Why do programmers not use Windows?
Is Linux or OS X better for programming?
>>54186678
most programmers do use windows.
>>54186678
yes.
1) if you do android programming, it's advised to be in a linux or other unix like environment
2) if you do iOS programming, you HAVE to use OS X.
3) you can compile and test windows programs in linux, but its harder to compile and test linux programs in windows
>>54186678
depends on what type of programming
>>54186705
>linux programs
why would anyone make these?
>>54186752
Because they actually add value to the places that count.
You know billion dollar industries and not some aspies riceroni.
Depends on application but C/C++ development is way easier in a Unix environment. Mostly because of standardization. The compilers and build tools know where to look for libraries so you don't have to go through the trouble of setting up paths and linker stuff every time you start a project.
>>54186752
because they're useful ?
packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz
>>54186678
there's this funny thing called a package manager
>>54186884
>package manager
hehe
>>54186787
but billion dollar industries aren't cross platform so there is no point in choosing windows or linux over the other, the programmers are forced into the ecosystem. If you are developing for a large software project that uses .net, your employeer isn't going to let you do it in linux and risk incompatibility.
>>54186884
chocolatey. one-get. apt-get in bash for windows.
>>54186752
to make the shit summer movies you watch, design the processors that run the machine you use to shit post and wank it Chinese cartoons etc...
>>54186705
>1) if you do android programming, it's advised to be in a linux or other unix like environment
Why do you say that? The tools are exactly the same on either platform.
>>54186897
True, though that's becoming less and less true.
>>54186678
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux,
is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux.
Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell
utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day,
without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU
which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are
not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a
part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system
that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run.
The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is
normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system
is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux"
distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
>>54186897
but lots of billion dollar industries use Unix or Linux based machines for their infra, as well as Windows for other purpose.
Depending on the usage, it makes sense to differentiate.
>>54186952
Not about the tools bruh, its about how well the software works on a unix workstation vs windows.
>>54187004
>>54186678
If you know anything about computers you will know that Windows is hands down the best environment to develop in.
>>54187072
500 Microsoft Points™ have been credited to your account.
Thanks, Kumal!
>>54187072
this
>>54187111
nice shitpost, faggot
>>54187072
go develop and test embedded systems applications on WIndows...
>>54186678
Most do, the cool shit i like is usually linux based.
Up until CMAKE getting a universal build for shit was damn near impossible. sure you could Cygwin or Mingw but if you MSVS thats just more shit on your system
Linux has an advantage of package managers
When i'm making something and i want 6 different libraries:
on windows it's usually pray they have a Visual Studio compiled one - if not pray their dependencies are included or pray that their dependencies aren't hard to build for your system
In linux, doesn't matter if you use GCC or Clang - if you want 6 libraries, you can usually install by package manager - if you have to compile a library, it's dependencies are usually in the package manager...
It's shit like that that really makes me avoid C\C++ - and on windows i usually stick to C# and looking at Go - i still do C++ for shit, but if a library doesn't exist with a precompiled i just say fuck it and don't use it or make it in lunix.
With the advent of VS Code - Linux coding got a fuck load better imo
>>54187195
You keep saying "linux", but linux is just a kernel. Please leave /g/, there is nothing you can contribute.
>>54187072
>windows doesn't even allow viewing of it own source code.
>needs to borrow unix terminal because powershell sucks.
> last good version was XP
>proprietary licensing shoved down your throat
>Doesn't come with pre-installed programming language support
>Crashes hardware upon updates
>>54187227
fuck off. we all know what he is talking about.
>>54187227
Kill yourself.
>>54186900
all of them are bullshit.
>>54187034
Have worked for two >$5 billion companies. Both companies have Windows and Linux. Most in house software runs on Linux servers. Most COTS runs on Windows, but sometimes Linux appliances.
Both places use AD to manage users and at one point both used Exchange and Windows file shares. The latter company is a large software company that now runs Google apps internally. It's always run the core product on Linux servers.
