http://www.computerworld.com/article/3059379/mobile-payments/chip-card-payment-confusion-anger-rages-on.html
>americans have problems using chip cards
>americans literally can't comprehend how to input a 4-digit code
Why is USA such backwards and why there is so much resistance against chip credit cards?
I have a feeling that it's because of shitty American internet.
The main gripe seems to be the wait times.
I've heard that they occasionally have to wait 10-30 seconds for the card readers to process the information, which is how it was around here +10 years ago.
I'd say that it's a good thing though.
Maybe this motivates or flat out forces them to upgrade their late 90s tier infrastructure.
I'm 21 years old and I'm too young to remember magnetic strips.
Anyway, I can't remember when was the last time I had to insert card into the reader. It's all contactless nowadays.
Does the US think Thriller is a new album as well? How are they JUST getting chip cards? Stupid Amerifats.
>>54199477
This. I still find some shops that don't have contactless (looking at you Auchan), but in most of them PIN is something of the past.
>>54199477
At most you have to insert the chip here. Usually contactless.
>>54199477
Contactless are pretty insecure. Not at home rn but there's a bunch of articles explaining the problems they have. One of these was that they have a limit for the payment size you can make so you can't just steal large amounts of money from someone if they put their card near you. However if you make the payment in a different currency it'll just go through because it can't do currency conversion. This might only be in the UK, but I don't think I'll use one for a while until the multitude of problems are fixed.
>>54199571
Every time some new payment technology is being introduced, dinosaurs try to complain about how insecure it is.
I have my card blocked for non-GBP transactions. If I need to make a payment in a different currency, I open my back's app on my smartphone and unlock it for a moment.
Tbh last time I was in the US a few months ago they had vending machines you could pay with Apple Pay or an NFC credit card, fuck me this is the future
Here almost nobody has a credit card and people would probably laugh at you if you got out your debit card at a vending machine
>>54199571
yes, it is very insecure but it is very convenient.
>>54199614
> and people would probably laugh at you if you got out your debit card at a vending machine
But credit cards are only for poor people.
>>54199614
Most countries where paying employees in cash is illegal have moved away from cash completely.
>>54199501
Where do you live that Auchan doesn't have contactless terminals?
>>54199449
South African Internet is a lot worse and we get along just fine with these cards.
>>54199605
Contactless isn't a new techology, it's been there for ages.
Nokia already had it in their phones back in 2005
>>54199358
The problem is that it's often ambiguous whether stores demand chip or strip. It can vary from store to store here because some stores refuse to move on while others already have.
What's worse is that almost every store has combination chip and strip readers, which only further obfuscates which needs to be used.
It's a case of failed design- the same principle of putting a handle on a "push" door.
>>54199501
Or you go to Aldi where they put a .5% surchage on credit transactions so on principle I insert my card and pay through savings. Those fuckers wasting my and everyone elses time.
>>54199449
>I have a feeling that it's because of shitty American internet.
Why would you assume that? You realize many card readers use landline, right?
>>54200789
20-30s to authorise transaction is wayy too long.
Here in Europe it doesn't take longer than 2 seconds both chip and contactless.
Not sure how long authorisation through swiping works. Never had a chance to use it.
>>54200825
I've used chip and it takes maybe 3 or 4 seconds. I live in a state that has 5 million people total, so the internet thing isn't an excuse.
The real problem is that stores have the chip readers, but none of them actually work. It's worse yet because the fucking chip reader glows when it's ready, but you can't use it because the store doesn't have it setup.
>>54199358
there is nowhere in my entire state (SA) which does not have contactless, I haven't put in a pin in so long I don't think I can even remember what it is.
>>54199358
We don't even enter the pin where I live. You just put it in the little slot for like 4 seconds then it beeps and you pull it out and walk away.
>>54200879
OK, so the fact that states are 10-15 years behind with chips and that they don't always work is only because stores fucked up, right?
Just a question. I'm trying to understand your situation better.
