It's obvious that their goal doesn't have to do with that particular phone. Given the importance of that case, they could easily afford to desolder the flash chips, download their contents to a computer, and run a dictionary attack instead of punching in passwords on the phone by hand like a kid who thinks he's a hacker and wants more than 10 tries. So what are they really trying to do?
>>53041157
Tampering with the device will erase it
>>53041171
...um, no.
>>53041157
They are lazy fucks and they just using this case as an excuse to add a backdoor botnet to spy on all iphone users. This is not about the san bernadino sand niggers, this is about pushing forward the agenda that they NEED to have easy convenient ways to spy on all americans. There's no vital info in that phone. If the sand nigger:
- made calls: data is avail from phone service provided
- sent sms txt msgs: data is avail from phone service providers
- sent emails: those are stored with the email service
- used facebook, twitter, etc etc: that data is available too
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what could possibly be on that iphone that wouldn't be available anywhere else.
>>53041157
>>53041171
basically this. It's pretty much prevents brute force attacks which is what the authorities are trying to implement.
So their asking Apple to give them a brute force back door which is retarded.
They want to set a legal precedent which allows them to issue orders which force companies to break the security of their products.
Their end goal is to have cheap, easy access to whatever data they want/need for their investigations.
>>53041290
>It's pretty much prevents brute force attacks
Only if the brute force attack is done by manually punching in passwords on the phone. The FBI could easily dump the data on the flash chips, analyze it on a computer, and try orders of magnitude more passwords in the same amount of time without issue.
>>53041289
They might want notes, pictures and videos which he hadn't transmitted to anyone.
Really though, they want that sweet legal precedent, so they can launch their war on cryptography and security in consumer products. Comey (the current director of the FBI) is a noted anti-privacy, anti-cryptography statist who styles himself as a civil rights activist.
>>53041369
>dump the data on the flash chips, analyze it on a computer, and try orders of magnitude more passwords in the same amount of time without issue
Watch out, NCIS coming through
>>53041157
To prolong their existence. Crypto will end big govt so they have to fight it.
>>53041171
lol
>>53041289
This, or >>53041369
"Erase after 10 tries" is a software feature, not some kind of encryption algorithm feature.
>>53041452
It's not that hard anon. Even I could do it with like $1k worth of equipment and a few weeks time.
>>53041369
Enjoy trying to brute force 256-bit AES.
>>53041481
It's a 4 pin passcode, you fucking retard. Done in under a second.
>>53041231
>>53041290
>>53041369
You fundamentally misunderstand the architecture of the system and how the cryptography works.
If the FBI tried to brute force it, they would not be guessing a 4 digit passcode. The keyspace for that is 10^4 and they can brute force that shit in milliseconds.
They would be bruteforcing a 256 bit key, with a keyspace of 2^256. Takes thousands of years.
If you guess the PIN wrong, it doesn't wipe the data. It just erases the 256 bit key. This effectively renders the data gone forever.
>>53041481
It more than likely wouldn't be to hard in this case, as most people aren't going to use a very long and complex password for their phone. AES is only incredibly secure if you actually use decent passwords, which most people don't.
>>53041499
>I can't be arsed to learn the slightest thing about what I'm posting about
>but I'll act like I'm an authority figure and call people retards when they actually know
You'll abruptly stop posting in this thread at some point when you realize what a fucktard you are anon
>>53041499
It's a hardware encrypted bootloader, you wouldn't be able to circumvent the 10 wrong tries regardless of it being software.
>>53041528
>the AES key is a hash of their 4 digit pin
No it's not you fucking idiot. Why don't you bother doing some research before you make an idiot of yourself?
>>53041526
I think you're the one misunderstanding it. When you have the data backed up to a computer you don't have to give a shit about it erasing anything because you have it backed up.
>>53041540
>>53041541
>mactard thinks he knows what he's talking about by spouting random technical terms to appear smart
Get the fuck out of /g/ you fucking retards. Kill yourselves.
They already have all the data, they just want to have an even easier time in the future than having to log into iCloud botnet with their FBI account.
>>53041573
Here's your reply
>>53041569
It won't erase the data. I actually said this at the bottom of the post you quoted and didn't read so let me quote it for you:
>If you guess the PIN wrong, it doesn't wipe the data. It just erases the 256 bit key. This effectively renders the data gone forever.
I agree with you, they can attempt to guess the 256 bit key as many times as they want without fear of erasing the data. I 100% agree with this assertion.
>>53041587
don't bother they can't understand this stuff
my hope is that they are underage and will someday learn. my fear is that they're CS grads who squeaked by and are now in charge of making software I might encounter.
