you deserve this and that, share it, modify it
>Oh yeah but if it's my good friend goldberg's record production you should respect his copyright to an extent
>>54298991
There is Mate.
>>54298996
You're an idiot.
>>54298991
What's wrong with GTK3 now?
ITT: NEETs who never published any free software of significance
>>54299021
I'm just honest about my principles, unlike stallman, who is deeply afraid of admitting that he's a fan of communist-style sharing of the means of production instead of the application of ownership to your data as if it were property (the four freedoms).
Capitalists say you can walk where you want, but must pay to use their roads, and must pay to buy a car. Communists say the freedom to go where you want is meaningless if anyone owns the roads and cars are not free.
Dishonest fucks that deserve zero respect are communists, but deny being communist and instead say they're only acting in the interest of freedom (or are communist and autistic, so unable to understand that there are non-marxist definitions of freedom)
>>54299066
BSD, MIT, and other permissive licenses are true freedom.
>>54299066
>ownership to your data as if it were property
The GPL does not invalidate your copyright.
You're still the owner of your code.
>>54298996
The huge fact that Stallman allows artworks to be copyrighted and licensed is not the same thing as a piece of software being licensed proprietary.
Unlike code artwork and assets cannot run code or any sort of execution on your computer. The GPL only covers software, things that run on your computer, not media and other things usually decoded by software. It's essentially the same reason you don't lease apartments under the Apache License. Those things aren't covered by the definition of free software and by proxy the GPL.
>>54299089
The GPL offers just as much freedom EXCEPT the freedom to deprive others of their freedom.
>>54299106
No obviously when you license under the COMMUNISM PUBLIC LICENSE or GPL all your code becomes property of the USSR and is used in creating nuclear weapons for the Cold War Arms race.
Wake up People!
>>54299125
Fucking this. Nor should depriving others of the freedom you have with free software be tolerated.
>>54299106
Copyright is not practical ownership. Copyright is not even ethically valid.
Your copy of the data is your data. Nobody else owns the source, not even the author.
>>54299107
Data is data, hypocrite.
>>54299125
>Not depriving others of their personal freedom
Dude you aren't living the American dream then.
>>54298949
as a JavaFX programmer I have to agree. it makes a lot of thing needlessly complicated, forces you to code against the framework quite often and its implementation of the MVC pattern tends to quickly turn the application into an unmaintainable mess if in isn't very well designed and carefully developed from the very beginning
>>54299130
>>54299151
Steve Ballmer, is that you?
>>54298469
No, Qt should not exist.
All it does it make installing a Qt Application on GTK harder. For example, i want to install kchmviewer, I need to download 200mb of packages just to install it.
Not to mention, Qt is bloated as hell.
>>54299144
How can something be data when you can't interpret it, understand how it works, see what it looks like, or even get the full blunt of its function. Even if you are able to crack the code and get some actual understanding of how the program works you get fined, thrown in court, and even risk criminal punishment.
>>54299125
That means it's less free, by definition. The set of freedoms it contains is smaller.
>>54299163
If you had KDE installed would you need to do that?
>>54299187
Reverse engineering is not illegal.
>>54299196
The overall freedom of BSD is smaller because some of its users deprive others of their freedom. Those who don't could use GPL for the exact same end result.
>>54299220
No. The freedom to privatize is still a freedom. You're trying to butcher the definition of freedom to fit your communist propaganda. Go to bed Stallman. It's already after 9 in Boston and you're too old to be up this late.
>>54299252
The GPL allows you to privatize your code.
It's perfectly legal to modify it privately.
Only when you publish your program does the GPL protect users from your attempted slavery
>>54299252
It's necessary to restrict some freedoms. That's why laws exist.
>>54299252
>It's not freedom unless I can deprive others of the same freedom
>WHAT YOU WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS
>COMMUNISM
This is the standard in most of the developed world's democracies and you're trying to tell me that this is communism?
>>54299285
This. Why can't I have the freedom to murder?
>>54298469
Qt is bloated, slow shit.
>>54299272
Correct. You can modify a program and not publish it if you like. As long as it follows the four freedoms it still qualifies as freedom respecting software.
