Is windows 10 a botnet? I do love the speed and resource management but spying is unethical, more so when it happens for business.
>>53323109
Shen you clean install it and click on the advanced options, it clearly states that it will send keyloggings, browser data, your files, speech, your contacts, your calendars,… to microsoft.
>>53323109
The spying happens on private users mostly, Enterprise can disable pretty much everything. (Not super sure if it's the case about basic telemetry, but it doesn't send anything relevant)
Besides, if you handle such sensitive data, your shit shouldn't be online.
So basically, yes it's a botnet but can be regulated down to reasonable levels.
>>53323140
It also lets you turn it off.
>>53323142
>but can be regulated down to reasonable levels.
there is no reasonable amount of spying except "none"
>>53323148
You can turn some things off, but it flat out doesn't let you turn them off completely. It still makes a bunch of connections to MS even if you set every privacy option you can.
Since it's kinda on topic ... is there any way to get decent error messages?
I get "Host process for windows tasks has stopped working" every few hours, everything runs perfectly fine but it's annoying and I'd like to fix it; there is no detailed information or anything, only the option to close the message.
>>53323185
that is my problem, you cannot decide fully on what data you allow to be collected, and the forced updates don't help either
>>53323185
>there is no reasonable amount of spying except "none"
Given how telemetry doesn't exactly qualify as spying...
Also mine actually shows different text, guess they adjusted it for accuracy.
"This policy setting determines the amount of diagnostic and usage data reported to Microsoft. A value of 0 will send minimal data to Microsoft. This data includes Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) & Windows Defender data, if enabled, and telemetry client settings. Setting a value of 0 applies to enterprise, EDU, IoT and server devices only. Setting a value of 0 for other devices is equivalent to choosing a value of 1"
Enterprise here.
>>53323229
>forced updates
You can turn them off for Pro too if I recall it right.
>>53323109
Your guys' hentai and porn sites have way the fuck more "botnet" than windows will ever have. Everything and everyone is spying on you, it's the 21st century, deal with it. Everybody is okay with Facebook and shit collecting information on your ass but they freak out over windows when they do it...
>>53323238
so should I update from the pro version to the enterprise ?
>>53323238
>>Given how telemetry doesn't exactly qualify as spying...
Telemetry is spying. It's an inherent privacy violation.
Think about it. Even at a "basic", "no really it's just for security and compatibility, trust us :^)" level, they can tell when you use your computer, what apps you use and when, and tie it to your identity. You think they're just going to collect that to have it sit on some database server somewhere? They wouldn't be collecting it if they weren't going to monetize it. And that means either they want to play Google's Orwellian game, or they want to sell it on to someone who will.
Anyway, if they're doing nothing wrong, why don't they let you turn it off? Why do they code the telemetry subsystem to bypass the hosts file so you can't block the connections?
>>53323273
nahh I always torrent porn, mostly hentai, from private tracker. It is a local one and is based on healthy principles
>>53323284
>>53323238
Telemetry is an automated communications process by which measurements are made and other data collected at remote or inaccessible points and transmitted to receiving equipment for monitoring
>>53323273
>Your guys' hentai and porn sites have way the fuck more "botnet" than windows will ever have.
Fuck off. Websites are more like cameras on the street. Windows recording and sending what you do is on the level of cameras in your own fucking home.
No.
You'll be told that it collects a lot of data like typing, contacts, voice, etc. and that's true, but they're all optional and needed for certain features (mainly Cortana).
The exception for this is diagnostic and usage data, which still doesn't send super personal info. The apparent reason for this is when it was optional, all the power-users turned it off which led Microsoft to believe that no one was using the start menu, causing the disaster that was Windows 8.
You'll also get shit saying it's still on even when it's off, which is completely unsupported and basically just fear-mongering.
Enterprise can disable everything, so if you want to use Win 10 but not send anything, use that.
>>53323249
You recall wrong.
>>53323109
So w10:
1. Can sends all your data to MS an has a right to (license)
2. Has forced updates to system and drivers and basicaly can install whatever it wants to
3. Deletes and disables programs it did not like
4. Has ads (disablable by now)
5. Has incomprehensible mix of metro and regular items in start menu
What else can i say to guys who want to upgrade? (Its more then enough for me.)
