GTK 3
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
How do we stop this fucking madness?
>http://news.softpedia.com/news/gtk-plus-3-20-to-feature-massive-css-changes-port-most-widgets-to-css-nodes-496542.shtml
>>54088738
Pic related.
>>54088773
Disgusting bloat.
>not making your GUI in HTML
Do you know what year it is? It's Date.getYear().
>>54088779
You know you can use the GUI and Widgets libraries only, right?
Also, all decent distros keep the components in different packages.
>>54088800
>java
top jej
kill yourself.
>>54088815
Right now I have zero Qt packages installed because all programs use Gtk.
But not all programs offer a Qt backend so if I switched I would be stuck with a mixture of GTK2, GTK3 and Qt.
Fuck that and fuck you.
>>54088817
No I said HTML. And I don't kill myself, the GC will do it for me.
>>54088738
By sticking to gtk2.
>>54088863
Some fucking asshole at debian or mozilla decided that firefox and thunderbird should only be available in gtk3 from version 40 so and so.
I won't maintain my own package either.
>>54088738
>How do we stop GTK from moving towards a consistent and stable interface for themes
>How do we stop GTK from giving people the ability to reimplement the GTK file chooser so they can finally sate their autism and have massive thumbnails while posting on 4chan
idk lol why not make a DE in tcltk
>>54088863
>By sticking to obsolete software. That won't be compatible to Wayland unless you put a questionable zillion dollar effort in it.
Has that ever worked?
Or is there even some monumentum behind this plan and a fork is already in the works?
>>54088863
GTK2 is over. Move on.
>>54088982
No it's just REEEEEE I HATE CHANGE.
>>54088982
>Or is there even some monumentum behind this plan and a fork is already in the works?
Several large install base programs switched back from GTK3 only to GTK2 only, such as Audacious.
GTK3 is pure shit, it's pure shit. They make hardcore changes well into the mature phase of the project instead of branching into GTK4 for that kind of change.
Gnome needs to fucking die, violently.
>>54089059
>Several large install base programs switched back from GTK3 only to GTK2 only, such as Audacious.
So you expect a fork to maintain GTK2 to happen sooner or later?
>Gnome needs to fucking die, violently.
This, but can GTK2 work with Vala? Out of experience, all other bindings suck...
>>54089192
If we got Debian forks to get rid of systemd then I don't see why not.
On the other hand, GTK2 is final and perfect. What do you want maintained about it? It's like grub at this point. Just werks.
It's not like you won't continue receiving GTK2 security updates.
>>54089274
>What do you want maintained about it?
At least wayland support.
X is a piece of shit and its compatibility layer in Wayland should at some point get ripped out and torn to pieces.
>>54088738
Still waiting for gtk3 tabs to not randomly stop responding to mouse events, tbH. This bug has existed since the 3.0's first dev commit.
>>54089515
The problem is that xwayland is worse than x, if you were to remove all of x's pros and double down on all the cons. It's ridiculous.
Not to mention that wayland itself is nowhere near ready for actual use, being fairly buggy itself, and not having any real programs working for it beside gnome and its shit.
>>54088982
>muh wayland
systemd has it by the balls
It would be the best if projects like Mate and xfce, basically everybody still using gtk come together and establish an alternative to gtk
>>54089558
Wayland is already in use, you fucktard.
I'm using gtk2 :^)
>>54089750
Ok pajeet. No need to get mad. Be careful or you'll shit yourself. Think happy thoughts! :)
>>54089750
>already in use
In unstable as fuck systems, yes.
>>54088738
What's the problem here?
>>54089750
>These Wayland people are like people who live in a basement without windows, because even though windows are convenient and nice, think about all the people that could look inside your house!
>The worst thing is that the majority or linux users seem to think Wayland is some perfect program. When wayland gets widely adopted it will mean that you are locked in to some compositor that does everything, like handling shortcuts, taking screenshots, screen magnifications, color-blindness color correction, etc. (keep in mind that half of these things will be half-assed implementations or are not sufficient for someone with very bed vision or some edge case, or are not even in the compositor at all) because wayland is just a protocol and doesn't have an api or some standardized way of doing these things. Also keep in mind that this compositor will most likely be either GNOME or KDE because smaller projects DO NOT have the manpower to to all this.
>It means you can no longer choose your own wm, screenshot program, hotkey daemon, wallpaper setter, you can no longer create scripts that shuffle wallpapers, display custom notifications, have a custom bar, have cool custom scripted popups, have a custom screen magnifier. If you are colorblind you are fucked, if you have very bad vision and need to zoom in, or add more contrast you are fucked.
>You can no longer create script to move windows around with cool tools like x11fs, wmutils or wmctrl, you can no longer use a custom clipboard manager with for example history or multiple clipboards, you can no longer easily record gifs/videos/webms, I can keep going and going. What systemd is doing to "low level customization", wayland will do for "high level customization".
>I moved to Linux because of it's customtibilty, and Wayland will make at least the GUI aspect of Linux even less customizable than windows.
>CSS nodes implemented in a C-based toolkit used to develop desktop programs
So, basically now desktop devs are becoming just another type of web devs. :^)
>>54089941
That makes sense over all, perhaps that explains why nobody seems to care about wayland despite nobody ever saying anything bad about it, and everyone shitting on X11.
>>54088850
Holy fuck you're retarded.
Javascript is not HTML.
>>54089946
gnome is mostly js for a while now
>>54089921
Nothing, OP is a fucking retard.
GTK dropped their custom theme DSL in favor of CSS which is a sane decision.