>>54299301
oh look the retard arrived. every thread has one
>>54299312
We've had one here for a while now.
>>54299272
Now you're butchering the word privatize. I meant make it closed source and proprietary, obviously. PRIVATE.
>>54299285
That's cool, but it also means that GPL is less free than BSD, which is what I'm arguing here.
>>54299288
All of the world's democracies respect private property rights, copyright, and patents, so your argument is null.
>>54299329
>Your argument is null
No it isn't because the right to private properties, copyrights, and patents are rights that everyone one in those democracies has not just a select few.
I just wish to use my rights to copyright and licensing by licensing software under the GPL.
>>54299377
>No it isn't because the right to private properties, copyrights, and patents are rights that everyone one in those democracies has not just a select few.
Which is why BSD and MIT are the freest licenses.
>>54299400
What about the freedom to not be enslaved by proprietary software?
>>54298820
>>Xfce
Shit
>>MATE
Shit
>>Cinnamon
Half decent
>>Unity
Shit
>>54298469
>Why does GTK still exist?
Red Hat
>>54298610
Ew fuck off
>>54299489
Proprietary software can't enslave you because it can't own you.
The freedom to own proprietary software is a vital freedom, a freedom that the GPL does not allow.
>>54299552
I don't think you know how software licenses work.
>>54299552
Why do you consider the freedom to deprive others of their freedom so vital?
>>54299552
>Proprietary software can't enslave you because it can't own you.
Proprietary software is as good as undefined behavior in C. You accept the EULA with merely no easy way to audit what's going on under the hood. It's crazy. It's blind faith.
Hoarders can get piles of money,
That is true, hackers, that is true.
But they cannot help their neighbors;
That's not good, hackers, that's not good.
When we have enough free software
At our call, hackers, at our call,
We'll kick out those dirty licenses
Ever more, hackers, ever more.
Join us now and share the software;
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.
Join us now and share the software;
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.
Stop with this licenses bullshit. I wanna learn some new things about GUI frameworks.
>>54299687
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Free_Software_Song_Bulgarian_Style.ogg
>>54299628
>>54299634
>>54299685
The fact that you own your car deprives other people of the freedom to drive it and modify it. That is immoral. Abolish private property now! Hail Marx!
>>54299765
>The fact that you own your car deprives other people of the freedom to drive it and modify it. That is immoral. Abolish private property now! Hail Marx!
Not really a valid comparison, since it's non-trivial to create a duplicate instance of an automobile.
>>54299765
Now I'm certain you don't know how software licenses work.
>>54299765
umm, no. Do you not understand how privacy works?
>>54299125
You don't really understand GPL if you have to make such retarded statement
>>54299707
GTK thrives in the domain of language compatibility. GTK is a C API which makes it very easy to integrate with almost any other language.
Qt thrives in the domain of cross-platform compatibility. It maps a generic API to the native GUI of its host platforms, except on GNU systems where there is no default.
Qt is generally more feature rich and comes with superior documentation .
>>54299848
thank you
>>54299917
Another important different was previously managed:
GTK is only a GUI
Qt is also a complete systems framework with networking, multithreading, even scripting, a freaking embedded web browser. Before you think bloat: It's modular nowadays. A command-line Qt program does not depend on any GUI code
>>54298469
I find a lot of QT programs look kind of ugly compared to gtk3 programs. Gnome has the Human interface design thing that makes a lot of GTK3 programs look very "sleek", "professional", and consistant. Also I still think Plasma's breeze theme still doesn't look as good as Numix or Arc on GTK based distros.
>>54299497
Cool opinions!
>>54300802
>flat design meme
>>54300826
Just like Plasma is doing now. It just looks better on GTK.
>>54300802
Numix and Arc theme looks like toy theme made for teenage faggots.
>>54300802
Fascinating meme
>>54300979
That looks disgusting; the clock especially so.
Anyone know of any legacy gui toolkits that were a wet dream to use? I don't wanna use it, just looking to get ideas for my gui toolkit that I'm trying to develop for my wayland compositor
>>54300979
yeah, uncustomized kde looks bad. Change the icon view, make the default fonts 2 sizes smaller each, only show the icons, set icon size to small. Then it should look better.
