>Microsoft recognizes that while developers today might run Windows or Mac (or maybe Ubuntu) on their desktop, inevitably those end up spending much of their time in a Linux shell. Before this new feature of Windows 10, Windows users would need to run a VM (resource hungry), ssh to a cloud instance (requires connectivity), or fiddle around with Cygwin (hacky, slow). With this new feature, a Windows user simple presses the Windows start key, and types "bash" or "ubuntu", and they end up in a rich, Ubuntu shell, with access to all of Ubuntu and most of the entire world of apt, running natively, without virtualization or recompilation."
>"It's well known that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distro in Azure and other clouds. A native Ubuntu shell built directly into the Windows desktop just makes it that much easier to write code using Visual Studio, vim, or emacs, and then push it to a cloud instance with git, scp, or rsync, and vice versa. Obviously, many of those cloud instances will be Azure Ubuntu instances."
>"Here, we're talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows."
>A team of sharp developers at Microsoft has been hard at work adapting some Microsoft research technology to basically perform real time translation of Linux syscalls into Windows OS syscalls. Linux geeks can think of it sort of the inverse of "WINE" -- Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows. Microsoft calls it a "Windows Subsystem for Linux".
This is huge
Nobody could have predicted this turn off events
>>53782889
>>53782953
>>53783078
samefaggotry
>>53783101
>bumping for free
so, this is good or bad and why?
>>53783122
It's a first step of EEE for linux so it's potentially bad for linux.
It's good for Windows users because now you don't need a VM to run linux binaries (but you do have to install Win10 which I definitely won't do for now).
>>53783122
You can have Windows tracking you and stealing your personal data while using Ubuntu
>>53782889
FUCK YOUUUUUU NO ONE GIVES A SHIT NO ONE GIVES A SHIT NO ONE GIVES A SHIT NO ONE GIVES A FUCKING SSSHIITTTT
>>53783140
It isn't even possible to extinguish Ubuntu much less Linux.
How could they possibly do it?
>>53783190
Whoa there anon, you sure got your panties in a bunch
i really REALLY hope its not some nerfed version of ubuntu shell
>>53782889
Is this April Fools?
>>53783195
Step 1 is allegedly done - get lunix binaries working on Windows.
Step 2 would be releasing programs people using Linux subsystem for Windows would be happy to use alongside their usual development stuff (of course I'm not saying it's easy - it's insanely difficult - bout the possibility is still there).
Step 3 would come naturally afterwards.
>>53782912
This.
I imagine this will come has an update.
The future of linux gaming is SteamOS.
MS + Ubuntu (and not another distribution) is just shit
>>53784038
They even made a video for illiterate people like you.
>>53783140
>It's a first step of EEE for linux
What would the next and final steps look like?
>>53783220
Step 3: break syscalls in some obscure way and refuse to fix it.
I'm giving Microsoft too much credit though, they can't even fix their own operating system.
>>53783120
>what is sage
>>53784075
I posted my vision of it in >>53783220.
>>53784080
I don't think they need to break anything, just release closed source programs people will be willing to use.
honestly it feels like Microsoft is going to begin treating linux as a microsoft product
I don't know how to phrase it, it's not in that they're going to own it
but they're going to take it and build their own shit around it so that no one actually uses Linux itself but just utilizes it through the Microsoft Stack
they're going to encapsulate linux in Microsoft products and services, so it's like "Microsoft with Linux" or "Microsoft Linux"
this doesn't properly explain how I feel but it's the best I can do at 4:20 in the morning
and it terrifies me
I don't think it's going to support X or Wayland though, just server/daemon stuff.
>>53783216
This sounds like april fools. The claims I've seen are that the Windows kernel is natively running ELF binaries and processing Linux system calls. The screenshots seem to show an actual Linux kernel though. So it looks like it's in a VM or coLinux which is basically a VM.
>>53784173
It should terrify you, but realistically the damage to Linux will most likely be minimal, due to how big Linux is and how incompetent MS is lately.