The other company is in the medical device space, and runs all web sites and the core internal systems that run the company on Linux.
>>54187227
>You keep saying "linux", but linux is just a kernel
Listen up retard, Linux is CENTRAL to the operating system. The bloated 'coreutils' can be easily replaced (and have been by the Alpine team, Android, and so on). The DE/WM, Xorg/Wayland, and so on, are MUCH more relevant in terms of actual user experience
>>54187401
Lol man just stop replying, he's trolling the shit out of you. Shit nigga like close your eyes.
>dozens of GB for an IDE when you can just get build-essential and geany and be done
>implying anyone wants to navigate through the retarded directory naming in windows
>package manager for developers
>bash is so quick and simple even windows 10 wants it
I tried to learn VBnet a long time ago as a kid but just got turned off by all the complicated bullshit you had to do just to run Hello World not to mention all the bells and whistles of VS
>>54187281
meanwhile on Linux
>update video driver
>system doesn't boot
>>54187401
>The DE/WM, Xorg/Wayland, and so on, are MUCH more relevant in terms of actual user experience
These are not part of the operating system, these are parts of distributions of the GNU operating system.
>>54187784
So you were too retarded to program a Hello World in Visual Basic.
>>54187992
Nah, I worked on full projects in VB and read the entire book. But I just didn't like VB and windows development at all, man. I spent quite a bit of time in VB6 prior on some open source game dev programs. But just because I did it, doesn't mean I liked it.
>>54187906
>>54187992
Hi Pajeet! I thought you took a vacation day today?
i code on windows with C#/Visual studio, couldn't imagine anything comfier
>>54186701
/thread
>>54186678
I'm a consultant and have worked at probably a hundred different companies the past 20 years doing software engineering in defense, automotive, aviation, nuclear, heavy industry sector etc. I have to say that pretty much every single company after 2000 had windows on their development computers.
Yes some of them used different remoting solutions like running some kind of honeywell remote xserver and similar from windows and others used virtual machines. But not a single dev computer ran linux due to the simple fact that active directory and MS office is industry standard.
>>54188273
The last 3 companies I worked at over the last few years almost exclusively worked with GNU+Linux.
Of course my CV says that I refuse to work with proprietary software, so I might be biased.
>>54188273
which is a sad state.
Aside from technical benefits, I've found that Windows simply drives a lot of developers (including myself) nuts/makes them unproductive. The reasoning is different for everyone, but for me Windows' process+window management drives me up a wall and while I've never particularly liked Microsoft UIs, Metro/Modern is horrible, and if I'm not mistaken you can't even change themes to try to rectify it under Windows 10. Windows XP and 7 could at least be made serviceable with a well-picked msstyle and avoidance of MS software (third party as much as possible).
Oh yes, and MS is still clinging for dear life to the atrocity known as ClearType. Windows text rendering is downright unpleasant compared to freetype+infinality patches, freetype-ubuntu, or OS X text rendering.
The majority of programmers program in the Windows environment.
>>54186678
Significantly so, yes. First: package managers and standard install locations mean you can install any dev libraries and start programming immediately without messing with 36 OS-level settings. Second, a full unix-like environment gives incredible control for file operations. Third, your computer won't shutdown in the middle of work.
>>54187142
Embedded developer here. Any embedded computer you are going to buy is going to be preloaded with windows CE of some kind of flavor. Linux is usually only available on request when ordering over 100 units.
As long you keep inside the windows ecosystem the remote debugging tools are very nice. And I have to say that the debugging tools for windows like windbg might be one of the most powerful debugger I ever worked with. GDB are lightyears behind.