>>54199358
Man, who cares? If the Americans don't want nice things, they don't have to have them. As long as they don't somehow take away my chip card, they can be as backwards as they want.
>>54200825
>Here in Europe it doesn't take longer than 2 seconds both chip and contactless.
I dunno man, here in Germany a lot of shops (especially smaller ones) still have their terminals on ISDN and that takes a good 10 seconds to authorize an EC card
never got to try contactless tho, unfortunately
>>54199358
When they brought this to canada like 10 years ago old people were upset too. I was working at a gas station (1st job at 16) and had to deal with a lot of the fallout. after about a year it became the new normal and people stopped giving a shit.
>>54200923
Well by Europe I was thinking UK and Ireland.
Murrikan is the backwards country of the world
>Can't understand metric system
>Can't understand EMV
>>54200912
It's probably because of the stores and card companies. Also every card, including shitty entry level cards have fraud protection. So if someone makes a purchase with your card you won't lose any money. We've never really needed chips.
Ausfag here we've had this tech for at least 10 years wtf is america doing?
We only have to use slot for large payments
>>54200948
>>Can't understand metric system
Except where everyone learns it in elementary school and continues using it in every science class for the rest of their schooling.
But that's a minor detail.
>>54200968
Yes because they refuse to use it anywhere else.
I mean fuck I had no idea what a mile is until I moved to the UK
>>54199358
The biggest frustration I see is with EMV Debit Cards. People think that when they use their PIN, the card will be run as debit instead of credit. Years ago, there used to be major differences between the two (debit usually came out instantly, credit could take up to three days to hit - nowadays a few banks even charge for using debit), but for the majority of users there is literally no difference and there hasn't been for years. It's just people not understanding how their bank operates.
>>54200950
ya but you have to pay for fraud protection, after chips came in most of our banks here in canada reduced fees after a year or so because of the reduction in fraud cases (although my fees just went up a bit last month so I dont really know about that one 100%)
>>54200989
>nowadays a few banks even charge for using debit
>charge for using debit
What the fuck is wrong with american banking system?
I only have debit account and card. Having or using it here is completely free except for few privately owned cash machines.
>>54200984
>Yes because they refuse to use it anywhere else.
Why would we? Good luck trying to get state and local governments to create new signage, amend laws, pay people to choose new safe speed limits on things like winding roads, etc.
Also good luck getting food distributors to switch over to metric for no benefit to either themselves or the consumer.
>>54201037
If you use it as credit, it's a non-issue. The real issue is that from the client's perspective, there is absolutely no difference between debit and credit besides the fact that debit incurs a fee for every use. The money comes out instantly regardless, thanks to improvements in technology, so it's really just the bank taking advantage of their clients.
I do want to stress that it's a FEW banks, usually ones that are smaller. You don't see it on the major banks (Chase, TD, etc.) to my knowledge.
>>54200984
>Yes because they refuse to use it anywhere else.
I mean yeah they're pretty special snowflake about it, but it's not exactly hard
Mile to km, inch to cm, etc. are pretty easy to convert
My grandma still used pounds and hundredweights (obsolete even in America), so I know what these are etc.
I don't get why it's such a big deal to other Europeans
>>54201037
>Having or using it here is completely free
Most debit cards are visa or master card and have an annual fee. If you're not paying for that then stay with it.
>>54201140
I have 2 account with 2 banks. I have both MasterCard Debit and Visa Debit card. The only time I ever had to pay any bank related fees was when I was withdrawing money abroad in different currency.
Basically, having and using a bank account and debit card in the UK is completely free unless you exchange currency or overdraft.
Allow me to educate you on how fucked up the banks and stores made the EMV rollout, OP.
Visa and Mastercard got tired of hearing from issuing banks (Chase, Barclays, Citibank, etc.) about the costs of fraud they were incurring from card cloning (the banks paid for this). A rule was passed that if the bank had a chip card but the merchant didn't support it, as of October 2015, the merchant (store) where the fraud occurred would now have to pay. A few cards were issued in 2013 and 2014 in the US with chips mainly aimed at travelers. Most were chip and signature because banks thought Americans would find entering a pin inconvenient.
