What are your thoughts on Telegram messenger?
It seems perfectly good to me. I don't know why you don't talk about it often.
It's fucking great. Best messenger IMO.
>>53595164
I use it, it's fantastic.
Seems to be quite popular with ISIS though, if the news is correct.
>>53595164
I don't like the fact that the server-side code is proprietary, but it's better than the alternatives.
>>53595164
I prefer signal.
>>53595164
I prefer signal but use both depending on the person I want to talk to.
>>53595164
last time i checked they request me a phone number
>no thanks
Telegram vs Signal vs Wire vs Tox?
>not using libreSignal
>>53596128
zap zap
>>53596128
vs Discord vs Jitsi vs IRC vs others
>not using whatsapp like anyone with a healthy social life
>>53596128
> telegram require phone number
> tox doesn't remember groups and doesn't manage your history properly
> irc is centralized it's pretty much text only
> signal doesn't have a (real) desktop client
> discord is gaming garbage
>>53596128
>>53596235
Tox is theoretically best in core design but unprofessional as fuck and broken
Signal is best compromise
Telegram is made by a company you just can't trust
wtf is wire?
Discord isn't a privacy tool in any way, broken and privacy nightmare by design
Jitsi is a piece of shit and pain in the ass to set up
IRC isn't a privacy tool it's made for public discussion
why the fuck is this hard to make a proper chat software?
>>53596366
Those who have the drive to build something often lack the knowledge to do it, likewise those with the knowledge to build something lack the drive to work on it.
>>53596366
>take tox basecode
>finish it and make it work
>???
>proper chat software was achieved!
>>53596313
get out normie
>>>/out/
It's pretty great, but the security and privacy is just too god fucking awful to ignore
>>53596179
>https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.libresignal
>Application not found
>>53596595
It's on a different repository, make your research.
>>53596313
>using chat software made for 3rd-world shitters
ok lol
>>53596008
Same
>>53596509
Cry harder, loser
>>53595164
>all the people who are saying telegrams are shit
?????
i use it all the time
>>53596654
>using chat software made for literal PISS 3RD WORLD POOR PEOPLE
ok
>>53595164
shit encryption, no thanks.
>>53596616
So not only it's not on the play store, but it's not even available on a secondary marketplace unless doing research and manual tweaking? No wonder no one in the real world will ever use it
>>53596720
Libresignal is a fork. There is signal on the marketplace for normies.
You can also send a link by sms to get friend to use it, the non-forked signad is easy as fuck to set up.
>>53596128
>>53596325
>>53596683
i would say wire, they atleast finished what telegram tried to do with proper encryption
added many features lately but not completely open source soo
I write sms
>>53596313
Whatsapp is just a shitty telegram, why would I use that?
> not IRC
dropped
I use kik
>>53596830
>kik
>kek
>not viber
>>53595164
Tox seems to be really good, but its hard to get people set up. I mostly use Bleep by BitTorrent. Direct P2P, no servers involved.
Just why don't you use whatsapp if everyone uses it? If you want to use something else, use signal for sms and chatting.
Just read the circlejerk in play store
>>53596938
>Bleep by BitTorrent
did you give ass yet?
>>53596907
I kek in your mom every night
So what do these meme apps have? Unless it's open source very private then its useless to switch from kik
How do you convince people around you to even switch to Telegram or Signal?
I live in Mexico, everyone uses Whatsapp here.
>>53596313
NORMALFAGS GET THW FUCL OUT
AAAAAAAAAH
>>53596938
>Tox seems to be really good
no proper history
don't preserve chat groups
shitty clients
no offline messages
and you call it really good?
>>53597519
Here in America everyone just texts so all I have to do is ask them if they will download something to msg that is a lot better than texts. Now all my friends use telegram. Whatsapp doesn't eve have a desktop client and it charges you which for me and a lot of my friends is an absolute dealbreaker, I don't why anyone would bother with it.
>>53596008
Telegram is pretty good, but I would trust Signal more than it as far as security.
Telegram is more mainstream, however Signal is better as the client can handle my SMS / MMS and auto-switch to it's own online message protocol if the other person has Signal. Means less applications on phone, which is generally good.
>>53596804
because everybody uses it
>>53597644
The idea behind it is good, quick secure disposable chats.
>>53598408
>his friends use whatsapp
Get better friends.
What happened to Hemlis? The Chat app by that one guy from piratebay.
>>53598555
Literally everyone uses WhatsApp.
>>53596720
F-Droid is a repository MODEL, not just one central repository; just like how it works in literally every other relevant Linux distro.
>>53597644
>no offline messages
Offline messages requires a centralised server model to cache the messages. Do you even understand what the point of Tox is?