>>54188347
I lol'd
More users use Windows, so more programmers tend to use Windows, and target Windows programs, which must use a Windows C/VB API. Although the Linux scheduling system and glibc and probably even musl performs theoretically better than the Windows API, and packs more features (very limited libev, boost, mpi support on Windows), Windows has an integrated UI system. Linux you have to choose, while xlib is essentially universal for UI programming, it is an absolute disaster and typically relies on more abstract toolkits such as GTK/QT/FLTK/TK to do the job. By large, GUI programming would be far preferred on Windows, and it's far more intuitive. Seldom are there IDEs which want to deal with GTK and QT simultaneously, intuitively. It's getting far better, though, glade and designer are fairly intuitive at this point but requires a bit of tweaking to get it to the level of functionality VC gives you. Personally, I also prefer GCC over ICC and VCC.
>>54188347
good joke there, m8
>>54188376
Hello pajeet!
>>54188292
Cool. Which companies were they? I'm assuming some kind of hipster web development companies with less that 10 employees and you used dropbox for filesharing. I've seen such companies too but they ran windows.
>>54188300
When you need to manage thousand of employees with people leaving and joining the company weekly there really is only one solution. And yeah I'm annoyed that people send me word and excel files but honestly there is no real competition. MS have killed off every other competing product by providing good enterprise friendly environment.
>>54188433
>Which companies were they?
Data analysis and management, image recognition. Over 100 employees.
>>54186678
>Linux or OS X better for programming
False. Source: I've used all three OSes for several years and I can perform basically any programming task in Windows easily. Of course I'm not retarded like some people here.
>>54188292
I suppose the code you wrote at these companies got released as free software too.
>>54188363
>>54188386
>>54188396
You clearly haven't worked in the embedded industry where you have been in charge of finding new suitable embedded computers intended for interaction with a human. I was quite pleased when one embedded computer provider (maximatecc) switched to linux but sadly the quality on their hardware and software didn't really improve.
Otherwise only French embedded hardware providers supply linux solutions without having to buy a minimum quantity first. If you need real-time properties then chances are your computer is going to run vxworks or some homebrew RTOS.
>>54188273
>dev computer
>MS office
wut
>>54188433
Go back to india rajesh!
>>54188458
Yeah outside the segment I've had contracts with. So what word processing, scheduling and email client did you use. And how did you book meeting rooms?
>using botnet that works and looks like shit
thats why
>>54187072
Thank you for this so helpful post pajeet
>>54186678
Node.js development is (slightly) easier with Linux than it is with Windows.
>>54186678
>Is Linux or OS X better for programming?
Not really, it's very simple environment meaning it's good for newbies.
>>54188527
/g/ doesn't know shit m8
The embedded POS market is fucking dominated by Windows so hard. Police and ambulances? literally 100% Windows along with cash registers and ATM's.
>>54187296
>>54187319
>>54187401
You are hereby classified as wincux faggots by the high council of /g/
Please read
>>54187004
an kindly leave the /g/.
>>54188489
>I suppose the code you wrote at these companies got released as free software too.
Part of it, yes.
My tools must be 100% libre and the company has to publish at least some free code. It's not hard to find jobs that fulfill this requirement.
>>54188550
How do you communicate with requirements engineers, testers, suppliers, validators get formal interface descriptions etc? Not a single one has so far sent a pdf in my entire career due to unknown reasons.
Sure you could use rational DOORS or some other retarded IBM solution but I doubt you are going to let a supplier into those systems.
>>54187072
i take it youve never worked with the nightmare that is the win32 API
>>54186701
this
OP is retarded.
>>54188641
In india maybe. In the developed world, the opposite is true.
>>54187044
Android Studio works on Windows you dolt, and so do all the emulators.
>>54188680
sure thing rajesh
>>54186701
html is not a programming language
>>54188680 (You)
>>54188696
Read first before posting, thank you.
>>54188600
>interned for Delphi Automative
Literally RedHat on all developer machines and testing servers.
>>54188694
While outsourced resources like Cyient do use MS technology to communicate the same can be said of the entire western hemisphere. I get that /pol/ and poo in the loo is cool and all but if you ever get a job as a developer I can guarantee you that there is almost a 100% probability that your computer will come preinstalled with windows and ms office. If it doesn't you will probably be using Lotus Note and hope you were using MS Office.
