What makes a person a shitty programmer?
they're self-taught
Let's be honest here. Posting on 4chan makes us all shitty programmers
they're lazy and stupid
They think about tools and languages more than computation.
>>53698484
/thread
Melanin.
self-taught usually
>>53698472
They post on g
>>53698511
I'm not a no life piece of shit good for nothing programmer so I'll ask what the fuck this means because I'd like to understand a little
what does thinking about computation mean?
They're me
They like anime
>>53698571
making your own left-pad
>>53698484
Most CS grads I have dealt with are horrible programmers who know nothing about industry. They don't know what version control is, how to do releases, etc.
They learned how to program from guys who were so shitty at programming they got a PhD in CS and taught.
Self taught people are motivated to learn, and programming is a never ending learning cycle.
Shitty programmers treat their profession like a trade skill - something that doesn't ever change.
>>53698668
>taking the bait
dumbfuck
>>53698511
You sound like the sorta person who never has dealt with a customer or time line.
That said, nothing is worse than the guy who wants to write the program in the new hip language everyone on /g/ is talkin about that is still in version 0.0.1
>>53698571
Exactly, since you aren't a programmer you understand. Problems are solved with simple pen and paper and some basic math usually. Programming is just translating it into computation.
>>53698707
I'm autistic you insensitive fuck.
>>53698701
what's wrong with php?
>>53698571
>what does thinking about computation mean?
you know like thinking about computers... Like the monitor and stuff yeah
>>53698725
me too
>>53698734
What isn't?
>>53698779
mutable variables
>>53698779
>"whats wrong with x language?"
"What isnt"
>pic related
>>53698472
They learnt with java.
>>53698834
pic describes 95% of php programmers :D
>>53698881
>has yet to say whats wrong with php
>>53699044
php is bad because I say so now leave me alone gosh
They use and recommend scripting languages for programming.
>>53699193
PYTHON IS A VERY CAPABLE LANGUAGE
>>53698725
>Dear diary: today I saw an autist call someone else insensitive
They use words like beautiful and eloquent to describe code. Come the fuck on you trophy society faggot no one thinks your code is like a pair of great tits.
They cant prove correctness in their code.
>>53698484
every grad student ever
>>53699570
>write a program
>gives desired result
>neckbeard goes autismal because the code is not correct and he can shave off 0.3us in runtime by working on it for 3 more weeks
>>53699650
add in "equating performance and correctness"
>>53699294
Yes but not for making standalone programs. There is no way you can justify 5 seconds just to go through every pixel on the screen twice.
>>53698881
You're not wrong
>$X==$Y
>$Y==$Z
>$Z!=$X
Maybe I don't know what I'm doing but neither does PHP so
>>53699294
Can python make a sprx menu for a ps3?
>no
>>53699728
Eh, depends on your application. We do atmospheric physics here, analysis of geospatial data and such. 99% of what we do is read data into numpy arrays and then map them or run various statistics, call plotting routines. Using anything else than python (or IDL, Matlab, etc.), such as C/C++, would be a waste of time.
Whether you call it a script or a program is merely semantics in my eyes, there's good reasons to code something like this down in Python instead of Fortran77 (yes - some actually still do that).
>>53699328
my code is a pair of beautiful and eloquent breasts
Learning Haskell
>repost.tiff
>>53698472
Being OP
>>53699328
If you've never seen beautiful code, you might work with shitty people.
>>53699812
>Maybe I don't know what I'm doing but neither does PHP so
Am considering getting this on my tombstone.
>>53699885
This too.
>>53699977
If you've never seen beautiful code, you've never seen Lisp.
>>53699044
>Undertale
kys
everything. all programers are shit, lol
you do realise robots will be taking over for u in the next years or so`?
>>53698484
hah my condolences
the self-taught people always wipe the floor with the phds if they are serious about what they are doing
therefore sorry for only having met the retards
>>53700354
if you actually think that youre wrong.
They're me.
believing that because you can declare variables, they are automatically protected from everything because 'why would the computer let you do something wrong' type thinking
believing grammar exists
believing human communication is possible
learning C++ in general
posting about computer """ science """
>>53700508
>the self-taught people always wipe the floor with the phds if they are serious about what they are doing
please give me an example
>>53698472
how does one learn to write a better quality code? I know the code I write is shitty, I just can't design it better, despite reading books about design patterns and OO design. I just can't apply what I read in practice and can only think in terms of methods, not objects
>>53700872
personal experience my anon
I can't talk about anything more obviously
>>53700850
>learning C++ in general
Someone please explain this.
>>53701008
CS undergrad babies love to have language/text-editor wars
>>53700872
Torvalds, Carmack, Sawyer, Terry Davis, Sweeney, take your pick from any demoscene coder.
Some of them may have done some CS-ish degree, but all of them already knew how to program by the time they entered university because they started when they were around 10-12 years old.
>>53699193
>disapproves of scripting languages
>uses site that runs on javascript
if they browse /g/ and like chinese cartoons
>>53699812
You made me smirk a little bit.
>>53700850
You are very hip and cool, and things you say are controvesal!
What makes a shitty programmer? Studying only at the university, having the professor as sole source of knowledge.
Every good programmer I know researches by himself, without depending on someone to tell him what to do.