>2016
>not using ChatSecure
It's like you WANT to be spied on!
Signal is better but it's a bit harder to get Normies onto it. Telegram is more like the sort of thing they're used to.
Telegram is OK, but I wish they revamped their secret chat model to work with multiple devices, and implemented it in the desktop client. And released the server code.
Signal need to release the RedPhone server code too.
All of the above need to implement Server Federation, so that we're not dependent on the set of centrally run servers to use the service, and that servers run by others can still provide for the same "network".
>>53599158
ChatSecure works awfully on mobile internet connections, because it's XMPP+OTR. I don't have the link but someone studied this a year or two ago and showed why.
>>53595164
I really wish this thread would stop popping up.
The simple answer is Telegram is only as good as your purpose for using it.
Are you using it for Encryption? YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! People with Math degrees aren't cryptologists. Rule #1 of Crypto is NEVER ROLE YOUR OWN CRYPTO. Because 9/10 times you're going to FUCK IT UP, unless you're a CRYPTOLOGIST!
Are you using it because you're a fur-fag drama whore who just wants to waste money on art comissions of your stupid sparkledog in sticker form? Then by all means, Telegram is just for you!
>>53599023
Stfu, no they dont.
>>53596366
>why the fuck is this hard to make a proper chat software?
Because it doesn't make money.
Just text you nerds.
>>53596313
>using Facebook messenger
Ehhh, use signal
>>53597718
>Means less applications on phone, which is generally good.
also makes it easier to convince others to use because it a) looks good and b) doesn't require "another messenger" which gets exhausting with how many different ones people use
>Use telegram
>Its filled with filthy Iranian and slavs
Fuck no.
>>53599176
Signal is the easiest thing for normies, I found. I mean, it falls back onto fucking SMS if you don't have Signal, for instance. It is the same "Blue text means both people have signal, green text means one of you doesnt" thing that iTards are used to on iMessage etc... Its a perfect replacement for a generic SMS client any normie can use.
>>53601056
This. You don't even need a separate application on Android; it replaces your text messaging app. You don't even have to think about it.
You geberally have to strike a balance between usability and security, it's impressive how Signal is so relatively usable AND secure.
Libresignal is great but telegram has lots of features that are useful. I use both and I am waiting for ring to be stable.
Is Telegram literally just WhatsApp or are there public groups with other users?
>>53601696
Telegram has better groups and stickers. Also better file sharing.
>>53600781
texting isn't free
Hike wins hands down
>>53595164
It's blocked where I live. Fortunately whatsapp is now E2E even on iOS and group chats.
Telegram is basically the "least crappy" of the "normal" messengers. Yes, it has end to end encryption but ONLY on secret chats. It has custom encryption (not a good idea), and runs off a server network (non-federated, all owned by the Telegram devs etc). Its not FOSS, but it does have some open APIs if I recall; unsure if any clients are FOSS. Its basically a text-based system I think, doesn't have voice/video involved etc, but it has fair bit of features for text alone.
I see a lot of alternatives, depending on exactly what you want to do.
I like threema, but only my sister uses it.
>>53595164
>group chats arent even private
>that obnoxious layout
>have to give it your number
XMPP w OTR is better
>>53601906
What shit hole do you live in
>>53602021
see >>53599699
The end-to-end encryption should be considered flawed and broken, because the idiots who made Telegram used their own Crypto algorithms, and they are only 'math' nerds.
>requires your phone number to make an account
Into the trash it goes
>>53596509
>unironically using term normie
>>53599142
>Offline messages requires a centralised server model to cache the messages.
No. There are others methods around, with which it is possible to "store a message in the web".
They are "so nice" and "easy to handle" but it's possible. For example you could share an encrypted message with others, so they will send you message, while you're offline to another person. Or you could distribute it, something like a DHT.
>>53601906
>Fortunately whatsapp is now E2E even on iOS and group chats.
Citation needed.
All I know the "current" status is that whatsapp uses E2E if you both have a specific version of android.
But if you use an old whatsapp-client or an old android version or if your friend has an ios, then there is now encryption involved. I think, even groupchats aren't encrypted.
It's good.
My only problem with it are lackluster groups. No proper admin functions or access right, no motd or any other way to pin information.
But I think they're actually working in that direction.
>tfw still nothing as good as XMPP conferences
I dislike the secret chat features usability. It's also confusing for normies
>"Secret" chat key management is crap
If the other person has multiple devices online you don't know which it starts a "secret chat" with. Also no way to back up or move the keys.
>Group chats can't be "secret"
>>53599110
Why not have it on the play store though? Yes, botnet and all, but it's just one more way to reach people that barely know how to click install on the original marketplace. Being that this kind of apps thrive on userbase it's fucking stupid not to release it on the play store and the default f-droid repo.