And people are going to be sending you word, excel and powerpoints to you. If people wont chances are you are so insignificant in the organization that the janitor is probably more important than you.
>>54186678
>dependencyinjection
>ibuilder
>app...
im already horrified
poo in loo
I program in Windows for work, because we use a microsoft stack. I use Debian at home for personal development, because most cli tools and open source components are easier to work with in that environment.
>>54188410
(you)
>>54186701
Citation needed
>>54188758
I didn't even know Delphi Automative was in the MDT/PDT or EMD/PSAP Market.
(Pro-tip: they aren't)
>>54188860
your mom told me last night while i was pumping her full of my babby batter
>>54186897
.NET is 100% incompatible with linux. How is a 100% risk of incompatibility a risk? Risk is supposed to be a potential, not a sure thing.
Right now I am doubting your mathematical aptness.
>>54186678
very much so.
the only reason it manages to be popular is because they have an endless amount money to throw at it until they get something that can barely function (at least it looks nice)
>>54186678
>Solution
>HelloWorld.Startup
all those buzzwords
>>54188797
Not that guy but here in San Francisco and in fact in the greater SV area you'd be hard-pressed to find a company-issued developer machine running Windows, and it's not a given that it'll come with MS Office either. Out here it's all Macs with the occasional back-end or devops guy running Linux, and Google Docs has as much of a presence as MS Office does.
And yes, this holds true for companies writing real non-enterprisey software written in C-family languages, not just hipster webshits.
I haven't worked as a software engineer outside of SV and given what I've heard I'm happy for that. The tech flexibility afforded to SEs out here is great... I wouldn't be happy with Windows, etc getting shoved down my throat.
>>54189057
>Google Docs has as much of a presence as MS Office does
>not just hipster webshits
Which is kinda weird and contradictory considering Office 365 is used in four out of five Fortune 500 companies.
>>54188727
Nowhere on android.developer.com does it say to use Unix/Linux.
>>54186678
Visual Studio is shit. Why the hell they put so many useless small buttons everywhere
and there are so many right click options the menu cant even fit the screen.
>>54189057
The world looks quite different outside hipster areas where new hyped upstarts show up daily. But what do I know. I only work on stuff that it's designed to kill hundreds of people or could kill hundreds of people if the software fails.
Where data security is so tight that hard drives are locked into a safe and employees and consultants are frisked for storage devices before coming and leaving work.
But hey it's not cool web technology where companies hand out money like candy like they did before the IT bubble burst. I did get my fun hunting exotic animals from a helicopter in Africa trip though before the fun ended 2001.
I use w10 and run vagrant ubuntu boxes for development. I find this the best cimpromise. Sime times simple everyday task can be a pain in a linux based os.
>>54186705
>2) if you do iOS programming, you HAVE to use OS X.
not anymore senpai
>>54188950
>.NET is 100% incompatible with linux.
>Not knowing about Mono.
>Not knowing about MS' recent release of .NET Core for Linux.
>>54186952
No, they're not. Many devices need manufacturer-specific drivers in Windows just to work with adb, which are totally unnecessary in Linux. Android, being Linux, simply works better with Linux desktops.
>>54189321
...like it just mounts when you plug it in?
>>54189190
loool
>>54188680
>>54186701
>>54188265
Go take a look at Google's offices.
If I had to guess you'd see something like 99.9% workstations with linux.
As for the laptops, probably 90% OS X and 10% linux.
>>54189450
>one company represents most programmers in the world
What's it like being an illiterate moron?
>>54186678
Visual Studio is really nice, Xcode is really nice too. So it Netbeans and Eclipse.
Most leet programers feel like to be cool they have to do everything from scratch. which is fine because it teaches you the most. But it's not always really practical in a professional production environment from what I've learned.