Unfortunately, we live in a world where 90% of undergrads are shitty programmers condemned to stay in the garbage.
>>53698472
people who always think they are right because they read it on the internet
They learn syntax instead of data structures and algorithms.
>>53701144
yes but imagine if they were taught from when they were around 10-12. that would be the true comparison. we're not comparing child prodigies to people who started in university or even later in life.
>>53699193
They don't use the right tool for the job
>>53700354
robots will never actually program a whole system, just abstract away the low-level components, it's already happening called, they are called APIs and frameworks. One we move toward verbal programming (basically voice recognition programming) even the lowest common denominator can program because it's so high level.
>>53703811
But they were taught. By themselves. Both some public school course or jumping to the high school or university level would have the problem that it would not teach them technologies as needed for real programs and it will not teach them at their exact correct pace. This is only viable with programming.
>>53698484
This, honestly.
I am a shitty programmer myself.
>>53703924
This is just as invalid as if I were to say that I'm a good programmer so it's true.
>>53698472
Anyone who went into a programming related environment with no prior knowledge. If you weren't already clacking the keys away before college, stay away.
>>53698472
>What makes a person a shitty programmer?
• lack of formal education
• lack of vocational experience
That's all it boils down too, all you khan academy videos and github hobby projects don't mean shit.
>case in point: homebrew guy couldn't invert a binary tree and thus was rejected for an entry level job at Google
>>53698472
They copy paste code from stack overflow
That's a surefire way to tell someone doesn't understand what they're doing.
>>53699193
>dynamic scripting languages are always a bad choice
Found the shitty programmer
>>53698668
>guys who were so shitty at programming they got a PhD in CS
spotted the dropout
>>53703956
You do realize that there's more than khan academy and hobby projects to self learning, right?
Using books, I designed my own computer all the way down from architecture and all the way up to OS, and through open source I contributed patches to my shell.
I could just as easily say unflattering things about the lowest points of programming education, but that doesn't mean it's representative of it as a whole.
Also, I could just as easily say that I can invert a binary tree and I'm self taught. Neither example makes our cases.
they're on 4chan
2bh
Not OP but what's the difference between a code monkey and a "real programmer"?
Let's say I'm a web dev frameworks monkey and I want to make the jump, what do I have to learn?
>>53704016
the ability to navigate your own path is one of the main factors
so you're disqualified already honestly, not even just trying to be snarky either
>>53704016
Honestly, modern web application architectures and frameworks are pretty sophisticated. They are meant to mimic desktop applications these days, after all. If you've been keeping up with technologies, you could probably make contributions anywhere.
>>53704016
Monkeys go to school to learn. Real programmers knew beforehand and could apply themselves formally.
>>53704016
Code monkeys write code, programmers solve problems
>>53703711
/thread
>>53704016
Math
>>53698701
Pretty Hilarious, Pham
>>53704016
in my opinion, understanding how the language works. which really means understanding how the computer works from the hardware up.
this is something i wonder if a lot of self-taught programmers get, because it's the bulk of the cs major at my school.
i'm really less interested in programming as a skill than understanding how everything works.
data structures and algorithms are of course also important, but understanding them is never the hardest part.
>>53698668
Bootcampfag detected.
How's your dead-end JavaScript CRUD job going?
>>53703937
I'll attempt to quantify it a bit.
I believe that primarily a lack of programming theory results in shitty programmers.
Self learners often (in my opinion) learn with a goal in mind. They want to make some particular app or program or game for their own benefit and once it is done they move along to the next project, picking up theory as they go.
They are more likely to form bad habits or miss best practice but on the other hand they may learn a wider range of skills than those who just take classes as they come across problems specific to the project they are working on.
Those who are taught may have the opposite issues, good knowledge of theory but because they don't have much interest in programming as a hobby their range of programming skills are limited to just what they have to do to pass the classes, and then they have no skills to set them apart from everyone else in the class when applying for jobs.
Of the two groups I would say that those who have had formal instruction have the advantage.
adhd
;_;
>>53703924
>This, honestly.
>I am a shitty programmer myself.
Is anything stopping you from getting better?
>>53703956
Funny because when it comes to tech jobs they are less likely than any other field to have a hard degree/cert requirement.
>>53698472
Mental debilitation: I'm unable to memorize things. Or at least I suck at it.
>>53704647
Laziness.
I like to code but I can't be bothered reading books to improve my theory.
>>53698484
Yes and no
>>53698472
One that doesn't understand formal logic.
Sticks to one programming language despite the ever changing demands and new languages/frameworks/libraries.
General stuff like not open to criticism and doesn't work with a team.
>>53698668
>guys who were so shitty at programming they got a PhD in CS
>>53704026
>not trying to be snarky
but you said one thing so im ruling you out
>>53704828
Not him, but I'm a PhD student in CS and I wouldn't describe myself (or anyone in my cohort) as a top tier programmer. We're all competent, but it's mostly coincidental.
You have to understand that PhD programs accept students that look like they'll do good research, get papers published, etc...
Almost none of that hinges on you shipping code very rapidly. It's more about thinking critically about something, coming up with some way to operationalize that thought, testing, etc...
I wouldn't say that CS PhD students are legitimately "so shitty" that you would describe them the way >>53698668 would, but they/we are definitely middle of the pack. Very few/no superstars.