>>53783220
That is Linux EEEing Windows. If people start using Linux subsystem and releasing binaries that work on both Linux and Windows, they would just stop producing native Windows versions.
>>53784335
Where is extinguish? Those binaries will just work on Windows.
>>53784173
I kinda got it
think of microsoft as cells and linux as mitochondria
mitochondria used to be their own living organisms, able to live and thrive on their own. However eventually they began to be absorbed by the larger cells, being exploited for their energy-producing properties
what's worse, over time the mitochondria became so dependent on the cells it could no longer survive by itself.
The mitochondria lost everything
the cell gained nothing more than another (rather lucrative) asset
Does the mitochondria and its DNA still exist? Yes, but it's worthless without the cell
I'm afraid this will be the future of Linux, not quite part of Microsoft, yet still entirely dependent on it
fuck I'm tired
>Microsoft recognizes that while developers today might run Windows or Mac (or maybe Ubuntu) on their desktop, inevitably those end up spending much of their time in a Linux shell
smartest thing anyone at microsoft have ever said.
But this is irrelevant because mac is already the perfect choice for such a situation.
>built in zsh
>doesn't need some retarded syscall translation shit
>heaps better software for developers
>in general more pleasant to use
Will filenames still be limited to 260 characters?
If Microsoft does this with a way to escape the linux filesystem into the parent filesystem, they could deprecate all the Win32 file functions and MAX_PATH for regular Windows programs.
Not that I develop with straight Win32 anymore, I'm not a masochist.
>>53784354
Extinguish is people can move their workflow 1:1 to Linux in case Windows starts fucking with them because they are no longer locked to them in any way. Have you guys forgotten about OS/2 Windows compatibility layer?
>>53784371
I like Parasite Eve too
>>53784371
>mitochondria
>linux
What a failure of an analogy.
I hope you realize you're just another walking culture bag of bacterial colonies and viruses.
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Windows, is in fact, GNU/Windows, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Windows. Windows is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Windows, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Windows, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Windows is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Windows is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Windows added, or GNU/Windows. All the so-called Windows distributions are really distributions of GNU/Windows!
About fucking time. I hate having to deal boot or run a VM just to use those tools. Maybe Google deep dream will finally work flawlessly on Windows now
how are linuxfags/winfags havent purge this heresy down?
>>53784398
You're asking the wrong questions:
How are they going to handle file permissions on NTFS?
>>53784471
It's actually Windows/NT + Ubuntu + GNU
The real question is, could you potentially use a different desktop manager?
>>53784494
NTFS has file permissions.
>>53784494
Linux actually has acls, but no one uses them.
If I were a Microsoft developer and a unix process said chmod 0666, I'd translate it to a meaningful equivalent (Everyone -> Allow All). And on the other hand return an approximate alias of the current permissions.
User -> Current User
Group -> Users
Others -> Everyone
>>53784520
They're definitely not being used on Windows.
Freetards yet again absolutely BTFO.
Can't wait till MS EEEs Loonix :^)
>>53784566
Hello fortune teller. God told me not to listen to people like you.
Repeat after me
Extend
Embrace
Extinguish
>>53784595
GNU Extends Windows
Programmers Embraces GNU
All programs can natively work on Linux now, Windows is extinguished
Windows is the new OS/2
>>53784408
You're assuming everyone will stop releasing binaries for windows. It won't happen.
If Microsoft think that a Unix-like userland was the sole reason why people booted into Linux instead of Windows, they are missing the point. Developers would have used cygwin for everything instead of booting up Linux.
The NT kernel
>should not be let anywhere near your firmware
>is not a real-time operating system
>needs third-party driver support
>has no fallback text console
>obfuscates its internals
>fragments files
>spies on you
>>53784539
By you.
>>53784683
They don't aim to fully replace. Just extinguish as much as they can.
>>53784715
They are replacing cygwin at best.
>>53784683
totally unrelated question,
I reently heard during one plenary session Torvalds say that linux supports more hardware than any other OS by far. Do you think when compared to windows this stat only holds when 3rd party drivers are excluded, or is it true in both cases??