>>53323273
>>Your guys' hentai and porn sites have way the fuck more "botnet" than windows will ever have.
>streaming your porn
>current year
in any case it's easier to mitigate on the open web. Don't install flash, use a cookie-deleting addon, an ad-blocker, and block any javascript you can. Optionally, use a VPN or Tor.
>Everything and everyone is spying on you, it's the 21st century, deal with it.
Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.
>Everybody is okay with Facebook and shit collecting information
No they aren't. Facebook just lost a court case in Europe over tracking people. India just put the kibosh on their free internet for the poor (if you let us keep you in a walled facebook garden) program.
And in all of these, it's different when the OS does it. A website shouldn't track you, but if it does, you can block things, or choose not to use it. But if your OS is working against you, you're a whole different level of screwed. The OS (And the browser for that matter) should be on my side and my side only, and under my complete control.
>>53323185
>there is no reasonable amount of spying except "none"
That's not the future, anon. Big Daddy Corporation wants to know everything about you. And unless you go live innawoods somewhere they are going to find out.
>>53323323
They don't want control over their computer
>>53323273
I am not anti Botnet 10 but Faceshit is the worst example. It's a site made for data collection. People installing Windows 10 expect an operation system not installing malware that needs dozens of tweaks to act normal.
>>53323278
Depending how much you care about telemetry.
>>53323284
>no really it's just for security and compatibility, trust us :^
This is a silly argument, if you don't trust them that basic means basic and that they only send irrelevant, anonymous data when you chose it, why would you trust that any of their options does anything? If you don't trust them, don't use Winshit at all.
>they can tell when you use your computer, what apps you use and when, and tie it to your identity.
When it's default, and I agree that default Windows without tons of tweaks from the users side pretty much is a botnet.
As for monetizing telemetry data ... maybe, it's really just to make the OS run better/adjust it to the way people use it? If it runs good, they have more satisfied customers, using their shit and spending money on more MS software or in Windows store.
>>53323313
>A value of 0 will send minimal data to Microsoft.
Doesn't sound like everything.
>>53323318
Obviously not in options but can't you disable the service?
>>53323368
AFAIK you can disable the Windows Update service but it will just start itself randomly and start updating
>>53323313
watch all the connections it makes to MS even though all the privacy settings are turned on. Oh sure, they say they stop logging every single keystroke when Cortana is off. Do you trust them? Why? They could be lying and you have no way of checking whether they are or not. Maybe you trust them now, but there's no way to take the data back if they later become untrustworthy. Even if they send "not so super personal info" only, remember that it's trivial to deanonymize people from those datasets.
In any case, it's not my problem that MS didn't get good data and made bad decisions in Win8 because of it. That's Microsoft's problem. My computer is mine, not theirs, and if I don't want it to send data to Microsoft, Microsoft has no right to countermand my decision.
>>53323185
>there is no reasonable amount of spying except "none"
>none
>in this day and age
You're being a bit naïve. I am assuming you are using spying to also mean telemetry. Microsoft doesn't care what you do personally or look into what you do personally... but Microsoft does probably care what thousands of users do on average.
We give data every time we practically use any of the major online services. Google's, Apple's, Microsoft's, etc. I just wonder why people are being pissy that Windows 10 takes in your anonymized data.
We've been giving our data voluntarily ever since about 2003 with the dawn of Gmail. Remember when people would have flipped shit if they learned their email service had bots reading through them... and then Google came along and said "yeah we du dat but u get a gig of email data nigguh" and then people were like "shit senpai sign my ass up, read through all my emails you wunt nigguh"
>>53323313
>The apparent reason for this is when it was optional, all the power-users turned it off which led Microsoft to believe that no one was using the start menu, causing the disaster that was Windows 8.
I'm certain you are pulling this out of your ass. If anything power users don't use the start menu.
>>53323401
>I just wonder why people are being pissy that Windows 10 takes in your anonymized data.
Because it is impossible to control what data your OS sends. It is not to control what data your browser sends. You can always just not enter data you don't want websites to have. Your OS is different. If you do anything with a file, your OS has access to it and pretty much all data MS could ever want about it
>>53323377
Holy shit, that's annoying. I only know that Defender works the same, luckily there are group policies.