Then they made nodes accesible via CSS selectors, which is also a sane decision.
The people who scream "muuh web bloat" are clueless idiots who don't know that parsing fucking CSS has 0 overhead.
>>54090098
>parsing
>0 overhead
ask me how I know you're a "web developer"
>>54090116
Parsing CSS has zero overhead. Prove me wrong.
>>54090098
>sane decision
It's always sane decision after sane decision with gnome, amirite? :^)
>>54090134
>I was dropped as a child
anon...
>>54090116
>this comment
Don't ask me how I know you're neo-g cancer.
an yet, A FUCKING DECADE LATER....
If a GNOME/GTK/Redhat employee is reading this, FUCK YOU.
>>54090195
just ask
>>54090200
>... and then he said: I still can't pick my green frog maymays via thumbnails in filechoser
Wayland is just another Red Hat cancer, nobody needs it, nobody wants it.
>>54090321
We do need an x11 replacement, though. Somehow mir is actually looking pretty good given what wayland ended up being.
>>54090335
X11 is ancient and insecure, but at least it's better than wayland. If you are not using selinux your computer is "insecure" anyways, doesn't matter if you use wayland or xorg. Anyways, yeah maybe mir will be ok, even though the development is pretty closed and that it's by canonical.
>>54088738
I have never used gtk toolkit, can someone explain in simple terms what does css that I associate with with web development/page design has to do with gui development of full featured desktop programs?
>>54090165
Who are you quoting?
>>54090200
Not a bug matey. Won't fix.
>>54090372
>X11 is ancient and insecure, but at least it's better than wayland.
That's a huge issue on multiple levels in my opinion.
>If you are not using selinux your computer is "insecure" anyways[sic]
>what is grsecurity/PaX
>>54090386
>backpedaling
m8...
>>54090381
Throughout the GUI development world, the newest fad is to use web development tools to produce UIs even for desktop applications. This includes but is not limited to outright embedding a webkit window in the application to use html, css and javascript for the desktop UI.
>>54090411
Seriously mate, nobody's said anything like that. Who are you quoting?
>>54090432
About fucking time. It's always been a nightmare to define UI with imperative languages.
>>54090432
But thats retarded
>>54090480
And who exactly works in GUI development, anon?
(Hint: it starts with an R).
>>54090432
>>54090480
Yes, using a widely accepted standard over a crappy custom language is absolutely terrible.
Tip: If you have no clue what you're talking about, shut the fuck up.
>>54090563
(Hint: the second letter is an E).
>>54090432
MS did that shit ever since IE was baked in with explorer cirka windows 98.
Not really a new fad, just that all the devs screaming bloody murder at MS for not supporting some none existing standards or some shit, have finally shown their true colours.
>>54090587
>none existing standards[sic]
>everyone else but M$ are supporting it
Do you think there was a magical anti-M$ conspiracy going on or something, retard?
>>54090440
>maximum damage control
wew laddie
>>54090432
Do you mean that program windows are running webkit to display graphical elements? That sounds ineffiecient
>>54091377
Yes and yes. But if it's not good enough for the user, they just have to download more ram and pirate a new CPU.
>>54088738
I honestly remember a "Why can we not have GUI programming in CSS that would be absolute best" thread some time 3 years ago
You guys always change your fucking minds
Post 5 reasons why CSS is worse than what they have now
>>54091443
Is qt also affected by this new development?
>>54091555
It's completely inconsistent with itself to the point that people who know CSS avoid 99% of its features.
This is worth 500 reasons.
>>54091613
No, Qt uses its own UI description language called QML, and that's only an option.
>>54090471
Using CSS definitely makes sense. I ported imperative GUI code to CSS and it made it way cleaner and easier to understand.
>>54091979
Kek
Can OP or ONE PERSON in this thread who's ranting about this please explain to me what GTK's relationship with CSS is and what this article is actually talking about. In pure technical terms: no inane ranting.
I don't think anyone in this thread understands any of this.
>>54093234
GTK will now use CSS for UI design.
>>54093550
>will now
Wrong.
>UI design.
Define "UI design".
What does the conversion to CSS nodes mean?
>>54088953
>>How do we stop GTK from moving towards a consistent and stable interface for themes
>GTK+ 3
>Stable
Mate, in every release somethign breaks.
>>54093697
FUD.
http://abi-laboratory.pro/tracker/timeline/gtk+/
>>54093234
Gnome 3 uses CSS for presentation. They change class names, grouping, etc. every major release.
>>54093726
Hello lennart!
>>54093821
Yes, and the node conversion is the biggest step in having a stable theme interface.
Note that this interface was never guaranteed to be stable, even in the GTK+2 days. GTK+2 themes don't break because GTK+2 is on life support, but it was the same in GTK+2's heyday. Your theme is going to "break" whenever new widgets are added anyway.
>>54093888
Pooterring belongs in the loo.
>>54093888
Right, which wouldn't seem so suspect if there hadn't been so much talk of "branding". I understand why. There's just little incentive to develop for it right now.
kinda related so ill just ask here
whenever i change my theme to numix it changes my wallpaper to a beige matt color and the only way to change my wallpaper back is to change theme.
anyone know a fix to this?
>>54094031
What's suspect about developing a brand?
http://opensource-usability.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-visual-brand-and-user-experience.html
Developing a theme is 99 per cent striving for a different cosmetic, it's not a hugely important part of the toolkit. Certainly developing a theme right now is the easiest it's ever been, especially with GtkInspector.