>>54301010
Shit ton more polished than toy os Numix or arc theme
>>54298523
>Why not just rewrite GNOME and Unity in Qt?
What do you think Unity8 is?
>>54298682
>>54299528
Underage b&
>>54298893
yea right
>select superior oxygen icons
>you still see breeze shit here and there and in the right side of the panel
>>54298706
LXQt
>>54299021
mate it going gtk3 afaik
>>54299497
>>>Xfce
>Shit
>>54298540
Literally decades.
>mfw the 90s are "recent"
>>54298610
Don't let the obvious troll tell you it looks bad, CDE has pretty good looks.
>>54298996
>commie
wxWidgets if you want native look and feel and tk if you want same look across platforms
>>54298523
>So you think KDE plasma is hideous?
You must be new here. It's a common ricer meme that KDE is ugly.
>>54298553
Statements like this out you as someone who hasn't used C enough.
GNUstep > All
If retard gnome faggots hadn't fucked it all up in 1996/1997 because of "Apple bought OpenSTEP now we aren't so special snowflake any more :'''''(" GNU/Linux desktop would most likely still be using GNUstep or based on it and thus have full compatibility with OS X gui applications.
>>54298857
>>54298857
>>patch it yourself
>>PATCH REJECTED NOT RELEVANT TO GNOME DESIGN GOALS
>>54304345
this.
>>54298573
you too.
>>54300802
>gtk3
>professional
lmao
>>54300802
>consistant
I read that quite often in the last weeks. It's probably the same fagtron.
>>54298469
GTK has nice software written in it that has no Qt counterpart. Like a vector image editor or a font editor.
Also, Vala is nice, I wish there was a nice language fully supported by Qt, but all you get is C++, Python and ShizzleJS.
>>54304977
There are definitely Qt vector image editors. Vector image editors seem to have become a mandatory part of free office suites, all you had to do was check KDE's.
>>54304977
Have you written any gtk applications?
Any Qt applications?
C++ and python are decent languages, C++ is fast to run, python is fast to write. (although I have only worked with the C++ interface personally)
I am sure there are good gtk applications which doesn't have a Qt counterpart, but when there is a comparrison, Qt is the one that looks best regardless of the platform, it is usually the one with the best features (mainly because kde makes a lot of applications in a spin of Qt).
Try listen to the talk linus gave about the move to Qt.
>>54298610
It look bad, but fuck does it look comfy.
>>54304977
Qt have more specific targeted application compared to GTK.
- Altera Quartus (PLD design software)
- Google Earth
- Telegram
And even some commercial games (Dota 2, Battle.net, etc).
>>54300979
disgusting
how can you compare this shit to nautilus
>>54305130
dota2 uses Qt?
How, why and where?
>>54305108
>Try listen to the talk linus gave about the move to Qt.
what were the talks about? I seriously hope he doesn't condone a move to a C++ framework after saying he would prefer that every C++ programmer would piss off and that he would choose C even if the choice of C were to do nothing but keep the C++ programmers out.
>>54300979
how can you stand that font?
The font in the menu is fine, but everywhere else is bold for some weird reason
>>54305221
It wasn't Linus giving the talk but the guy working with him on the application. Who knows if Linus even worked on the GUI. Just search for GTK to Qt on Youtube.
>>54298469
Qt is better than GTK but GNOME is better than KDE.
If KDE began to be as useful for me as GNOME then I would definitely switch.
>>54305221
It was about his diving application
https://github.com/torvalds/subsurface/
It is written in C++ yes.
I guess it is not that much of "his" application anymore.
I think the talk >>54305108 refers to is not by linus, but there was a talk about the move to Qt for the diving application
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0
I wish there was a gtk fork for xfce and mate instead of porting everything to gtk3 cancer.
>>54300979
>>54305191
>Implying nautilus doesn't look as cancerous
as dolphin
>>54305278
>Gnome is better than anything
kek'd
>>54305309
>mfw firefox is now using gtk3
>forced animations out of the ass in the filepicker
>folders aren't even shown at the top
How the fuck do I fix this?
>>54303801
plasma 5 is the worst DE out there.
