Why is it so hard to implement binaural audio in game engines?
>>53308081
More importantly why is it so hard to implement vertical positioning?
because most people don't use headphones for gaming and justifying it is annoying
>>53308213
>most people don't use headphones for gaming
[citation needed]
remember me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A3D
>>53308276
Why does Creative aquires technology and never does anything with it again?
>>53308291
Because they lack creativity.
>>53308291
Because creative isn't a force in the industry anymore. They had strength in the 90s, but their market share is probably mostly taken by realtek/onboard sound now.
>>53308081
It really isn't.
>>53308291
because that would require writing drivers for it and they are worse than shit with drivers
your position vs where the sound is has to be processed in real time
>>53308206
>vertical positioning
That part is very dependent on individual physiology. Unfortunately, the ears are unique enough that one head model does not generalize very well to all possible listeners.
Because simulating sound with such detail is expensive. Not to mention that you need to design a whole lot of crap about every 3m map and every sound.
>>53309314
as if there's a lack of visual detail going into games
why can't we at least have 3d positional audio (y'know, like we had /nearly 2 decades ago/)
for whatever reason innovation in audio had stagnated terribly since then, in general, really
>>53309314
HRTF is not expensive by any means and you don't have to design anything in the game other than the sound engine to support it.
>>53308081
If by binaural you mean "3D sound" for headphones, then it's nothing new. Several games have been using hrtf for more than a decade now.
>>53309919
Why the fuck did OpenAL stopped being a thing?
I know it's creative and all, but why was such a technology been left to die? I also know there are several more recent versions of it (unofficial) tampered by other people but asides of that, why was it laid to waste?
>>53308312
>>53309910
>why can't we at least have 3d positional audio (y'know, like we had /nearly 2 decades ago/)
New games don't? I really haven't played any new games in several years, but I remember playing an online FPS when I was younger that people would get butthurt over others using headphones in because the positional audio (which wasn't stopped by walls) combined with knowledge of the maps was enough to be comparable to having a map that showed everyone's position.
>>53310822
proper 3d audio should take walls into account (reflections/dampening)
>>53310822
The first game i played competitively was moh:aa, there was a command something like r_scinematic that enabled hrtf with proper reflection and occlusion, was considered the same as a hack (only by crybabies) due to the pinpoint accuracy you could have of the players.
Hell on one map which was on a hotel with several floors, by the sound of the weapons I could tell if it was a teammate shooting or enemy and even spot if the person was above or below my floor.
Shit was ridiculous.
>>53308081
It's pretty difficult actually. Problems:
>Every head is different, so every HRTF (the function that transforms the source signal to the sound right at your ears) is different as well.
>More importantly, every room is different. You can't just give the ears anechoic HRTFs and pretend like you don't sit in the room right now. Your brain is simply not buying it.
>Also, if you really wanted to simulate the virtual room, you'd have to recalculate the HRTFs at every position. That is simply impossible, computationally.
You can of course record your individual HRTF using speakers and a microphone (it's pretty easy to do actually, even with very minimal equipment), but that won't give you full 3d sound. But it's pretty fun to see how easily the ears are tricked nonetheless.
>>53308081
They have been doing this for years
>>53310869
they do this, a great example is gta 4
>>53311365
But it's not particularly convincing, which is probably why it's not very popular.
>>53308312
lmao'd my ass anon
>>53311144
>>More importantly, every room is different. You can't just give the ears anechoic HRTFs and pretend like you don't sit in the room right now. Your brain is simply not buying it.
Would HMDs solve this?
>>53308081
because most "binaural audio" isn't even done right? At least most of what I've heard from those "binaural beats" bs.
If they can do it right, that'd be cool. But the payoff would only be seen if you're wearing decent headphones.
I really don't see it working with regular TV speakers or a surround sound system...
>>53311481
Probably, yes. The problem is just shifted though. You'd still need a realistic response in the virtual room, including reflections etc. You need to recalculate the response depending on it's position in the virtual room, constantly. That is computationally impossible, at least for the next decades.
On the other hand, a pre-recorded movie with binaural sound would be pretty amazing with a HMD and headphones.
>>53311860
Binaural beats have nothing to do with this. It's something entirely different.
Also, binaural audio basically means that you are feeding your ears with information instead of putting them in a room and hoping for the best. It's basically the equivalent of HMD.
>>53311916
Isn't it when each instrument has a different frequency on each side? Like if something is played on guitar, the left channel would be standard G, but the right channel would be slightly de-tuned?
I don't know any legitimate audio terms since I just fuck around with it, but that's what I started to do to give the illusion of more "space" when I do music.
>>53311942
lol no
binaural recordings is something like this
https://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA
ASMR/binaural fags are pure, unadulterated cancer
>>53308312
Kek'd and saved
>>53312178
ASMR ≠ Binaural
Binaural is much more than that.
>>53312214
>ASMR ≠ Binaural
>The ASMR internet community is another movement of late which has widely employed binaural recordings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
could you provide YOUR definition of ASMR and binaural please
>Talking about binaural audio without proper examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJRmaoLM5c
>>53308276
>>53308291
FUCK CREATIVE. A3D still is the supreme 3D audio technology. Creative bought it and killed it to force their stupid gay ass fuck shit EAX.