>>53323396
http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-microsoft-is-not-spying-on-you-with-windows-10/
Uninformed shit like this only distracts from the very valid discussion about privacy.
>>53323142
Pajeet is trying to reason.
>>53323401
No idea about iOS and Apples services but OSX itself seems pretty sensible to users privacy without Spotlight suggestions.
>>53323313
due they have statistic on how many photos were viewed using their built in app
>>53323401
>I am assuming you are using spying to also mean telemetry.
you're correct.
>Microsoft doesn't care what you do personally or look into what you do personally
Maybe. We don't know. Maybe they will become interested, or sell/give the data to someone who is. Be that the NSA or an ad agency.
>We give data every time we practically use any of the major online services. Google's, Apple's, Microsoft's, etc. I just wonder why people are being pissy that Windows 10 takes in your anonymized data.
I can't speak for others but I'm pissy about those other services, too, Google especially. I left all their services as a result - I reflashed my phone to remove the Google apps, I closed my Gmail account, I don't use their search engine, and I block Google Analytics. In any case one reason to be especially pissy about Microsoft is what I mentioned in the other post - the operating system is at a higher level of trust.
>Remember when people would have flipped shit if they learned their email service had bots reading through them
They did, actually, when Gmail launched. Just because a lot of people got used to it, doesn't make it good.
>>53323441
>dude*
they also know when and where you use windows machines
>>53323368
>Doesn't sound like everything.
>The exception for this is diagnostic and usage data
>>53323396
>>53323425
And to add to that, http://www.zdnet.com/article/when-it-comes-to-windows-10-privacy-dont-trust-amateur-analysts/
>>53323441
Yeah, that's diagnostic and usage data.
>>53323447
>tfw having that picture on your HDD makes you enemy #1 in the eyes of anyone at a major corporation or gubment
>>53323447
>not using Google
Well, given how much you care about your privacy over comfort, Windows is clearly not the right OS for you.
>>53323420
It's impossible to control the data Windows 7 sends, Windows 8 sends, Windows XP sends, Windows Vista sends. Seriously, look into the data sent by a clean install by any other Windows install and you'll see a similar story with Windows 10 where all of the privacy settings have been disabled as much as they can. Just because Windows is phoning into Microsoft servers doesn't mean they're necessarily snooping through your shit, your OS has to get some rudimentary shit done when connected to the internet like check if your timezone is correct, check your clock is correct etc.
The exact same deals applies to Apple products and Android smartphones.
Windows 10 is only different in that it increased it's scope with a comprehensive 'telemetry' instead of basic.
>>53323436
Yeah, Cortana definitely requires more data than Spotlight. But Cortana and Spotlight are vastly different. Cortana is more comparable to Siri, which are very similar in the type of data they want.
>>53323447
Well, then. I respect you more because you're consistent. I just don't really get people who give all their data to Google, Microsoft etc and then get pissy about how Windows 10 runs.
>>53323401
>We give data every time we practically use any of the major online services. Google
yahh but we are talking about os privacy, the internet is a pubic space and surveillance cannot be avoided but it is just my business what I do on my machine when I don't surf the web
>The exact same deals applies to Apple products and Android smartphones.
No but see it's different because it's Microsoft and they aren't trying to hide it.
>>53323530
Windows never had shit like this in its EULAs before.
>>53323548
It's related to their cloud shit, which is given for EVERY cloud service.
Why don't you inform yourself before spewing memes?
>>53323574
Their Cloud shit shouldn't exist or it shouldn't be built into their OS.
>>53323548
I'm pretty sure that privacy statement is followed by "When a legal government request is filed" and something along the lines of "to protect Microsoft's and it's customer's general interest".
You shouldn't expect any vastly different EULA from any other cloud service.
>>53323548
Full context
>>53323425
The clause lists the conditions under which Microsoft "will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)..."
That narrow list of conditions includes legal demands, like search warrants and subpoenas and (presumably) National Security Letters, as well as actions necessary to "help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone" or to stop attacks on Microsoft's services.