>>53784737
Pretty sure he meant runs on more different processor architectures than any other OS.
>>53784628
And hopefully so
That was the idea, seems like i'm not the only one sensing this will end horribly for M$
>>53784721
Maybe that could be enough?
>>53783216
I think it is, the amount of effort it would take for MS to have actually done this is pretty awesome. If it is an April Fool's joke, MS just shot themselves in the foot by getting their userbase excited over nothing.
If it isn't an April Fool's joke, this is probably the best thing to happen to Windows since XP, and I would genuinely start using Win 10 -- regardless of the spyware/botnet faggotry.
>>53784762
>>53784628
Except. You know. The whole no UI thing.
Thanks micro$oft for naming the new Ubuntu "n00buntu"
>>53784773
It's not all that difficult in theory. Implement syscalls, add ability to run ELF executables.
>>53782889
B O T N E T - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
O Microsoft is part of NSA's mass surveillance program "PRISM":
T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
N
E Microsoft informs the NSA about bugs before fixing them:
T https://archive.is/OBGB1
|
| Microsoft openly offeres cloud data to support PRISM:
| https://archive.is/tW6fu
|
| Microsoft has backdoored its disk encryption:
| https://archive.is/2XIvX · https://archive.is/qLRZx
|
| Windows snoops on the users' files, text input, voice input,
| location, contacts, calendar records and web browsing history,
| even after related settings are turned off:
| https://archive.is/Zny36 · https://archive.is/sz1nt
| https://archive.is/g3QdQ · https://archive.is/ko469
|
| A Traffic Analysis of Windows 10:
|
| Keypoints: Windows 10 has a keylogger and uploads all your
| keystrokes every 5 minutes. Everything you type in Edge or
| Cortana is sent to Microsoft, along with any media files it
| finds. When webcam is enabled, 35MB of data goes to Microsoft.
| Even with Cortana disabled/uninstalled, Windows 10 sends all
| microphone audio to Microsoft, when the computer is idle.
| https://archive.is/QnTTA
| https://archive.is/eZKc9
|
| Windows 10 sends desktop screenshots straight to Microsoft:
| https://d2.maxfile.ro/rwspylwbwo.webm
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDeHqiydk4A
|
| Windows 10 scans for illegal/pirated software:
| https://archive.is/vhjwm
| https://archive.is/2jehd
|
| Microsoft proudly presents surveillance statistics:
| https://archive.is/MB0Yy
|
| > Over 82 billion photos viewed.
| > Gamers spent over 4 billion hours playing PC games.
| > 44.5 billion minutes/month spent in Microsoft Edge.
| > Over 2.5 billion questions asked of Cortana since launch.
| > Windows 10 now active on over 200 million devices.
|
v
http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html
Sweet as fuck, now I can stop running VM's and do shit a little more easily and simple.
I tried dual booting linux many times for years but it sucks (keyboard and touchpad not working for 2 years, only USB2 port working and none of my USB3 until 7 months ago) hibernate/suspend broke, fonts shitty even with 200 line fontconfig.xml, poor network drivers even with ath9k, shitty graphics performance and general snappy feel, the list goes on) so this is great news.
>>53784776
Just hack a QtGui and apply to the "full" linux port
Like it wouln't be the first time
>>53784831
Anon please. Please think before you write.
>>53784829
Did you try infinality? Ubuntu font rendering completely demolishes the crap Windows has. Shit no wonder people play more games than read books.
>>53784838
Sorry, i suck at sarcasm and all that jazz
Losing your reaction folder hurts like a bitch
>>53782889
>available on the Windows Store
How much it'll cost?
I'm getting triggered hard by all those mention of a "Linux shell".
>>53782889
>source: ass of anon
>>53784173
Say it with me
Embrace, extend, and extinguish
>>53784930
I think unix programmers are savvy enough not to put themselves into an extinguish position. Then there's the autism of backporting whatever Microsoft may extend the userspace by.