No really, try to imagine telling a normie how to install it. Yes, that includes the sms link method.
>>53602654
>My only problem with it are lackluster groups. No proper admin functions or access right, no motd or any other way to pin information.
Didn't the last version implement that?
>>53602770
Libresignal exists entirely to be independent from gapps, if you use the play store and have no problems with it just use signal.
>>53602626
https://github.com/mgp25/Chat-API/wiki/WhatsApp-incoming-updates#31-august-2015
>>53602294
Oman
>>53602956
Damn. Now I feel stupid, sorry anon. I thought you meant signal.
>>53596008
Currently, Signal requires Google Play services. I'm sticking with Telegram, or this new thing, Wire.
>>53603386
Libresignal doesn't use gplay
can someone explain me what's the problem of jitsi and the others xmpp + otr clients?
i honestly wouldn't lose my time convincing someone to try it out with me to find out it's shit.
>>53603720
Jitsi is great. In fact pretty much everything recommended on prism-break is great.
>>53603392
Which has an unacceptable impact on battery.
Also Moxie is a Google cuck.
>>53603806
hardly believable, everything have it's problem
>>53596325
Signal's GPS dependency kills its privacy benefits. Telegram runs well without, so that's probably the best compromise.
>>53595164
It's a Russian back-doored botnet.
Fuck off, Durov.
>>53603891
>libresignal
>moxie
u w0t m8?
>>53603932
>signal
Is made by Moxie.
>libresignal
Has a bad enough impact on battery life to not make it a viable alternative.
i am using telegram, but the server source is not free. i am waiting for wire to be on f-droid.
>>53603960
>>Has a bad enough impact on battery life to not make it a viable alternative.
not noticeable 4 me
>>53603916
GPS dependency? Can you please elaborate?
>>53596128
Which one doesn't require phone number?
>>53603986
You need to have Google Play Services on your phone to use the official version, which is largely botnet, basically you don't have that installed if you care about your privacy, ironically.
Also all -encrypted- traffic is routed through Google Cloud Messaging.
>>53604037
but they explain it quite well in their FAQ. GCM is not that bad if you are just using it to notify the mobile application that it should do something.
>>53604037
>>53604076
links
http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/213190817-Why-do-I-need-Google-Play-installed-to-use-Signal-
http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/215843598-Why-GCM-Does-Google-see-my-messages-
>>53604037
kek
>traffic is routed through google cloud messaging
why lol
>>53595164
> not using Threema
>>53603806
bump
>>53604169
there is absolutely no reason to trust them, ever.
>>53604112
Ok, right. At least Telegram has managed to create scaling push messaging without GCM.
Also, what does that even matter? When having GPS installed you just don't have privacy. It's a huge binary responsible for communicating with Google and tracks your location constantly in different ways etc. etc.
>>53604182
>there is absolutely no reason not to trust them, ever.
>>53604182
https://threema.ch/validation/
>>53604190
>>53604196
If they have nothing to hide from it's users, why does it have to be proprietary? there is no reason to trust them.
>>53604218
From their FAQ:
"Making the app's code open to the public is out of question for Threema. By disclosing the source code, Threema would divulge its asset. Anyone in possession of the source code could misuse it to develop software clones. A public source code doesn't equal better security. It is also very difficult to prove that published source code actually corresponds to 100% with a store release."
https://threema.ch/en/faq
Here's EFF's score on secure messaging.
What about wickr?
>>53596325
>Jitsi is a piece of shit and pain in the ass to set up
elaborate
>>53599699
Correct. It's really good for the furry vore rooms I'm in.
>>53604249
>It is also very difficult to prove that published source code actually corresponds to 100% with a store release."
>what are reproducible builds
>A public source code doesn't equal better security.
this is right but at least this way it can be audited and they could prove that it it secure.
>>53604318
This is true.
On the other hand, it was recently audited by a 3rd party:
https://threema.ch/press-files/2_documentation/external_audit_security_statement.pdf
>>53603720
bump for the interest
>>53604334
if they had reproducible builds and would provide the source code used for the audition you could actually trust them.
>>53604373
well you're always free not to use them. personally, I like having multiple competing options, it makes everything better.
So far, giving them the benefit of the doubt, they don't seem to have done anything wrong in my point of view.
>>53604399
if they used a free license, i would give them the benefit of the doubt. but they don't.
>>53604399
>playing dice with encryption security
Why even use it if you dont know how its being secured?
An encrypted software is as strong as its weakest component.
http://strawpoll.me/7142797
>>53596313
>Using anything owned by facebook
>Not knowing how to meet people IRL
>>53596486
Then why isn't this done?