We get to mid 2015 and stores start realizing they have to upgrade their card readers. So they start buying terminals that support chips. Only to realize that the software running on their cash registers doesn't support chips. There's also a shortage of both terminals that can accept chips and chips to put in new credit & debit cards. Banks have to ration it and send to high spenders/frequent users first, replacing other cards later.
When you go to a store in the US now there is about a 50/50 chance of the chip reader working. It seems like if you swipe you get told to dip and if you dip you get told to swipe (i.e. you guess wrong more than half the time). Banks haven't figured out the speed bit yet and it's really slow (Visa says they are going to get card readers patched to remove the card when the processing on the card side is done rather than entire transaction; it will seem faster because people will get to remove the card sooner and the transaction will finish as they return the card to their wallet).
>>54201214
Why even bother with chip in 2015. Can't you just straight to contactless?
>>54201245
We've had contactless payment since the early 2000s. No one cared about it and no stores wanted to buy the readers.
>>54201245
Banks started issuing contactless in 2004 in the US, most gave up by 2009 and stopped. When early in the US they cheaped out at first and used chips that broadcast a static challenge, meaning using a reader on the card once was enough information to repeat that as much as you wanted and impersonate the card indefinitely. The media had a fucking field day with this.
Now the chips use dynamic CVV (you can't clone the card, it does challenge/response on each transaction) but to the american people RFID = insecure in their heads. Reputation is ruined.
>was against contactless at first
SO convenient that it's hard to avoid now.
>>54199358
the issue in my area is widespread adoption, businesses that have the machines often don't have them working. Also, in the south, people think its a government conspiracy or some shit
>>54201344
Conspiracy to what?
>>54201140
my card is just set up when i select savings it debits straight to my bank, if i select credit it puts it on credit. no fees. I've never tried the cheque option but im pretty sure that option was just put there 30 years ago so old people wouldnt be scared
>>54201360
First they thought they we would insert chips under their skin, but we made it a lot simpler by printing onto the most valuable object in their wallets.
-da gobernmunt
>>54201388
Come on, people this stupid would very quickly forget to breath and die out
>>54200984
>"doesn't use" somehow equates to "can't understand"
>>54199614
And where is "here" fag?
>>54201480
Anywhere but US of A
>>54199658
I was in sa in 2010 and in half the shops I still had to swipe my chip card(mostly supermarkets), have things improved since when?
>>54200923
I have seen those, but thas regardless if you use chip or swipe. The machine has to actully dial to a bank(?) make connection, authorise payment, etc all over dial up or gprs(!)
>>54201550
>dial up
are we in the 80s again?
>>54200984
One mile's 1.6 kilometers, fag.
I'm not even american and I know both units of measurement.
>>54201556
Because card readers/terminals is an old tech so they still use dial up. Dial up is obviously shit and outdated but it a pretty simple tech so its still being used
>>54199571
Swipe and PIN is literally a huge mitm risk.
The contactless thing you say is not a direct technological vulnerability but depends on your banks rules: if my card gets stolen and I notify my bank within 2 days, I get contactless payments back if it's the first time, if it happens more often, the bank lowers your daily limit for contactless payments.
Used mine in Hungary of all places and no issues with currency conversion, it actually respected the limit well.
>>54201662
When we were installing them in my work place we just plugged them into internet and gave them public IP. No dialup or other bullshit
>wanting your money to be digital so the Jews don't have to spend on printing money
>>54199571
They're actually safer for the user than chip&pin. Yeah you can read the into in the card with any NFC reader but that doesn't mean you can actually get money from it. For that you'll need to be certified merchant.
Also there is no limit for contactless payment amount. Most cards are limited but the technology itself can handle as big payments as you want.
>>54199627
No anon. Using the credit card for credit is for forever poor people who can't into finances. Using the credit card for all your payments and paying it back in full every month is what smart people do. Not only you get cash backs for everything you buy and if you pick your card right you'll also get extended warranty and insurance on everything you buy.