From the slides, it looks like a plain old userspace with ntfs drives on /mnt. I'd love to have a look at /dev and /sys to see if they're already extending it.
>>53784960
Large amount of people using Linux do not actually have allegiance to Linux and will just use whatever works best for them.
>>53785033
I don't care about normalfags. It's ultimately the unix devs who decide what their programs work with.
>>53785049
And a good amount of those unix devs might just switch to the setup that works best for them.
Dismissing people because they don't share your ideals, as if they do not contribute anything, is pretty stupid.
>>53784866
I tried infinality and it just made things worse and I wasted far too much time on it.
I should mention that Ubuntu was the only one with decent fonts whilst Debian, Fedora and Arch I just could not unfuck.
>>53785077
Try something like Manjaro or Antergos. I remember Antergos having some pretty fucking sweet font rendering. Dunno how is it now.
>>53782889
FUUUUUCKK YES
its fucking great, before it require do run vm in headlessmode + some tricky shit to have this shell on windows cmd.
Now you can use FILE out of box on windows, now you can just simple mount iso from bash on windows.
its fucking great and people were making fun of this indian CEO
>>53785063
>And a good amount of those unix devs might just switch to the setup that works best for them.
Those Unix devs are already running Linux or Mac OSX because it "works best for them". And a fair portion of them run a Windows VM for whatever reason.
>Dismissing people because they don't share your ideals, as if they do not contribute anything, is pretty stupid.
Yes, but normalfags aka Joe Dumb User aren't in the position to dictate to the developer in what direction they take their program. Neither is Microsoft. Developers will not be in an extinguish position unless they're stupid enough to put themselves in that position.
Yes it looks exactly the same conceptually except ~/.wine is the new /mnt/c. But it is still running a stripped down Linux environment without all the goodies that Linux kernel gives you.
If that means that I don't have to port software to Windows anymore this is a good development.
Does this mean I can run wine inside windows inside linux inside windows?
>>53785175
Windows is the new Mac OS X.
Smells like Unix but the userland is different.
You guys are all falling for this april fools gag.
And we will still have the same shit file manager
And we still will have the same shit fonts
And we still will have the same shit ultrawhite desktop
Follow-up question
Now that Linux is Win10's BFF:
EXT2/3/4-SUPPORT FUCKING WHEN!?
>>53785210
Never, cause that would actually be good.
>>53785180
I'm pretty sure wine has some code running in kernel which means, no, you can't.
>>53785210
NEVER EVER EVER
>>53785210
It's in the kernel, not in userland, so, not in foreseeable future.
>>53785200
WE WUZ KINGS
Red Hat shill on full damage control
>>53785239
Hey I detest niggers the most, probably more than you, I just like my eyesight
Too much plain black text on plain white background is dumb and honestly it seems Microsoft lost their Photoshop CS2 license somewhere and had to use paint for this shit I swear to god
>>53785262
According to leaks, they used powerpoint for designing UI.
>>53785277
>>53785277
Whole post for anyone interested
>>53785180
That needs emulating graphics drivers at linux kernel. It's unlikely they will support graphics ABIs at the kernel level. Still X server can be emulated by another windows native program like Xming and that can communicate with sockets
>>53785262
It seems Microsoft never learned why a fair portion of Win3.1 programs linked ctl3dv2.dll to get away from the ugly white-on-black motif.
>>53785296
>devs are bugtesters for their own code (lol)
>fanboys as QA (LOL)
disaster in the making.
![Only_the_dead_can_know_peace_from_this_evil[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WtospEM.jpg "Only_the_dead_can_know_peace_from_this_evil[1].jpg")
>>53785296
>the last greentext-story
>year of linux happens because of MS
Ganoox BTFO
>>53785296
I want the source code for 10 to be leaked every fucking where
It will be a mess but in a few years someone will release a better version than anything MS has done for decades
![dNVvntX[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/e5uYJsl.gif "dNVvntX[1].gif")
>>53784471
> Windows is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
Free? Who are you trying to bullshit here.