> implying this system cannot be abused
cannot be
> + you cannot spy on a presumably honest man just because you have some clues that he might be a terrorist, you cannot accuse people of crimes they yet have to commit
>>53323583
I wouldn't say it shouldn't be built into their OS. It should be if you want to, and that's the case. You have the option to not use OneDrive and not integrate it with your Windows install.
>>53323589
And is this not including files on your PC? And how do we know it doesn't when it just says "PERSONAL DATA" without any kind of language that says what personal data they won't take?
>>53323583
I can agree with that, the way their force shit on the user is a completely different issue though.
>>53323593
Obviously it will be abused, hence nobody caring about privacy uses cloud shit. Good thing is, you don't have to use SkyDrive
Alright give me the nitty gritty, /g/, tell me when the greatest shitstorm of our age comes down. Tell me when Win32 support gets shifted to being Enterprise only. We know it is only a matter of time before MS liberates us from our beloved Win32 programs and forces us to use the WindowsStore programs only.
>>53323602
>>53323589
They can "have a good faith belief" whenever they want to. They can find themselves wrong later but its too late for you.
>>53323498
Even clueless normies should get privacy as the default option. Because privacy is like virginity - once it's gone, you can never get it back.
>>53323548
One of the above-linked ZDNet articles mentioned that and made the point that just about every service includes similar language. Which I would call even more frightening.
>>53323589
>1.) If law enforcement asks for it, they can have it
>2.) If it's related to security in any way, we have a blank check to do with it as we like
>3.) If we need it to operate our services, we can do whatever we want. We decide what services we operate and what is necessary to operate them.
>4.) We reserve the right to give personal data to anyone if we decide you're pirating something or an violation of any EULA term. We decide when we think that's happening.
They took the Swiss cheese and hit it with a shotgun, because there weren't enough holes in it.
>>53323625
And do they view it as necessary to collect the content of my documents to provide me with the Windows OS "service"? Is this why Windows is now a "service"?
>>53323636
The problem is, MS runs my OS and I have basically no choice in that matter. If I don't want cloudfags coming in and looking at my data all I have to do is not use cloud services. Easy. But when your OS company also is a cloud service data company, their EULAs and privacy statements get scary because you have no idea whether they apply to your OS or whether they only apply to if you're signed up for their cloud services and the language can be so general that they can basically do whatever they want and there's nothing I can do about it but not use the OS.
>>53323616
They're already doing that with >muh vidya gaems. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/04/microsoft-monopolise-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war
>With its new Universal Windows Platform (UWP) initiative, Microsoft has built a closed platform-within-a-platform into Windows 10, as the first apparent step towards locking down the consumer PC ecosystem and monopolising app distribution and commerce.
>>53323625
At least MS are open and honest about what they collect.
It takes several hours jumping around to get all the raw info from Google (that MS happily lays out for you), they even have to create glossaries for dubious shit they do, such as inserting hidden pixels in to your emails:
>Pixel tag
>A pixel tag is a type of technology placed on a website or within the body of an email for the purpose of tracking activity on websites, or when emails are opened or accessed, and is often used in combination with cookies
Of course everything google do is completely fine because tinfoil lincucks have the android cock up their ass and enjoy it too much.
>>53323636
Some of their options that affect the normies privacy can improve the overall experience for them though. Many people love search suggestions, targeted ads, recommendations and not having to worry about updates and security.
I'd say the only problem with MS's approach is how tedious they make it to turn it all off.
>>53323109
Do we know for sure it's a botnet? no. But everything points to that. Two years ago we kinda joked about the NSA infecting everyone's phone, then we found it Candy Crush literally has spyware on it.
Reality is even more fucked up.
>>53323680
The thing is, that doesn't lock out Win32. I can still use my Win32 programs. I don't give a fuck if I can't play Scalebound since it's just some dudebro shlock. But if they cut off Win32 support, I am totally fucked and so is pretty much everyone else but normies who get their "apps" from the "WindowsStore"
>>53323648
>>53323677
This are actually good points and the future is much worrisome than muh telemetry.
>>53323684
Google spying is more accepted because the users get great returns back. Shit like Photos is a privacy nightmare but nigguh, UNLIMITED STORAGE FOR VIDEOS AND PHOTOS. Shit like their search is market leader for a reason. Google Maps or Earth are great apps and most people use gmail as main email for a reason.