>>53041289
if apple really cared about security they would let people spoof esn.
>>53041587
>>53041610
samefag detected. Nobody cares about your retarded macfag opinions.
>>53041583
/thread
>>53041583
In this particular case iCloud was disabled, so no, they don't.
>>53041620
0 for 2, not doing too well there buddy
>>53041157
>So what's the FBI's end goal with the Apple situation?
They want it for free instead of having to pay for it.
>>53041635
/thread
>>53041620
>macfag
You straight up are suggesting that anybody with a python shell could brute force iphones in seconds you absolute fucking child.
>>53041635
this desu senpai
>>53041587
...so what exactly is stopping the FBI from backing up the data so it isn't erased? Even if they can't download the shit directly, chip decaping is a thing and is completely within their budget.
>>53041657
That's literally how it works, you fucking retard.
>>53041157
>So what's the FBI's end goal with the Apple situation?
The same as it always has been for the last decade, except now they play puppet in Apple's sideshow while cuckstomers think they're secure.
>>53041662
The contents of the device are encrypted unless unlocked using the passcode. Doesn't matter if they get access to the disk if the contents are unreadable. Hence why they're asking Apple to bypass the incorrect passcode entry limit of 10
>>53041700
>apple.com
>posting from a fagbook and leaking all your data to russian and chinese hackers through your rootpipe that apple still hasn't fixed since 2011
>>53041700
The 10 incorrect limit is implemented in software and only activates via the on-device passcode screen. Nothing is stopping them to decap the chip, read the key then bruteforce the puny 4 digit number pin. This is the 5c remember, which doesn't have the secure enclave that restricts incorrect pin re-entry via hardware.
>>53041679
Friend if you can brute force an iphone you are a millionaire, what the fuck are you doing arguing with me?
Seriously you can find out how dumb you are with just a cursory google search. you bumped a legitimate thread off with this stupidity.
>>53041732
>Nothing is stopping them to decap the chip
I'm sure there must be something else stopping them, otherwise the whole legal mechanism they're using to compel Apple to help seems rather unnecessary
>>53041732
>>53041732
its trivial to guard against the attack you are suggesting. The chip should lose its data if decapped. I havent read the specs but this is full disk encryption 101
>>53041763
The outrage is nothing more than a publicity stunt on Apple's behalf. It's actually more dangerous because they are still handing over data to the authorities in private while customers and low IQ potential customers are tricked into believing that Apple gives a fuck about your privacy.
>>53041689
>tim crook
>>53041763
>otherwise the whole legal mechanism they're using to compel Apple to help seems rather unnecessary
Unless compelling Apple to help them break into this particular phone isn't the FBI's goal in this case.
>>53041787
this
desu
senpai
>>53041787
They're handing over data stored on their web services. This is completely different - breaking the security mechanisms built into their physical devices. It's speculated that making full disk encryption default was intended specifically to stymy surveillance.
>>53041806
They already complied with 51 physical retrieval requests over the last few years. Why are they only objecting now?
>>53041787
>trusting Apple to not make the pin code brute forceable
>trusting a passphrase to not be bruteforced
>not memorizing 256 bit keys in your subconscious and entering it into your device in a trance
SHIGGY DIGGITY DO
>>53041823
Possibly because those requests were against less secure hardware, and they've decided they'd prefer not to break open their more recent hardware also
>>53041732
Looks like the disk is pretty tightly locked down. Seems like Apple already anticipated this and thwarted it in advance
>>53041526
But the key must've been derived from the 4 digit pin, no? Are you implying appul keeps their key derivation function secret from the FBI?
>>53041722
>leaking data
>local exploit
You'd have to have physical access to an un-encrypted OS X machine to exploit it.
It's a well-accepted fact that once an an attacker has physical access to a target machine all bets are off no matter what OS it's running.
>still hasn't fixed
Fixed in 10.10.4
CIA NIGGERS! FUCK YOU FUCKING ALIENS I GONANKILL YOU ON 9/9/99
>>53041587
What's your point? We're not trying to boot the phone, we're trying to decrypt the data. Your image only talks about the boot process.
>>53041848
The picture you posted all refers to the Secure Enclave, which the 5c lacks.
>>53041872
That image was in response to this exchange
>It's a hardware encrypted bootloader
>mactard thinks he knows what he's talking about by spouting random technical terms to appear smart
>>53041884
But it's not encrypted. It's signed by the appul CA, and Apple, as a US corp, was probably already coerced into handing over their private keys to all the three letter agencies. How else do you think TAO inserts rootkits into iphones?