>>54186705
they make those shitty programs that convert your code for either iOS or Android but it's probably shitty even if it saves time. Not free or cheap anyway I'm sure.
>>54186752
>jerk posts
why would any make these?
>>54186897
i though programers at Microsoft were free to use Linux or OS X as long as they submitted their code the right way before they changed it.
>>54189450
Go take a look at Microsoft's offices.
If I had to guess you'd see something like 99% workstations with windows.
As for the laptops, probably 98% windows, 1% OS X and 1% linux.
>>54189450
Nigga doesn't know what he's talking about either, 20% of Google still use Windows.
>>54189548
Unlike Google Microsoft quite openly advertise the fact they use Macbooks and how much they like them.
>>54189548
Microsoft is a software company. They produce free and proprietary software for windows, linux and OS X. It's not strange if they allow their employees to use the correct tool for the job. They way MS is going right now it seems they are all about saas and it's kind of working.
>>54189476
Linux is just superior when it comes to development, man.
You can install libraries easily, compile easily, do source control easily, direct access to development tools in general.
It's secure, as in its permissions system.
It doesn't do stuff you didn't ask for explicitly.
It's faster, has wider driver support.
Also, it's not just tech companies, but computer science grad and undergrad schools.
And it's also not just Google, but the MAJORITY of highly technical companies, which need to do serious development. Windows just has no place in it.
Windows is used for:
People in in finance or whatever, more social businesses, where they have to do work in spreadsheets and office (because, of course, what is Latex?).
People in the music industry probably use windows for their stuff.
Windows is more oriented to the consumer of commercial software, and Linux to their developers.
>>54189571
I worked at Google. I'm just telling you what I saw every day.
>>54189565
I guess it makes sense for MIcrosoft to use Windows. It's not the usual, though.
>>54189638
No wonder they fired your sorry ass if you can't even read a simple question.
>>54187195
>With the advent of VS Code
Yeah, I am pleasently surprised by that editor. Keeps getting better. It only needs some mechanism to add REPL integration, and I'd switch to it.
IBM recently published some big study after switching to macs for employees and said the saved productivity from lack of downtime as well as the number of support tickets related to the macs was less than half of what the pc using employees submitted. They made it sound pretty hard to believe.
>>54189669
I'm sorry, didn't quite get that. What do you mean?
>>54189678
They literally went maximum overshill comparing new $2000 macs to 5 year old creaky desktops. Sounded more like whoever was in charge of the switch needed to justify his blunder.
I have seen surveys that show most programmers are using MacOS nowadays. Found it surprising but maybe it's because it's a requirement for iOS deployment.
Windows seems to be getting more programmer friendly (bash!), but am too used to Linux to switch away.
>>54187062
dat filename
top kek
>>54189678
It doesn't surprise me that much. Windows was practically designed to need fleets of Microsoft® Certified™ support staff because that's part of how MS makes its money (and locks companies in). Apple doesn't make jack shit on support and in fact probably *loses* money on providing support.
>>54189678
>saved productivity from lack of downtime
Why would that be?
If anything I imagine productivity going down while people get used to the new environment.
Also are we talking programmers or general "employees"?
>>54187044
What Android SDK tools don't work as well on Windows as they do on Linux?
>>54188950
>.NET is 100% incompatible with linux.
lol
>>54189709
This.
They literally published the report SIX MONTHS after getting them. A brand new fleet of $2000 PCs would've had less problems than their old systems too. Pure damage control for blowing their budget on overpriced junk.
>>54189638
>You can install libraries easily, compile easily, do source control easily, direct access to development tools in general.
You can do this just as easily in windows
>It's secure, as in its permissions system
Windows is quite secure. In fact a linux box is far easier to root. And as ACL goes it's built in in windows while it isn't in linux.
>It doesn't do stuff you didn't ask for explicitly.
Both are software. They do exactly what the developer told it to.
>It's faster, has wider driver support.