FUCK CREATIVE.
>>53312244
You figured it out already. ASMR uses binaural recordings for whatever they are trying to achieve. Binaural recordings can be much more than that. It's a mystery to me why it's not used much more frequently, especially considering how many people listen to their music exclusively via headphones.
>>53312244
ASMR = sounds people like to listen to because it triggers them in all the right ways
Binaural recording = Recording made using two microphones, on either side of a dummy head
What is the point of binaural audio when you have to play in each ear at different times to get proper 3d positioning?
>>53312288
Those ASMR videos may be binaural but they really just can't show what binaural recordings are capable of, or just do so in very gimmicky ways that get boring extremely quickly. Music is much more enjoyable, like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itLxXeyM2aM .
May not be everyone's taste musically, but it sounds fucking great. It's sad that it's not used more often in music.
>>53312509
I don't really understand the question honestly.
>>53312307
>creative forces Aureal into bankruptcy because lol sue everything
>get patents
>don't support them even though they're superior technology
What a fucking joke.
>>53312546
3 positioning involves playing the same sound at different times in each ear for headphones, and the delay is affected by the direction it originates. What is the point of binaural audio when you want only 1 single audio channel?
What did Thief use? I always thought it was pretty effective.
>>53312609
>1 single audio channel
that would be mono.
>>53311144
It's not much of a trick if the stimulus is identical.
Measuring HRTFs with speakers is so 20th century. You can use cameras or 3D scanners to image the shape of the head, and compute the wave effects over the surface. All possible source directions can be modeled from that.
As for the complexity of source synthesis, I don't know. Methods of simulation would be tied closely to graphic render methods, a limited form of ray tracing as an example. I wouldn't know anything further than that.
>>53311942
Binaural is the sound experience of the two ears, but usually used to refer to the simulation and generation of a sound in a given space.
>>53312609
If I read this right and you want mono sound, you wouldn't get positional audio that way.
>>53312715
Isn't that contagious?
aphex twin embeded the dudes face into soundwaves over a decade ago but muh flac is a meme brigade can't into binaural, top kek.
constructive and destructive harmonics, + polyrhythms. should be all you need with two speakers. and game engines can do that.
>>53312731
>Measuring HRTFs with speakers is so 20th century. You can use cameras or 3D scanners to image the shape of the head, and compute the wave effects over the surface. All possible source directions can be modeled from that.
Yes, theoretically you could do that. But you also need the inside of the head (the sound also travels through the head). So what you'd need is more something like an MRT. You could of course estimate what the insides look like, but I don't know how that would alter the results, you'd need to test that.
>As for the complexity of source synthesis, I don't know. Methods of simulation would be tied closely to graphic render methods, a limited form of ray tracing as an example. I wouldn't know anything further than that.
Ray tracing is loosely related to it, but not really. You actually need to numerically solve the wave equation, which is pretty tough, even for the short response time. It's basically impossible at this time, maybe in 50 years or so, things will look different. Maybe someone comes up with a really smart algorithm soon, I don't know. Atm nothing close is possible.
>>53312795
>constructive and destructive harmonics, + polyrhythms. should be all you need with two speakers. and game engines can do that.
Nice science right there. You got that from CSI Miami?
>>53308276
I rarely use headphones for gaming, any headphone, earbud, pretty much any audio device you wear hurts my ears after a 30 minutes
>>53312907
As far as the interior is concerned, it isn't much of a factor besides ear canals. Pretty much all other major effects are outer geometry.
>numerical solutions of the 3D acoustic wave equation
For the room in general, they usually just approximate based on geometry and angle of incidence rather than a wave simulation. I could be forgetting what I read(skimmed) though reports, but solutions to the wave equation usually aren't invoked specifically besides the HRTF generation.
>>53312932
you guys are talking about binaural beats and ASMR yet question me about the science behind synthesis?
carry on, i'll happily listen to your ingame track in 20 years when you figure out what vibrations are.
>>53313138
>As far as the interior is concerned, it isn't much of a factor besides ear canals.
Nope, that's wrong.
>For the room in general, they usually just approximate based on geometry and angle of incidence rather than a wave simulation. I could be forgetting what I read(skimmed) though reports, but solutions to the wave equation usually aren't invoked specifically besides the HRTF generation.
You can do that, but the results are not particularly good. Source: I worked on exactly that for a few years and it was frustrating as hell.
>>53313230
>I worked on exactly that for a few years and it was frustrating as hell.
Do tell.
>>53308081
Probably processing power
AMD was working on stuff for better audio in games, but I don't think it ever went anywhere
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/trueaudio
>>53312715
Real life is mono. There is a point of origin for the sound generated.
last one
>>53308081
>>53308206
>>53308291
>>53308276
>>53308386
>>53309910
>>53311144
>>53310869
>>53311916
>>53314398
>>53314418
normal service is resumed