>>53041352
This is correct. The FBI want precedent that the All Writs Act allows them to order companies to backdoor their software to let the FBI do basically whatever they want to. That's why Apple, Microsoft, Google and Facebook/WhatsApp are putting their foot down: Comey has gone one step too far, well beyond where the NSA and the White House are on their side. This is transparently a deliberate, very political move.
It may have huge implications across the pond here, with Theresa "I-i-it's not that I want a backdoor, I just want to read everything while I block all porn" May, and internationally with China and Russia.
This is the biggest deal in tech law in this generation.
>>53041777
>its trivial to guard against the attack you are suggesting. The chip should lose its data if decapped. I havent read the specs but this is full disk encryption 101
Isn't this the sort of protection they put on military grade hardware to prevent reverse engineering say of an unexploded cruise missile's electronics? And not necessarily just decap based erasure but time delayed chip self destructs and what not.
But an iphone is not going to be designed like that, I'm sure intel agencies have passive or semi passive sensors which can do something similar to an MRI that allows them to clone every single chip in an electronic board and reconstruct it in some virtual machine which they can then bruteforce if they do not have they private keys already.
>>53041787
How about this, remove all storage from the device and copy all memory addresses. Analyze encrypted data for patterns, attempt to find location of key through brute force and patterns in encryption.
sorry if was under a rock (an oculus rift actually) and i just saw threads and threads about apple the fbi and shit im gonna google that san bernardino, wich is the part i dont get, but, its known how far this relationship goes.
The FBI should have the right to decrypt anything at anytime. They don't care about your degenerate anime, they want to stop bad guys, not some degenerate NEET faggot.
if the key gets deleted after 10 tries, couldn't fibi desolder/analyse the chips to back all the data up and then just pay a free citizen of the united states of america the $2.46/hr minimum wage to punch in 10000 codes while reflashing the data back every time it's wiped? it's obviously writable or they couldn't delete it.
if the fbi can't even do this then why are you nerds so scared of them
>>53044642
The FBI want to make it so ANYONE can decrypt any iPhone.
>>53044797
see
>>53041700
Bruteforcing is infeasible.
>>53041499
>It's a 4 pin passcode, you fucking retard.
How do you know their device is using a passcode, retard?
Do some of you fucking idiots know you don't have to use a 4 digit passcode? You simply turn off "Simple Passcode", there is a slide option for that, and turn it into a password. You can use a password with over 90 characters if you want to.
>>53041777
>>53042226
It's possible to get around such protections:
https://gcn.com/Articles/2010/02/02/Black-Hat-chip-crack-020210.aspx
ITT: /g/ proves its incompetence
If you have something to hide you should just turn yourself in now. Me? I'm squeaky clean.
>>53041689
>70 times since 2008
>almost 9 phones a year
In contrast to the future that the FBI wants
>get arrested for public intoxication
>phone gets decrypted without your consent
>applying for a job
>have to consent to a background check
>background check includes decryption and scanning of your phone
I don't even do anything that breaks the law and I'm a bit worried about the path this will bring us down. Of course this is the penalty that we Americans have to face for using government guided communications, regulated water, gas, electricity, roads and air. It was only a matter of time until they deemed that people who used governments resources were property of the government.
A tip to everyone: if you want to keep something secret don't write it down, tell anyone else or otherwise voice it outside of your own skull. That should at least keep you safe until the government-mandated neural botnet is implemented.
A sad point about all of this too is that my favorite candidate, Trump, has taken such an uninformed stance on this. Would he not like his personal life scrutinized so as to protect the dignity of the many women he fucked (he has stated this exact situation before and why he keeps quiet)?
>>53050350
>ishills literally have to make up bullshit to defend their shitstain megacorp while getting cucked by them up their ass all day every day
>>53050398
>precedent
>neckbeards being worth anything
>Govt even wanting to force themselves into neckbeards' phones
>>53042319
>why not use magic ?
>>53050471
>>precedent
>>53041689
>>53041289
>txt msgs: data is avail from phone service providers
>- sent emails: those are stored with the email service
>- used facebook, twitter, etc etc: that data is available too
Underrated post
can US govt. have some means to read bits of data off transistors in iphone's flash memory?
they can simulate the circuitry and bits in all memory location, then brute force without fear of erasing the combination of data, ya?
>>53053745
The point is they want easy access.
The US gets dozens of terrorist threats a day, 99% of them are fake and they have to filter through them quickly. Even then they'll miss shit and something happens that they can't prevent.
They don't have the time to devote an entire engineering team for cracking open every individual technobauble they come across.