No not really. Enjoy your shitty graphics drivers. I'm sure people using linux back in the day still remember wrapping windows drivers for their wireless cards.
>Also, it's not just tech companies, but computer science grad and undergrad schools.
There are usually windows and linux labs at universities focusing on software engineering. So you kind of get experience working with the two most popular platforms out there.
>And it's also not just Google, but the MAJORITY of highly technical companies, which need to do serious development. Windows just has no place in it.
I can tell you anecdotes "proving" the opposite.
>Windows is used for:
>People in in finance or whatever, more social businesses, where they have to do work in spreadsheets and office (because, of course, what is Latex?).
Are you implying latex is used instead of google docs at google? That's funny because the only use it has is writing scientific papers. If you want to write manuals or books one should use docbook.
>People in the music industry probably use windows for their stuff.
No they probably use garbage band in OS X.
>I worked at Google. I'm just telling you what I saw every day.
Google hires anyone nowadays I guess to fill their quota of diverse workplace.
>I guess it makes sense for MIcrosoft to use Windows. It's not the usual, though.
You based your observations on a single company Google but still felt like an authority to make claims on the entire software industry?
>>54189505
>Xcode is really nice too
no it isn't (don't have enough experience with Visual Studio to comment about it)
>So it Netbeans and Eclipse.
Eclipse is an abomination (no experience whatsoever with netbeans)
>>54189821
lol
>>54189671
Holy fuck VS is available on linux and OS X. And there is probably an extension for what you need but it's probably a paid one.
>>54189861
>VS is available on linux and OS X.
No it isn't, VS Code is
>>54189711
>I have seen surveys that show most programmers are using MacOS nowadays. Found it surprising but maybe it's because it's a requirement for iOS deployment.
Maybe people using Apple products are more inclined to answer surveys and make their opinions known to the world? Kind of like vegans and vegetarians always want to make a statement.
>>54189737
I'd imagine the most common support ticket has to be "I forgot the password", "I need software X" and "I need rights to location x". All of which I don't see how it changes with mac. Except the software part since there is no software for macs.
>>54189861
>linux
>>>/out/
>>54189888
from my experience "noobs" to a thing tend to be the more vocal about something, lately many people have migrated to both Linux based and OS X
>>54189858
Enjoy your horribly outdated "secure" linux box being rooted by Chinese hackhurrs and then used in various crimes like DDoS other companies to hell until they pay a fee. The funny thing is that people on linux think they are safe against software exploits.
>>54189638
>It's faster, has wider driver support.
>has wider driver support.
>has wider driver support.
>>54188347
>>54188527
I work in embedded systems too, and all of our products use the Linux kernel. Windows is absolute shit for actual embedded development.
If you think embedded systems just means throwing your program on windows running on a shitty computer and locking the computer up in a box where users can't touch anything, you're not actually doing embedded.
For my job, most of what I have to do involves tweaking the kernel to work smoothly with our custom hardware. If we didn't have access to the kernel, we couldn't develop as tightly optimized systems.
Guess what OS doesn't let you have access to the kernel? Windows.
>>54188706
Linux is not an operating system.
>>54189999
You know what's hilarious about this post above the fact they don't understand the first thing about how operating systems work? Windows Embedded is actually open source.
>>54189999
>I work in embedded systems too, and all of our products use the Linux kernel. Windows is absolute shit for actual embedded development.
Do you have any experience working with both? I do. I have to say it doesn't really matter which OS you use for embedded platforms as long you don't desire real-time properties (well windows embedded comes in real-time flavors too). I do find remote debugging and using visual studio with proper extensions a far better experience than using QT creator and gdb.
But you can elaborate on what is so horribly bad with windows. And no "tweaking" kernels doesn't count. If you have to do that your hardware supplier failed.
>If you think embedded systems just means throwing your program on windows running on a shitty computer and locking the computer up in a box where users can't touch anything, you're not actually doing embedded.