Every goddamn programmer worth his salt in this thread should start on this now. Why don't you do this guys?
>>53604183
Yes. But there is also GcmCore as an alternative, that you can use just for GCM.
>>53604585
Because nobody here actually knows shit about programming
>>53604530
eat shit and die
>>53604263
Thanks for sharing.
>>53595164
Cuck
>>53597674
It's free now.
What are some good telegram groups?
>>53606063
Jesus I just asked that right now on Telegram to others.
Why would you want to join a telegram group? It's not anonymous, you have your name and photo plastered for anyone to see.
>>53606678
Who said you should use real pictures or a real name?
Anybody on Wire?
Want to talk?
>>53607012
The social context did. Everyone uses/should use their real name/photo on telegram/whatsapp because otherwise we go back to the MSN era where everyone liked being an edgelord and had the stupidest fucking names ever that were impossible to remember and cringy as all fuck.
That said, going on a public chat with random people is just asking for trouble if you are not anonymous.
>>53607280
Most people in telegram groups use pseudonyms like back in the days.
>>53596830
It's the best. Unbloated, works fine, no in-app purchases, no ads. It sometimes crashes to the desktop, but it's not really a big deal.
>>53607359
In telegram groups, yes. As far as I'm aware there is no way to use a pseudonym in a group or set and custom avatar, so you're stuck with the name and photo that you use with your normie friends, which is usually way too close to your real identity to share with random telegram people.
>>53604249
>By disclosing the source code, Threema would divulge its asset. Anyone in possession of the source code could misuse it to develop software clones.
Then download binaries from official repos and do a hash check.
>A public source code doesn't equal better security.
Better than proprietary? Yes it does. Encryption algorithms have been open since the day they were created, has anyone cracked AES?
>It is also very difficult to prove that published source code actually corresponds to 100% with a store release."
Again, compile and compare with the expected hash. Have these people never heard of hashing?
>>53595164
It is great, I like inline bots. There is desktop and web client. Wish it was actually secure though. I might opt for Signal if i can get my friends to move.
>>53596235
discord is shit
>>53596179
>wont work without GAPPS regardles
fuck off moxie you twat
>>53599110
no wonder linux will never take off
>>53608004
It's a good magazine.
>>53609419
Here's your (You)
I want to quit FB but I need to find an easy "private" IM that's both Android and in-browser to speak to some normies.
Does this actually exist?
>>53610353
if its with normies it needs to have good iOS support too.
>>53610377
Huh yeah actually. But I'll force Iphonefags to communicate in browser. That's why I need an IM app that works in browsers.
>>53599110
who the fuck actually adds external repos?
if your app is so shit F-Droid maintainers won't build and push it, it's fucking shit.
>>53610353
Well Telegram seems to fit this very well. I'm coming from Mac OS X + Android. That's my 2c.
>>53610578
Oh, I didn't noticed it actually had a web app too. Thanks a lot.
So, I'm actually a noob in privacy and security, how does the log work, do they just disappear after a conversation? Can anyone, trace them?
>>53610657
You have to select 'secret chat' for your ordinary one-on-one convos to be encrypted. Normally, they aren't. And group discussions aren't encrypted.
As I understand, it's a damn sight better than WhatsApp, Kik, Facebook Messenger.
But not as privacy-conscious as XMPP, Mumble, Tox, or IRC. But it's very user-friendly.
>all these "muh privacy, muh crypto"
Drug dealers and cp sellers use it in my country and works fine.
Even ISIS chat there.
>>53595164
It's a great messenger app, lightweight and clean looking, but they shouldn't advertise it as "encrypted" until they allow full third party audits on their server process
>>53611128
What country - and how would you know?
>>53611205
hes all of the above
>>53596313
because people on this thread are nerds,they argue about the best messaging app but they have nobody to even text
>>53611890
we are not arguing about the best, we are arguing about how much garbage they all are
>>53595164
Because I'm not a hacker.
>>53603386
>>53603392
You can also use Libresignal "with GCM" without GApps by using microG, a Free Software replacement for GApps. Doesn't even need a google account.
>>53604037
>Also all -encrypted- traffic is routed through Google Cloud Messaging.
GCM is only used for Push Notifications, which triggers requesting the actual message data from the Signal Server, and triggers the Calls.
>>53603916
>>53604037
See microG.
>>53609162
>not using microG
>>53616690
Awesome! I didn't know there was a GPL fork of Signal. Now, all I have to do is figure out how to install microG.
Garbage privacy and encryption
>>53596008
Only app mentioned that can be trusted. Open source industry standard end to end encryption.
This desu
End of story.