>>54202084
Amex has paid me a few hundred dollars back in extended warranty claims and buyer's assurance (accidental damage/theft within 90 days of purchase). Totally worth it.
>>54201827
Yeah but mom and pops shop dont even have internet
>tfw got a new bank card just before they introduced nfc-enabled ones
fml
>>54199477
>magnetic strips
Shit nigga even that was a novelty in my time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wutgAlNHk#t=30s
>>54201214
>obboated
>>54199809
All of the stores around here have the combination chip/swipe.
Some stores have the chip part disabled so you have to swipe.
Some stores have the swipe part disabled so you have to use the chip.
It's a pain in the ass. You'll do one, then the clerk will tell you that you have to do the other.
>>54202930
Weird, stores here don't disable either but universally prefer the chip.
most stores around here it takes 2 - 3 seconds to read the card while i have a few stores than can take 10 - 20 seconds.
when they first got released during the holiday season last year it was common to wait upwards to a minute, if it worked at all.
the issue now is the few stores that haven't upgraded support for chip readers yet. many of the few have the chip readers, but haven't bothered to enable them.
makes it confusing because its not all uniformed yet. at x do you use the chip? or do you slide?
>>54199358
>americans literally can't comprehend how to input a 4-digit code
Hah, we don't even have to do this much yet. Both of the cards that I have are chip & sign, not pin. Banks aren't going to require PIN for another 2 years or so.
>>54203094
>Both of the cards that I have are chip & sign
European here.
I was always wondering, how cashiers are verifying that your signature is actually yours? Do you sign on some kind of graphic tabled and they just quickly compare it side by side or what?
>>54203115
You're supposed to sign the back of the card.
>>54203141
But if you lose your card then someone can easily wipe your signature off and replace with his own.
>>54203115
>I was always wondering, how cashiers are verifying that your signature is actually yours?
They literally don't. Ostensibly they're supposed to match the signature you have on the back of your card, but literally no one does.
There was even this experiment this man did (on some blog, I forget what) several years ago, where he just went around to various stores and purchased various items to see if anyone would ever check his signature. He put down X marks, drew dicks, used blatantly fake historical names - nothing.
Only time he was ever checked was when he pretended he was going to buy like a dozen flat screen TVs at Best Buy. The manager cashed him out and actually checked his signature against the card and refused to let him buy it until it matched. So yeah, they literally never check; but they maybe just might for very large purchases.
>credit cards
Oh look, more kids that have fell for the scam.
Cash only for life. Yes, you can have a real job and a real place to live using cash only, don't let the fucking idiots tell you differently.
>>54199488
motherfucker we GAVE you thriller
Europeans are the fucking worst
>>54203161
>he thinks there's any difference in paying off the balance every month
Oh look, it's one of these retards.
>>54203161
>he doesn't know about debit cards
>>54203161
Not in America.
If your over 18 in America with an empty or bad credit report you might as well kill yourself.
>>54202930
Most stores I've been to (with the exception of Wegmans which has the chip part disabled for some stupid reason) have it set up so that if you try swiping with a chip card, the terminal will tell you to insert it instead.
That's how they all should be until we're 100% past mag-swipe.
>>54203172
>he believes that if he's rich enough that the false prestige of using a credit card is better than just directly paying for things
Oh look, it's an actual retard.
>>54203175
>he doesn't know that those things will get you fucked if somone else gets access
>>54203232
>he doesn't know that those things will get you fucked if somone else gets access
>this retard thinks carrying cash is somehow perfectly safe
Yeah, your bank will totally reissue you the cash that someone stole from you, right?
>he believes that if he's rich enough that the false prestige of using a credit card is better than just directly paying for things
How fucking stupid are you exactly? You think you need to be wealthy to use a credit card? Good god are you fucking retarded. I get like 50 dollars back a month thanks to the reward card, if it ever gets stolen absolutely none of my money is at risk as it's not cash in my wallet, nor is it directly linked to my checking account. I don't pay any interest as I pay off the balance every month - the exact same cost as if I paid for everything with a debit card or cash that month.