MS didn't improve noticeable since 7 but demands more from their users.
Please spread this hashtag on twitter, /g/.
#FuckOffMicrosoft
>>53323727
>Google spying is more accepted because the users get great returns back.
I use Windows and get great returns back from using it as my OS of choice.
>Shit like Photos is a privacy nightmare but nigguh, UNLIMITED STORAGE FOR VIDEOS AND PHOTOS.
Stopped reading here. Google (and others like Facebook) use the image processing software developed by Microsoft for detecting various types of images (specifically child abuse).
Unlimited storage having your files accessed by the Microsoft software you hate so much is fine because it's unlimited with google but bad when MS do it because they don't give you unlimited? This is complete hypocrisy.
You're giving completely nosensical excuses for google doing what they do which is generally far wider and much more abusive tha windows.
>>53323771
> fine because it's unlimited with google but bad when MS do it because they don't give you unlimited?
I am another anon, if it helps and yes, obviously. It's always a questions between benefits and downsides. If Google gives me a free flagship phone that is spied on 24/7, I'd take it. If MS wants money for the same phone from me, they can fuck themselves.
Though obviously it's easy to compare services that are basically the same and clearly better from one side.
>>53323771
>I use Windows and get great returns back
No you don't, you idort.
>>53323473
>http://www.zdnet.com/article/when-it-comes-to-windows-10-privacy-dont-trust-amateur-analysts/
TINFOILERS ABSOLUTELY FUCKING BTFO
i don't get it why you want windows users to use linux?
>>53323995
Indeed... All I use my PC for is Gaming and YouTube... It's nice that Linux is supporting more games now but it's not there yet.
slightly related, is the led on laptop's cameras physically connected to the camera itself so that it lights when the camera turns on so I can detect malicious use ?
>>53323879
>Trust this corporate site with pro-MS propaganda all over it, not other users like you
Okay.
>>53324704
>If I call it propaganda it will stop being true
i don't even give a shit about the spying, but forced updates are a huge turn-off. i'm never going to install 10.
>>53324737
Capitalism is demonic but Pravda saying it didn't mean it wasn't propaganda
>>53324761
>propaganda
>information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view
If anything, the original post was propaganda because it was misleading as fuck.
>>53324813
Yesy, you ahrre korrekct, komrade. Spying is not unethikal. De govarments off ze wahrld do it evehry day. Leht Vindows spy on you for MOTHER RAHSSHA!
>>53324846
no
and zees is not ze beginnink of a beautiful friendship
>>53324846
>if i shitpost maybe he'll stop being right
>>53324874
I don't see how he's right. Telemetry is spying and spying is unethical. The OP post is fine.
>>53324950
>Telemetry is spying
Debatable but that's not what the argument was about. It was about him writing off ZDnet's article for apparently being propaganda.
>>53324968
Was referring to "the original post was propaganda because it was misleading as fuck."
>>53324997
The original post as in the post Voat post that the ZDNet article is talking about.
Should've made that more clear.
>>53323396
This video is confirmed to have been done on one of the Insider preview builds of Windows 10. In the TOS for those, it literally says that Microsoft will record everything so they can fix problems like, gee, I don't fucking know, getting a blue screen from pressing certain keys at the same time or opening X program.
Fuck off and replicate it on one of the current/full versions of Windows 10. Until then, your claims of a botnet are baseless.
>>53324051
This is what I'm in right now. I built my desktop to be a gaming machine, and there are a couple games for the xbone that I was looking at, but not enough to justify buying a bone. With those games coming to windows 10, it's not a bad tradeoff for my.
I need to upgrade my graphics card and processor soon, so I was going to either buy a laptop or build a compact desktop for everything else that I need to do, keep the systems segregated, then upgrade my gaming rig to win10. It seems to be the best option that I have to get the gaming support and privacy, albeit a bit of a pricier one.
>being so retarded you are unable to disable the windows update service
Back to minecraft, kids
>>53327707
People have tried that, smartypants. It is reenabled by the os itself after awhile
Just install Windows 8.1 my faggot son.