You are saying that but most companies will still just throw an application onto an embedded computer and lock it up in a box. You sound like an elitist prick that should work with ASIC. Seems right up your alley and as close to hardware you can get.
>For my job, most of what I have to do involves tweaking the kernel to work smoothly with our custom hardware. If we didn't have access to the kernel, we couldn't develop as tightly optimized systems.
If you are making your own BSPs your profit margin got to be shit unless you provide BSP and hardware platform to other customers for them to build their software on.
>Guess what OS doesn't let you have access to the kernel? Windows.
But they do through Shared Source Initiative
>>54189142
>mfw working at Fortune 500 using Lotus Notes
I feel like commiting sudoku every day
>>54190396
>But they do through Shared Source Initiative
As someone that doesn't qualify for that initiative (and honestly has nu use for it) may i ask you a question?
What exactly are you allowed to do with the source?
Using C in Windows is like wiping your ass with a cheese grater.
Wew, another lincuck and wincuck war zone
>>54190768
>What exactly are you allowed to do with the source?
Depends on your license. Range anywhere from only allowed to view, have source available for debugging purposes to modifying and re-distributing for commercial and non-commercial purposes.
>>54190721
I know that feel. But you know no one gets fired for buying 90s IBM technology like their rational suite and lotus notes. They can point at other humongous enterprises and say "hey they also use these IBM products so they have to be good right?". And I suspect bribes are involved too.
>>54190780
>Using C is like wiping your ass with a cheese grater
fixed
>>54190917
>I'm to retarded to use C : the post
>>54186900
>not compiling from source
who /cloud IDE/ here
>>54190973
Just SSH into a machine w/tmux and use VIM. Cloud is a fucking gimmick.
>>54191003
VIM is not an IDE no matter how many extensions you slap on it. But yeah the "cloud" is over hyped.
>>54191029
>i've never used vim: the post
>>54186678
I've noticed the following:
1) Most people who talk shit about programming on Windows don't actually have much Windows programming experience.
2) They don't really understand the difference between an IDE versus vim + NerdTree + whatever.
3) When presented with the great refactoring tools of a proper IDE, they scoff and come up with all kinds of excuses as to why they don't need that, most of which boil down to, "I don't actually have any experience working in a critical codebase that's been around for 10+ years in many different hands".
4) They generally think that using an IDE means that you just drag and drop things to make your applications work (see #1 & #2 above). I find this one the most stunning since, if programming *could* be made that simple, then *why* would anyone ever program any other way?
5) It all boils down to retarded alpha-nerd, nobility-in-suffering, I-know-something-you-don't-therefore-I'm-smarter, infighting bullshit that keeps the industry low-prestige and poorly paid.
Also, if you're doing Webby stuff on anything other than ASP.NET, then Linux and OS X are much better out of the box. But Windows + Cygwin + a lightweight Linux VM is bretty great. IMO it really comes down to what tools you actually prefer. For example, I have window-snapping tools on Windows that I absolutely depend on and it's profoundly irritating working without them. That alone is reason enough for me to keep using Windows.
>>54186796
>you don't have to go through the trouble of setting up paths and linker stuff every time you start a project.
Uh. You set your libraries in Visual Studio's main "property sheet". It used to be under Tools | Options, but was moved for some completely retarded reason.
Anyway, you set that to configure your VS and you never have to worry about paths again until you start bringing in new stuff.
>>54191088
You know that there are IDE on Linux right ?
>>54191062
I'm still using it right now. I never figured out how to enter the quit mode :q
No seriously it isn't an IDE no matter how much you want it to be.
>>54189910
I bet the top tickets are things like:
> My computer won't turn on. (they just didn't turn on the monitor)
> My computer won't boot. (they fucked around in BIOS config and the machine is trying to boot off the thumb drive they weren't supposed to put in the machine)
> I HAVE AN IMPORTANT PRESENTATION AND WINDOWS IS SITTING ON THIS FUCKING UPDATING SCREEN GODDAMMIT WHAT DO WE PAY YOU PEOPLE FOR
And yeah, passwords. At the last 'startup'[1] I worked at, the non-tech CEO needed his password reset about once a week.