Oh, and whether you use a credit card or not, you're still paying for the "privilege" to use one as every store that accepts credit cards as a form of payment, has to increase their prices every so slightly to cover the charge cost of actually accepting the credit payment. You pay that regardless of your payment method.
tl;dr Kill yourself you ignorant, uneducated fucking twat.
>>54201013
Not alot of people notice fraud so they hardly have to pay out in the first place, and when they do, insurance takes over. They all calculated that its cheaper to buy insurance annd pay out fraud once in awhile versus actually doing anything innovative.
>>54199358
my code is 0000
Credit cards are a good tool if used the right way but if you without limiting yourself and overspend then you get fucked
>>54203514
codes don't generate patterns like this.
>>54203301
Here's a little tip, kiddo. You don't carry all your cash with you. When you carry around your fucking bank card and keep all your cash in a bank, YOU ARE CARRYING AROUND ALL YOUR MONEY.
Also, you're an idiot to think that banks give a fucking shit about you and are ready to fuck you over if anything happens to you. Enjoy being a brief moment from complete financial ruination by credit cards if anything you're not prepared for happens. Credit ratings are a fucking cancer on modern society and by carrying around a fucking card and buying things on credit you can't afford, you are supporting this retardation. Fuck you, fuck banks, and fuck the very notion that you can "pay" for something that you don't have the actual money for.
Not to mention that banks and by extension, the government knows everything you buy and everything you do, a privacy nightmare.
Credit cards are stupid.
>>54203514
It is not possible to set such pin
>>54203584
>YOU ARE CARRYING AROUND ALL YOUR MONEY.
And you lose none of it as they were fraudulent purchases. Wow, that's fucking hard.
>>54203584
>Credit ratings are a fucking cancer on modern society and by carrying around a fucking card and buying things on credit you can't afford,
What part of paying off everything do you not understand? I can afford everything fine.
>>54203601
Talking about debit cards here. Fraud doesn't count for those, you're just shit out of luck.
>>54203619
READING COMPREHENSION, little kid, do you know it? I was talking about non-CC stuff like buying fucking expensive houses and cars and other shit on credit that people stupidly do.
>>54203648
>Fraud doesn't count for those, you're just shit out of luck
You keep forgetting that this only applies to the USA.
>>54203648
>Fraud doesn't count for those
Yeah, actually, it does. How do you not fucking know this?
>READING COMPREHENSION, little kid, do you know it?
Do you, retard? I wasn't talking about any of that. The fact that you're going off-topic for something I never once discussed that has nothing to do with the position on credit cards that I asserted is your fucking issue, not mine. Maybe next time you can try staying on topic and hold an attention span for more than 5 seconds.
>>54203584
>it's not possible to set daily withdrawal/purchase limits to cards
>owning a credit card means you can't plan your finances
I'll admit that credit cards can fuck your shit up if you use them like a fucking idiot. However smartly used they are safer than cash and will earn you hundreds of dollars of money every single year.
Also banks aren't the entity you should be worried about tracking you. It's the shops. And I'll admit that that is a problem with credit cards and the reason why I still use cash for certain purchases.
>>54199449
Basically this
AT&T has a practical monopoly on those creditcard readers, with contracts for almost every fastfood and franchised superstore out there. They're worse than comcast in rolling out new standardized point of sale readers, which still use 3G signals.
>>54199358
>using tracking device cards
>any year
lol, and he's proud of it
>>54199449
>I have a feeling that it's because of shitty American internet.
it's not
in Canada our situation with internet is even worse but even here chip cards only take a second or two to authenticate and process.
>>54204094
Yeah in the US it seems to depend completely on the retailer. At some retailers, chip payment only takes 2 seconds, at others it can take over 10. It's probably software related, not internet.
>>54203959
>he says while using his nsa-approved tracking device while on a site that doesn't even hide the fact that the fbi has a backdoor