>>54305340
KDE 5*
GTKcucks will defend this
>>54305340
Not really, no.
>>54305319
It doesn't look cancerous at all
>>54305374
One of the reasons why I want >>54305309
>>54305319
What can I say? I just prefer GNOME and Unity over KDE.
Just wondering, isn't Unity 8 part of Qt?
>>54305390
How can human beings live with that ugliness?
>>54305404
How would that help? If anything it would make the situation worse because allowing custom file-pickers is planned for the next major GTK release.
>>54305390
>half the options are in the menu in the headerbar
>the other half are in the menu in the panel
Another great design decision by the GNOME team.
>>54304423
Unfortunately that is true.
>>54298553
Sounds fun.
>>54305390
You can have Dolphin look like that too, you know? That's more-or-less what my layout looks like.
>>54305412
no
unity8 uses Qt.
I switched from GNOME when they started making regressions that they didn't want to fix.
>>54300979
>Bosnian
>Having a design taste
>>54299023
It has been hijacked by Red Hat/Gnome
I once put a lot of work into a working patch for GNOME. It was ignored.
Not one comment.
I've seen this happen many times. Gnome and Gtk follow the cathedral model, not the bazaar. It's a very closed project.
>>54305421
I just use the terminal mostly.
>>54305328
firefox-gtk2
>>54305390
It's disgusting.
>allowing custom file-pickers is planned for the next major GTK release.
Really?
>>54298469
GTK is C,Qt is C++;
GTK focuses solely on being a graphical toolkit, Qt does among other thing networking and multi-threading/process as well;
GTK has always been Free, Qt only become Free a few years ago
Not sure if any of the above make one better than the other
>>54298534
Qt (at least the graphical part of it) does work with C
>>54298583
Probably because it was proprietary until recently, i've also never heard of it until now
>>54298590
Words of wisdom
>>54298610
If this is the best example of how things made with motif look it's understandable why people don't use it
>>54298627
Consistent in? Definitely not in API stability.
>>54298746
this comment has some regarding both feel free to rebut them or improve them
>>54298804
Stallman, one of the biggest FOSS advocates in the world, says that providing Free software to people running non-Free OSs should be seen as a way to provide these users an easier change of OS in the future so if they don't care they should
>>54298820
Unity 8 uses QML
>>54299021
>There is Mate.
Mate is a DE (being ported to gtk3 btw) not a toolkit
part 1/2
>>54305538
>>54299163
>>54299163
>All it does it make installing a Qt Application on GTK harder. For example, i want to install kchmviewer, I need to download 200mb of packages just to install it.
GTK applications do the exact same thing if you dont have their dependencies installed already
>Not to mention, Qt is bloated as hell.
Qt is modular, you just include what you need
>>54299217
Distributing the code you obtained usually is though
>>54299687
>>54299715
I actually like that song, but i prefer the Stallman version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw
>>54300802
At least your opinion is justified, i personally just don't like the oversimplification gnome is going through
>>54304977
You can use Qt with Java and C# too (the other part of you comment falls under things i don't need and therefore don't know if they exist or not but if they don't they should)
I'm not >>54305130
>>54305200
Wikipedia says it uses Qt but doesn't specify for what
part 2/2
>>54305538
>Qt only become Free a few years ago
Yeah, like 16 years ago.
>>54305570
my bad, meant a few years later
>>54305424
xfce has tumbler which already offers the thumbnail function in wallpaper chooser dialog, it shouldn't be a big problem to use it as a file picker instead of GtkFileChooser
But that's just a minor issue anyway. Xfce/Mate should have their own toolkit forked from gtk2
because that's the only way to become independent from Red Hat/Gnome idiots.
>>54305446
Sometimes I wonder if all KDE users are blind
>>54305374
>GTKcucks
>Not GTKucks
Come on man.
>>54302359
I stand corrected
>Xfce
Pile of shit
>>54305191
Go home prajeet
>>54305390
I puked
GNOME is a useless piece of shit. What does it even do with all these fuckpile of gtk bloat?
>Indian devs
>>54305374
#R E K T
>>54301412
Kill yourself tasteless hipster wannabe trash