> Windows is the kernel
NT IS THE KERNEL.
Put more effort to your copypasta.
>>53784408
The problem there is, outside MEPIS - linux is even worse than Windows for compatibility.
Shit changes far too rapidly.
>>53782889
Microsoft will buy Ubuntu, you will see.
>>53785551
>53785551
No they won't, because it would be illegal to do so.
More to the point, it would, again, hold back a FOSS version of windows - reactos - as they would have to do another complete code audit to ensure none of their code was stolen windows code, which would then, again, mean that more than half of the development team would be forever barred from contributing (as the only way to do that audit is to compare with the leaked source code, after viewing which you become a liability to the team)
It would really be in Microsoft's best interests to actually 'leak' some of the Windows source code again.
Why not use OSX? It's not like you need an amazing computer to install it. Fuck I have an average gaymen PC and I didn't have many problems.
>>53784915
>source: ass of anon
NJET!
https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/C906?ocid=player
>>53785752
But who in the name of fuck uses reactos?
>>53785788
are you actively trying to be a complete moron?
>>53785767
Because it's the worst of all worlds.
>no PCI-e passthrough for windows games
>slowest openGL ever
>old as fuck opengl, so no native games
>very slow wine port
>only decent VM program is now dead
>slower than linux for *nix software
>shit filesystem
>shit security
At least the audio system is nice and it's pretty I guess.
>>53785767
>Why not use OSX?
Because M$ is willing to cooperate, Apple is not.
>>53784173
The kernel is still there. Windows still costs money while Linux is free. Businesses will use Linux for servers regardless of what happens because Red Hat.
You have a choice.
>>53782889
>A native Ubuntu shell built directly into the Windows
Just imagine the mess the code would become.
>>53784173
Why do you think some of us hate systemd with a passion?
It's the same shit, just RedHat doing it.
Now Ian is dead, everything is systemd, suse already sold out, canonical is selling out and redhat is probably worse than SCO was - but wait SCO is fucking back from the dead too.
See you on plan9.
>>53785783
Minute?
Fuck windows store. Knowing microsoft, it's probably watered down and shitty.
>>53785850
Spaghetti monster code would be putting it mildly.
>>53785794
I don't know about slow, I find that I was able to get a better framerate on Chivalry in OSX for instance than Xubuntu 15.10. If I fire up Unigine Heaven (which I'm sure it's not the best way to measure things up, but still sees a difference) at the same settings, same scenes which run at barely 11FPS on linux run at around 20 in OSX.
Also that the whole "DE" if you would from OSX runs completely fine, there's no tearing on applications with all its effects, bells and whistles, while no linux DE with animations works well on my end.
I mean this is anecdotal as fuck for sure but I haven't found a way of fixing tearing on chromium for instance, other than using proprietary drivers which in turn fuck performance up a good notch.
Regarding wine I had the same exact issues on both, similar framerates from benchmarks.
Regarding VM, you're completely right. No PCI-e passthrough either but it still requires you to use integrated graphics as your main thing, which I would use if they supported 2560x1080 for instance.
And regarding the filesystem a lot of information is based on this and that article as well. If you see Torvalds's rant you'll read that most of his complaints are about case insensitivity. Security might be an issue, I have yet to see it compromised.
Don't get me wrong, I'd switch to linux in a heartbeat if I didn't have to get stuck with XFCE and having to use a virtual machine for InDesign because WINE doesn't like it much. But for now this works and it has a little few native pieces of software I like that I cannot get on linux at all.
>>53785852
>plan9
channel9.msdn.com
31/3/2016
The day Winshit became Just Another Distro(tm) on Distrowatch
Microsoft is dead. Dead. Over.
>>53785077
fedora just requires you to install some package from rpmfusion and it works just fine.
>>53785296
Context for this? It's literally sanjeep in the loo tier
>>53786125
Holy shit, that bald guy must have the worst posture in the world. What the hell is wrong with his neck?
>>53784173
EEE
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish
This is an age old Microsoft tactic.
/g/ BTFO