[1] the company was, like, 12 years old at that point. It wasn't a startup, it was a poorly run, privately held company. I'm amazed they're still in business.
>>54191128
Yes, but most of the people I hear bashing development on Windows tend to be vim and command-line types.
Really, if you're using IDEs, then there isn't a whole lot of difference between Windows, Linux, and OS X, despite the vague and unsubstantiated claims made in this thread.
>>54190944
>I think using a cheese grater to wipe my ass is worth it because its hard to do
>>54191327
>C is hard
>>54191341
C is easy, it's the implications that are hard.
>>54186705
>2) if you do iOS programming, you HAVE to use OS X.
xamarin pls
>>54186678
Yes.
I still think most programmers use windows. But linux/unix command line is better.
why isn't /g/ showcasing its coding skills on livecoding or twitch?
>>54190065
underrated post
>>54189450
Google hates Microsoft so why would they allow their employees to use Windows?
>>54191573
>coding
>>54191573
>coding
buzzword for wannabe pajeets who gives a shit
probably don't know what a stack or heap is
>>54186796
This was true at one point, but the newer versions of MSVC++ are very much inline with the standards, and are up alongside clang and gcc when it comes to the implementation of c++14.
I do all my work programming in windows, and I find that while it is different than linux, it is not much better or worse. I find that both platforms have their irregularities and annoyances, as well as their strengths.
I'm excited to see that MS is starting to come more into compliance with standards, and I hope they can undo some of the issues they've created in the past.
>>54191402
I think you still have to compile/sign/release from a Mac.
>>54192693
>I'm excited to see that MS is starting to come more into compliance with standards, and I hope they can undo some of the issues they've created in the past.
I think that is a safe bet for now. MS figured out where money can be made. It's the cloud, saas and provide what they are good at, nice fucking tools to get shit done. It's quite genius.
>>54189450
>Go take a look at Facebook's offices.
>If I had to guess you'd see something like 100% workstations with OS X.
>As for the laptops, probably 100% OS X and 0% linux.
>>54189888
A bit old, but relevant.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
>>54190065
It is a Kernel. It can be used to form an operating system.
>>54189948
Youre not getting paid today Bradeep. Your kids are eating oxshit tonight.
>>54193712
>Real Player
oh the feels
>>54186678
It's a bit easier to set up development environments for various languages in Linux (Clojure is a decent example).
However, Visual Studio is a pretty good reason to work with Windows, as well as the fact that most companies whom you will develop solutions use it.
OSX has XCode, which is a generally nice IDE, and your only way to work with Objective-C and Swift.
In the end, all three have good reasons to be used, and most of the time, you will not be restricted by any of them.
>>54186678
>Is Linux or OS X better for programming?
Yes. But that's an overly specific statement. “for programming” is redundant.
>>54186952
Also emulation is much better on a Linux machine
Infinitely. Setting up and maintaining an environment on Windows is a bitch.
>>54192771
this, you still need a mac eventually. There is even online services for this too.
>>54195284
I find this true even if you're just doing normal consumer-type stuff. OS X and any of the popular Linux distros are pretty much ready to go out of the box, leaving you only needing to install a small handful of things, most of which aren't critical and end up getting installed at some point.
When setting up a fresh Windows install you've gotta download and install a boatload of shit before it's even reasonably useful. It can take hours.
>>54189638
You can also eat shit more easily.
>>54190955
apt-build in bash then.
>>54186678
People who write Java SCRIPT are not programmers.
hairy semen torch blender colon sucker eye-less shitehawk wanker holy poop pig jizz excrement titless nugget experiment one-balled cock-tip sniffer fart handler cock wielding nerf bollock fucking cum badger bastard sod dictator cunt pirate
>>54186678
>Is Linux or OS X better for programming?
Yes
